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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 20, 2015 16:51:28 GMT -6
I would love to see another company rise and give Avid a run for it's money, it would improve things for all of us, but as of now, it ain't happening, Avid is in the $800+ million in sales per year category, it's stock has tripled since it's 2013 low point, Steinberg is in the $20 million per year category, the fact that avid is listed on nasdaq shows the capital it has, i don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon, it is also without a doubt the most popular platform by a long shot, you could combine cubase along with every other daw platform and still not even be in the vicinity of avids market share.
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Post by Randge on Jan 20, 2015 16:54:05 GMT -6
Time will tell. I sure know which one I would rather engineer a record with.
R
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Post by Randge on Jan 20, 2015 16:54:40 GMT -6
If they are doing so well financially, that just means they are screwing their customers.
R
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Post by drbill on Jan 20, 2015 16:57:06 GMT -6
I'd agree Says the PT user.... Ah, he's just sore cause I called his software a money trap. Avid has proven me correct several times now. R Nope. I'd agree with you wholeheartedly that it's a money trap. So are vintage microphones, compressors, and motorcycles. And I love em ALL. heh heh I'm doomed..... :-) |
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Post by drbill on Jan 20, 2015 16:59:09 GMT -6
If they are doing so well financially, that just means they are screwing their customers. R So you're saying that ALL successful corporations are screwing their customers? I suppose you also boycott Apple, GM, Microsoft, Ford, and all the other fortune 500 co's? |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 20, 2015 18:10:00 GMT -6
I haven't opted into Avid's support plan, but they didn't invent this game. Lots of software developers are opting into this form of "support". Get used to it. It's the wave of the future.... Dr. Bill is 100% correct. More and more companies are going to switch to this model (a) because of the steady stream of income and (b) because it restores many of the rights they've lost through legal challenges to their EULAs (mostly in the European Union). Software used to work that you bought a license to USE it but you didn't own or control it or have any claim to it but a lot of that has been removed in the courts. So... if you buy a support plan and just happen to 'get' software with it, you have no legal claim, no rights to re-sell, etc. Avid has done this for years for their Media Composer software (albeit at a much more reasonable - compared to PTHD - $299/year for at $1299 piece of software) my big issues with this particular scheme is that Avid has - as always - done a terrible job of explaining people's options, what it all means etc. For example, with Media Composer, it's $299 a year but if you don't keep current you have to buy a new full copy of Media Composer for $1,299! that sucks but is pretty black or white. The issue? Avid do not currently sell PTHD licenses without their hardware so what happens to those who don't pay $599/year? I've asked them this - they have no answer! Also for those of us who did buy in (in my case it made sense, I had PTHD10 and just bought a new mac pro so I needed 11 anyways) Avid still can't make the support portal show up in your account and are still using their old 'code' system to file support claims. It's unnerving to log in to your account with support and see it say "you do not have a support plan" I know at least 5 other upgraders who have this same issue - also the guy from Avid tech support doesn't have it in his account. Someone above said you have until March 2016 to get on the plan if you already own PT11. I'm almost certain that is not correct. Lots of PT11 users I know have spoken to avid and have been told either they have until December 31, 2015 to buy in or they have to buy in before a new version comes out without, of course, being told when that might be. Bug fixes .01 releases do not require a support plan. Well if you don't pay for the service contract and you want to up grade you buy the upgrade 8 and older $1500, Now I could have paid the service contract, I do wish they would simply bill monthly for the service and offer some kind of amnesty upgrade fee, but I don't run the company. |
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Post by Randge on Jan 20, 2015 19:15:10 GMT -6
I have never had to pay for an Apple or PC update before. Our vehicles have always have free recall repairs also. If you are re-buying what you already purchased, I would say that is a screwing. I seriously doubt Steinberg will ever pull that crap. Come to think of it, I have never had to do that with any analog gear, either, and the very reason why I am separating myself from most plugins, too. They can cut your service off when they want to. I am not comfortable with giving them that much power.
R
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 20, 2015 19:19:42 GMT -6
From first look at NAMM GCPRO:
AVID Pro-Tools 12
The newest edition of Pro Tools is here and ready to once again redefine the music, film, and TV industry, providing everything you need to compose, record, edit, and mix audio. Pro Tools 12 is available as a standalone software or available for subscription.
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 20, 2015 19:20:19 GMT -6
So I guess bug fixes are out for 11 and you have to pay for 12 update!!
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Post by wiz on Jan 20, 2015 19:22:35 GMT -6
I have never had to pay for an Apple or PC update before. Our vehicles have always have free recall repairs also. If you are re-buying what you already purchased, I would say that is a screwing. I have never had to do that with any analog gear whatsoever, and the very reason why I am separating myself from most plugins, too. They can cut your service off when they want to. I am not comfortable with giving them that much power. R I decided to do that as well, and have been moving to a DAW and Plug In agnostic approach. I hope to soon be at the point, where the whole Digital side of my world is of very little consequence... I also trying to make the gear (outboard, analog) I buy, holds some of its value. cheers Wiz |
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Post by matt on Jan 20, 2015 19:26:54 GMT -6
and the very reason why I am separating myself from most plugins, too. They can cut your service off when they want to. Yes. You are one update, or lack thereof, from being SOL on a plugin, or DAW software. If the company goes out of business, for instance, or if the technology is retired (TDM). I understand that technological change can drive obsolescence (TDM again), but it's the going out of business thing that worries me, particularly with Avid. If it happens, I hope that some company picks up the pieces and carries on. Unfortunately, it's a risk, and I'm getting into hardware for the same reason. Particularly with comps. But I rolled the dice with Avid and PT, admittedly. |
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Post by Randge on Jan 20, 2015 19:27:43 GMT -6
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Post by Randge on Jan 20, 2015 19:33:41 GMT -6
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Post by adogg4629 on Jan 20, 2015 19:33:49 GMT -6
Ah...does that mean that there will be no upgrade discount even if you own 11? It would be like $599? In essence I really wouldn't have any choice but to pay for the subscription? Extortion much? I talked to Avid a bunch of times about this before the holiday. As of my last conversation the PTHD updates break like this: As stated, its $599 for PTHD subscription. If you let your subscription lapse then...they haven't quite gotten that far in their thinking because they have that other pesky policy about not selling PTHD without a card. My bet is that they will get this sussed out and in typical Massholey Avid fashion, they will not be clear about anything. AD |
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Post by adogg4629 on Jan 20, 2015 19:36:44 GMT -6
Seriously? Maybe in Nashville, but a far different story in LA..... And must we really degrade the conversation to "poor" tools? No, Pro Tools is by far the standard in Nashville. Comparing Steinburg to Avid is like comparing Apples to other Apples. I've dealt with both companies and they are equally bad and good in their own special ways. And they are both better than Apple. AD |
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Post by odyssey76 on Jan 20, 2015 20:36:02 GMT -6
I have never had to pay for an Apple or PC update before. Our vehicles have always have free recall repairs also. If you are re-buying what you already purchased, I would say that is a screwing. I have never had to do that with any analog gear whatsoever, and the very reason why I am separating myself from most plugins, too. They can cut your service off when they want to. I am not comfortable with giving them that much power. R I decided to do that as well, and have been moving to a DAW and Plug In agnostic approach. I hope to soon be at the point, where the whole Digital side of my world is of very little consequence... I also trying to make the gear (outboard, analog) I buy, holds some of its value. cheers Wiz - you going to tape eventually? Maybe just use your DAW as a recorder? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 20, 2015 20:58:42 GMT -6
The decision to move almost completely OTB seems a good one with all the uncertainty and non stop wallet draining going on by plug and daw co's, reaper seems about the best option for a daw considering. I will be stopping by avid at the namm show to join the chorus of complaining, unhappy and intentionally miss/under informed malcontents 8)
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Post by wiz on Jan 20, 2015 21:26:54 GMT -6
I decided to do that as well, and have been moving to a DAW and Plug In agnostic approach. I hope to soon be at the point, where the whole Digital side of my world is of very little consequence... I also trying to make the gear (outboard, analog) I buy, holds some of its value. cheers Wiz - you going to tape eventually? Maybe just use your DAW as a recorder? Just the DAW as a recorder/playback that's my ideal scenario. As effects unit as well. I would like ideally, to have high quality outbord,that holds its value does a better job than anything could in the computer (plug ins, emulations etc). that way I could just change over my converters periodically and if I ever need cash I could sell some of my outboard. I really dislike the way I've spent thousands of dollars on plug-ins and essentially they have become electronic toilet paper. whereas The guitars and microphones I bought 25 years ago still hold most of their value and in some cases have increased.
Cheers
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Post by matt on Jan 20, 2015 21:50:13 GMT -6
The decision to move almost completely OTB seems a good one The Old Way is the best way. T, can't do NAMM, work intrudes. Say hi to everyone and enjoy BOC! If you meet donr before the show, please request "Before The Kiss, A Redcap" on my behalf. |
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Post by mulmany on Jan 20, 2015 22:18:17 GMT -6
Did anyone notice if you still get PT 10 with the new plan?
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Post by drbill on Jan 21, 2015 0:18:32 GMT -6
They lost practically EVERYONE, but that's because they are now outsourcing all the heavy lifting to the USSR and have no need for US designers. If the old guys that left get Steinberg up and running like PT, let us know. We may want to jump on board. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 21, 2015 0:58:57 GMT -6
They lost practically EVERYONE, but that's because they are now outsourcing all the heavy lifting to the USSR and have no need for US designers. If the old guys that left get Steinberg up and running like PT, let us know. We may want to jump on board. I assume you're joking? Link please. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 21, 2015 1:45:26 GMT -6
Man, i just watched a few cubase how to vids, it may as well be a different language, it is laid out almost nothing like a real console, and has a bunch of strange features that are too hidden and honestly seemed not very useful for me, i'll pay what ever avid asks before i switch to what seems i'd need to re learn from kindergarten curve? It honestly looks like it'd take a year just to get the basics on the thing? Maybe i'm just set in my ways, or old school? but just gimme a virtual console that looks like a real "console", and give me an edit window thats laid out close to what you'd expect from a real console, with a waveform window, with as many tools visible as possible without having to open a bunch hidden ?'s. Pro tools is a much simpler workflow from what i can tell, and the look is all business, honestly cubase also looks video gamish to me, sorry.
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Post by drbill on Jan 21, 2015 2:28:37 GMT -6
They lost practically EVERYONE, but that's because they are now outsourcing all the heavy lifting to the USSR and have no need for US designers. If the old guys that left get Steinberg up and running like PT, let us know. We may want to jump on board. I assume you're joking? Link please. Tony - sorry no link, but I'm not joking. Code is being written in Russia now. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 21, 2015 2:50:58 GMT -6
Yes many recording dilemmas
I find I am now like wiz frustrated with money wasted on plugs most i never use: leaning more towards OB, concerned about managing costs, frustrated with avid's customer service approach, although I , like, Tony am comfortable with PT's and mindful that the subscriotion model costs me less than a coffee a day with no learning curve.
what benefit was there to avid not telling people prior to dec 20, 12 will be avaiable soon? Cus people asked ?
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