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Post by dandeurloo on Feb 12, 2015 21:17:06 GMT -6
I have a 24ao and a 16a. I haven't had a chance to try them out yet. I do look forward to it once I can set stuff back up from our recent move. Moving sucks.
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Post by keymod on Feb 13, 2015 5:52:12 GMT -6
I have a 24ao and a 16a. I haven't had a chance to try them out yet. I do look forward to it once I can set stuff back up from our recent move. Moving sucks. That will turn out to be a very nice rig, for sure. Looking forward to hearing your impressions. |
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Post by jdc on Feb 18, 2015 21:45:56 GMT -6
I picked up one of these after doing some research and reading Wiz's review. It connects via USB but the installer seems to have a problem placing the MOTUAVB.kext file in my Library/Extensions folder, which appears to be stopping the 16a from connecting via Thunderbolt to my Mac. Anyone else have this problem?
I have a ticket with tech support currently and MOTU has been great with offering up useful suggestions. If I find a solution I'll pass it along in case anyone has a similar issue.
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Post by jdc on Feb 19, 2015 11:24:38 GMT -6
I was finally able to resolve my issue. MOTU Tech support sent me a compressed version of the .kext file directly, which I unzipped and dropped in my extensions folder manually. That seemed to do the trick.
If anyone has any issues with connectivity with their units this might be something that helps.
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Post by mulmany on Feb 19, 2015 11:26:47 GMT -6
I have a 24ao and a 16a. I haven't had a chance to try them out yet. I do look forward to it once I can set stuff back up from our recent move. Moving sucks. Any news Dan? |
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Post by dandeurloo on Feb 19, 2015 14:53:08 GMT -6
Well, I am starting to move stuff around so I can hook up some of the studio stuff. All I can say again is moving sucks!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,978 
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Post by ericn on Feb 19, 2015 14:57:38 GMT -6
Well, I am starting to move stuff around so I can hook up some of the studio stuff. All I can say again is moving sucks! Yes try doing it 4 times in one year! |
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Post by dandeurloo on Feb 20, 2015 8:06:46 GMT -6
Sounds like one of my friends. I told him to buy stock in Uhaul. It would have been cheaper for him.
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Post by drew571 on Mar 10, 2015 19:49:10 GMT -6
mrmiller is a forum member and a MOTU software developer for the AVB product line, I am pretty sure he can explain it much better than me! But i can elaborate a bit about it. AVB is a prioritized ethernet open standard. AFAIK you can run networks of devices with up to 512 channels with AVB-capable routers in star configurations, configured from every computer device in the network (which can be many that have access to the whole bunch of device configuration and streams at the same time!). You aren't limited to MOTU devices, there are other routers, even an AVB ethernet soundcard (Echo) for Windows. Modern TBolt-capable Macs have AVB audio support inbuilt thru the OSx drivers! It's a very interesting concept. Especially since ethernet was not intended for realtime streaming of hundreds of high-res AV-streams! Obviously it is VERY cool you can use CAT5e/CAT6 computer network cables that can run hundreds of meters with your realtime streams, even more if you use glass fibre computer network! And still maintaining the low level compatibility of ethernet, i.e. devices have IPs, they run as little webservers that can be configured thru any webbrowser in the the network. Fascinating. (I can feel how my spock ears grow...) Yup, that pretty much covers it! I think the important take-home point is that this is an IEEE standard. Unlike previous attempts at ethernet-based audio (Dante/RedNet, CobraNet, Ravenna, etc.), the standard is open so that anyone can implement it without having to license it from a single company. PreSonus just announced AVB consoles at NAMM. Avid announced them last year or so. We'll all be able to interoperate and participate in an AVB network (well, pending testing with newcomers to iron out bugs on either end). We're trying to put out a pretty comprehensive set of boxes. The dream is definitely not a closed system with only MOTU gear, though, hence why I think AVB being an open standard is so important. Latency in the standard is guaranteed sub 2ms across up to 7 hops, connected by up to 100m cable runs. Our guarantees are slightly stricter at .625ms. The guarantees are part of the standard which require implementations to support packet prioritization (so your YouTube watching doesn't stop your realtime audio); bandwidth reservation; and high precision time stamping and clock synchronization. Unfortunately, that means you do need networking hardware that supports the AVB standards. Hopefully it will become more widespread, but it's not available in consumer network gear as of now. We make a 5 port switch that's probably the cheapest on the market. Otherwise, there are switches from Extreme Networks and Netgear available. AVB opens up a lot of really cool possibilities and simplifies a lot of configurations. And it will only get better as more companies adopt it. Hi mrmiller, thanks for all the info. Is there a chance AVB will work on a standard gigabit router but might suffer from high network traffic if the network becomes busy? Or is there something in the AVB switch that tells it not to work? I have routers that I can manually assign bandwidth priority from assignable LAN ports and also prioritize the type of data that gets priority. Will this be good enough? Thanks for all the info you've shared here! Definitely thinking about picking up a unit or two. |
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Post by formatcyes on Mar 10, 2015 21:48:24 GMT -6
Yup, that pretty much covers it! I think the important take-home point is that this is an IEEE standard. Unlike previous attempts at ethernet-based audio (Dante/RedNet, CobraNet, Ravenna, etc.), the standard is open so that anyone can implement it without having to license it from a single company. PreSonus just announced AVB consoles at NAMM. Avid announced them last year or so. We'll all be able to interoperate and participate in an AVB network (well, pending testing with newcomers to iron out bugs on either end). We're trying to put out a pretty comprehensive set of boxes. The dream is definitely not a closed system with only MOTU gear, though, hence why I think AVB being an open standard is so important. Latency in the standard is guaranteed sub 2ms across up to 7 hops, connected by up to 100m cable runs. Our guarantees are slightly stricter at .625ms. The guarantees are part of the standard which require implementations to support packet prioritization (so your YouTube watching doesn't stop your realtime audio); bandwidth reservation; and high precision time stamping and clock synchronization. Unfortunately, that means you do need networking hardware that supports the AVB standards. Hopefully it will become more widespread, but it's not available in consumer network gear as of now. We make a 5 port switch that's probably the cheapest on the market. Otherwise, there are switches from Extreme Networks and Netgear available. AVB opens up a lot of really cool possibilities and simplifies a lot of configurations. And it will only get better as more companies adopt it. Hi mrmiller, thanks for all the info. Is there a chance AVB will work on a standard gigabit router but might suffer from high network traffic if the network becomes busy? Or is there something in the AVB switch that tells it not to work? I have routers that I can manually assign bandwidth priority from assignable LAN ports and also prioritize the type of data that gets priority. Will this be good enough? Thanks for all the info you've shared here! Definitely thinking about picking up a unit or two. This is where the difference between a Hub, Router and switch need to be known and used. A modern switched LAN would be almost impossible to saturate as the way they work is to connect device to device. It is similar to standing next to a patch panel and pluging the devices directly into each other but at very high speed. If your LAN is having congestion issues have look at your switches. |
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Post by mrmiller on Mar 11, 2015 0:34:44 GMT -6
Hi mrmiller, thanks for all the info. Is there a chance AVB will work on a standard gigabit router but might suffer from high network traffic if the network becomes busy? Or is there something in the AVB switch that tells it not to work? I have routers that I can manually assign bandwidth priority from assignable LAN ports and also prioritize the type of data that gets priority. Will this be good enough? Thanks for all the info you've shared here! Definitely thinking about picking up a unit or two. No, you will not be able to connect AVB streams if there is non-AVB capable hardware between the two AVB nodes. Any hardware hoping to participate in an AVB network must support certain standards related to packet prioritization (802.1Q), bandwidth reservation (802.1Qat) and precise synchronization and timing (802.1AS). When an AVB node is connected to the network, it's supposed to announce its arrival and probe the network for other nodes and clocking info. Depending on what kind of response it gets, it will decide whether it's connected to an AVB-capable device or not. If not, it is not supposed to send any AVB traffic over that port. Sorry, that got rather technical. In short, you need an AVB-compliant switch to be able to send AVB streams through it. A normal switch or router will work for accessing the web app, however. If you only have two AVB devices, however, you don't need a switch—just connect them directly with an ethernet cable. |
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Post by keymod on Mar 11, 2015 5:15:55 GMT -6
If anyone is interested, Sweetwater had a demo 16A available as of yesterday. They sent me an email since I have one on my wish list.
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Post by drew571 on Mar 11, 2015 6:34:45 GMT -6
Hi mrmiller, thanks for all the info. Is there a chance AVB will work on a standard gigabit router but might suffer from high network traffic if the network becomes busy? Or is there something in the AVB switch that tells it not to work? I have routers that I can manually assign bandwidth priority from assignable LAN ports and also prioritize the type of data that gets priority. Will this be good enough? Thanks for all the info you've shared here! Definitely thinking about picking up a unit or two. No, you will not be able to connect AVB streams if there is non-AVB capable hardware between the two AVB nodes. Any hardware hoping to participate in an AVB network must support certain standards related to packet prioritization (802.1Q), bandwidth reservation (802.1Qat) and precise synchronization and timing (802.1AS). When an AVB node is connected to the network, it's supposed to announce its arrival and probe the network for other nodes and clocking info. Depending on what kind of response it gets, it will decide whether it's connected to an AVB-capable device or not. If not, it is not supposed to send any AVB traffic over that port. Sorry, that got rather technical. In short, you need an AVB-compliant switch to be able to send AVB streams through it. A normal switch or router will work for accessing the web app, however. If you only have two AVB devices, however, you don't need a switch—just connect them directly with an ethernet cable. Ok, thanks for clearing that up. And we want technical.  One last question. If two MOTU units are connected directly to each other with the ethernet, how do you access the web GUI for the mixer etc.? Can this also be accessed via thunderbolt/ usb connection? Thanks! |
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Post by mrmiller on Mar 11, 2015 10:02:18 GMT -6
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. And we want technical. One last question. If two MOTU units are connected directly to each other with the ethernet, how do you access the web GUI for the mixer etc.? Can this also be accessed via thunderbolt/ usb connection? Our drivers include a tiny web server that tunnels the web app traffic back and forth over the Thunderbolt or USB connection. The interface connected to the computer will show up in the AVB Discovery app just as if it were discovered via the network. As well, each interface runs a forwarding server for any interfaces that it sees. That means that although you're not connected directly to interface 2 at all, interface 1 will act as your go-between. As a result, interface 2's web app is not directly accessible but will be available inside interface 1's. |
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Post by drew571 on Mar 11, 2015 10:37:35 GMT -6
nice. seems to be very well thought out. i love the idea of being able to access the gui from any device. likely be picking up at least one 16a in the near future.
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Post by gouge on Mar 12, 2015 2:34:15 GMT -6
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. And we want technical. One last question. If two MOTU units are connected directly to each other with the ethernet, how do you access the web GUI for the mixer etc.? Can this also be accessed via thunderbolt/ usb connection? Our drivers include a tiny web server that tunnels the web app traffic back and forth over the Thunderbolt or USB connection. The interface connected to the computer will show up in the AVB Discovery app just as if it were discovered via the network. As well, each interface runs a forwarding server for any interfaces that it sees. That means that although you're not connected directly to interface 2 at all, interface 1 will act as your go-between. As a result, interface 2's web app is not directly accessible but will be available inside interface 1's. Hi mr miller. Enjoying your straight forward responses. I was wondering how avb is different to aes50? |
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 12, 2015 3:38:24 GMT -6
I just sold my Apollo and this looks like it could be absolutely great and what I absolutely love is the fact that there is enormous amounts of headroom for expansion. The converters sound great and I love how it seems you have a box almost specifically for many folks, I like that in a company. I would be interested to know if anyone has compared this to the conversion of an Apollo, to me it does sound very natural, I don't hear anything being hyped at all. wiz have you tried seeing how it performs when you start stacking a mix up and spreading it across your summing mixer? I'm thinking about using the funds off the sales of a few things to purchase a 16a and another 8 channels of summing to give me 16. I'd really love to hear how this sounds when it's being put at capacity. Also, I love the fact I can use my BLA modded ADA8000 as a digital patch bay for my 500 rack and be able to send 16 analog channels to the summing boxes. Also, I'm curious about the DSP EFX. From what I'm seeing this would mean I could use the onboard EFX before the summing unit. So, for instance I could PRE EQ my drums stem globally before hitting the summing box. I really like that if that's the case. And Mr. Miller, are there any plans to offer more EFX for the future that are hosted with it's onboard DSP? I really like the way this box looks set up futuristically, seems like there is a lot of headroom to play with. Really nice product, thanks for turning us on to this Wiz! |
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Post by drew571 on Mar 12, 2015 9:10:32 GMT -6
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. And we want technical. One last question. If two MOTU units are connected directly to each other with the ethernet, how do you access the web GUI for the mixer etc.? Can this also be accessed via thunderbolt/ usb connection? Our drivers include a tiny web server that tunnels the web app traffic back and forth over the Thunderbolt or USB connection. The interface connected to the computer will show up in the AVB Discovery app just as if it were discovered via the network. As well, each interface runs a forwarding server for any interfaces that it sees. That means that although you're not connected directly to interface 2 at all, interface 1 will act as your go-between. As a result, interface 2's web app is not directly accessible but will be available inside interface 1's. I'm guessing that you will need the avb switch to be able to access the gui with an ipad or other wireless device, correct? there's no way around that? |
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Post by mrmiller on Mar 12, 2015 9:23:03 GMT -6
I was wondering how avb is different to aes50? In short: very different. AES50 is based on the proprietary SuperMAC protocol. It can only handle up to 24 channels in either direction at 1x rates. It needs dedicated, AES50 routers to do more than point-to-point networks. AVB is an IEEE standard and hence embraced by the electronics community. Chipset makers like Marvell and hardware manufacturers like Netgear are onboard and producing compatible networking equipment. AES50, on the other hand, never has and never will be built into a Netgear switch. AVB can co-exist with traditional web traffic; AES50 cannot. I could keep going on with the differences but it's not that insightful at a certain point. AVB's also a much more flexible standard. It supports up to 500 or so channels of audio with guaranteed latency of at most 2ms across seven 100 meter hops (MOTU hardware guarantees .625ms). AVB can support other data streams as well, including MIDI and video. |
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Post by mrmiller on Mar 12, 2015 9:45:08 GMT -6
I'm guessing that you will need the avb switch to be able to access the gui with an ipad or other wireless device, correct? there's no way around that? Nope! No need for a switch to get on wifi. If you're connected via TB or USB to a computer that's connected to your wifi, that is good enough thanks to the aforementioned web server in the driver. Alternatively, just plug the ethernet directly into your wireless router. You only need an AVB-capable switch if you're planning on networking more than two AVB devices together. |
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Post by mrmiller on Mar 12, 2015 9:52:01 GMT -6
And Mr. Miller, are there any plans to offer more EFX for the future that are hosted with it's onboard DSP? I really like the way this box looks set up futuristically, seems like there is a lot of headroom to play with. Really nice product, thanks for turning us on to this Wiz! We're looking into adding more FX to round out the core set we've got. That said, these aren't intended as a full-fledged DSP platform like UAD's. It's aimed more towards monitoring and live mixing. |
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Post by mulmany on Mar 12, 2015 11:26:13 GMT -6
mrmiller, can you give me a rough usb latency figure. I read through the site lit and did not see that spec any where. Thank you.
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Post by mrmiller on Mar 12, 2015 11:29:04 GMT -6
mrmiller, can you give me a rough usb latency figure. I read through the site lit and did not see that spec any where. Thank you. On Mac, around 236 samples roundtrip @ 32 sample buffers. |
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Post by wiz on Mar 12, 2015 16:16:00 GMT -6
I just sold my Apollo and this looks like it could be absolutely great and what I absolutely love is the fact that there is enormous amounts of headroom for expansion. The converters sound great and I love how it seems you have a box almost specifically for many folks, I like that in a company. I would be interested to know if anyone has compared this to the conversion of an Apollo, to me it does sound very natural, I don't hear anything being hyped at all. wiz have you tried seeing how it performs when you start stacking a mix up and spreading it across your summing mixer? I'm thinking about using the funds off the sales of a few things to purchase a 16a and another 8 channels of summing to give me 16. I'd really love to hear how this sounds when it's being put at capacity. Also, I love the fact I can use my BLA modded ADA8000 as a digital patch bay for my 500 rack and be able to send 16 analog channels to the summing boxes. Also, I'm curious about the DSP EFX. From what I'm seeing this would mean I could use the onboard EFX before the summing unit. So, for instance I could PRE EQ my drums stem globally before hitting the summing box. I really like that if that's the case. And Mr. Miller, are there any plans to offer more EFX for the future that are hosted with it's onboard DSP? I really like the way this box looks set up futuristically, seems like there is a lot of headroom to play with. Really nice product, thanks for turning us on to this Wiz! Hi Jerome I have used mine as a Summing Mixer, 8 channels only (audio , that is) It was cool. I would be surpised if it didn't sound just as fantastic with 16 going. cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on Mar 12, 2015 16:19:06 GMT -6
We're looking into adding more FX to round out the core set we've got. That said, these aren't intended as a full-fledged DSP platform like UAD's. It's aimed more towards monitoring and live mixing. Thats probably the only thing on the box, I found a little bit undercooked. That and a polarity reverse button somewhere, for vocal monitoring when your preamp doesn't have one. Reverb Presets would be great... and quick snapshot buttons for a mix would be wonderful. cheers Wiz |
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One last question. If two MOTU units are connected directly to each other with the ethernet, how do you access the web GUI for the mixer etc.? Can this also be accessed via thunderbolt/ usb connection?
