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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 2, 2024 21:01:29 GMT -6
I could probably drum up and old tune of mine I cut...then anyone is welcome to take shots at it...
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 2, 2024 21:08:43 GMT -6
I agree. I think the more we chase perfection the more we realize we actually don't like it. We like a certain amount of noise, distortion, etc.. Not sure why but it seems like our brains are hardwired to enjoy the imperfections. It's like removing all the breaths from a vocal, at one point that seemed like a good idea to "clean it up" but then our brains are like..."why isn't that person breathing?" 😁 I’m babbling and going off topic, but this one crutch I’ve got to let go of - making everything perfect. Quantizing everything, tuning etc. It’s psychologically tough though. If I hear an untuned vocal of mine, it will irk me to death. It’s like I hear the imperfections that no one else gives a shit about…but then I tune it and I guess I feel safer because psychologically I think it IS better…but taking out those imperfections and doing that “fixing” on every track really starts to add up and takes the soul out. I need to focus on being a better player so I don’t have to rely on that stuff to save me. Wife and I were watching the Kennedy Center Honors the other night and I was really, really bothered that every performance had been tuned to hell in post. It just felt fake and inauthentic, you know? Ok…maybe they didn’t tune Ben Platt. That dude is freakishly talented. Might not have been post, Avid and any digital console with Soundgrid has Autotune, lots of guys use it all the time, me I just use it to make Karaoke survivable! Also I always tell people my job on a live gig isn’t to make it perfect, it’s to make you not notice all the screw ups because it will never be perfect. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 2, 2024 23:08:24 GMT -6
How do they use that live without the possibility of it going crazy autotuney on wrong notes?
Reminds me of this atrocity...My GOD
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 3, 2024 6:47:26 GMT -6
Frankly, if I had to use auto tune live I'd simply give up being a vocalist.
Some folk have zero pride I guess.
Plus, my band would of left me years ago!
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Post by poppaflavor on Jan 3, 2024 13:36:45 GMT -6
I agree. I think the more we chase perfection the more we realize we actually don't like it. We like a certain amount of noise, distortion, etc.. Not sure why but it seems like our brains are hardwired to enjoy the imperfections. It's like removing all the breaths from a vocal, at one point that seemed like a good idea to "clean it up" but then our brains are like..."why isn't that person breathing?" 😁 Ha! Yes I really like that bit about people not breathing. I tried it with gates during tracking and also with culling clips after the fact and both just made me reach for an extra breath as I listened. Breaths've got to be there, but I'm not good at ensuring they fit well yet. Regarding Auto-Tune, I think it's an Uncanny Valley thing. If it's too much then I just think well that's just T-Pain doing his thing. If there's none at all and it's not hitting the mark I just think well that's just character and delivery. There's some spots there in the middle of that spectrum though that are *really* off-putting. Freakishly bad. |
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Post by rowmat on Jan 3, 2024 16:03:11 GMT -6
Honestly I think it's all the stuff that *isn't* there on samples that makes them feel less lively. In a mix context, there's tons of stuff that's in the mix that doesn't need to be. Lots of background noise and extra stuff like fret noises or room noises that gets blended into a mix that would affect how things like compressors would work. If you were able to remove these things without changing the audio that you want to keep, I'd think the mix would sound less full even though any single piece of unwanted noise wouldn't necessarily be noticed on it's own. I think it's why folks say that modern recordings have less feeling. They're edited to the point where there isn't a single out of place piece of audio. I agree. I think the more we chase perfection the more we realize we actually don't like it. We like a certain amount of noise, distortion, etc.. Not sure why but it seems like our brains are hardwired to enjoy the imperfections. It's like removing all the breaths from a vocal, at one point that seemed like a good idea to "clean it up" but then our brains are like..."why isn't that person breathing?" 😁 I felt some of the best stuff we recorded (especially the last few albums) were all for the better with the imperfections. The creaking piano seat, the odd squeaky acoustic fretting, the inhale just before the final line, the odd loose timing. The majority of our tracking was done with the band/session musicians playing live interacting with each other rather than a click track or in isolation. The artists who thought their best performance was the most perfect often kept chasing it until they disappeared in a sea of takes, overdubs, drop-ins and frustration for everybody. |
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Post by chessparov on Jan 3, 2024 16:06:20 GMT -6
I prefer the "If I Fell"/Beatles' original release. Paul's voice slightly cracking, gave it a certain charm. Thankfully the subtle "background cough" in "Wendy"/Beach Boys AFAIK was left untouched.  Chris |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 16:50:47 GMT -6
I have a feeling you’re being too hard on yourself  I’m by no means an expert on pop production but I’ve done some work in the genre and produced lots of songs that aren’t “pop” per se, but borrow heavily from the pop aesthetic. If you ever want a second set of ears, someone to bounce ideas off of, or some friendly advice let me know. I’d gladly listen to your tracks and give you some constructive feedback. I really do appreciate that and vice versa. If you ever go ear blind and need a second set, I have a decent monitoring setup & at least I'm good at finding issues in a mix. Anything I can do to help really .. |
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Post by drsax on Jan 3, 2024 18:00:36 GMT -6
I’m just opening up the conversation because maybe one of you guys has a better approach than I do… I’ve mixed a bunch of stuff for a guy overseas…he obviously liked what I’ve done because he keeps coming back. Apparently he recommended me to a friend who I attempted to mix something for…(this was my Cubase 13 disaster/crash/had-to-remix). He’s said to me multiple times, “I want it to sound more professional.” This is a home project. Fake strings, fake drums, fake guitar, fake boys choir…well, fake everything besides the vocals. I’ve found - and tell me if I’m wrong on this - there’s only so much that can be improved when you are working with canned sounds. The drums are clips of different “big boom” cinematic type stuff. The piano is his fake piano sound (sounds fine)… I’ve definitely made everything sound objectively better, but “this is still not what I had in mind.” This was after I sent him my take, he didn’t like it and so he then wanted me to “just make my (his) mix sound more professional.” So, he sent a mix and I followed his lead. Still not to his liking. So at this point, I’ve spent waaaaaay more time on it than it’s worth. I thought it would be fun to have him send his Cubase mix and I’d try it in the new C13. As you might have seen, I took about 5 hours playing around in Cubase - just learning stuff as I went. Really good practice in a daw I haven’t used in a long time. Then at the end of that five hours, it crashes at the end of the bounce and I lost everything. (Didn’t realize auto save was disabled.) So then I remixed the next day - only took about an hour because I had a save from about a quarter of the way through. Sent and “not what he had in mind.” This is obviously setting me up for failure, so I’m just not going to put anymore time into it. I don’t think I’m awful - I just think this is just a case of him having some crazy expectations. I replied back that at this point I just don’t know what else to do, so I’ll take this as a loss and he can find someone that can give him what he’s looking for. Mostly because I’m just not willing to put any more time into this. It’s not going to get better, just different. Life’s too short. How do you guys handle situations like this? In the past I would have suffered through it…but it’s just not worth it IMO. sorry you’re dealing with this Johnkenn - It hasn’t happened in a while here but my approach is to offer to refund their money and let them know we’re not a good match. Often when I offer the refund, they change their tune completely and become much more agreeable. And even if they don’t, I get my peace back. In my world, that is worth more than any paycheck. |
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