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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 11, 2024 20:17:54 GMT -6
John,
I've got a Head Quantum here, if you are stuck, and need to borrow something for a few days!
It's in another league altogether.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 11, 2024 21:12:16 GMT -6
John will eventually end up with the new 828es, just watch. Lol It’s probably the best all around idea. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 11, 2024 21:14:15 GMT -6
John, I've got a Head Quantum here, if you are stuck, and need to borrow something for a few days! It's in another league altogether. Thanks! Pretty sure I’m picking up a Hilo tomorrow. Your comment on the Hedd doesn’t help the gas, though. |
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Post by aremos on Mar 11, 2024 22:08:21 GMT -6
Hilo! Not only soundwise but am using it also as a monitor controller for 3 sets (2 analog + 1 digital) of speakers & 1 headphone with it's own convertor.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 11, 2024 22:19:54 GMT -6
Hilo! Not only soundwise but am using it also as a monitor controller for 3 sets (2 analog + 1 digital) of speakers & 1 headphone with it's own convertor.
And an AD and DA |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 12, 2024 2:06:40 GMT -6
John, I've got a Head Quantum here, if you are stuck, and need to borrow something for a few days! It's in another league altogether. I’ve yet to use better converters than Crane Song. I think with Dave Hill, it’s the whole package, the psu, the clock, the analog front and rear end and of course the ADA itself. It’s the only converters I’ve ever used where I can hear a noticeable difference on a single isolated vocal track, normally quite difficult to pick out of a selection of ADA’s. It’s a very musical sounding converter - stood the test of time. |
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Post by doubledog on Mar 12, 2024 9:02:50 GMT -6
this is a Pro Audio forum where we nit pick to hell and back. We talk about the final 10 - 20% I'd bet it's more like < 5%  |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 12, 2024 9:34:35 GMT -6
this is a Pro Audio forum where we nit pick to hell and back. We talk about the final 10 - 20% I'd bet it's more like < 5% That's not the spirit, try harder  .. |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Mar 12, 2024 13:39:52 GMT -6
The Apollo and MOTU chat got me into the site. Funny I’d take the Apollo Inputs and the MOTU Outputs. Apollo output is middy and super flattering to guitar and vocal layers. You will undermix and bury them unless they’re loud! But it’s not lofi and has some detail. I don’t like the pres but they’re better than garbage like Scarlets and Behringer. Anything that goes through a MOTU input is warmed over. Doubly so if you use the pres. It loses detail. I don’t like the pres. They really lose detail and get warmer. The outputs are normal tonally but lack fine detail but have some detail. My Apogee Symphony Desktop kills both of them and the pres are much better unless you crank them up. They can’t really take that last 10 db of gain they have while a Grace or Millenia sounds fine pushed to the limit but get a tone thats still cleaner than color pres which are still cool or warmer on guitars until they’re not. The Dakings stay cleanish but get overdriven. The Apogee just gets noisy and sounds overdriven a bit. The Symphonies’ inputs and outputs kill the Quartet’s and the Elements’. They’re just noticeably better but the Element and Quartet wrecked RME and Presonus. Some of the RMEs have less noisy gain even in high gain mode but RME sounds like shit except for a few products like the ADI-2 Pro (it’s not great but it doesn’t totally suck) and the Micstasy (same). Tascam stuff sounds better in the real world to be honest than most RME. RME sounds like prosumer circuits where they removed everything that sounded cool and only left what sounded bad  Dan Perfect solution except it's made by apogee and will be discontinued in 2 years time. And has pretty average drivers. If it weren't for those two things I would definitely have one. As it is, I'm currently using RME PCI card with antelope audio conversion. I would love to have just a small high quality usb interface like the symphony desktop but can't trust appogee on the driver front. The Hilo looks like a pretty cool device. I've never gotten the chance to try one. Maybe one of these days. Good luck! John |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 12, 2024 15:30:57 GMT -6
The Apollo and MOTU chat got me into the site. Funny I’d take the Apollo Inputs and the MOTU Outputs. Apollo output is middy and super flattering to guitar and vocal layers. You will undermix and bury them unless they’re loud! But it’s not lofi and has some detail. I don’t like the pres but they’re better than garbage like Scarlets and Behringer. Anything that goes through a MOTU input is warmed over. Doubly so if you use the pres. It loses detail. I don’t like the pres. They really lose detail and get warmer. The outputs are normal tonally but lack fine detail but have some detail. My Apogee Symphony Desktop kills both of them and the pres are much better unless you crank them up. They can’t really take that last 10 db of gain they have while a Grace or Millenia sounds fine pushed to the limit but get a tone thats still cleaner than color pres which are still cool or warmer on guitars until they’re not. The Dakings stay cleanish but get overdriven. The Apogee just gets noisy and sounds overdriven a bit. The Symphonies’ inputs and outputs kill the Quartet’s and the Elements’. They’re just noticeably better but the Element and Quartet wrecked RME and Presonus. Some of the RMEs have less noisy gain even in high gain mode but RME sounds like shit except for a few products like the ADI-2 Pro (it’s not great but it doesn’t totally suck) and the Micstasy (same). Tascam stuff sounds better in the real world to be honest than most RME. RME sounds like prosumer circuits where they removed everything that sounded cool and only left what sounded bad Dan Perfect solution except it's made by apogee and will be discontinued in 2 years time. And has pretty average drivers. If it weren't for those two things I would definitely have one. As it is, I'm currently using RME PCI card with antelope audio conversion. I would love to have just a small high quality usb interface like the symphony desktop but can't trust appogee on the driver front. The Hilo looks like a pretty cool device. I've never gotten the chance to try one. Maybe one of these days. Good luck! John That's always my fear with Apogee, too. And one of the reasons I've stuck with Metric Halo for so long. Probably the least sexy of all interfaces, but their driver for the new Apple OS is always out before the OS even goes public. |
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Post by ragan on Mar 12, 2024 15:51:03 GMT -6
What are the datapoints that make ya’ll skittish about Apogee?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 12, 2024 16:44:47 GMT -6
Every time I turn off my Symphony desktop or try to disconnect from my M1 MacBook Pro, my computer crashes. I wouldn’t buy again…
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Post by ragan on Mar 12, 2024 17:00:46 GMT -6
Wouldn’t buy the Mac or the Symphony?
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 12, 2024 17:12:24 GMT -6
What are the datapoints that make ya’ll skittish about Apogee? I had quite a few issues with the Duet 2 and MK1 Symphony, the Duet would crash due to firmware issues and the Symphony randomly disconnected a lot. Never had any issues with Metric Halo, Lynx or MOTU. It's not like it stopped me recording but they certainly weren't the most stable devices I've had.. |
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Post by tkaitkai on Mar 12, 2024 17:22:16 GMT -6
The Apollo and MOTU chat got me into the site. Funny I’d take the Apollo Inputs and the MOTU Outputs. Apollo output is middy and super flattering to guitar and vocal layers. You will undermix and bury them unless they’re loud! But it’s not lofi and has some detail. I don’t like the pres but they’re better than garbage like Scarlets and Behringer. Anything that goes through a MOTU input is warmed over. Doubly so if you use the pres. It loses detail. I don’t like the pres. They really lose detail and get warmer. The outputs are normal tonally but lack fine detail but have some detail. My Apogee Symphony Desktop kills both of them and the pres are much better unless you crank them up. They can’t really take that last 10 db of gain they have while a Grace or Millenia sounds fine pushed to the limit but get a tone thats still cleaner than color pres which are still cool or warmer on guitars until they’re not. The Dakings stay cleanish but get overdriven. The Apogee just gets noisy and sounds overdriven a bit. The Symphonies’ inputs and outputs kill the Quartet’s and the Elements’. They’re just noticeably better but the Element and Quartet wrecked RME and Presonus. Agreed, although I kind of had the opposite experience with the Apollo MKI — I thought the inputs sounded grungy and midrangey, while the DA was at least usable (although still quite mid forward). But yeah, the Apogee stuff is fantastic. My Element is the only cheap interface I’ve ever used that actually sounds good. I’ve said it before, but it’s right up there with my Lavry AD, maybe not quite as awesome but still very good. Wipes the floor with the Apollo for sure. Johnkenn The Hilo was one of the best converters I’ve ever used. Got some really amazing recordings with that thing. Definitely interested to hear your thoughts. |
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Post by Dan on Mar 12, 2024 17:49:37 GMT -6
I mean if you want rock solid and great sound, buy Lynx and use Thunderbolt. USB? You're stuck with RME for low latency but the moment you hook up a real converter to it for monitoring or stereo capture, you have higher latency.
The Apogee Symphony Desktop is certainly much more stable than MOTU and Fuckusrite for me. The drivers just work on Windows now for Apogee USB drivers after they've been out for a few months and iron out the bugs. If this breaks, I might buy the Neve 88M when it's getting fixed just to try it.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 12, 2024 18:03:05 GMT -6
Wouldn’t buy the Mac or the Symphony? The Symphony. Ran a MOTU rig flawlessly for years, got a new computer and Symphony Desktop and have had all sorts of issues. Sure, it could be the machine, but I blame the Apogee. |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 12, 2024 18:05:58 GMT -6
I mean if you want rock solid and great sound, buy Lynx and use Thunderbolt. USB? You're stuck with RME for low latency but the moment you hook up a real converter to it for monitoring or stereo capture, you have higher latency. The Apogee Symphony Desktop is certainly much more stable than MOTU and Fuckusrite for me. The drivers just work on Windows now for Apogee USB drivers after they've been out for a few months and iron out the bugs. If this breaks, I might buy the Neve 88M when it's getting fixed just to try it. It depends what platform your on, MOTU works great with MAC over Thunderbolt but their windows drivers are something to be desired. I had crap loads of buffer drop outs with Pro Tools on Windows, RME / Lynx works on everything as you said. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 12, 2024 18:26:38 GMT -6
What are the datapoints that make ya’ll skittish about Apogee? For me it's just that they seem to abandon interfaces fairly often - not the Symphony II so much: that seems to have been around for awhile and still going strong. But there have been several times now over the years where I went to buy an Apogee interface only to discover that they'd recently discontinued it. Happened with an Element, an Ensemble, a Duet, and an original Symphony. That's really my only hesitation - I've always liked the Apogee sound.
For better or for worse, Metric Halo is at the other end of the spectrum: Every interface they've ever released going back 20+yrs is still for sale and fully updatable to modern specs, with new drivers for every interface every time there's a MacOS release. Maybe MH would be more advanced if they let the original 2882 go instead of spending development and research time on manufacturing user-replaceable cards to update an interface from 2002, but I do appreciate their attempts to keep boxes out of landfills rather than sell slightly different versions of the same interface every so often (here's looking at you, MOTU 828).
Other than that, no shade thrown at Apogee over here.
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Post by Dan on Mar 12, 2024 18:45:38 GMT -6
I mean if you want rock solid and great sound, buy Lynx and use Thunderbolt. USB? You're stuck with RME for low latency but the moment you hook up a real converter to it for monitoring or stereo capture, you have higher latency. The Apogee Symphony Desktop is certainly much more stable than MOTU and Fuckusrite for me. The drivers just work on Windows now for Apogee USB drivers after they've been out for a few months and iron out the bugs. If this breaks, I might buy the Neve 88M when it's getting fixed just to try it. It depends what platform your on, MOTU works great with MAC over Thunderbolt but their windows drivers are something to be desired. I had crap loads of buffer drop outs with Pro Tools on Windows, RME / Lynx works on everything as you said. The drivers were never stable on Reaper either. It's definitely the MOTU drivers on Windows. I cannot recommend it. RME and Lynx work on everything. I wonder how good the thunderbolt drivers are on the DAD AX Center / AX64 / MTRX II |
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Post by Dan on Mar 12, 2024 18:48:06 GMT -6
What are the datapoints that make ya’ll skittish about Apogee? For me it's just that they seem to abandon interfaces fairly often - not the Symphony II so much: that seems to have been around for awhile and still going strong. But there have been several times now over the years where I went to buy an Apogee interface only to discover that they'd recently discontinued it. Happened with an Element, an Ensemble, a Duet, and an original Symphony. That's really my only hesitation - I've always liked the Apogee sound.
For better or for worse, Metric Halo is at the other end of the spectrum: Every interface they've ever released going back 20+yrs is still for sale and fully updatable to modern specs, with new drivers for every interface every time there's a MacOS release. Maybe MH would be more advanced if they let the original 2882 go instead of spending development and research time on manufacturing user-replaceable cards to update an interface from 2002, but I do appreciate their attempts to keep boxes out of landfills rather than sell slightly different versions of the same interface every so often (here's looking at you, MOTU 828).
Other than that, no shade thrown at Apogee over here.
Firewire and the cheaper Thunderbolt chipsets are all gone so a lot of Apogee products got discontinued. The Element 88 was incredibly bang for buck but only was on the market for about 3 years. The same with RME UFX+, most of the cheaper Thunderbolt Focusrites, and some of the Presonus Quantums. |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 12, 2024 18:50:45 GMT -6
It depends what platform your on, MOTU works great with MAC over Thunderbolt but their windows drivers are something to be desired. I had crap loads of buffer drop outs with Pro Tools on Windows, RME / Lynx works on everything as you said. The drivers were never stable on Reaper either. It's definitely the MOTU drivers on Windows. I cannot recommend it. RME and Lynx work on everything. I wonder how good the thunderbolt drivers are on the DAD AX Center / AX64 / MTRX II You know what, for all the flack Avid get I've never had any issues with their drivers or interfaces (well besides one but I bought it straight after release and once it had been replaced worked without a hitch for years). I'd say it's about the same as RME or Lynx.. |
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Post by Dan on Mar 12, 2024 18:51:58 GMT -6
The drivers were never stable on Reaper either. It's definitely the MOTU drivers on Windows. I cannot recommend it. RME and Lynx work on everything. I wonder how good the thunderbolt drivers are on the DAD AX Center / AX64 / MTRX II You know what, for all the flack Avid get I've never had any issues with their drivers or interfaces (well besides one but I bought it straight after release and once it had been replaced worked without a hitch for years). I'd say it's about the same as RME or Lynx.. Mbox sucked. Lynx is unquestionably better built and higher end than the AVID made/designed ones and RME interfaces I've heard. |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 12, 2024 18:53:13 GMT -6
You know what, for all the flack Avid get I've never had any issues with their drivers or interfaces (well besides one but I bought it straight after release and once it had been replaced worked without a hitch for years). I'd say it's about the same as RME or Lynx.. Mbox sucked. Which one? There's been a few of them over the years, the Digi Mbox yeah.. The Pro Tools Mbox Pro was a cracking little interface. |
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Post by Dan on Mar 12, 2024 18:56:15 GMT -6
Which one? There's been a few of them over the years, the Digi Mbox yeah.. The Pro Tools Mbox Pro was a cracking little interface. Was that FireWire? The USB ones weren't that hot. |
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