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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 14:34:21 GMT -6
The 24Ai is the ADC equivalent of the 24Ao DAC unit. I do not know, if it could hold up with the quality of the 24Ao, which is really, really good, and not only for it's price. I don't think this could be possible, DACs are a bit easier to get really good than ADCs... The 16A can not hold up to the 24Ao with DAC quality for a simple reason - it's a more complicated design, supposed to be a 1RU allrounder device, ADCs and DACs. Hard to get that as clean in a pcb design, i guess, if possible at all. Also from what i read they use different chips.
I just read what BLA do to the 24Ao in their premium mod. If i understand it right, they "only" improve decoupling of the converter chips and the opamps and replace the wordclock crystal. That's cool, if this already brings a perceivable improvement. I guess they did not see much possibility for improvement in changing the opamps, as they might already be the best choice in this design. Are they the National LME49720? Can't remember if it had been said before, but if these are the ones, it may be hard to improve without making the 1RU unit with 24ch a baking oven...
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 10, 2016 16:22:33 GMT -6
The 24Ai is the ADC equivalent of the 24Ao DAC unit. I do not know, if it could hold up with the quality of the 24Ao, which is really, really good, and not only for it's price. I don't think this could be possible, DACs are a bit easier to get really good than ADCs... The 16A can not hold up to the 24Ao with DAC quality for a simple reason - it's a more complicated design, supposed to be a 1RU allrounder device, ADCs and DACs. Hard to get that as clean in a pcb design, i guess, if possible at all. Also from what i read they use different chips. I just read what BLA do to the 24Ao in their premium mod. If i understand it right, they "only" improve decoupling of the converter chips and the opamps and replace the wordclock crystal. That's cool, if this already brings a perceptible improvement. I guess they did not see much possibility for improvement in changing the opamps, as they might already be the best choice in this design. Are they the National LME49720? Can't remember if it had been said before, but if these are the ones, it may be hard to improve without making the 1RU unit with 24ch a baking oven... oh but that oven beeeeee coookin!!!
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Post by dandeurloo on Apr 11, 2016 8:27:42 GMT -6
The BLA mod does help. I had them do mine at first. I was moving studios and house when I got my 24Ao and I sent it to them because they wanted to see it. The mod helps for sure. I asked them to take it further and they didn't want to do that so I did a lot more here after their work. Both made very noticeable improvements.
I haven't seen in the 24Ai. I may not be as great as the 24ao but it maybe.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 11, 2016 11:02:48 GMT -6
The specs of the 24Ai are significantly lower than the ADC specs of the 16A. Can this be real? I like the idea of 24 inputs for a portable tracking setup, but the specs are pretty poor.
24Ai - Dynamic range (A-weighted) = 110dB | THD+N (unweighted) = -102dB 16A - Dynamic range (A-weighted) = 117dB | THD+N (unweighted) = -110dB
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Post by svart on Apr 11, 2016 11:19:15 GMT -6
The specs of the 24Ai are significantly lower than the ADC specs of the 16A. Can this be real? I like the idea of 24 inputs for a portable tracking setup, but the specs are pretty poor. 24Ai - Dynamic range (A-weighted) = 110dB | THD+N (unweighted) = -102dB 16A - Dynamic range (A-weighted) = 117dB | THD+N (unweighted) = -110dB Most of those specs are relative. They might be completely different in your setup vs. someone else's.. Unfortunately these types of specs mean almost nothing in the real world, they are simply marketing..
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 11, 2016 11:25:35 GMT -6
The specs of the 24Ai are significantly lower than the ADC specs of the 16A. Can this be real? I like the idea of 24 inputs for a portable tracking setup, but the specs are pretty poor. 24Ai - Dynamic range (A-weighted) = 110dB | THD+N (unweighted) = -102dB 16A - Dynamic range (A-weighted) = 117dB | THD+N (unweighted) = -110dB Most of those specs are relative. They might be completely different in your setup vs. someone else's.. Unfortunately these types of specs mean almost nothing in the real world, they are simply marketing.. Even if they're relative, their relative to their own products. The 24Ao specs are much better than the 16A, but the 24Ai specs are much worse than the 16A. You would thing their standalone Input and Output units would beat the All In One.
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Post by svart on Apr 11, 2016 12:45:48 GMT -6
Most of those specs are relative. They might be completely different in your setup vs. someone else's.. Unfortunately these types of specs mean almost nothing in the real world, they are simply marketing.. Even if they're relative, their relative to their own products. The 24Ao specs are much better than the 16A, but the 24Ai specs are much worse than the 16A. You would thing their standalone Input and Output units would beat the All In One. Not necessarily.. As someone who does spec's for product lines.. It's really up to the tester and the setup, how it's terminated, etc. For example, we recently sent out a box to be tested for FCC.. We got completely different results from our in-house testing when regarding SNR, etc, even though we followed FCC testing rules for our internal tests. Sometimes it's the best number of, or specially chosen devices, sometimes not.. A group of test units might average, say, -105dB, but you have one outlyer showing -110dB.. Care to guess which one will be the source of the spec? (Apple has been guilty as hell of doing this kind of "fancy" spec'ing in the past trying to one-up PC performance..) Besides, like I said, in analog systems, with mixers, rack gear, lots of cabling, your noise floor will be much higher than the spec might lead you believe. Non-linear mixing might give you spectral issues that you wouldn't see with single devices. Ground loops might cause yet more issues. A good rule of thumb is take the spec, cut 1/3rd off it if and that's what you're likely to see.
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Post by dandeurloo on Apr 11, 2016 14:21:38 GMT -6
I remember that some place MrMiller said they used a cheaper chip in the 24Ai. They admitted that the 16A was better on the AD side then the 24Ai.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 11, 2016 14:37:59 GMT -6
I remember that some place MrMiller said they used a cheaper chip in the 24Ai. They admitted that the 16A was better on the AD side then the 24Ai. It seems foolish that they would do this. The 24Ai seems like it would be THE ideal product for capturing direct outs from a board in a small club. 1 rackspace and 1 cable to my computer and I can capture all the shows I'm running. I'm just put off by the idea that it's got cheapo converters. If I wanted poor specs, I could just stick with the lousy Focusrite box I have and add a Behringer ADA8200 and not drop a thousand bucks on conversion.
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Post by dandeurloo on Apr 11, 2016 14:57:08 GMT -6
I hear ya. I remember him saying it had to do with space limitations or something like that, which is clearly not true. I thought it was lame. They should have just made them killer all the way through and charged a 4-500 more for them.
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Post by jimwilliams on Apr 11, 2016 15:22:10 GMT -6
High end analyzers like AP can get various readings dependent on how it's set up. Even environmental issues like florescent lights will affect noise and THD specs. Those posted specs sound like they were taken off the chipset data sheets.
If you see the actual plots with test dates then they are probably real.
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Post by wiz on Apr 11, 2016 15:46:33 GMT -6
My understanding when I looked into it..
16A better AD than 24ai
16A not as good DA as 24ao
I have a 16A, I might add a 24Ao at some point
cheers
Wiz
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 11, 2016 16:10:46 GMT -6
High end analyzers like AP can get various readings dependent on how it's set up. Even environmental issues like florescent lights will affect noise and THD specs. Those posted specs sound like they were taken off the chipset data sheets. If you see the actual plots with test dates then they are probably real. The point I'm trying to make is that this company releases 3 units all at the same time. The standalone ADC has poor specs, the all in one unit specs well, and the standalone DAC specs best. You would think that the all in one would have the compromised chips, not the dedicated AD unit. Seems foolish to me.
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Post by lolo on Apr 11, 2016 16:47:43 GMT -6
2 years is creeping up and I still dont have a superbeast. And Ross vanished. Dont get any response from him
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Post by mulmany on Apr 11, 2016 17:27:56 GMT -6
2 years is creeping up and I still dont have a superbeast. And Ross vanished. Dont get any response from him Wow! That sucks! I would be pissed. I was a little freaked out at 3 months.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 18:12:52 GMT -6
In the beginning our longest waiting time was 6 months. I doubt i would order one now. Sad to hear this, lolo. Annoying, i bet.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Apr 11, 2016 20:37:34 GMT -6
all of you who haven't received it yet paid for it should file a class-action suit against him.
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Post by actualsizeaudio on Aug 11, 2016 15:02:42 GMT -6
I ordered an 8 channel DAC in April. I already had one I bought in 2013. In 2013 the wait was 3 months. This time it was 4 months, it came last week. Not horrible, although he said it would be a month.
I'm assuming other people got theirs?
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 11, 2016 16:28:57 GMT -6
I ordered an 8 channel DAC in April. I already had one I bought in 2013. In 2013 the wait was 3 months. This time it was 4 months, it came last week. Not horrible, although he said it would be a month. I'm assuming other people got theirs? Damn. You're a lucky one
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 11, 2016 17:06:35 GMT -6
Yeah, no doubt. 4 months is a walk in the park. Count yourself lucky you got one at all.
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Post by actualsizeaudio on Aug 12, 2016 9:00:58 GMT -6
Well, I would hope if he was able to make mine, he could make the ones for the other people waiting for them.
Unit sounds really nice. I had him use some different Op amps than what was in the first one, and the difference, while very subtle, is nice.
But holy heck, the guy needs to smoke less. I wanted to save the box and packaging but I tossed them since they smelled so strongly of cigs.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 12, 2016 22:28:02 GMT -6
whelp, we know where all the money we send him goes. he's spending it on cigarettes instead of parts lol
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