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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 15, 2016 17:43:03 GMT -6
yes, there is NO doubt that his rigs sound really really great, if you are willing to wait, to spend a marginal amount of cash on top of the purchase going the extra mile to clean them up(still way cheaper than units sounding far inferior), they are just killer at any price, ross has to get some credit for his design and layout, both matter, and they sound awesome! Yes i may have taken a gamble on him, but i'm not stupid either, i dotted the I's and crossed the T's, short of him dropping dead, i'm going to ultimately end up with an insane sounding 32 channels of JW/dandeurloo modded Super beasts feeding my stupidly great sounding console, and at less than 1/2 the cost of a pair of Avid 16's that would NOT compare sonically. The wait has been somewhat rough in terms of stress, but I still feel decent about my decision, knock on woot 8) m Of course you would have had the Avids in hand months ago! The statement above from Ross makes it really hard to root for the guy! It's time for him to dig deep into his pocket spend some cash catch up , build them right and watch the orders come in! Or at least get Tony's out the door! understood, and I agree on some of that, but i KNEW i wasn't going to be ready for the conversion for a good bit, and i'm currently un ready for them, but i am closer, and i've been tightening the screws on him a bit, he knows time is about up...
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Post by mitchkricun on Apr 8, 2016 5:17:57 GMT -6
Anyone got their units yet? I'm getting worried. I've emailed them 6 times over the last 8 months, asking very politely for a general time frame and haven't gotten one reply. I'm guessing they view my emails as harassing, but if they had responded to ONE of them, I wouldn't have felt the need to send another. And I promise, the language is very non confrontational. Usually something like, "Hi, just wondering if I can get get a general time frame for my order?" I'm afraid to get confrontational, because I figure that will only cause more delay. This is such a strange place to be for me, but knowing SOMEONE has gotten their order filled recently would leave me with some hope. Thanks guys!
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 8, 2016 7:03:53 GMT -6
Anyone got their units yet? I'm getting worried. I've emailed them 6 times over the last 8 months, asking very politely for a general time frame and haven't gotten one reply. I'm guessing they view my emails as harassing, but if they had responded to ONE of them, I wouldn't have felt the need to send another. And I promise, the language is very non confrontational. Usually something like, "Hi, just wondering if I can get get a general time frame for my order?" I'm afraid to get confrontational, because I figure that will only cause more delay. This is such a strange place to be for me, but knowing SOMEONE has gotten their order filled recently would leave me with some hope. Thanks guys! He's still there, I've received 5 of my 7 boxes, going into my second year of waiting, I'm pretty pissed about it, but what good is getting nasty with him going to do? He said my last two boxes are put together and he's waiting on some parts, believe me, what ever ur feeling, I've felt, my investment was an uncomfortable $5k! The good news is the boxes I've received sound GREAT!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 8, 2016 7:50:43 GMT -6
I wouldn't have had the patience to persevere like some of the guys here have, so I never ordered an RM converter, even though the price was great. For me, it's entirely possible that when I finally get enough money together to buy a new computer and the second gen Apollo, those converters might be enough for my needs.
In the interim, while folks were waiting and waiting for the RM boxes, some interesting new products have come to market. If they had been available back when the orders were first made, would that have been a better option?
I've seen rave reviews of the new Dangerous Music converters. I know they're pricey, but they sure seem like a good move if you can afford it, or are there better options at that price point? Also, what about the new Burl Audio B16, would that have gotten you there Tony, or is the RM system just so much more bang for the buck?
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Post by RicFoxx on Apr 8, 2016 8:32:40 GMT -6
My RM is noisy and doesn't work at anything other than 44.1 and when I contacted RM about this he told me it worked perfectly? ?. Unfortunately I don't have the time or energy to follow up right now.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 8, 2016 9:15:55 GMT -6
I would fucking go off on this guy. Tell him to send your damn money back or you will sue him for it.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 8, 2016 10:04:15 GMT -6
I wouldn't have had the patience to persevere like some of the guys here have, so I never ordered an RM converter, even though the price was great. For me, it's entirely possible that when I finally get enough money together to buy a new computer and the second gen Apollo, those converters might be enough for my needs. In the interim, while folks were waiting and waiting for the RM boxes, some interesting new products have come to market. If they had been available back when the orders were first made, would that have been a better option? I've seen rave reviews of the new Dangerous Music converters. I know they're pricey, but they sure seem like a good move if you can afford it, or are there better options at that price point? Also, what about the new Burl Audio B16, would that have gotten you there Tony, or is the RM system just so much more bang for the buck? yeah, it's been out of hand for a lot of us folks, I'm not putting myself above anyone, but i'm not the average converter buyer, i knew i had a long studio build in front of me, and I was willing to wait, and I also knew I was going to mess with them to a large degree, new PSU's, and Dan Deurloo has some great mods he came up with that take them beyond, he has got the jumbo ears to suss out the worth of his ideas, and Jim Williams has his thing as well. I have 32 channels of superbeast DA's to feed my console, I have 4 channels of PCM4222 to go with my 10 channels of BLA FM002 AD channels, they work together now that Avid allows aggregate device configurations via lynx aes16e cards. The RM conversion is nicer sounding than my FM 002 in stock form, which is really saying something because the FM002 sounds stellar, Dan's mods are also really something, and after he's done doing his thing, and i'm done doing mine, this rig will be about as good as anything on the market. So 34 channels of Superbeast DA's, and 4 channels of PCM 4222's for $4,700 or so... is pretty killer price/performance ratio, it would have cost me upwards of $15k to go another route with what I believe would be a less quality sounding result. If Ross had his shit together, he'd be killing it, his business model is just total shit, he should have streamlined, and limited his pieces to 4, Superbeast DAC, PCM 4222, the AES 8 Dac, and the 8x8 AD/DA interface, no options, just the most popular features, then he could've had job houses wave table the PCB's to 90% completion for super cheap, stocked his remaining build parts, put them in great cases, and charged double the price for what would have still been a tremendous bargain. He has absolutely DESTROYED his own reputation, the only thing he has going for him at this point is, whether he was lucky or not? is his layout works if you're lucky enough to get a piece that's not fucked up, they sound absolutely top notch, but that is hardly an endorsement at this point. I think if you're having issues, Dan might start taking them on for mods, and a lot of what he does, especially in the PSU takes care of possible noise problems, but don't hold me to that, ask Dan what Dan will take on. BTW, i'm sick of talking about this shit... mehhh
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Post by scumbum on Apr 8, 2016 10:15:46 GMT -6
I wouldn't have had the patience to persevere like some of the guys here have, so I never ordered an RM converter, even though the price was great. For me, it's entirely possible that when I finally get enough money together to buy a new computer and the second gen Apollo, those converters might be enough for my needs. In the interim, while folks were waiting and waiting for the RM boxes, some interesting new products have come to market. If they had been available back when the orders were first made, would that have been a better option? I've seen rave reviews of the new Dangerous Music converters. I know they're pricey, but they sure seem like a good move if you can afford it, or are there better options at that price point? Also, what about the new Burl Audio B16, would that have gotten you there Tony, or is the RM system just so much more bang for the buck? yeah, it's been out of hand for a lot of us folks, I'm not putting myself above anyone, but i'm not the average converter buyer, i knew i had a long studio build in front of me, and I was willing to wait, and I also knew I was going to mess with them to a large degree, new PSU's, and Dan Deurloo has some great mods he came up with that take them beyond, he has got the jumbo ears to suss out the worth of his ideas, and Jim Williams has his thing as well. I have 32 channels of superbeast DA's to feed my console, I have 4 channels of PCM4222 to go with my 10 channels of BLA FM002 AD channels, they work together now that Avid allows aggregate device configurations via lynx aes16e cards. The RM conversion is nicer sounding than my FM 002 in stock form, which is really saying something because the FM002 sounds stellar, Dan's mods are also really something, and after he's done doing his thing, and i'm done doing mine, this rig will be about as good as anything on the market. So 34 channels of Superbeast DA's, and 4 channels of PCM 4222's for $4,700 or so... is pretty killer price/performance ratio, it would have cost me upwards of $15k to go another route with what I believe would be a less quality sounding result. If Ross had his shit together, he'd be killing it, his business model is just total shit, he should have streamlined, and limited his pieces to 4, Superbeast DAC, PCM 4222, the AES 8 Dac, and the 8x8 AD/DA interface, no options, just the most popular features, then he could've had job houses wave table the PCB's to 90% completion for super cheap, stocked his remaining build parts, put them in great cases, and charged double the price for what would have still been a tremendous bargain. He has absolutely DESTROYED his own reputation, the only thing he has going for him at this point is, whether he was lucky or not? is his layout works if you're lucky enough to get a piece that's not fucked up, they sound absolutely top notch, but that is hardly an endorsement at this point. I think if you're having issues, Dan might start taking them on for mods, and a lot of what he does, especially in the PSU takes care of possible noise problems, but don't hold me to that, ask Dan what Dan will take on. BTW, i'm sick of talking about this shit... mehhh Tony what is your Pro Tools set up , version you running ? How did you get all those PCM 4222's to work with your FM002 ?...... "aggregate device configurations via lynx aes16e cards"
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 8, 2016 10:27:21 GMT -6
yeah, it's been out of hand for a lot of us folks, I'm not putting myself above anyone, but i'm not the average converter buyer, i knew i had a long studio build in front of me, and I was willing to wait, and I also knew I was going to mess with them to a large degree, new PSU's, and Dan Deurloo has some great mods he came up with that take them beyond, he has got the jumbo ears to suss out the worth of his ideas, and Jim Williams has his thing as well. I have 32 channels of superbeast DA's to feed my console, I have 4 channels of PCM4222 to go with my 10 channels of BLA FM002 AD channels, they work together now that Avid allows aggregate device configurations via lynx aes16e cards. The RM conversion is nicer sounding than my FM 002 in stock form, which is really saying something because the FM002 sounds stellar, Dan's mods are also really something, and after he's done doing his thing, and i'm done doing mine, this rig will be about as good as anything on the market. So 34 channels of Superbeast DA's, and 4 channels of PCM 4222's for $4,700 or so... is pretty killer price/performance ratio, it would have cost me upwards of $15k to go another route with what I believe would be a less quality sounding result. If Ross had his shit together, he'd be killing it, his business model is just total shit, he should have streamlined, and limited his pieces to 4, Superbeast DAC, PCM 4222, the AES 8 Dac, and the 8x8 AD/DA interface, no options, just the most popular features, then he could've had job houses wave table the PCB's to 90% completion for super cheap, stocked his remaining build parts, put them in great cases, and charged double the price for what would have still been a tremendous bargain. He has absolutely DESTROYED his own reputation, the only thing he has going for him at this point is, whether he was lucky or not? is his layout works if you're lucky enough to get a piece that's not fucked up, they sound absolutely top notch, but that is hardly an endorsement at this point. I think if you're having issues, Dan might start taking them on for mods, and a lot of what he does, especially in the PSU takes care of possible noise problems, but don't hold me to that, ask Dan what Dan will take on. BTW, i'm sick of talking about this shit... mehhh Tony what is your Pro Tools set up , version you running ? How did you get all those PCM 4222's to work with your FM002 ?...... "aggregate device configurations via lynx aes16e cards" PT 12.4, you have to set it up in the audio midi preferences, and choose aggregate device in playback engine to configure all of it.... I think, it' not in front of me right now.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 8, 2016 11:19:26 GMT -6
That does seem like it's going to be fantastic when you're done Tony. You're following your passion, and when people do that, it brings special results. I bet your rig will be a phenomenal thing. Good luck with it all!.
Me, I'll be thrilled when I can afford a new Apollo :-)
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Post by winetree on Apr 8, 2016 11:36:26 GMT -6
Anyone got their units yet? I'm getting worried. I've emailed them 6 times over the last 8 months, asking very politely for a general time frame and haven't gotten one reply. I'm guessing they view my emails as harassing, but if they had responded to ONE of them, I wouldn't have felt the need to send another. And I promise, the language is very non confrontational. Usually something like, "Hi, just wondering if I can get get a general time frame for my order?" I'm afraid to get confrontational, because I figure that will only cause more delay. This is such a strange place to be for me, but knowing SOMEONE has gotten their order filled recently would leave me with some hope. Thanks guys! He's still there, I've received 5 of my 7 boxes, going into my second year of waiting, I'm pretty pissed about it, but what good is getting nasty with him going to do? He said my last two boxes are put together and he's waiting on some parts, believe me, what ever ur feeling, I've felt, my investment was an uncomfortable $5k! The good news is the boxes I've received sound GREAT! Does that mean I'll be getting my 4222 + Super Beast soon?
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Post by mitchkricun on Apr 8, 2016 17:04:05 GMT -6
Anyone got their units yet? I'm getting worried. I've emailed them 6 times over the last 8 months, asking very politely for a general time frame and haven't gotten one reply. I'm guessing they view my emails as harassing, but if they had responded to ONE of them, I wouldn't have felt the need to send another. And I promise, the language is very non confrontational. Usually something like, "Hi, just wondering if I can get get a general time frame for my order?" I'm afraid to get confrontational, because I figure that will only cause more delay. This is such a strange place to be for me, but knowing SOMEONE has gotten their order filled recently would leave me with some hope. Thanks guys! He's still there, I've received 5 of my 7 boxes, going into my second year of waiting, I'm pretty pissed about it, but what good is getting nasty with him going to do? He said my last two boxes are put together and he's waiting on some parts, believe me, what ever ur feeling, I've felt, my investment was an uncomfortable $5k! The good news is the boxes I've received sound GREAT! Glad to hear they sound great and your rig is coming together Tony! My biggest problem, is that while he's waiting on parts, maybe he can respond to ONE email for a prepaying customer asking a polite and reasonable question. I was actually worried he went out of business. Good to hear he's still there. I knew there was a possibility of a long wait, so I'm cool(ish) with that, but a little communication would go a long way for me. And yeah, if I can get something that's sonically in the same league as the Pure 2 for under $800, it will have been worth it for me. I've basically resigned myself to accepting the ridiculousness of the situation. Thanks for the reply and even temperament!
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Post by RicFoxx on Apr 8, 2016 17:11:38 GMT -6
Dan is getting mine to fix as soon as I get through this health crap!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 20:30:41 GMT -6
Uh, yes, his devices sound marvellous - IF they work. Our converters work still good, and the Superbeast ist beating it all at the moment. If i had to fire up a desk with converters nowadays, i am pretty sure i would use the MOTU 24Ao for the excellent sound and great features as an external interface. Wait - oops, this is exactly what we did and would do again without hesitating in the same situation. At a more than reasonable cost. BUT i think it is more comparable to the most basic 1794a from RM. Which still IS excellent sound. But it does use ESS SABRE DACs instead of the 1794a - pretty close! The Superbeasts OTOH smoke both. The difference may be more on the subtle side because all of them sound good, but the SB has these extra dry low mids and basses and a better stereo image, to die for. This IS due to the ADA-4898 output and the dual path design, i am pretty sure. It's hard to beat because converter and output stage chips alone are simply marvellous for these tasks. One thing is for sure - if you get all the stuff together, Tony, i am sure you have a marvellous sounding analogue rig. On the very clean and dynamic side of things, so you may use your outboard for saturation and grit in a flexible way.
But it really saddens me, how it turned out to be a constant state of waiting for his units... We ordered ours very early and thought it might be a matter of time until he gets prepared for the huge amount of orders for his 1-man business by hiring additional manpower. Well, he did not, and he and his wife still struggle to fulfil their part of the deal in a nearly acceptable time for a customer... It is sad, because it has and had the potential for a really cool business and now is a constant source of trouble and frustration for the customers. It is so sad, because his products are sounding very good at very good pricing...
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Post by dandeurloo on Apr 8, 2016 23:19:37 GMT -6
Smallbutfine, the MOTU 24Ao is a great sounding box stock but even better with some mods. The 24Ao is much easier to mod then the 16a as well. So, you should consider taking a look inside of it. They are great boxes but can be noticeably better. Killer, summing or console DA.
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Post by jin167 on Apr 9, 2016 0:29:43 GMT -6
Smallbutfine, the MOTU 24Ao is a great sounding box stock but even better with some mods. The 24Ao is much easier to mod then the 16a as well. So, you should consider taking a look inside of it. They are great boxes but can be noticeably better. Killer, summing or console DA. Intriguing.. I'm using both 24ao and 24ai and I really like them as they are but if the mod is easy enough then I might do it myself in my free time. Any tips you could provide on how to go about modding these units dandeurloo? Many thanks in advance.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 6:03:22 GMT -6
Smallbutfine, the MOTU 24Ao is a great sounding box stock but even better with some mods. The 24Ao is much easier to mod then the 16a as well. So, you should consider taking a look inside of it. They are great boxes but can be noticeably better. Killer, summing or console DA. Yepp, i already thought about looking into this ... after the 2 yrs full warranty period that we have per law. But maybe we even get a second 24Ao. The first one then maybe becomes the guinea pig for mod. I have no clue what it looks like inside, but i guess it's a very clean concept on the converter side. I can think of the usual suspects of modding - analog PSU beef up, local decoupling up, looking at what opamps they used and if there's a similar alternative with better specs. Or maybe even upgrade the converter chips themselves if there's a better version of the chips available... I most probably would not do anything to the clock. We clock our 24Ao to the Mytek AD, and anyway - whenever i use a 24ch+ box - i will use an AD, on the optical ins. too - which is always the clock master. Cause i don't mix to tape anymore... ;-) But maybe Dan D. is willing to share a hint for the interested modder freaks around here? It seems he got great results with relatively low effort, from what i read between the lines... And sometimes it just takes some *relatively* cheap parts and not much time to get a nice upgrade in sound. This is always more often the case in budget units, where cost simply *have to be cut* somewhere. For this - the AVB series from MOTU is the best *budget converter* for many channels i can think of at the moment....
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Post by dandeurloo on Apr 9, 2016 9:15:09 GMT -6
If you are not a pro I don't recommend working inside the MOTU's. But if you are use to SMT rework you can change out opamps, clock and all the PSU stuff. The units run off of a switching supply that feeds all the digital and analog. It would have been nice to be able to increase the audio rails but that was gonna be another boat load of work. If I remember right, it is possible to do this on the 24Ao but not on the 16a because they have another chip in the audio path that has voltage limitations of around 13v's.
The 24ao sounds really nice either way and is probably the best bang for buck out there. Modding it just takes it to another level that I appreciate.
I will say, be careful. I wiped out my unit twice working on the mods. I thought I was screwed until one of my friends who is another level of genius from most others saved my butt! My classic trying to push things got me into trouble. So, if in doubt don't. There are plenty of simple things that can be done with out pushing as far as I did that will make noticeable differences.
BTW, externally clocking them off of the Black Lion XB clock also made a huge improvement. If you aren't a techie kind of guy maybe try them with the XB clock.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 10:12:18 GMT -6
Since i use no dedicated house clock i use the old Mytek 8x96's clock, which is nice. So far no complaints at all from my side, also with other converters clocked by the Mytek. Using external clock would obviously degrade the clocking of the AD, and right now i don't see me modding the Mytek clock which is the master. :-) I have no fear of SMT work. But i did not much of it. I used to see a lot of techniques and picked up a lot from the repair technicians and engineers that worked next door in the german hi-tech center of the now closed german Moto mobile factory... When i am in the mood, most probably later i can consider doing some modding on this unit.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 10:32:22 GMT -6
Yep, at this form factor and weight they used a switcher, i thought so. But it works really very nice stock, and maybe i would be urged to squeeze more awesomeness out of it, if i had a higher quality console to feed.... Hm, but i also thought about first buying another console for cheap on a good occasion and restaurate it. It was actually really very rewarding fun doing this with the last one...
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Post by noah shain on Apr 10, 2016 11:06:20 GMT -6
Guys, is the Motu 24ai the equal of the Ao?
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Apr 10, 2016 11:13:22 GMT -6
Those of you who prepaid for one of these, i hope you realize that you probably could have paid off a symphony or other Industry-Standard converter via sweetwater and already have had it for months, if not a couple years. It doesn't matter how good this RM converter is IF YOU DONT HAVE IT IN YOUR HANDS! sorry not sorry, but y'all are suckers for giving him your money with hopes of ever being able to use the unit within the next year lol
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 10, 2016 11:52:42 GMT -6
Those of you who prepaid for one of these, i hope you realize that you probably could have paid off a symphony or other Industry-Standard converter via sweetwater and already have had it for months, if not a couple years. It doesn't matter how good this RM converter is IF YOU DONT HAVE IT IN YOUR HANDS! sorry not sorry, but y'all are suckers for giving him your money with hopes of ever being able to use the unit within the next year lol chuck, don't be an asshat 8) and btw, the ones I have smoke the symphony, and not by a little 8)
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 10, 2016 11:52:50 GMT -6
Guys, is the Motu 24ai the equal of the Ao? From what I hear you need to get Dan to let you listen to his Modded box! Knowing of course, you have no problem with modded gear and Dans stuff! In fact I would love to see Dan produce more of his own designs! Even if it meant the DIY world would have to find a New case source! And I love Dan's cases!
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 10, 2016 11:59:13 GMT -6
Guys, is the Motu 24ai the equal of the Ao? I believe the 24AO out specs the 16A, and Dan D mentioned a more robust platform to mod, not as delicate as the 16, he also noted that it doesn't sound as good as the RM stuff. If I had a do over, i'd switch to Logic and go 24Ai/2-24Ao and mod them, the vanilla PT being locked at 32 analog outs is another arbitrary fuck stick from Avid.
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