What ya smokin Avid ?

Hey - apparently I've been under a freaking rock...I saw in a previous thread where you were talking about the subscription thing. Do you have a link that explains it all?

I'm on my 2nd week working with Logic X switching from Pro Tools. The subscription/service support fee was one of the reasons along with having to calculate my own hardware latency. I kept saying "I'll never quit PT because I know all the shortcuts and don't have time to learn a new DAW, etc. Then I just came to my senses and thought, shit I've quit smoking and drinking (9 years sober) no reason I can't quit Avid. I'm finding the switch to be easier than I thought and in 6 mos. time I should be as proficient or better than I was with PT.

Screw 'em......

Yes... bug fixes are still free. Basically the subscription service gets you "free" PT 12 or what ever comes down the road, and free help desk support.

can you explain why you're having to calculate your external hardware delay compensation in PT? were you using non HD? does PTHD do hardware delay compensation automatically? I suspect that this is the case, and if so, thats exactly why they suck, the built in limitations are fucking lame! I GUARANTEE this exact BS they do to squeeze more $ out of customers works the opposite. For example, i'm SOOOOO happy i went with an alternative to avid on my conversion, i'm now ultimately free to go with any platform i choose due to the direction i took, and the main reason i'm not sitting here with a pair of Avid 16x16 IO's right now, is because avid wanted to gouge another $2k out of me for PTHD to make the IO's work, they wouldn't work with PT11 non HD, I guess over $11k wasn't enough them? 
   I'll continue to use PT 10/11 for now, but as soon as i run into one more ioda of BS with them, i'm probably going to switch to cubase, i'm waiting to see when this whole incomprehensible "plan"(roll eyes) makes sense, and then i'll decide(it already burns my ass that you can't make heads or tails out of what the fuck their plan is?), they've already lost $11K+ from me, and are on the cusp of losing me as a customer all together.

T - I was using PT10 Native. No HD here - I couldn't afford it. PTHD does hardware delay compensation for you, Native does not. The thing that kills me is that PT Native is $699 new. You compare that to the other major DAWs such as Cubase, Logic, Sonar, etc. and it's the most expensive and doesn't even have all the features of most these others. Logic X is $199!!! Better stock plugs (I haven't got through them all yet), calculates my hardware latency automatically, no annual fee - which is complete fucking madness imo, and I can customize my key commands to mirror what I already known in PT.

There are things I don't like about Logic right now but I'll get used to it and learn it just like I had to in Pro Tools. I don't want to have to worry about annual fees I just want to make music and keep my focus there. Avid does shit that just doesn't make good business sense to me. Fortunately, there are a lot of great alternatives....

yes, and ATA mellomuse doesn't work 64bit or axx, or id have that on standby... always something.

Here's an honest question.  What kind of support does anyone need besides You Tube and Internet forums?  I have found any kind of troubleshooting issues much easier and faster learning on my own through the internet than any "support" offered by a software company of any kind.  



If your having an issue, there are hundreds or even thousands who have already had it and complained about it somewhere in a thread.  Why give AVID a nickel for practically nothing? 

cowboy i completely agree, was just describing what avid has stated and the absurdity of it: you know pay another 200 for software you already bought for 325 for no new features: its just silly and then they offer $300 off a trip you can't afford to make ?

Seriously?  Maybe in Nashville, but a far different story in LA.....  And must we really degrade the conversation to "poor" tools?

I haven't opted into Avid's support plan, but they didn't invent this game. Lots of software developers are opting into this form of "support". Get used to it. It's the wave of the future....

About "memberships" in modern software concepts...
It is a general trend, true.
E.g. Cakewalk just started to make another step in the same direction, but they communicate right from the start, that membership and full product purchase are transparent and equivalent. Purchase a product, and you have a year of full membership, pay the membership monthly and get every version coming out permanently. Plus - they communicate about upcoming features of the software that will fall into the next year of membership. It is a matter of communication, it seems.
All software companies try to switch from purchase of full products to membership models, and, in the end, to rentage of a software service. It is the same thing as the paradigm shift of local or privately running software and data space to client software and cloud services. Seriously, this is to no advantage of the customers, it is a threat to ownership, privacy, safety and freedom.
The marketing departments have to pull out their full bag of tricks to sell this to us.

Avid can rely on a large base of professional customers that are willing to follow every company decision about the purchasing and service model for the sake of compatibility and project sharing among pros alone.
Plus, they bought in heavily into the education facilities, no matter how serious they are, like SAE and similar, to secure a future userbase.
There is alot of serious competitors on the market, may it be Steinberg, Apple, Cakewalk, Magix or even Reaper and Ardour/Mixbus, and this competition led to very impressive feature sets and usability in all of their products. Each with their own strenghts and unique features, but all ready for professional usage...in all pricing categories from free to several thousand bucks.
Nobody is forced to follow Avid, a bit more diversity does not harm. You can always exchange midi data and broadcast waves and be "compatible" to whatever DAW you like.
It's a matter of choice...you can quit your DAW system anytime and have enough alternatives nowadays that is at least on par.
HD had/has the advantage of very large project handling with large channel count console feeding which seems to work flawlessly and was unique for a long time.
But that came at a hefty price point and dongle-like hardware restrictions, and if i understand it right, they still insist on refusing automatic latency measurements for third party hardware after opening up this former bottleneck - a feature AFAIK present on all competitor DAWs...
Long ago i switched DAW a few times, between Logic, Cakewalk and Steinberg, but that time the decision was much harder each time, nowadays, they aren't too different in what they are all capable of, and each of them is very usable. Not so back in the days...

This is nothing new, in fact it dates back to Sound Designer. Avid pushing it in the consumer market is new.
If your a major Post House or a multi room facility it's a no brainer.
Now just for comparison my wife's dept spends $10k on a similar plan for a piece of software, $5k on another piece and hardware. $600 covers a microscope or a Dishwasher for a year.
Do you need it ? No But if Your PT systems down and your spending hours hunting for a solution rather than calling an expert who you already paid for that's your choice.