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Post by Ward on Oct 19, 2023 13:31:29 GMT -6
Low price cloning 101, if you can’t nail the tone bring out distinguishing factors x10 it will sell in a 10 min GC demo, not enough $ to justify a gearpimp spending any more time with the customer. And in my head I hear . . . "Shah, like yeah brah. . . . This is like Warm audio has some amazing R&D team that disassemble junk from just listening to it, and clone it totally exact and make copies for the rest of us at like 75% or maybe even half off the OG price, on God, no cap!" |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2023 13:45:05 GMT -6
Low price cloning 101, if you can’t nail the tone bring out distinguishing factors x10 it will sell in a 10 min GC demo, not enough $ to justify a gearpimp spending any more time with the customer. And in my head I hear . . . "Shah, like yeah brah. . . . This is like Warm audio has some amazing R&D team that disassemble junk from just listening to it, and clone it totally exact and make copies for the rest of us at like 75% or maybe even half off the OG price, on God, no cap!" Warm is the wet dream of Gearpimps that have cultivated a major client base at a certain income level. About a year ago I was joking I’m waiting to see Warm do what SSL should have done a SSL 4K clone made in China at $ 9K for 24 ch. Now I’m waiting to see it. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2023 13:50:36 GMT -6
I wonder how tube tech is reacting to these clones. Will tube tech be able to lower the price of a cl1b? I would love it if a tube tech rep became an RGO participant. I forget where they are based, but my guess is since this is the first time someone cloned one of their products, lots of time on the phone with their lawyers. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2023 15:06:32 GMT -6
I wonder how tube tech is reacting to these clones. Will tube tech be able to lower the price of a cl1b? I would love it if a tube tech rep became an RGO participant. I’m bored waiting for my wife to get me out of the hospital so I sent Brad Lundy an email about this thread. 😁 |
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Post by skav on Oct 19, 2023 16:19:46 GMT -6
Sounds like a useful compressor to me, although not as smooth and fine as the Dane.
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Post by smashlord on Oct 19, 2023 19:30:42 GMT -6
I think my observations from the videos are the same as some other posters... the Warm is brighter and seems to bring out the sibilance a bit more compared to the OG, which seems smoother up top. I also noticed, like Colt in his video, that the Warm was a bit boxier in the low mids.
That said, I think you can make music with either.
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Post by seawell on Oct 19, 2023 19:57:22 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2023 21:29:31 GMT -6
I think my observations from the videos are the same as some other posters... the Warm is brighter and seems to bring out the sibilance a bit more compared to the OG, which seems smoother up top. I also noticed, like Colt in his video, that the Warm was a bit boxier in the low mids. That said, I think you can make music with either. My lord of smash I don’t disagree at all, but honestly I can make a decent sounding record with a used DBX 160a, as well Nothing Warm makes will impede you it’s just when someone goes to this much trouble to make it appear to be a Tubetech it really has to bring more than that and the hype. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Oct 20, 2023 1:57:59 GMT -6
Yall are crazy if you think the Warm is brighter than the TT one. The TT has WAY more sizzle in it. The Warm is much well, warmer sounding. They don't sound the same. But the warm doesn't sound that bad to me. Sounds more like an la2a to me with a bit of sizzle on it. Perfectly usable that's for sure.
Also wtf Warrens video sucks ass. The piano is way to damn loud. WTH?
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Post by smashlord on Oct 20, 2023 6:41:15 GMT -6
I think my observations from the videos are the same as some other posters... the Warm is brighter and seems to bring out the sibilance a bit more compared to the OG, which seems smoother up top. I also noticed, like Colt in his video, that the Warm was a bit boxier in the low mids. That said, I think you can make music with either. My lord of smash I don’t disagree at all, but honestly I can make a decent sounding record with a used DBX 160a, as well Nothing Warm makes will impede you it’s just when someone goes to this much trouble to make it appear to be a Tubetech it really has to bring more than that and the hype. I understand. I look at it like this: I haven't seen a price data yet, but I imagine its going to be about $1K or under. That is 1/4 of the price (if you can get one) of the TT. I think that needs to be considered. When I worked in sales many moons ago, there was a saying: "Everything has a value at the right price". One thing I always find strange is how Warm is routinely lambasted while a company like Audioscape can do no wrong. They both more or less have a similar goal...make reproductions of classic units at a more accessible price. To achieve that, there are "compromises" (I put in quotations because some things, like PCB vs. hand wired can be debatable whether or not they are compromises). That's OK. I think we all just need to temper our expectations and evaluate the gear on its on merits in terms of "is this good value for the money". |
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Post by Ward on Oct 20, 2023 7:11:34 GMT -6
Yall are crazy if you think the Warm is brighter than the TT one. The TT has WAY more sizzle in it. The Warm is much well, warmer sounding. They don't sound the same. But the warm doesn't sound that bad to me. Sounds more like an la2a to me with a bit of sizzle on it. Perfectly usable that's for sure. Also wtf Warrens video sucks ass. The piano is way to damn loud. WTH? Hmmm.... so we're all wrong, and you're right? K. Got it. Respectfully disagree. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 20, 2023 7:15:19 GMT -6
As an aside but an important one . . . That has got to be some of the WORST recorded audio I have heard on a YouTube video since 2005. Didn't anybody proof that and notice it was boxy and overloading? Oh dear... |
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Post by ericn on Oct 20, 2023 7:22:12 GMT -6
My lord of smash I don’t disagree at all, but honestly I can make a decent sounding record with a used DBX 160a, as well Nothing Warm makes will impede you it’s just when someone goes to this much trouble to make it appear to be a Tubetech it really has to bring more than that and the hype. I understand. I look at it like this: I haven't seen a price data yet, but I imagine it’s going to be about $1K or under. That is 1/4 of the price (if you can get one) of the TT. I think that needs to be considered. When I worked in sales many moons ago, there was a saying: "Everything has a value at the right price". One thing I always find strange is how Warm is routinely lambasted while a company like Audioscape can do no wrong. They both more or less have a similar goal...make reproductions of classic units at a more accessible price. To achieve that, there are "compromises" (I put in quotations because some things, like PCB vs. hand wired can be debatable whether or not they are compromises). That's OK. I think we all just need to temper our expectations and evaluate the gear on its on merits in terms of "is this good value for the money". Some of us have been pretty critical of all 3, particularly buisness models, why just ask Josh 😁 Part of the reason I mentioned buisness models is it makes a huge difference in what you can put in the box for the dollar, funny enough the only one of the 3 I have owned products from is Warm, a 1176 and LA2. Yes for the $, but I just wasn’t personally impressed enough to keep either, but better than Uli’s KT. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 20, 2023 7:31:40 GMT -6
Some of us have been pretty critical of all 3, particularly business models, why just ask Josh 😁 ^He tells the truth^ All 3 have particular strengths as well. 1. Warm - marketing. 2. Audioscape - quality control and attention to detail. Improves on original. 3. Stam - vision. Sees all strengths and weaknesses. Improves on original. |
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Post by enlav on Oct 20, 2023 8:32:54 GMT -6
Trying to be as impartial as possible, I think the other thing Warm has going for it is just pure availability. I think aside from some rare occasions, you can probably go to <insert store of your choice> and buy a Warm clone the same day you decide you want it.
That said, I own 4 pieces of Audioscape, 2 of Stam with 1 on pre-order; just to state I'm not playing favorites.
Yall are crazy if you think the Warm is brighter than the TT one. The TT has WAY more sizzle in it. The Warm is much well, warmer sounding. They don't sound the same. But the warm doesn't sound that bad to me. Sounds more like an la2a to me with a bit of sizzle on it. Perfectly usable that's for sure. Also wtf Warrens video sucks ass. The piano is way to damn loud. WTH? I agree, in terms of strict tone, I feel like the Warm has more low end... I think the sibilance is coming from the actual attack or release characteristics that differ. I might be crazy, but now I don't remember what the vocals sounded like DRY in Warren's video, which would probably better inform my opinions on it. I don't particularly find the original to be overly bright for the sources, but I'm not a fan of that saturation on that first vocal (manual).
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Post by ericn on Oct 20, 2023 8:54:36 GMT -6
Trying to be as impartial as possible, I think the other thing Warm has going for it is just pure availability. I think aside from some rare occasions, you can probably go to <insert store of your choice> and buy a Warm clone the same day you decide you want it.
That said, I own 4 pieces of Audioscape, 2 of Stam with 1 on pre-order; just to state I'm not playing favorites.
Yall are crazy if you think the Warm is brighter than the TT one. The TT has WAY more sizzle in it. The Warm is much well, warmer sounding. They don't sound the same. But the warm doesn't sound that bad to me. Sounds more like an la2a to me with a bit of sizzle on it. Perfectly usable that's for sure. Also wtf Warrens video sucks ass. The piano is way to damn loud. WTH? I agree, in terms of strict tone, I feel like the Warm has more low end... I think the sibilance is coming from the actual attack or release characteristics that differ. I might be crazy, but now I don't remember what the vocals sounded like DRY in Warren's video, which would probably better inform my opinions on it. I don't particularly find the original to be overly bright for the sources, but I'm not a fan of that saturation on that first vocal (manual).
Of course tone wise a lot of this could have to do with tube choices, I’ll be blunt does anyone not believe the tubes shipped with the Warm have as much or more to do with price point than tone. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 20, 2023 9:21:24 GMT -6
Sorry to quote you a second time, and I swear I'm not picking on you or anyone . . . Also wtf Warrens video sucks ass. The piano is way to damn loud. WTH? I once found Warren off-putting until I spent a little time with him. He actually knows his stuff and is just kind of British, aloof and flippant, but has created a great channel with a lot of attention drawn to tools of our trade that needed to be done . Yeah, the piano is too damned loud. Probably because it sounds good. And there's always that mix engineer's desire to make it sound 'gooder' |
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Post by mike on Oct 20, 2023 19:08:35 GMT -6
Of course tone wise a lot of this could have to do with tube choices, I’ll be blunt does anyone not believe the tubes shipped with the Warm have as much or more to do with price point than tone. Good point Eric, tube choice in any tube gear I've ever used always made a difference. I would guess Warm is using JJ's, ....... .......but can anyone educate me on what tubes in the audio path were used in the Tube-Tech both back in the day and currently? |
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Post by ericn on Oct 20, 2023 19:11:37 GMT -6
Of course tone wise a lot of this could have to do with tube choices, I’ll be blunt does anyone not believe the tubes shipped with the Warm have as much or more to do with price point than tone. Good point Eric, tube choice in any tube gear I've ever used always made a difference. I would guess Warm is using JJ's, ....... .......but can anyone educate me on what tubes in the audio path were used in the Tube-Tech both back in the day and currently? I don’t know, that’s why we keep Bowie happy😁 |
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Post by mike on Oct 20, 2023 19:32:52 GMT -6
Good point Eric, tube choice in any tube gear I've ever used always made a difference. I would guess Warm is using JJ's, ....... .......but can anyone educate me on what tubes in the audio path were used in the Tube-Tech both back in the day and currently? I don’t know, that’s why we keep Bowie happy😁 electro harmonix maybe since the original design is 80's and JJ's weren't around then I'd guess.........wonder how common it is for owners to use NOS Tele's or something else in them..... |
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Post by skav on Oct 20, 2023 22:36:53 GMT -6
Of course tone wise a lot of this could have to do with tube choices, I’ll be blunt does anyone not believe the tubes shipped with the Warm have as much or more to do with price point than tone. Good point Eric, tube choice in any tube gear I've ever used always made a difference. I would guess Warm is using JJ's, ....... .......but can anyone educate me on what tubes in the audio path were used in the Tube-Tech both back in the day and currently? I'd be surprised if a simple change of tube would give it the smoothness of or like the original. |
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Post by christopher on Oct 20, 2023 23:19:08 GMT -6
I kinda like the warm in its own way. I don’t really get the CL1b vibe? It seems to nail the blue color of the 19” enclosure though. I’d use the warm if it was there. Kinda weird if it’s true to the original.. why so different? A good tube comp is gonna cost around that price anyway. If it’s different.. why try to match the looks? It’s like night and day
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 21, 2023 1:29:33 GMT -6
The downside/irony of cloning is the sound comparison argument when likely two of the originals don’t sound identical either? Would the Warm be useful as a comp: I’d say yes. Since, its built to a price point, would I be contacting bowie and rollin tubes: yup. Working with it and exploring its range and characteristics, would be part of figuring out how you want to apply it. I find I am disappointed in most videos, low wow sonic factor, lots of eye kandi, other than Josh’s chandlar ones, which leave me thinking, how much can I get for a kidney ?  |
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Post by christophert on Oct 21, 2023 4:52:50 GMT -6
Buy one second hand, get your tech (or if you are skilled) to gut and completely throw out the innards, and rebuild a great comp, with excellent caps etc - with tubes from Bowie. The metalwork, meters, and power cord should be OK |
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Post by paulcheeba on Oct 21, 2023 8:05:51 GMT -6
Yes this is the biggest load of horse ish ever. He does nothing for the super product this high end company are trying to market. God bless Warm! |
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