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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2015 17:43:52 GMT -6
the red has single converters , teh white double and I think the white has a better micro clock circuit ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2015 18:03:24 GMT -6
thx guys !
all sound good but there are some definite differences, sound stage, depth, dimension, bottom, sheen as you said.
as only the apolo has ad and da, where did the ad for the b2 and teh svartecus rex go to print to : back through the apolla DA?
does any one recall what the transformer input setings were on the b2 -16 dbf ?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 9, 2015 18:05:27 GMT -6
Burl and Svartbox both SPDIF into Apollo so they missed the Apollo converters.
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Post by LesC on Feb 9, 2015 18:11:45 GMT -6
This is great news!
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2015 18:13:55 GMT -6
thx : missed the apollo AD but everything out the apollo DA to print ? just curious cus although its a controlled test if so that may be doing the b2 and the svart a disservice in that they both have even more resolution than we will hear through the apollo's da don't mean to sound like a jerk please remember I had the apollo, dbox, 2192 and b2 here at the same time and bla micro clock mkii so really spent a long time listening to all these combinations pretty certain you switched up the order between the two samples  |
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 9, 2015 18:25:58 GMT -6
Interesting, I just got home from work and listened to the samples, my guess on the vox sample is.. Apollo is A, Svartacus is B, and Burl is C. I want to say C is the burl because it seems a bit louder to me, but i also believe i hear whoomf in the 300hz range on C which makes me want to say it's the apollo as it's hard to believe the burl would have that? but then i don't know either of these units so i'm totally guessing? B is the one i'd choose as of this listen.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2015 18:31:10 GMT -6
interesting; listen to the timbre with the second clip, the transients and the dimension, there is a neat tail about 1/3rd though, in two clips the dimensionally is much more apparent in a third not so much |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 9, 2015 18:32:57 GMT -6
Maybe I'm confused - and I very well may be...but the Apollo DA has nothing to do with the tracking of these files, right? We are hearing the A to D conversion of each box - and you're hearing the result passed through your personal DA. When the signal comes into the DAW via SPDIF and is printed, it is bypassing the Apollo AD. Only when I went into the Apollo line input from the Helios did the Apollo AD come into play.
I'm listening with the RM 1794 DAC.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 9, 2015 18:36:08 GMT -6
Ruh roh...come to think of it...I might have screwed up and left the Apollo clocked to the Burl when it was recording...So...you're probably getting a better version of the Apollo than you normally would. media0.giphy.com/media/GDnomdqpSHlIs/giphy.gif |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2015 18:39:55 GMT -6
well i wasn't there so that is what I am wondering I get the AD part !! so all files were the wav file uploaded to soundcloud ?
no probs its easy to do;forget that the apollo is slaved, but I think the differences are still quite apparent.
thx for doing this and it will be cool to hear the DA at some point too as many feel that is the apollo's achilles tendon
I think svart's box is coming together very well and will certainly compliment the apollo and ua plugs very nicely; good job !!
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 9, 2015 18:43:17 GMT -6
I think kcat made an assumption that you were summing analog? these types of tests are hard when they are out of your control, you don't know what the instruments sound like in the room all the way through, it's basically a shot in the dark, that said, on the vox, i like B. Is anyone else going to guess? come on, don't be fraidy cats!  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2015 18:45:07 GMT -6
I agree with you on the first; vox !
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 9, 2015 19:11:02 GMT -6
Wait to do the reveal. I want to listen. I'll take a peek shortly...was busy shoveling again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 19:14:39 GMT -6
Ruh roh...come to think of it...I might have screwed up and left the Apollo clocked to the Burl when it was recording...So...you're probably getting a better version of the Apollo than you normally would. That's a relief, every external clock we've tested with audio interfaces made things worse.. Well statistically speaking (specifications).. P.S where's the files for the A/B test? I want to have a listen . |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 9, 2015 19:52:26 GMT -6
Johnkenn, there isn't a download for these right? Just the Soundcloud? I thought A sounded harsh in the upper mids, B felt the smoothest, C felt scooped in the mids with a bit fatter bottom and and sheen on top. From the descriptions you guys gave, I would guess A-Apollo, B-RGO Speedwagon, C-Burl, but I've never touched any of those 3 units.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 9, 2015 20:03:23 GMT -6
Just soundcloud.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 9, 2015 21:49:15 GMT -6
I don't see an A,B, C anywhere, just two Soundcloud svartacus files on pg 1.
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 10, 2015 0:22:37 GMT -6
I don't see an A,B, C anywhere, just two Soundcloud svartacus files on pg 1. MJB the ABC is one after the next in succession for each soundcloud post, 1.vox, 2.reso |
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Post by formatcyes on Feb 10, 2015 1:44:48 GMT -6
My Guess is A is svarts, B Burl, C the apollo. B sounds a little like it has a compressor on it. A I think sounds the cleanest. C just a tad wooly.
On the guitar I assume its the same order I am having trouble playing the guitar track multiple times keeps freezing (weird the vocals work fine).
Anyways thank you guys for doing this test.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 10, 2015 8:50:46 GMT -6
Thanks Tony, will have a listen a bit later today,
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Post by matt on Feb 10, 2015 8:52:56 GMT -6
I hate hate hate blind shootouts. They remind me that I have ears made of a tin-like substance. So, I clench a bit, turn away from the Ouija board and Magic 8-Ball, and go with:
A is for Apollo
B is for Burl
C is for . . . CSvartacus
If anything, the minor differences in these files shows me that I obsess too much on things like A/D/A. Come to think of it, I obsess on a lot of things. But it's a subject for another thread, methinks.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 10, 2015 9:24:45 GMT -6
I also think A is Apollo, (the voice seems slightly receded to me), B, Spartacus, cleaner , more resolution, well balanced, C, Burl, colored. But, I must say, I like that color, and if you offered me all three, I'd probably go for C, despite my brain saying B is more real.
I really appreciate that Svart is doing this, and most likely will end up getting one if I can afford to.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 10, 2015 9:40:42 GMT -6
I liked C on the dobro and B on the vocal. Don't have a clue which is which.
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Post by svart on Feb 10, 2015 9:58:29 GMT -6
Heya john, do you think we could also get the acoustic guitar tracks up too? Personally, I thought the acoustic tracks were the most telling between the converters. The vocals were next and then the resonator tracks were a big toss up and based mostly on personal preference. I actually preferred the bottom end that the burl put on the resonator more than the others, but my converter had more clarity on the top. However we're talking like minuscule difference here and it took a lot of back and forth to pick out the differences. (even switching to Cubase from PT for a bit better playback fidelity..) I think as a design goal, it was always to hang with converters like the Burl and others. Once you get to that kind of level it's just a matter of producer/engineer taste that picks which converter gets used. As Randge said, if you can't make a record with any of these, something is seriously wrong. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2015 10:14:13 GMT -6
Fair comment Svart
and lets recall that the stock apollo (with on board dsp and AD DA) is around 2100-2400, the burl b2 is $25-3200 (just AD no dsp) and your box is around $800 AD and DA).
I have the apollo and really value its workflow but have always wanted the more linear sound. Your box will really compliment the apollo.
But I agree that these are all completely usable and I like different things about the burl and your box.
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