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Post by easyrider on Mar 18, 2024 13:11:24 GMT -6
I’m no longer using any ITB software for guitar…it’s all amps and pedals…I’m bored of buying plugins… I’ve played guitar for many years….and always had my acoustic guitar to hand…electric guitar was always secondary…had an amp but that was about it….any years past and got back into electric guitar again…went down the rabbit hole of Eleven rack, then Amplitube and PA amp sims…I was told technology has moved on…you can get any amp you want in the box…virtual pedals…a ITB bonanza of choice…! How wrong I was…ITB guitar FX and Amp sims drained me of my soul…on a Sunday morning I would go into my studio space with a coffee in my pants…have to fire up the computer, load the DAW…surf through menu after menu with endless choice of amp or virtual pedal…guitar on my lap…mouse in the other hand..perched on my computer chair staring at the screen choosing a preset and getting mediocre tone….tweaking a tiny knob on a virtual chorus pedal with my mouse…then BOOM the coffee was knocked and went everywhere…. From that moment on I thought WTF am I doing…I’m sat here…menu diving, with a mouse with crap tone and fizz trying to play guitar and hating the experience thinking what I was doing was productive and creative… It was neither…it was a joke…I was a pathetic disgrace of a software junkie thinking I had options when all I had was mediocrity and the paralysis of choice… I’ve not used an amp sim or virtual pedal since…I cleaned up the coffee and decided to go on a quest. A quest to get myself back to when I was a kid with the love of playing that guitar. I began to build my pedal board…I thought long and hard about every pedal I wanted…I bought a Vox AC15 amp head and a 4x12 Marshall cab…I bought a fender Tweed deluxe amp… The pedal board was hard…every pedal was bought for a reason…took me two years to source some pedals…a Boss BF2 from 1984 with Flanger you could chew…a Flanger so 3D it hugged you…Slowly I built that board…and the tone,oh that tone… No updates…no DAW…I can walk into my studio space on a Sunday morning now and be jamming riffs in seconds…I got back to enjoying guitar again…  I have too many plugins…I don’t need more …I have all of UAD, soundtoys , Fabfilter you name it… I bought an Apollo solo to try unison and UAD Neve 1073…I cork sniffed different 1073…I got frustrated.. I would record and then spend hours trying to get the recording to sound like a record…I was faffing with virtual pres, EQ’s comps…a I’m in the process of getting hardware for getting close to the sound going in as possible. Neve DPX Audioscape LA2A Audioscape 1176A The Neve DPX arrived..I spent the weekend recording myself on acoustic guitar with a Neuman mic…BLEW me away…I played all weekend with it! Getting a sound and printing it with this preamp is getting close to what I had imagined in my head….   Have you reworked your recording techniques? Added hardware..been inspired by a purchase that got you closer to what you can hear in your head? I’d love to hear it… |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,092 
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Post by ericn on Mar 18, 2024 13:38:29 GMT -6
Welcome to the world of RGO, welcome to the world of hardware & Neve.
As the ultimate sign of respect I am going to give you the reply I would give to any of the regulars around, again as a sign of respect not ridicule
Duh😁
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Post by chessparov on Mar 18, 2024 13:55:44 GMT -6
Clearly he... Wasn't born to follow.  Chris |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 18, 2024 14:25:54 GMT -6
Not only do I record real tube amps (Tone King Imperial MK2 and Fender Princeton) with a huge (stupidly huge) pedal board.
I've also just bought Congas, Bongos, Doumbek, Udu .... and my best purchase of the year, a TreeWorks Studio Triangle (a thing of percussive beauty)
because I'm bored and had enough of sterile percussion samples.
I'm trying to get away (as funds and space allow) from digital facsimiles of analog processing and instruments.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 18, 2024 14:27:33 GMT -6
Well, I basically went outboard a while back, have the Daking 2 channel trident pre, the stam 76 adf, a stam 67, a good c12 clone, warm 84 clones x2, and just always trqck with ob, never with plugs oh and an egnator Amp with an egnator 1x12 open back cab and another, kinda no name, but one sounds brighter the other darker, so fun to Mike depending on song guitar choice.
Ps and a simpler pedal board, Wa Wa, ocd, warm fuzz and flange, a comp, tremelo
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Post by phdamage on Mar 18, 2024 15:07:01 GMT -6
My go to electric guitar mics are either a Stam tube 87 or Beesneez BU67 paired with either a 4038 or my Oktavamod Apex 205. Larger than life sounds with those. If your amp is loud, the Stam can just go straight into a compressor for level control - you don’t need a pre
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Post by niklas1073 on Mar 18, 2024 15:14:46 GMT -6
I’ve always been a guitar player first. Always played with dedicated gear and committed to it since I was a kid. So the how to have a sound and track something has never in itself been a question or revelation really. That was established over 70 years ago. But to finance a rig that lives up to the expectations recording gear wise has ofcourse had it’s revelationish moments. Mostly the surprises has been in mic choices and solving problems in the capturing end. The pre’s and comps I've picked up are maybe not that mysterious and unexpected. Every guitar I track, acoustic or electric goes thru bae73 and a LA2a or 1176 depending on wanted outcome. They do what they are expected to. Building and committing to a dedicated mixbus has probably been one of the biggest revelations to me. Partially for what it adds, but mostly for what it removes from the equation. It removed the options, and my sound now gets an identity by the flick of a switch. But I do enjoy mixing itb, would not change that for anything. I guess simplifying is the key for me. I’m a one trick pony in many senses, but I suppose if the trick is decent, the sound will be honest and that’s all I’m going for at the end of the day.
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Post by Dan on Mar 18, 2024 15:40:59 GMT -6
First things first. Don’t denigrate amp sims in 2024. Most of the bigger acts use them as a replacement for tube amps because current production tube quality is in the toilet for miniature tubes. They have ways to make them work. Not being able to make them work is a lack of skill and lack of creativity issue at this point. There are guitarists who made ancient antiquated amp sims work for them on many records.
Second for pedals, most of the legendary distortion pedals rely on very specific transistor distortion. Digital has an issue with capturing that and having it sound right. The simpler the circuit, the harder it is to capture. This is one reason clone pedals, recreated digital fx pedals, and most plugin emulations are so bad. A lot of the best recent, flexible affordable pedals are discontinued like the Electro-Harmonix Germanium Overdrive but there’s always replacements.
All that being said, there’s been plugins way better than most pedals for over 20 years: VintageWarmer is still awesome, Inflator is free gain especially after a low pass filter, all of the Waves JJP and Eddie Kramer emulations can act as pedals, all of the flexible distortion plugins (Decapitator, SDRR2, Shattered Glass Phoenix 2 and Inferno, ApShaper, Waves Factory Spectre) make excellent overdrives and you can even build your own amp sims in Fabfilter Saturn and Goodhertz Tupe. Half of the Fuse Vpres make killer pedals. These are not worse than most of the pedals on the market.
All of the tape plugins serve to hide crappy tones. They solve problems on lower fidelity settings and slower speeds where real decks would be unstable or noisy.
For color pres in a pro environment, the purpose is to hide crappy tones or act as another overdrive. You can easily turn something like a Tascam Portastudio pre/line stage or a Daking pre into a pretty high-fidelity pedal. You can turn some interface pres into a tube screamer. Murky equipment can be used beneficially to hide a lot. I wouldn’t buy any of it if you’re a guitarist. I would just improve your tone.
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Post by easyrider on Mar 18, 2024 16:24:45 GMT -6
Every guitar I track, acoustic or electric goes thru bae73 and a LA2a or 1176 depending on wanted outcome. They do what they are expected to. Building and committing to a dedicated mixbus has probably been one of the biggest revelations to me. Partially for what it adds, but mostly for what it removes from the equation. It removed the options, and my sound now gets an identity by the flick of a switch. I can relate to this…removing options I’ve found makes me more driven creatively….with less choice but a satisfying recording I get inspired….I found myself becoming bogged down with choice…I just want a rack I track though…and get on with it… |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 18, 2024 16:41:26 GMT -6
[quote author=" easyrider" source="/post/358920/thread" timestamp="1710789084"…on a Sunday morning I would go into my studio space with a coffee in my pants… [/quote] Maybe the coffee in your pants is the problem? Seems unorthodox. |
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Post by yotonic on Mar 18, 2024 21:09:10 GMT -6
Been in the concert business for many years. And the truth is sim rigs don’t compare to good amp rigs. But in a concert setting some of that difference is lost to the listener and the convenience to the Artist is sometimes a game changer especially if they aren’t an act that carries production and guitar techs.
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Post by ironinthepath on Mar 19, 2024 7:51:57 GMT -6
I’m firmly in the hardware camp, making every reasonable effort to “get it right” on the way in. Hardware can be expensive, but in my experience it holds its value way more than software subscriptions if I want to resell :-)
I can work with plugins and get something I like, but it’s just easier with nice mics/hardware and I’m usually happier with the end result when plugins are just for polishing (mild eq, reverb/delay, for the most part).
I’ve never been fully satisfied with the (limited) amp models I’ve tried but admit each iteration is a bit better than the last, typically.
Welcome to RGO!
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 19, 2024 8:00:43 GMT -6
Sounds pretty good to me
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Post by kelk on Mar 19, 2024 9:26:01 GMT -6
The thing that often doesn't work for me is the fact that all the software amps sound 'good'. I find it hard to place all these perfect tracks when mixing.
I like recording certain guitar parts out of focus, micing at a distance or even just reflections in the room. Using software amps always makes me work harder which feels counter intuitive. I'll take a small amp in a room anyday.
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Post by Dan on Mar 19, 2024 9:53:51 GMT -6
yeah and if it's too clean, plastic, or fizzy, you can always add something. a GOOD PEDAL beforehand, a plug to act as an overdrive before the amp sim, or a plug after. it doesn't have to be particularly new, special or expensive like vintage warmer or u-he satin which usually cost over a hundred dollars. free voxengo tube amp or paid warmifier, klanghelm sdrr2 or mjuc are dirt cheap and sound good but i'm not enamored with the free versions, sound toys (little) radiator (the mic switch can take pesky low mids out too and tone stack is useful on the paid full one), the free fuse v72 is good and the vpre-2c sounds milky that fuse has given away for free before, the free softube vca comp is good, can be set smooth, and takes the top off.
hardware for use after a modeling amp or pedal, you can use a lot of things. it doesn't have to be particularly expensive or boutique. GOOD PEDAL, any of the drawer 196xx or 197xx pieces, art vla or mpa, the fmr pbc-6a (or even rnla but the rnla is unbalanced so a pita), some junky dbx thing that takes the top end off. you don't have to be metallica and use a bae pre.
and you might want to use some smooth compression if you're using an ir or just filtering it instead of using a cab.
a lot of stuff is unsuitable for this thought because it doesn't hide anything or get more distorted in a cool way. and it can be hair splitting, eg i would use the softube british class a for this but i wouldn't really want to use the lindell 80.
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Post by niklas1073 on Mar 19, 2024 10:39:35 GMT -6
I mean great guitar tones can be achieved without amps. If wouldn’t be sitting on a handful of awesome amps I would dive straight on uad amp pedals or an ox and likely be quite happy with the outcome. I cannot pick out one on a track from a amp. The one thing you loose though which is for me an essential part of my tone is the controlled feedback. But I could get by, and I think in many cases that plays no role. Treating that with some classic emulation plugs will get you very very close. Close enough to really make you think if an amp collection and hw units around 20K+ really is worth it. As said, if i wouldn’t sit on it already I would likely take another route.
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Post by easyrider on Mar 19, 2024 11:24:57 GMT -6
Pure workflow for me….I don’t want to use menus….I don’t want to use my phone to control a pedal…I don’t want to use a mouse….I don’t want a screen…I don’t want to sound perfect…I want depth, snarl, wrongness, feedback and flanger I can chew… i want cleanup on my fuzz…I want a real ThorpyFX boneyard…I want to mic my Marshall from 12 foot away while naked…
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Post by chessparov on Mar 19, 2024 11:52:08 GMT -6
[quote author=" easyrider" source="/post/358920/thread" timestamp="1710789084"…on a Sunday morning I would go into my studio space with a coffee in my pants… Maybe the coffee in your pants is the problem? Seems unorthodox. [/quote] I usually just have a T-shirt on instead. And pants too. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 19, 2024 11:56:57 GMT -6
I mic up a Tone King Imperial MK2 head and cab.
I use a 57 into a BAE 1073 and a AEA R92 into a AEA RPQ 500 both into a Cranesong HEDD 192.
The sound is glorious.
Out of interest I demoed the Neural Toneking Imperial MK2 amp sim plugin.
Er, well .... the GUI is good, I'll give it that.
Might be good for some folk (fair enough) - to my ears (as ever with plugins) the all important and critical mids were just not right.
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Post by svart on Mar 19, 2024 11:59:37 GMT -6
Well let me tell you that after decades of tracking guitars in the realspace.. ITB is a godsend. Exactly 2 minutes after trying to get tone with an amp in a room and your ears are so blown out you can't tell the difference between notes.. Then you start moving the mic around and you can't even keep track of where it sounded best as you're running back and forth from cab to console.
Sometimes "get the tone in the room" isn't all it's cracked up to be. Couple that with spending 30 minutes trying to find the crackling noise by going through all the cables and replugging them..
Yeah.
When I want to sit down and work, thumbing through a menu is so much easier and less stressful.
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Post by Dan on Mar 19, 2024 12:07:57 GMT -6
Well let me tell you that after decades of tracking guitars in the realspace.. ITB is a godsend. Exactly 2 minutes after trying to get tone with an amp in a room and your ears are so blown out you can't tell the difference between notes.. Then you start moving the mic around and you can't even keep track of where it sounded best as you're running back and forth from cab to console. Sometimes "get the tone in the room" isn't all it's cracked up to be. Couple that with spending 30 minutes trying to find the crackling noise by going through all the cables and replugging them.. Yeah. When I want to sit down and work, thumbing through a menu is so much easier and less stressful. you can also easily swap things out and tweak them to work instead of being stuck with noisy or fizzy guitar equipment |
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Post by easyrider on Mar 19, 2024 12:41:50 GMT -6
My pedal board is silent….with a power conditioner and high quality power supply…my amps are too…I’m extremely fussy about this…
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Post by easyrider on Mar 19, 2024 12:43:06 GMT -6
Well let me tell you that after decades of tracking guitars in the realspace.. ITB is a godsend. Exactly 2 minutes after trying to get tone with an amp in a room and your ears are so blown out you can't tell the difference between notes.. Then you start moving the mic around and you can't even keep track of where it sounded best as you're running back and forth from cab to console. Sometimes "get the tone in the room" isn't all it's cracked up to be. Couple that with spending 30 minutes trying to find the crackling noise by going through all the cables and replugging them.. Yeah. When I want to sit down and work, thumbing through a menu is so much easier and less stressful. The death of music….instead of getting a good tone…use someone else’s preset…or if the singer is out of tune…use Autotune…. |
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Post by FM77 on Mar 19, 2024 12:47:30 GMT -6
I agree with those who say - keep an open mind.
I use both. I love both.
For decades now. And in 2024? Man they are stunning. But never 'plugins' for me. Only hardware modelers.
Sims, Modelers, Tube amps, SS amps. I have have several custom tube amps made over the years and I have a massive pedal collection. Alot of tube gear here and tape machine I record to.
But man, I really love the BOSS GT-1000 for clean tones. Prior to that I was a Fractal user for a decade. Always with tube amps side by side. UA OX for 3 years but too many software / connection internet glitches. Best day of the year when I sold that.
FM
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Post by svart on Mar 19, 2024 12:58:37 GMT -6
Well let me tell you that after decades of tracking guitars in the realspace.. ITB is a godsend. Exactly 2 minutes after trying to get tone with an amp in a room and your ears are so blown out you can't tell the difference between notes.. Then you start moving the mic around and you can't even keep track of where it sounded best as you're running back and forth from cab to console. Sometimes "get the tone in the room" isn't all it's cracked up to be. Couple that with spending 30 minutes trying to find the crackling noise by going through all the cables and replugging them.. Yeah. When I want to sit down and work, thumbing through a menu is so much easier and less stressful. The death of music….instead of getting a good tone…use someone else’s preset…or if the singer is out of tune…use Autotune…. Music is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. I've never once sounded like the person who created the preset did, but at least you can see what they were going for. But music is about the melody and the arrangement. One could argue that a lot of really badly recorded songs were super popular anyway (looking at you Beatles).. |
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