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Post by mike on Oct 21, 2023 8:38:09 GMT -6
Good point Eric, tube choice in any tube gear I've ever used always made a difference. I would guess Warm is using JJ's, ....... .......but can anyone educate me on what tubes in the audio path were used in the Tube-Tech both back in the day and currently? I'd be surprised if a simple change of tube would give it the smoothness of or like the original. While I'd agree a tube change won't make it identical to the original because of other factors, I've never heard tube changes in any Valve gear not make a difference IME. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 21, 2023 9:24:00 GMT -6
The downside/irony of cloning is the sound comparison argument when likely two of the originals don’t sound identical either? SNIP The CL1Bs are surprisingly consistent from unit to unit |
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Post by ericn on Oct 21, 2023 9:45:38 GMT -6
I'd be surprised if a simple change of tube would give it the smoothness of or like the original. While I'd agree a tube change won't make it identical to the original because of other factors, I've never heard tube changes in any Valve gear not make a difference IME. It will never be identical, but if there is something tone wise that you want from a CL1B and the Warm doesn’t deliver experimentation with tube choice and guidance is certainly the easiest and probably most affordable way to move the needle. |
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Post by skav on Oct 21, 2023 10:04:13 GMT -6
"The WA-1B accurately recreates world-class Scandinavian compression combining smooth tube-optical warmth with precision controls"
'accurately' Oxford Dictionary definition : "in a way that is correct in all details; exactly.
"we are simply unable to predict long-term trends accurately""
Cambridge dictionary definition: "in a way that is correct, exact, and without any mistakes: The plans should be drawn as accurately as possible."
This marketing is disgusting, when it obviously does not perform the same as what it claims to accurately copy.
INaccurate untruthful language. Its a shame.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 21, 2023 10:05:07 GMT -6
The downside/irony of cloning is the sound comparison argument when likely two of the originals don’t sound identical either? SNIP The CL1Bs are surprisingly consistent from unit to unit Fair enuff, but atypical with vintage gear ? my main point was working with the sound of the Warm or , of course, peeps can buy whatever comp they want ! |
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Post by notneeson on Oct 21, 2023 10:48:01 GMT -6
Some pretty intense opinions about a box no one has used.
I have to give Warm props for using Lundahls though. Nothing wrong with Cinemag but it’s not the Tube Tech sound.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 21, 2023 10:52:22 GMT -6
The CL1Bs are surprisingly consistent from unit to unit Fair enuff, but atypical with vintage gear ? my main point was working with the sound of the Warm or , of course, peeps can buy whatever comp they want ! As a current in production product it’s really hard to call the Tubetech vintage. Of course if you consider it vintage what are you sayin about some of us 😁 |
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Post by skav on Oct 21, 2023 10:59:05 GMT -6
Some pretty intense opinions about a box no one has used. I have to give Warm props for using Lundahls though. Nothing wrong with Cinemag but it’s not the Tube Tech sound. There's several reviews and head to heads vs the original on youtube. None of them are close to the smoothness of the Dane. I don't own the original, I wish I could get the performance of the original for this price, the unit visually looks good, tempting IMO. I don't have an investment with either side, but I hate to see people intentionally misled. I would Hope I am wrong, that would be awesome, but I don't think I am. Could very well be a useful compressor, I think it might, but it's markedet as being exactly like the TT... That's dishonest. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 21, 2023 11:03:40 GMT -6
1987 launch ?, i thought it was older, still 36 years, great if they have had a largely consistent sound: speaks to their build quality .
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Post by notneeson on Oct 21, 2023 11:13:41 GMT -6
Some pretty intense opinions about a box no one has used. I have to give Warm props for using Lundahls though. Nothing wrong with Cinemag but it’s not the Tube Tech sound. There's several reviews and head to heads vs the original on youtube. None of them are close to the smoothness of the Dane. I don't own the original, I wish I could get the performance of the original for this price, the unit visually looks good, tempting IMO. I don't have an investment with either side, but I hate to see people intentionally misled. I would Hope I am wrong, that would be awesome, but I don't think I am. Could very well be a useful compressor, I think it might, but it's markedet as being exactly like the TT... That's dishonest. I put 0 stock in YouTube shootouts with the exception of Seawell, simply because he’s one of us. The only way to know a piece of gear is to use it. Add to which, I have no doubt that Bryce legit believes they have nailed this box. I also realize that he has a vested interest in believing that. Much like the when one posts on a forum there’s a vested interest in sounding authoritative. It’s a weird ecosystem. I’m not trying to throw shade on you Skav. But when people insist the KT compressors are garbage I find that silly, for example, having used the good stuff and the cheap stuff extensively, we would have killed for such good sounding affordable gear in the Mackie/ADAT days. |
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Post by christopher on Oct 21, 2023 13:08:18 GMT -6
ART VLA 2, I might just doctor up one of those for a CL1b type thing. Plus it’s stereo. The warm.. put it in a different box, give it a different name. But I guess that’s why the ART is only $300?
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Post by notneeson on Oct 21, 2023 13:24:44 GMT -6
ART VLA 2, I might just doctor up one of those for a CL1b type thing. Plus it’s stereo. The warm.. put it in a different box, give it a different name. But I guess that’s why the ART is only $300? And the VLA is across the master buss or some legit great albums. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 21, 2023 14:19:05 GMT -6
Hmm, I tried a vla, thought it seemed pretty closed down, neither it or the pre did much for me.
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Post by skav on Oct 21, 2023 15:22:20 GMT -6
There's several reviews and head to heads vs the original on youtube. None of them are close to the smoothness of the Dane. I don't own the original, I wish I could get the performance of the original for this price, the unit visually looks good, tempting IMO. I don't have an investment with either side, but I hate to see people intentionally misled. I would Hope I am wrong, that would be awesome, but I don't think I am. Could very well be a useful compressor, I think it might, but it's markedet as being exactly like the TT... That's dishonest. I put 0 stock in YouTube shootouts with the exception of Seawell, simply because he’s one of us. The only way to know a piece of gear is to use it. Add to which, I have no doubt that Bryce legit believes they have nailed this box. I also realize that he has a vested interest in believing that. Much like the when one posts on a forum there’s a vested interest in sounding authoritative. It’s a weird ecosystem. I’m not trying to throw shade on you Skav. But when people insist the KT compressors are garbage I find that silly, for example, having used the good stuff and the cheap stuff extensively, we would have killed for such good sounding affordable gear in the Mackie/ADAT days. I'm not one who has said a KT clone or this clone is garbage, my point is about the language, which is tied to the marketing. It is dishonest. Bryce/WA says what they say because they knows from experience that this is what will sell their product. Let's say his WA-1B is 80% there, great! I think many will be happy with that, and able to create amazing productions. I'm pointing out that they claim they have 'accurately recreated' the TT, which they clearly have not, by listening to the comparisons. The differences are consistent across all comparison videos I've heard. "Something that is accurate is exact and true". Not approximate in any way, not 80% there. Sorry to be repeating myself here. My problem is with the language, which is false. No need to keep this discussion going. I don't have a grudge against WA or anything, in fact I know people who get great results using their products. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2023 15:57:51 GMT -6
ART VLA 2, I might just doctor up one of those for a CL1b type thing. Plus it’s stereo. The warm.. put it in a different box, give it a different name. But I guess that’s why the ART is only $300? And the VLA is across the master buss or some legit great albums. The ART VLA and Dual Limiter do way more than the clones. They're just built like crap. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 21, 2023 16:23:34 GMT -6
The CL1Bs are surprisingly consistent from unit to unit Fair enuff, but atypical with vintage gear ? my main point was working with the sound of the Warm or , of course, peeps can buy whatever comp they want ! Atypical of vintage gear where no two units sound alike, not even most matched pairs! But then the CL1b and its predecessor the CL1a aren't vintage. They are made to modern exacting standards, and better quality control. Annnnnddddd . . . I still find them boring and tiresome sometimes Great on Femvox. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2023 16:24:05 GMT -6
Also from watching Warren's video, he neglects to mention that the reason that the Tube Tech and other modern optical compressors like the Maselec behave better than the clones is because they're spending the time and money to bin optical detectors that have the desired behavior for the control path they designed. If you cannot get the gain reduction behavior you desire and the unit is effectively misfiring by undershooting and then trying to self-correct so overshooting later because that's what feedback compressors misbehaving do, you're going to have to limit the resulting peaks, producing unwanted distortion over your wanted distortion. Most of optical compressor emulation plugs have issues with the attack and release speeding up with greater gain reduction too. You might as well use something else that gets you the needed volume modulation and then color your signal before or after appropriately.
warren pointed out at the end that many of today's poor productions have no real attempt at peak control so much so that some producers desire the crappy transient.s There's often nothing the often ineffective clipper in the brickwall limiter so no peak control until the fixed-point .wav or .ddp image's hard digital 0 dbfs clipping itself and then the oscillations from the pcm clipping will usually clip your converters too. Many of today's popular brickwall limiters really aren't any better at limiting the transients their algorithms pick to limit than L1 and L2 too ugh
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 21, 2023 16:38:39 GMT -6
Fair enuff, but atypical with vintage gear ? my main point was working with the sound of the Warm or , of course, peeps can buy whatever comp they want ! Atypical of vintage gear where no two units sound alike, not even most matched pairs! But then the CL1b and its predecessor the CL1a aren't vintage. They are made to modern exacting standards, and better quality control. Annnnnddddd . . . I still find them boring and tiresome sometimes Great on Femvox. I don’t think people realize how much tighter most component tolerances have gotten in the last 50 years. |
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Post by notneeson on Oct 21, 2023 17:42:19 GMT -6
I put 0 stock in YouTube shootouts with the exception of Seawell, simply because he’s one of us. The only way to know a piece of gear is to use it. Add to which, I have no doubt that Bryce legit believes they have nailed this box. I also realize that he has a vested interest in believing that. Much like the when one posts on a forum there’s a vested interest in sounding authoritative. It’s a weird ecosystem. I’m not trying to throw shade on you Skav. But when people insist the KT compressors are garbage I find that silly, for example, having used the good stuff and the cheap stuff extensively, we would have killed for such good sounding affordable gear in the Mackie/ADAT days. I'm not one who has said a KT clone or this clone is garbage, my point is about the language, which is tied to the marketing. It is dishonest. Bryce/WA says what they say because they knows from experience that this is what will sell their product. Let's say his WA-1B is 80% there, great! I think many will be happy with that, and able to create amazing productions. I'm pointing out that they claim they have 'accurately recreated' the TT, which they clearly have not, by listening to the comparisons. The differences are consistent across all comparison videos I've heard. "Something that is accurate is exact and true". Not approximate in any way, not 80% there. Sorry to be repeating myself here. My problem is with the language, which is false. No need to keep this discussion going. I don't have a grudge against WA or anything, in fact I know people who get great results using their products. I disagree. I’m saying this is more about subjective opinions than objective truths. Especially when filtered through a codec ala YouTube. 🫠 |
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Post by ab101 on Oct 21, 2023 17:58:13 GMT -6
Here is a buzz soc for $725 a channel. Do not know this person, though it appears to be about 35 minutes from my house. reverb.com/item/71897735-buzz-audio-soc-1-1-stereo-optical-compressorAnd you can get the Buzz DBC20 for about that, though it is diode, it has an opto feel to me. And so many more are out there - like the Audioscape Opto If you can find those Vac Rac Brutes, they are fantastic too - though different, but you can really slam them. Why buy something that is likely compromises to hit a lower cost market, supposedly, when one can buy gear that is by amazing designers? |
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Post by drbill on Oct 21, 2023 19:05:03 GMT -6
Why buy something that is likely compromises to hit a lower cost market, supposedly, when one can buy gear that is by amazing designers? Cause it's BLUE??  |
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Post by nick8801 on Oct 22, 2023 7:55:54 GMT -6
I love this guy’s channel. Great review. Not sure how it actually compares to a real one, but sure sounds nice here.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 22, 2023 8:46:03 GMT -6
Good to hear it being used in isolation, sounds very useful to me.
Thx for posting.
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Post by robo on Oct 22, 2023 10:47:05 GMT -6
ART VLA 2, I might just doctor up one of those for a CL1b type thing. Plus it’s stereo. The warm.. put it in a different box, give it a different name. But I guess that’s why the ART is only $300? I’ve only used a modded VLA 2, but it is a very smooth, classy compressor. If you go one side into the other you can get a very LA2A thing going. It has a darker, denser vibe than the CL1B (based on what I’ve heard), so it’s a bit apples and oranges. Shameless plug: I’m selling mine in the classifieds if anyone is interested. I’d keep it if I had the rack space. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 22, 2023 11:12:11 GMT -6
When watching any of the YouTube demo reviews do realize even the best reviewer has to be careful not to upset the manufacturers and distributors because otherwise the flow of review samples drys up. The Manufacturers and Distributors know it and know they have the power. So take it all with a grain of salt.
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