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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 15:47:44 GMT -6
Hi scumbum, my brother and me own a few SRC2496. They actually DO have some design flaws i noticed when i studied the schematics (yupp - they leaked...) - but it is working surprisingly well. Never had problems with these. Built cheap, but they ARE best one could buy at this pricing. Dead easy operation and configuration, the flexible input/output/conversion and copying options, duplicating signals, copy bit stuff upsampling etc.pp. do always find some application in a studio, therefore alone it is a pretty cool device to have, just for the situations where you need a digital swiss army knive in hardware. And I really liked what i heard when used as async reclocked upsampled DA. No joke. Just for listening. Much more than i expected. Heard alot of higher priced stuff that i don't like. (...and therefore did not buy). I never used the AD so i cannot tell anything about that. I used and use Kronauer, Mytek and the older Swissonics (also very good budget stuff and sounds good - IF it works. Has some problems sometimes due to overheating by design....) that was build before they were bought by Thomann. Let's face it - many good converters are simple reference designs in the end, a fairly good PSU, picking quality parts, and - measuring...that's it. Everything in the signal chain is more influencial than the AD - well, in mastering it is just good to know everything is completely up to specs. But - in the end you listen to monitors in rooms....far, far away from beein anything like flat, even in the best possible setups....
A friend of mine swears that some very cheap modern chinese stereo converters and tripath amps just based on reference designs sound that good he would not mind using them in a studio. He bought them just out of curiosity and was shocked really, about how sound quality becomes cheap to achieve nowadays. I do believe him. Seriosly. In the next time, i might order some stuff, just to verify. We are talking devices below 100 Euros....
Best regards, Martin
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 14:26:46 GMT -6
Hi guys, just want to tell you that we just ordered a standard 1794a Ross Martin DAC with the standard configuration National opamps thru paypal - that was actually ready built and on sale as of today... Just in case you are trying to order right now - i guess it's first come first serve, so this one is gone already.... Asked him to wire it for 220V for germany, we will see if he can make this happen...but since i heard, they are nice people i guess it might not be a problem, waiting for confirmation email. So i guess i can report soon about how it sounds at least against older but nice Swissonics and Kronauer units (haha, and Behringer, just a joke...but well...why not?). Maybe do a loopback recording thru Mytek (8x96 model, the one with separated XLR ins) AD. Maybe i can shootout against other higher class converters in another local studio 'round here, but can not guarantee that.... Best regards, Martin
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 22, 2013 14:59:06 GMT -6
Hi guys, just want to tell you that we just ordered a standard 1794a Ross Martin DAC with the standard configuration National opamps thru paypal - that was actually ready built and on sale as of today... Just in case you are trying to order right now - i guess it's first come first serve, so this one is gone already.... Best regards, Martin Cool small! congrats, looking forward to your impressions on that bad boy.
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Post by svart on Aug 22, 2013 15:40:17 GMT -6
What I wonder is if Ross can sell a converter for $329 that is pretty much the best , how come most company's sell their "best" 2 channel A/D converter for around $2,000 ? I have read alot of people say they like the Behringer ULTRAMATCH PRO SRC2496 and its only $200 . www.behringer.com/EN/Products/SRC2496.aspxThey sell them for that much because, well, they can. People will pay more money for what they perceive as more value, especially when investing in something like a business. You only buy the converter once, you want the best you can get, so you'll pay more than if it were something you'll be upgrading. That's the common idea behind product pricing. That and most larger companies have larger teams and larger costs so the products have to cost more. Some guy throwing PCM demo boards into a chassis probably doesn't have to pay for a building and employee insurance and such, so his costs are low. The general pricing algorithm is "sale price = 3x cost".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 20:27:38 GMT -6
Well, i just thought about it. If I make my personal DAC-shootout, it would be nice to make a few RMAA test runs through the pure loopback chains. This might reveal maybe a bit more, than just listen music thru the chain and give subjective impressions. Often enough i like gear because of a special sound. Nothing wrong with that, but a converter should be flat, and that's all in the end...and i consider the Mytek AD to be pretty accurate, in the end, i do not have a better one at hand right now...
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Post by scumbum on Aug 22, 2013 21:10:34 GMT -6
Jim Williams made this D/A recommendation to me no more than 2 weeks ago, Jim is extremely hard to please when it comes to this stuff, I trust it must be killer. Exactly ! If I had come across Ross Martian's converters on my own , by the price and the looks of them , I'd probably never try them . But Jim Williams said the D/A sounded REALLY good and highly recommended it . Then littlesicily says the A/D converters are the best ..........Alrightly Then , these converters have to kick ass and this price point , unbelievable !!
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Post by 4trakheadstak on Aug 23, 2013 13:34:27 GMT -6
WOW! That is cheap! I might have to pick one of those up.
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 24, 2013 7:31:19 GMT -6
can anyone make a recommendation on what pcie card to use with protools for this? I'm thinking if i can make it work, i would like to keep my rather incredible BLA fm clocked digi 002, and use the Ross for multi channel DA to my console?? I would like to add up to 32 channels if thats possible, but this route and thinking is something brand new to me, and i'm not sure it's feasible? thanx for any info T
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 13:46:45 GMT -6
I remember Lynx always had Multi-AES-cards. But never used one...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 10:28:36 GMT -6
Hi, i just want to share, that the first Ross Martin DAC has found his harbour in our local german customs office today. Darker wood than on the photos, with an external 220V->16V AC power transformer box, as we asked for, so no stepdown transformer required and no changes to the internals of the converter to prepare it for 220V. OK, the power plug is missing. Europe has sooo many different plug standards.... No problem at all. Email communication / customer service has been flawless until now. Another unit has already been ordered, so we will see how long it will take if it is newly built and not on sale as-is. So absolutely no complaints until now. Uncomplicated. Prompt delivery for a business as small as this. Unfortunately, no invoice paper in the box. Would have been nice, but paypal account information did it for the customs, as always - no problem. BTW, TARIC-code for EU-based customs handling procedure is 8518210090, if you wanna be nice to your friendly customs officer..... I will report as soon as we have first impressions...might take a while, it is not top of the list at the moment...just wanted to report the positive customer experience. Best regards, Martin
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Post by scumbum on Sept 12, 2013 11:05:30 GMT -6
Thats cool , I'm gonna order the A/D converter soon . Maybe he improved customer service ??
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 12, 2013 11:48:21 GMT -6
Hi, I will report as soon as we have first impressions...might take a while, it is not top of the list at the moment...just wanted to report the positive customer experience. Best regards, Martin exciting! i'm really looking forward to reading your impressions small, that DAC is on my list.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 11:49:34 GMT -6
OK, one on quick first impressions. I was very suprised first. It seemed to distort. For about 15-20 minutes. Maybe the 48h burn-in that they already provide at Martin Ross' place is just not enough. Well, joking. After that, sound changed not really anymore, but not sure, so my next listening session is next weekend, it will be in use meanwhile so no deeper review until then. OK, what was my impression? It was test-listened thru a passive monitor controller into some very good serviced active K+H O98, that are, if you can say anything about it, true and honest by every meaning. I use to use a pair by myself, so i am used to them, but we listened at my brothers place. Second set was thru the monitor controller into the symmetrical inputs of a Restek amp, into passive pair of very good Cabasse speakers. I am listening to Cabasse speakers alot, so it is a fair competition, in a subjective sense. We just listened to music that we know really good. At the K+H speakers. Astonishing. Very good reproduction of the stereo field and phantom audio sources in good mixes, it reveals every weak spot in a mix immediately. I thought of the DA's we had before for listening as good medium range DAC's, and this one is definitely going a step beyond. On the K+H you think of them as a piece of wire into a piece of brutally honest speaker. Thru the Cabasse we noticed some sounds, we did not notice before, some things, that did not sound as good, as we thought they do - when listening to Sea Change from Beck. The DVD-A, 24bit 88khz. Something we really like, and we noticed things, that we simply did not notice before. Quite emotional moments.... Yep, i guess this DAC is kind of brutal. Like a piece of wire. You can judge the general quality of a mix in a minute. Would be good to judge quality losses by conversions, like MP3 production for digital platforms or such. As funny as it sounds, i think, i still would use my swissonics for mixing, because i like their "sound", but this one definitely as the last thing in the chain. Master DAC. How flat it really is, we might check at the next sessions. By s.t. real, i.e. loopback test etc.. But this is my subjective first impression. Dunno when, but we will receive one with the ADA-opamps, when it is done. I wonder if this can gain anything in terms of quality with the same DAC chip, but we will see. I did expect a good DAC. Not "at this price point" but generally. I was not disappointed. It exceeded my expectations alot.
Best regards. Martin
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 12:32:00 GMT -6
What does it compare to, in terms of an interface? Burl? Apollo? RME? Apogee? Avid?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 14:05:01 GMT -6
Well, above RME and Apogee, i would say. Did not hear the others.
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 16, 2013 14:31:59 GMT -6
Wow!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2013 7:21:36 GMT -6
better than the Symphony or AVID I/O?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 17, 2013 10:17:53 GMT -6
Can I use this with my Apollo for final mix A/D, in the same way you can use a Burl. If so, it sounds like the answer to my need for a Burl, but my need to pay the rent first.
Does this thing become the master clock too?
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Post by scumbum on Sept 17, 2013 11:01:41 GMT -6
Ross updated his site . Check this out , The 8 channel A/D ,
"Adat™ Eight Channel PCM1794A Optical Playback and Eight Channel PCM4222 Recording interface With Midi and Word Clock Plus S/MUX and USB. Price to be announced soon."
Hes also making Mic pres now , they are cheap too ,
“Silent Knight” Two Channel Mic Pre Amp. THAT 1512’s pre amps + LME49990’s as a Cut Boost Pre Line Driver and THAT Out Smarts Line Drivers. Mic Direct and Mic Transformer Coupled Inputs. Line Level Input. Led Vu Meters plus 48 Regulated Volt Phantom Power. 110 or 220 volt operation $379.95 With Jim Williams Awesome Sounding PIP Modules $479.95 1ru rack mount
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Post by popmann on Sept 17, 2013 13:43:49 GMT -6
Can I use this with my Apollo for final mix A/D, in the same way you can use a Burl. If so, it sounds like the answer to my need for a Burl, but my need to pay the rent first. Does this thing become the master clock too? Do you mix analog? I don't see this as comparable to a Burl. It's an utterly different thing. These are just TI eval boards being thrown in a box with some switching, no? This is like the anti-Burl conversion. NOTHING done on the analog side. It's literally a TI eval board thrown into a box with a wall wart and some switching implemented. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's why it's cheap--it a guy getting eval boards from TI, with some little chassis and power wall wart transformer putting them together on demand. Which is fine. But, if you're hearing "better"--it's because the eval unit's simpler circuit and the chip filter is newer than what you're comparing. I still say that including "universal jacks" on most interface inputs has change the perception of how good/bad converters are. I'd love to hear one...if anyone in the Nashville area can spare one for a couple days. But, at best, it's what is the latest tech "on chip filtering". So, maybe it's a generation newer than anything in production, but unless something's changed recently--the "big guns" don't even use the on chip filtering. Certainly the "sound" of the Burl has very little to do with the completely non proprietary AD chip they use.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 17, 2013 21:19:39 GMT -6
Thanks popman. I just thought that perhaps it would outgun UAD's 2192, or BLA's Red Sparrow, since it might be a newer converter. No, I'm an in the box guy right now. I use the Warm Audio ToneBeast preamp for tracking, into Apollo to DAW, using Logic X, that's it.
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 18, 2013 0:38:46 GMT -6
Can I use this with my Apollo for final mix A/D, in the same way you can use a Burl. If so, it sounds like the answer to my need for a Burl, but my need to pay the rent first. Does this thing become the master clock too? Do you mix analog? I don't see this as comparable to a Burl. It's an utterly different thing. These are just TI eval boards being thrown in a box with some switching, no? This is like the anti-Burl conversion. NOTHING done on the analog side. It's literally a TI eval board thrown into a box with a wall wart and some switching implemented. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's why it's cheap--it a guy getting eval boards from TI, with some little chassis and power wall wart transformer putting them together on demand. Which is fine. But, if you're hearing "better"--it's because the eval unit's simpler circuit and the chip filter is newer than what you're comparing. I still say that including "universal jacks" on most interface inputs has change the perception of how good/bad converters are. I'd love to hear one...if anyone in the Nashville area can spare one for a couple days. But, at best, it's what is the latest tech "on chip filtering". So, maybe it's a generation newer than anything in production, but unless something's changed recently--the "big guns" don't even use the on chip filtering. Certainly the "sound" of the Burl has very little to do with the completely non proprietary AD chip they use. popman, the obvious differences between the burl and martin aside, honestly, you couldn't sound more disparaging about a person and piece you NEVER heard, if you tried??? Are your statements about its construction founded or speculative? Seems a little odd to come off so strongly against someone and something you've never heard and have no experience with? Jim Williams has heard the martin stuff, and he's says its great? every piece jim has told me sounds great, has sounded great when i heard it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 9:17:17 GMT -6
Well, ok, i doubt the 1794A DA converter is so much more than what is on the evaluation board, but there is nothing wrong with that. I will take a look under it's hood this weekend and tell you more about it. There is nothing wrong with building a converter into a design that is very close to the chip manufacturers test circuits and put in your own experience in the board, keeping it simple and clean with good analog components. Sure, converter designers can use different filter chips, even do their own analogue filter circuits etc.pp.. The art is to get the most out of it, no matter how. Maybe i will take some photos so you get a better picture of the DAC.
BTW, the unit i have does not have wordclock. It is (cl)locked by the spdif signal. So my master clock in this case was the M-Audio Lightbridge ... this is good to know, because you have to think about how you integrate it in your setup. Normally you might clock the master DAC via wordclock to your master ADC, if you intend its use as a DAC for your analog mastering chain, not possible this way here. E.g. all my other gear is ADAT and uses WC.
Thanks for the head up concerning the announced ADAT converter - seems Ross Martin had time to work with the Wavefront chip. It is hard to get any information or license from Wavefront as a small business, years ago i was into ADAT recherche....there was an ADAT board done over at GroupDIY then to feed 12ch. Apogee cinema converter boards.... ADAT makes things easier for multi-channel setups...
Best regards, Martin
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Post by popmann on Sept 18, 2013 10:25:13 GMT -6
Do you mix analog? I don't see this as comparable to a Burl. It's an utterly different thing. These are just TI eval boards being thrown in a box with some switching, no? This is like the anti-Burl conversion. NOTHING done on the analog side. It's literally a TI eval board thrown into a box with a wall wart and some switching implemented. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's why it's cheap--it a guy getting eval boards from TI, with some little chassis and power wall wart transformer putting them together on demand. Which is fine. But, if you're hearing "better"--it's because the eval unit's simpler circuit and the chip filter is newer than what you're comparing. I still say that including "universal jacks" on most interface inputs has change the perception of how good/bad converters are. I'd love to hear one...if anyone in the Nashville area can spare one for a couple days. But, at best, it's what is the latest tech "on chip filtering". So, maybe it's a generation newer than anything in production, but unless something's changed recently--the "big guns" don't even use the on chip filtering. Certainly the "sound" of the Burl has very little to do with the completely non proprietary AD chip they use. popman, the obvious differences between the burl and martin aside, honestly, you couldn't sound more disparaging about a person and piece you NEVER heard, if you tried??? Are your statements about its construction founded or speculative? Seems a little odd to come off so strongly against someone and something you've never heard and have no experience with? Jim Williams has heard the martin stuff, and he's says its great? every piece jim has told me sounds great, has sounded great when i heard it. Yes, I could. I dare you to quote anything I said that says it may not sound good. I pointed out what I believe it is--a reference board converter. And there's NOTHING wrong with that. It DOES make it the opposite of a Burl. Not good/bad, but yhe opposite end of the philosophy spectrum. I don't think if you like tranformer clipping/mojo there's anything similar to be had in a reference box. I mean, sure I could admittedly substitute "inexpensive" for "cheap" if I were in the business of writing for fanboy pansies. I could add that it's always possible the new on chip filters are DA BOMB....who knows? Williams has been suggesting people buy and wire up the TI reference boards for years. You know, lifetimes ago, Dan Kennedy broke down the cost of making a great sounding preamp. It was less than $100 in parts. $50 if you didn't need them available in bulk with a defined production road map. The point is--almost all gear can be made less expensive by a guy building it himself with no marketing, no pretty unique chassis, no need to keep stock....which is all a long way of saying this probabaly DOES sound very good. Not the opposite. I ended with a desire to demo it. Why on earth would I want to demo something I have some belief is inferior?
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Post by scumbum on Sept 18, 2013 10:42:57 GMT -6
Yes, I could. I dare you to quote anything I said that says it may not sound good. I pointed out what I believe it is--a reference board converter. And there's NOTHING wrong with that. It DOES make it the opposite of a Burl. Not good/bad, but yhe opposite end of the philosophy spectrum. I don't think if you like tranformer clipping/mojo there's anything similar to be had in a reference box. I mean, sure I could admittedly substitute "inexpensive" for "cheap" if I were in the business of writing for fanboy pansies. I could add that it's always possible the new on chip filters are DA BOMB....who knows? Williams has been suggesting people buy and wire up the TI reference boards for years. You know, lifetimes ago, Dan Kennedy broke down the cost of making a great sounding preamp. It was less than $100 in parts. $50 if you didn't need them available in bulk with a defined production road map. The point is--almost all gear can be made less expensive by a guy building it himself with no marketing, no pretty unique chassis, no need to keep stock....which is all a long way of saying this probabaly DOES sound very good. Not the opposite. I ended with a desire to demo it. Why on earth would I want to demo something I have some belief is inferior? Since I'm a fanboy pansy , I'd appreciate it if you actually did use the words "inexpensive" and "DA BOMB" . And also the phrase "TOTALLY AWESOME" would be appropriate at times in describing features you like on Ross's Converters . Thank You , Sincerely , fanboy pansy
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