What ya smokin Avid ?

Hey tonycamphd - why do you need to use ATA Mellowmuse in PT 10/11? It already has Delay Compensation...

I just picked up a license for PT 11 HD at a pretty good price. I ask that no one feel sorry for me - I have dedicated significant time and resources learning it and don't have a desire to learn something else unless I absolutely have to. I agree that Avid has problems with customer relations and the generation of revenue, and that the software is missing features included in competing solutions. They are struggling to find their way in a difficult business landscape, and need to do a better job if they are to survive, IMHO. I hope that they work things out for the betterment of the company, and all who use their product line.

I may be crazy, but PT makes sense to me when it comes time to record and mix a song. If I was just starting out, I might choose Cubase. In fact, I demoed it two years ago, but chose PT instead. So, there it is.

The "support" plan is less about support, and more about keeping everyone "updating" constantly. People skipping one or two version bumps has cost AVID a LOT of money. First they tried to have higher upgrade prices if you skipped a version, that didn't work. So the "support" thing is what they are now doing. I'm cool with it. I've jumped off their roller coaster and will upgrade when I feel like it - not constantly like they would prefer. I really don't care. But that will not stop me from using what I feel is the most comprehensive and excellent platform out there. As someone who makes a living staring at a DAW all day long, the difference in price of one, two or even a few hundred dollars is not going to make me "poor".  In FACT, PT has been the engine that has fueled a career that has afforded me all kinds of options that I very well might not have had if I had chosen cubase as my only platform.

matt from matt aka kcat

I understand and support your perspective and actually share it.

Its just a bit gauling for avid to cause you to think how much you have already cumulatively paid and then farm you out to the lower pasture until you had over even more dough ?

I have sold a bunch of stuff recently to deal with some financial pressures and in general I am more sensitive to the costs of my recording interests and really challenging the value add before I spend more money.

Yes, agreed, this is where Avid and other businesses who get desperate for revenue go wrong, IMHO. And it often backfires as a business principle because the last thing you ever want to do is alienate your customer base, and giving the impression - by changing the "contract" with the customer - that existing users are being re-charged for something (a license) they already paid for is a sure way to do it. If they leave, they typically never come back. I think that Avid is walking a fine line here, and risking all to bolster a pretty-much nonexistent bottom line. I don't think they have a choice, it's about survival for them, so they change the licensing model in an attempt to become profitable again.

Software as a subscription service is not new (re: Waves) and I think it will become more widespread as time passes and computing software becomes ever more embedded in modern life. Once software companies realize that their customers are dependent (OK, hooked), they will move to increase profits, with only social pressure holding them back. Heck, the world is already there. I would shrivel up and blow away if I didn't have my Internet, and will pay whatever to keep the pipe fat and full.

insidious ?

I think there is more insidious unstated shift occurring in terms of software user/purchaser rights of ownership.

Currently European law is advanced of North American law in terms of recognizing more user rights to the intangible asset/license you have purchased.

A subscription service documents a quite different legal relationship between purchaser/user and the manufacturing entity.

It seems to me we are quietly forfeiting our burgeoning stronger purchase legal rights to a contract where we have no legal rights related to ownership and have only a limited fee for service concept.

I presume everyone who purchased a subscription has nothing they could sell and it certainly ends every 12 months: like clockwork or like it was planned that way.

Nicely played, eh ?

Avid is calling the PT license "Perpetual" with the ability to purchase a support subscription, renewable each 12 months. It appears that you get one year of subscription support with an initial purchase. Unless I'm missing something, this is exactly how Waves works WUP. So, you can use the software forever, but after 12 months you have to re-up to get updates and/or support. I think the vagueness comes from Avid doing a poor job of defining the "types" of updates - feature vs bug killing, for instance - and what is covered by what. Does the Perpetual License cover bug patches, or not? I'm not sure. Looking into it.

That's what I thought, good news. But I think there is confusion about this policy, and Avid could do a better job at socializing this.

Or, I just missed it. Distinctly possible, it's been cold out here in the Wild West - at least for an Arizona boy. 75F today though.

The differences between Avid and Yamaha is pretty vast at this point.  I see Cubase/Nuendo making huge strides that PT isn't doing.  Just the plug ins alone that come with Cubase are features enough beyond what comes with a stock PT rig. They have added so much stuff in the last two versions that it isn't comparable anymore.  Add the VCA faders now to the channel-strips from version 7 and you have a rig that would cost far more on a comparable PT rig. Plus, with Yamaha being their backbone financially, the midi programs are growing at a rate that I can't even keep up with them all. I can site a good example of how they work well with other companies also.  Smart AV work hand in hand with Steinberg to advance their 3rd party consoles and Avid won't release the proper source code to fully function with the Smart Consoles. To me, they are shooting themselves in the foot there.  Just one example.

 As for PT being the standard in Nashville, I would say that is changing. I do lots of overdubs at small studios, which way outnumber the the big studios here in Nashville.  For years, all that you would have seen were PT rigs, but that model is changing.  This past year, I have seen more Logic and Cubase rigs than ever along with Cakewalk, Reaper and Audacity and the like creeping in also.  Smaller studios can afford them and that is the bottom line.  My friend, David Santos updated his PT rig last fall and spent $11,000 to get current.  Ouch! That sure takes a bite out of the outboard gear purchases for the year!  I would say it is getting closer to neck and neck here everyday since PT hasn't been on fire for a number of years now.  Nashville has Yamaha Corp located close by in Franklin, just down the road really and their support is pretty good, too, and there is something to be said for that. Where is Avid's office in Nashville? The coolest thing I have known Avid to do was offer discounts to Nashville flood victims back in 2010.

R

I am not arguing with anybody here , just sharing information and concerns.

It would be very easy for avid to clear this up and the fact that they chose not to leads me to wonder.

Certainly when I purchased, 11 it was with the assumption that i would continue to get bug fixes and of course that was long before any mention of a subscription service.

My codecs in 11 have never worked properly, so I do video work in 10; how weird is that ?