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Post by thehightenor on Mar 17, 2024 7:33:30 GMT -6
There's more to converters than just the ADA chips. It's truly a thing where 'the whole is greater than the sum of the parts" PSU Analog I/O Clocking It all adds up and everything must wok synergistically towards a single goal of sonically superior and musical sounding PCM conversion. IME there are few designers who really get it spot on, the late great Dave Hill being one of them and I think Lynx make great converters too plus a few other designers. Totally. I think Motu sells itself on the conversion chips. And while it’s good, it’s not great. And the price reflects that. I’m mostly very happy with the Lynx. There are a few quirks that I’m not happy about. You have to pay for your I/O. Want digital I/O, like AES? Gotta pay. Want dedicated monitor outs? Gotta pay. It’s cool that it’s customizable though. Even the interface connection. I mentioned the SD recorder being stock is annoying. It’s hardware I had to pay for that I won’t use. And I feel like that’s tech that won’t age well. Also, there’s something wonky with the headphone outs. Scratchy pots like they’re dirty, but it’s more static sounding. And LOUD. The headphone outs themselves are outstanding. But I had to send it back once already to get these faulty HP outs replaced (and had to pay), and now they are doing it again. But it may be that they just don’t play well with certain headphones, like my Focal Spirit Pros. I tolerate it because I don’t want to pay Lynx again. They won’t waive the fee even though the issue they said they fixed is back. I’ve read of others having the same issue. I need to investigate further to see if it’s persistent across other headphones. Yes, I’ve checked out the Lynx A N range and as I don’t need a computer interface but AES, I have to pay for an add on AES module which then also comes with ADAT and USB 2.0 as those cards are combined! Then there’s the SD recorder and head phone outputs - all more stuff I simply don’t need and I have to pay for. There’s just not a lot of other high quality options around that does AES (I could go with ADAT) The Ferrofish Pulse 16 has ADAT as standard and is 16 Ada’s for £1350 but I’m a bit concerned they’re not going to stand well against my Cranesong HEDD. I think I might have to spend longer saving and go with the Lynx A N range. |
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 17, 2024 10:22:57 GMT -6
Totally. I think Motu sells itself on the conversion chips. And while it’s good, it’s not great. And the price reflects that. I’m mostly very happy with the Lynx. There are a few quirks that I’m not happy about. You have to pay for your I/O. Want digital I/O, like AES? Gotta pay. Want dedicated monitor outs? Gotta pay. It’s cool that it’s customizable though. Even the interface connection. I mentioned the SD recorder being stock is annoying. It’s hardware I had to pay for that I won’t use. And I feel like that’s tech that won’t age well. Also, there’s something wonky with the headphone outs. Scratchy pots like they’re dirty, but it’s more static sounding. And LOUD. The headphone outs themselves are outstanding. But I had to send it back once already to get these faulty HP outs replaced (and had to pay), and now they are doing it again. But it may be that they just don’t play well with certain headphones, like my Focal Spirit Pros. I tolerate it because I don’t want to pay Lynx again. They won’t waive the fee even though the issue they said they fixed is back. I’ve read of others having the same issue. I need to investigate further to see if it’s persistent across other headphones. Yes, I’ve checked out the Lynx A N range and as I don’t need a computer interface but AES, I have to pay for an add on AES module which then also comes with ADAT and USB 2.0 as those cards are combined! Then there’s the SD recorder and head phone outputs - all more stuff I simply don’t need and I have to pay for. There’s just not a lot of other high quality options around that does AES (I could go with ADAT) The Ferrofish Pulse 16 has ADAT as standard and is 16 Ada’s for £1350 but I’m a bit concerned they’re not going to stand well against my Cranesong HEDD. I think I might have to spend longer saving and go with the Lynx A N range. The AES and interface cards are not combined. It just looks like it because of the faceplate cover. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 17, 2024 10:30:17 GMT -6
So is the Hilo supposed to have “better” conversion compared with the Aurora n? I thought I’d read it had pretty much caught up?
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Post by lowlou on Mar 17, 2024 11:27:22 GMT -6
they employ the term "virtually the same" which means everything and nothing.
My understanding is that the Hilo uses two converter chips where the Aurora(n) uses one.
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Post by sean on Mar 17, 2024 11:53:33 GMT -6
Pretty sure the Hilo has more headroom…Aurora N is +20 and Hilo can do up to +24. Which I think is useful for analog processing
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Post by lowlou on Mar 17, 2024 12:54:37 GMT -6
True ! But note that on the Aurora(n) you can now install a "Monitor" extension, up to 2 IN & 4 OUT with increased headroom that equals the +24dBu headroom of the Hilo. www.lynxstudio.com/custom-shop/
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Post by sean on Mar 17, 2024 13:14:08 GMT -6
True ! But note that on the Aurora(n) you can now install a "Monitor" extension, up to 2 IN & 4 OUT with increased headroom that equals the +24dBu headroom of the Hilo. www.lynxstudio.com/custom-shop/ Oh cool that’s wasn’t an option I don’t think when I had my 32x32 Thunderbolt interface |
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Post by nick8801 on Mar 17, 2024 13:16:24 GMT -6
The headphone thing is a known issue on the older n’s. They have to replace that card. Unfortunately they do charge for it. I happened to be installing the 4pre module at the same time, so they were cool and fixed the headphone issue without charging for it.
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 17, 2024 13:20:51 GMT -6
Yes, I’ve checked out the Lynx A N range and as I don’t need a computer interface but AES, I have to pay for an add on AES module which then also comes with ADAT and USB 2.0 as those cards are combined! Then there’s the SD recorder and head phone outputs - all more stuff I simply don’t need and I have to pay for. There’s just not a lot of other high quality options around that does AES (I could go with ADAT) The Ferrofish Pulse 16 has ADAT as standard and is 16 Ada’s for £1350 but I’m a bit concerned they’re not going to stand well against my Cranesong HEDD. I think I might have to spend longer saving and go with the Lynx A N range. The AES and interface cards are not combined. It just looks like it because of the faceplate cover. Ah, ok that’s good news. Thanks. |
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Post by tkaitkai on Mar 17, 2024 17:48:14 GMT -6
Tracked a girl today with the Hilo. Holy crap. That AD is phenomenal. That’s the easiest vocal I’ve ever gotten. Never pinched, never got harsh. Just awesome. With the Apollo AD, it could get strident imo, and the Burl is…well, colored. Hit it hard and it would saturate like it’s supposed to…and while it’s excellent, and better than the Apollo, I still was not super happy with vocals at times. It was Soyuz 017 Tube > Stam 1073 > AudioScape 1178 > Hilo. Dude if you’re up to it, I would love to hear your voice through the Hilo vs. something you did with the Burl. I have a bunch of raw vocals I did with a Hilo. That thing was absolutely crystal clear. Zero dirt, distortion, or other junk. And the tone was phenomenal. My Lavry comes close — tone is equally awesome, but I do get occasional artifacts (I can live with that, though). Also that chain is seriously enviable. Gimme that 1178! |
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Post by OtisGreying on Mar 17, 2024 18:11:57 GMT -6
True ! But note that on the Aurora(n) you can now install a "Monitor" extension, up to 2 IN & 4 OUT with increased headroom that equals the +24dBu headroom of the Hilo. www.lynxstudio.com/custom-shop/ Can anyone expand on the benefits of this? I do alot of analog processing with my Aurora N. Would this also increase the headroom of the converter when recording, so less converter clipping if dealing with a loud source? |
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Post by ironinthepath on Mar 17, 2024 22:11:54 GMT -6
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Post by lowlou on Mar 18, 2024 2:47:52 GMT -6
OtisGreying, post #660 is a significant step toward gear-omniscience ; such post should be dully answered.
The benefit of more headroom is more headroom.
Individual tracks printed at +21dBu, it's fine I guess (they usually don't reach that level here, but maybe with live tracking of high dynamic sources that coud happen) !
When you print submixes or the masterbus of you mix, unless you mitigate cumulative peak building with some sort of compression or clipping, your peak level will mechanically increase, proportionate to the number of tracks that play at the same time.
If you're trying to do your own mastering in the analog domain, then you'll want to print the mix at its loudest possible state , just before your converter clipping.
If you print the mix peaking at -21dBU using a AD converter capable of pushing louder, you effectively lessen you best potential S/N ratio. In the analog world, you still want to record pretty high, but you'll probably read the opposite take on the matter so yeah there's that. But to reach +24dBu you have to have a piece of gear in your chain that can push that high ! And not all gear are made equal in this regard. That's why you see very high headroom on high-end eqs, comp, consoles etc, it's because they deal with high levels. +30dbU for the Vertigo VSM2 for example. You can push the processing inside the VSM2, but you'll have to lower its output volume if it's hitting your AD. To what extent, that depends on your AD specs..! High end gear can deliver splendid sound when you push them a bit too, some are made for that (those big transformers can take a hit and need voltages to blossom) so that could be a factor in your decision to push higher levels in your chain. At these involved stages of the mixing process, most peaks should be under control anyway.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 18, 2024 4:11:31 GMT -6
from the lynx description:
“These modules provide an excellent solution for installations requiring a small number of dedicated I/O’s without the requiring an additional break-out cable. They also offer I/O levels up to +24dBu for extended compatibility with other pro studio equipment. An excellent example application is providing separate monitor outputs when other Aurora(n) line outputs are being fed to a summing mixer or to a patchbay for inserts.
The outputs can easily drive powered monitors and offer precise level control via a low-distortion, digitally-controlled analog attenuator. This analog-domain attenuator maintains a high signal-to-noise ratio over the adjustment range. Monitor speaker protection is provided by output anti-pop relays.
Input trims, output levels, signal routing and mixing are easily controlled from the Aurora(n) front panel or using Lynx’s NControl application on any Windows or Mac computer.
These modules are user-installable either in the top position of module 1 or below the LT-USB or LT-TB3. For Dante and ProTools HD connection methods the LM-A24 or LM-A4 must be installed in the top position of module 1.“
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 18, 2024 6:43:04 GMT -6
Interestingly, I noticed the Ferrofish 16 do a +24dBu option.
That might help bring these budget converters up an extra notch in the specs.
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 18, 2024 6:45:35 GMT -6
from the lynx description: “These modules provide an excellent solution for installations requiring a small number of dedicated I/O’s without the requiring an additional break-out cable. They also offer I/O levels up to +24dBu for extended compatibility with other pro studio equipment. An excellent example application is providing separate monitor outputs when other Aurora(n) line outputs are being fed to a summing mixer or to a patchbay for inserts. The outputs can easily drive powered monitors and offer precise level control via a low-distortion, digitally-controlled analog attenuator. This analog-domain attenuator maintains a high signal-to-noise ratio over the adjustment range. Monitor speaker protection is provided by output anti-pop relays. Input trims, output levels, signal routing and mixing are easily controlled from the Aurora(n) front panel or using Lynx’s NControl application on any Windows or Mac computer. These modules are user-installable either in the top position of module 1 or below the LT-USB or LT-TB3. For Dante and ProTools HD connection methods the LM-A24 or LM-A4 must be installed in the top position of module 1.“ Are all the Lynx Aurora N modules user installable? I see USB and Thunderbolt second hand units, but I need AES or ADAT and I can buy the modules but I thought I read Lynx saying installing a card required a return to base? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 18, 2024 7:11:23 GMT -6
no, often you have to send it to them, but they pay return shipping.
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 18, 2024 7:48:29 GMT -6
no, often you have to send it to them, but they pay return shipping. Not quite true. Most upgrades can be done by the end user. The only modules that cannot be user installed, or removed, are the LM-PRE4 and the DB-ADAT. Those need to be sent in to Lynx Studio, or a Lynx distributor, for installation. I installed my own AES card. It's easy enough. |
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Post by Quint on Mar 18, 2024 7:53:42 GMT -6
The Apollo x16 also has the 24dB capability as well. It's a nice feature to have.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 18, 2024 7:54:12 GMT -6
@indie, Not what they told me when I asked them  Depends on your config and the module! |
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Post by Quint on Mar 18, 2024 7:57:02 GMT -6
Not what they told me when I asked them  |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 18, 2024 8:21:04 GMT -6
no, often you have to send it to them, but they pay return shipping. Not quite true. Most upgrades can be done by the end user. The only modules that cannot be user installed, or removed, are the LM-PRE4 and the DB-ADAT. Those need to be sent in to Lynx Studio, or a Lynx distributor, for installation. I installed my own AES card. It's easy enough. I’d probably prefer ADAT but AES can work for me too so that good to know - thank you. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 18, 2024 8:57:05 GMT -6
Was talking lynx not UA ! |
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Post by okcrecording on Mar 18, 2024 9:43:20 GMT -6
Living the good life over here with a MOTU 16A and Monitor 8 w/ Thunderbolt.
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Post by Quint on Mar 18, 2024 10:56:14 GMT -6
Was talking lynx not UA ! I see now. You didn't quote anybody when you responded, so I thought you were talking to me. |
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