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Post by wiz on Feb 4, 2015 18:04:00 GMT -6
This Mix is as recorded
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user550433336/grace-motu-16a
This Mix has OTB EQ and COMP.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user550433336/grace-motu-16a-outboard-eq-comp __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
My new Motu 16A arrived yesterday morning.
I spent the day putting it in, patch baying everthing in site..
I knew you guys would want to hear something.
Note, there is a click or two in the acoustic track.. not sure what that is. I do have the buffers set at 32 atm, thats probably it.. could have been a power thing too.. don't know yet.. will get to the bottom of it.
I have one routing thing thats doing my head in, but thats either a LOGIC foible, user dickheadedness, or a bug...
I will write a better post about it soon..I want to get back into it, I have a gig tonight and a early bump in for that so might be a day or two.
Suffice to say I did some testing on it (test tone type stuff) and I was pretty blown away..
It sounds really really good.. (doesn't everything when you first get it? 8) )
cheers
Wiz
Gear Used
Acoustic Taylor Mahogany Mini KM84 VP28
Vocal U87 1073DMP Sta Level (Drip)
Mix 1 (as tracked)
Reverb Valhalla Vintage (dark plate)
no eq nothing just level and pan
Mix 2 (OTB EQ and COMP)
This has Soundcraft Delta EQ on both Acoustic and Vox
The Acoustic has WA76 Compression
The Vocal has STA Level Compression
Both of those are POST EQ
So the tracks go out of Logic via the MOTU 16A into the Soundcraft Delta Line ins. The comps are inserted over the Delta Inserts. Then the Delta Direct Outs (post fader) are returned to the MOTU 16A.
Again I am still finding my way with the Delta EQ.
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 4, 2015 18:26:14 GMT -6
sounds good, not lacking bottom! let us know how it progresses
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Post by wiz on Feb 4, 2015 20:22:29 GMT -6
Thoughts so far.
(this is just after I posted Mix 2 in the first post of the thread)
The conversion is quite different from my RME UCX. I wasn't quite expecting that.
After a trip out and back in of its AD/DA i am not sure I could pick it. I could everytime on the RME, as it had a bit of roll off. The MOTU, I can't ... yet.
I found that I can control the MUTING of the Monitor outs with my iMac volume controls. This is great, cause I just cancelled and order I had made for a monitor controller... 8)
The RME UCX had a monitor controller and I use it all the time to mute the outputs. Believe it or not, this was one of the biggest issues I had deciding to make the change.
The MOTU is very detailed. Its dynamic range (again I wasn't expecting this) is huge. A couple of times, I thought outboard gear wasn't working, it was.. it was just quieter than I expected.
Now that might be also I have rewired and re run every cable in the studio.. 8) but I think its mostly the interface.
I am not a fan of the WEB based Software interface of the MOTU. That might change.. I control it from my iMac, my iPhone and my iPad... I don't know if I want to.
With the extremely low latency of the MOTU at 32 samples, and my modest track counts, I am hoping I can stay right away from the CUE software... and just monitor through Logic.... that remains to be seen. When I tracked vocals, I didn't have any latency issue running direct out of Logic, like I had before and had to do (near zero latent) monitoring from the RME .
Anyways, so far. ... I like it.
Its simplified the studio for me.. and I think barring catasrophic bugs.. think the RME will go on the market next week.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by stratboy on Feb 4, 2015 21:22:30 GMT -6
Hi, Wiz, Glad to hear about the MOTU. I am contemplating a 16A as an upgrade from my RME FF400. I have been waiting for someone on RGO to comment on one and am glad your first impression is favorable. Thanks for passing on the good news!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 21:39:32 GMT -6
I'd be interested to see how this stacks up against the Apollo, as I need more I/O now it's worth a consideration. I had another listen to Cowboy's stuff with the Apollo and I realised what I didn't like. It's not the Apollo because the backing (Bass / guitar etc.) sounds absolutely phenomenal, weighty / wide and great definition. Sorry Cowboy, I mean this with love. All along it was the vox that were irking me, mid forward and a little sharp.. Your recording sounds smooth as silk, it's impressive and I prefer it to the mixed one. Looks like MOTU have stepped up there game and a good option to consider. Great job .
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 4, 2015 22:14:48 GMT -6
Thoughts so far. (this is just after I posted Mix 2 in the first post of the thread) The conversion is quite different from my RME UCX. I wasn't quite expecting that. After a trip out and back in of its AD/DA i am not sure I could pick it. I could everytime on the RME, as it had a bit of roll off. The MOTU, I can't ... yet. I found that I can control the MUTING of the Monitor outs with my iMac volume controls. This is great, cause I just cancelled and order I had made for a monitor controller... 8) The RME UCX had a monitor controller and I use it all the time to mute the outputs. Believe it or not, this was one of the biggest issues I had deciding to make the change. The MOTU is very detailed. Its dynamic range (again I wasn't expecting this) is huge. A couple of times, I thought outboard gear wasn't working, it was.. it was just quieter than I expected. Now that might be also I have rewired and re run every cable in the studio.. 8) but I think its mostly the interface. I am not a fan of the WEB based Software interface of the MOTU. That might change.. I control it from my iMac, my iPhone and my iPad... I don't know if I want to. With the extremely low latency of the MOTU at 32 samples, and my modest track counts, I am hoping I can stay right away from the CUE software... and just monitor through Logic.... that remains to be seen. When I tracked vocals, I didn't have any latency issue running direct out of Logic, like I had before and had to do (near zero latent) monitoring from the RME . Anyways, so far. ... I like it. Its simplified the studio for me.. and I think barring catasrophic bugs.. think the RME will go on the market next week. cheers Wiz your little delta has 0 latency 8)
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 4, 2015 22:36:48 GMT -6
just listened to the second track, it's beauty! thats close to "as good as it gets" as there is imo, i'm interested to hear multiple tracks stacked as that is a MUCH better indicator of function IME. You are round tripping this right? which means you're summing ITB? why not sum down to the delta 2 buss and AD to a finished stereo file and see what gives? it should be a bit nicer sounding? This is totally splitting hairs as this recording is total pro, but my criticism would be the bottom sounds a little bit hot on the vox, and the low mids strike me as mildly murky, are you boosting at 1-200? the overall quality is quite stunning man.
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 4, 2015 22:50:49 GMT -6
to clarify, a pounding dense compressed kick with a transient passing attack and a funky release, same setup on a cracking snare, some thumpy compressed low end rich bass tracks, with some guitars panned out wide, vox up the middle, some verbs out wide, push the levels over -12dbfs, make it work to tell you what it's got bud. That will reveal headroom +/-'s such as sibilance smooth/lurchiness, the clarity or lack there of will also expose the clocking accuracy. These are areas i noticed the rigs i demo'd crapped out compared to my rig, 2 mellow tracks are very forgiving to all but the shittiest of converter ime. That said, this 16x16 motu sounds very promising, the Ao24 could be the best DA deal ever to date?
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Post by wiz on Feb 5, 2015 0:52:37 GMT -6
You can see the EQ settings above... The 100Hz HPF is engaged. The acoustic is channel 1 The Vocal is Channel 3 I haven't worked out what the EQ points are on the modded delta yet.. will get to that... Its gonna take me a little while to get a feel for what works best... I plan on summing , I am just a bit rushed atm, and taking baby steps... "Baby stepping to the delta, baby stepping to the Motu" 8) (say in "What about Bob?" voice in your head 8) cheers Wiz
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Post by wiz on Feb 5, 2015 0:54:45 GMT -6
to clarify, a pounding dense compressed kick with a transient passing attack and a funky release, same setup on a cracking snare, some thumpy compressed low end rich bass tracks, with some guitars panned out wide, vox up the middle, some verbs out wide, push the levels over -12dbfs, make it work to tell you what it's got bud. That will reveal headroom +/-'s such as sibilance smooth/lurchiness, the clarity or lack there of will also expose the clocking accuracy. These are areas i noticed the rigs i demo'd crapped out compared to my rig, 2 mellow tracks are very forgiving to all but the shittiest of converter ime. That said, this 16x16 motu sounds very promising, the Ao24 could be the best DA deal ever to date? a quick side note.. I tested its harmonic distortion.. this thing is good all the way up to -1dBFS which.. compared to other stuff I have used.. is very very impressive.. not that I get up there... but .. its a very handy and telling spec... and It works in real life. cheers Wiz
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 5, 2015 1:41:09 GMT -6
it's that 4-6db bass boost on the vox channel that got me. Considering, that thing really sounds good man!
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Post by keymod on Feb 5, 2015 6:27:12 GMT -6
All indications are that MOTU have upped the ante considerably with their latest series of boxes. I believe it is now impossible to fault MOTU based solely on their sound quality which, in the past, may have not been ideal ( to some ears ). Thanks Wiz, for sharing your impressions. MOTU are promising Thunderbolt compatibility for Windows users and, if they come through, I would be hard-pressed to not pick up one or two of these boxes. You can get two of the sixteen channel MOTU offerings for the price of one sixteen channel Apollo. Interesting indeed.....
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Post by odyssey76 on Feb 5, 2015 19:37:06 GMT -6
I don't know about the quality of converters because I've only used a very few but I bet it wouldn't matter much because that vocal is so good. I only listened to the track with no EQ, absolutely beautiful. Now if those converters made my voice sound like that - I'd change my view As always wiz, incredible sounds. Congrats on the new purchase(s) look forward to hearing some tracks stacked up and (analog) summarized through the new Soundcraft Tony Signature model..........
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 20:36:44 GMT -6
OK, we already planned to buy the 24Ao in the next weeks, early next month most probably. We will see ... Surely we will compare it to the RM Superbeast on monitoring. Sounds great so far, wiz!
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Post by formatcyes on Feb 5, 2015 21:29:48 GMT -6
Sounds fantastic Wiz. You don't have to worry about convertors for a very long time (if ever).
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 5, 2015 22:00:31 GMT -6
OK, we already planned to buy the 24Ao in the next weeks, early next month most probably. We will see ... Surely we will compare it to the RM Superbeast on monitoring. Sounds great so far, wiz! you got me anxiously awaiting the results of this! I'm gonna feel really stupid if the RM doesn't sound at least a smidge better! do me a favor and just lie about it lol 8)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 6:15:00 GMT -6
;)Oh sure, no problem, tonycamphd. Sincerely, i really doubt, it can reach in this range. But it could come into the ballpark of the standard RM. Same output opamps, a greatly spec'ed sabre DAC. It also was a financial decision. Unfortunately, price has just gone up in Germany for the 24Ao. Maybe due to currency exchange, damn... We will see, hope we rock that nevertheless in our mentioned time frame. It will be connected via USB and is planned to be clocked by a Mytek AD which we will connect via ADAT, running both units at 96kHz, so we get 8x in, 24x out + additional outs over ADAT for submixes/effects/whatever (based on the 24 source channels). If i get this to work, at mixing time i want the monitoring to still run on the Superbeast. I may just use wdm drivers then instead of asio to accomplish this. When recording, i may monitor thru console, or 2 of the 24 outs directly, this won't hurt... Well, that's the plan...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 13:30:46 GMT -6
I'm having second thoughts about the Apollo after all the issues with Windows. Might ask the store if I can swap it for the MOTU 1248, it's pretty much the same as the 16A and thanks to Wiz I know it sounds great.
What do you think?
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Post by wiz on Feb 9, 2015 21:58:28 GMT -6
I am trying to learn the Routing on this thing, for latency free tracking cans mixes etc.. I am getting there.. in fact I think I am there...
I tracked this from scratch.
So this is the MOTU 16A running at 96Kz. 32 Buffers in Logic. Didn't hear any clicks or weirdness.
Here is the tracking and mixing info, mixing in brackets.
MOTU 16A
Acoustic VP28 KM84 (Delta EQ STA Level on mixdown)
Vocal U87 1073DMP STA level (Delta EQ STA Level on Mixdown)
Resonator MD421 VP28 (Delta EQ LA500 on Mixdown)
Shaker U87 VP28 (Delta EQ WA76 on Mixdown)
Valhalla Vintage Verb Dark Plate
Relab 480L Hall
This is using the Delta as hardware insert/return in logic. Out of MOTU 16A into Line Inputs of the Delta Channels . Using the post fader direct outs of the Delta Channel, then Using the Inserts of the Delta Channel to put in Hardware Compressors.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user550433336/tequila-sunrise
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 5:09:34 GMT -6
Man, i am excited about this. Sure, you use excellent sounding stuff OTB, and absolutely no doubt you as the source sound great whatever converters you would use, but i somehow want to believe and think i hear that the 16A has been a step up from what you used in your album production. How is your impression now working with the 16A, P? Did you have the feeling your former converters have limited you, do the new ones feel more like straight wire for you, does your OTB recording and mixing change anyhow (e.g. somehow different EQ usage)? And last but not least, how do you perceive the difference after a bit of time working with them?
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Post by keymod on Feb 10, 2015 6:12:18 GMT -6
This is really making me want to pick up one of the new MOTU units....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 13:25:15 GMT -6
This is really making me want to pick up one of the new MOTU units.... This has made me get one of the MOTU units, ordered a 1248.. Should be with me in 3 to 4 ..
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Post by wiz on Feb 10, 2015 16:51:04 GMT -6
Man, i am excited about this. Sure, you use excellent sounding stuff OTB, and absolutely no doubt you as the source sound great whatever converters you would use, but i somehow want to believe and think i hear that the 16A has been a step up from what you used in your album production. How is your impression now working with the 16A, P? Did you have the feeling your former converters have limited you, do the new ones feel more like straight wire for you, does your OTB recording and mixing change anyhow (e.g. somehow different EQ usage)? And last but not least, how do you perceive the difference after a bit of time working with them? Yesterday I finally got my head around the routing interface. I was able to make it do, what I had been doing in Total Mix on the RME UCX. Most of (not Most Wiz, ALL!!!) the issues I have been having have been me, not it... regards routing. I also haven't experienced (touch wood) any real issues, like clicks ( i thought I might have, I am pretty sure what I thought were two clicks in a file of me playing acoustic.. were my wrist cracking a bit, they happened at the same place in the song, twice.. thats pretty funny) Okay.. its definitely different to the RME UCX. It sounds different... it tests different. When I would do a DA/AD of a track using the RME.. I could tell straight away. The RME had a small Roll Off... which was kinda cool sometimes. I haven't done Blind Testing on this yet, perhaps today, but I haven't noticed it.. like I used to on the RME.. which is very cool. I seem to have picked up Footroom on the noise floor of my rig. Now a lot of that could be the re cabling of things, the re arranging of gear in the racks..etc.. but a couple of pieces of my outboard I didn't think were on, were... they were just really really quiet. That was really cool. Quiet is good. To directly answer your question about did my old converters limit me... Yes. In a couple of very important ways. 1. The RME had F*$k all headroom. The Motu has buckets. This is a bit of a game changer in some ways for me with valve outboard. 2. The RME had not enough outs, and even though I could expand them via ADAT and use my Behringer ADA8000, my ADA wouldn't do SMUX, apparently some do, mine wouldn't . Now I can track at 96Kz, and not worry. I have enough outputs, and integration of more, which might happen, would come from the 24Ao which has the same specs as my 16A (the 24 ai doesn't). 3. The previously mentioned noise floor. 4. This thing is really impressive when you test it for things like Freq Response and Harmonic Distortion, uber impressive.. that gives me an intellectual happy ending. 5. I really like the sound of it.. I actually wish I had this to do my last album...thats probably the biggest thing, as soon as I heard it.. I went.. damn.. would have been nice to use this... Time will tell on things like driver stability, reliability. ooh.... 6. I rang Motu in the USA yesterday at 5.55pm Motu Time.... they finish at 6pm. They guy, first of all didn't give me the bums rush to get off the phone...very cool.. secondly he was really nice, articulate and helpful... anyone who has ever dealt with RME Support would understand why that is such a breathe of fresh air. In Summary. The converter, sounds better than my old one.. no doubt. At its price point, it was the right choice. Fingers crossed on reliability stability. Making music with this, will be easier, more fun and sound better. Its a win cheers Wiz
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Post by wiz on Feb 10, 2015 16:51:51 GMT -6
This is really making me want to pick up one of the new MOTU units.... This has made me get one of the MOTU units, ordered a 1248.. Should be with me in 3 to 4 .. Let us know how you go.. and.. if you get stuck yell out, what little I know, I will share.. 8) cheers Wiz
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Post by formatcyes on Feb 10, 2015 16:57:47 GMT -6
wiz now you have an excuse to do the 5th Time Lucky
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