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Post by chessparov on Jun 29, 2023 14:30:49 GMT -6
Might bee. "Bees Knees"? Most well known as a Roaring 20's phrase, here in the States. Flappers/Mobsters/Prohibition/Jazz era sort of thang. My Grandma lived all that!  Chris P.S. Anyone with upstairs as their Handle... Probably knows a lot about "Upstairs Downstairs" (loved that show!!) |
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Post by honkeur on Jun 29, 2023 15:06:23 GMT -6
About having a bee in the logo: I think the only way that could work is if the bee is very stylized, very pictogram like. A clean graphic of “the idea of bee-ness” — not a detailed representation of an actual particular bee. Like the icons for “male” and “female” for airport restrooms.
Or — just use the “BN”, and leave the bee icon out.
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Post by jampa on Jun 29, 2023 15:09:11 GMT -6
How long have they been around? Think around 2015 - around before then under a different name. Low cost DIY and pre-built ribbon mics |
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Post by paulcheeba on Jun 29, 2023 17:59:53 GMT -6
How long have they been around? Think around 2015 - around before then under a different name. Low cost DIY and pre-built ribbon mics They wouldn’t bear any threat to Beesneez then. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Jun 29, 2023 18:06:00 GMT -6
Might bee. "Bees Knees"? Most well known as a Roaring 20's phrase, here in the States. Flappers/Mobsters/Prohibition/Jazz era sort of thang. My Grandma lived all that! Chris P.S. Anyone with upstairs as their Handle... Probably knows a lot about "Upstairs Downstairs" (loved that show!!) My Father was deeply aspirational and ended up owning a wine business. He was into all the fine things and described the finest things as the Bees Knees as in “the Business”. That’s my association. He also owned a restaurant/wine bar called Upstairs Downstairs. Which would make no sense for a lower tiered brand to be “Beesneez” I think we’re literally only talking about a new logo and a classier look like for instance Myburgh who only has 2 mics but they look great and he seems to spend his time making sure all the best studios hear them. It doesn’t hurt that he was originally associated with Andreas Grosser. Also accurate clones like the 67 get a lot of lip service. Having such great capsules is a winner. |
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Post by ab101 on Jun 29, 2023 18:32:06 GMT -6
About the origin of the phrase “bees’ knees” — I haven’t done the research, but assume that it’s a variation of the British slang “the business”. If you describe something as “It’s the business”, it means exactly the same thing as “It’s the bees’ knees”. the business noun British slang : a very good or impressive person or thing “Since he's won the tournament, he thinks he's the business.” “You should see their new office. It's the business.” That is one of the theories - It's the business. Another is that it comes from a line of Shakespeare that has been shortened. "The be all and the end all of everything" which was shortened to "the B's and E's" and thus to "bee's kneesAnother is that is related to Bee Jackson, who danced the Charleston. |
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Post by wiz on Jun 29, 2023 18:54:48 GMT -6
In Australia, the generation before mine used it quite a bit and also they used the ducks guts (yeah that’s Australian slang) both mean the very best.
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Post by chessparov on Jun 29, 2023 20:47:13 GMT -6
Maybe we should get Sting as Celebrity Endorser.
If we could just only get him away from the Police first.
Chris
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 29, 2023 20:56:31 GMT -6
OK the biggest consensus opinion seams to be that Ben needs a marketing guy, but let me bring a little pro audio sales and marketing experience to this; Ben needs the right marketing person. We exist in this strange little micro market, general marketing guys don’t get us, and Ben the fact that you reside in OZ ( hey I reside in Dorthy’s other home, well it’s across the river). You need someone who understands both the “pro” and the not so pro customer. Someone who understands your market is international and what that really really means.
Once again love the product, mass Respect to you and Veronica, but no I don’t want the job, just ain’t healthy enough to give it the attention you guys deserve. You know you want a sounding board I’m happy to advise with no strings.
The problem for a mature brand like Beesneez is that your not big enough that someone with experience is going to dump a cash cow like Shure or Neumann for the chance to build you up, the good news is if you find someone with experience in the world of microphones is they are going to be pretty impressed with what you have accomplished.
One big question I would ask if you were paying me as a consultant is this: what line do you want to build the brand around? You have a handful of decent lines but what do you really feel is your bread and butter?
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Post by ericn on Jun 29, 2023 20:57:34 GMT -6
Maybe we should get Sting as Celebrity Endorser. If we could just only get him away from the Police first. Chris I think his buzz is still tied to Sennhiser and the 865! |
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Post by ab101 on Jun 29, 2023 21:19:46 GMT -6
I think these posts are the cat's pajamas! |
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Post by antipodesjosh on Jun 30, 2023 4:12:51 GMT -6
Ben, thanks for opening this up to the community for feedback!
I trained as a graphic designer and spent a some years at a branding agency, where we worked on everything from fast-moving consumer goods to agritech, telcos and airlines.
Some notes:
- Name change - could depend on how much business is repeat vs new, and which market segments you’re looking to grow in. Not something I could comment on without more info. The current name is well-known, unique and easy to find on search engines.
- it could work to have two brands or sub-brands in market, one for OEM and one for pro audio/consumers. We did that all the time for businesses with a B2B and B2C component. It can be easier than trying to be all things to all customers.
- The feeling of premium products is in the cohesion of the industrial design, product line, packaging, communications, and proof-points. My impression is the new C12 style mic is a big step up in terms of the slickness of the presentation, I’m loving where that’s going.
- definitely get a designer to explore some directions to take the badge in, but also have them come up with a system for all the other touchpoints so they are consistent and easily repeatable.
- there’s an amazing story in the provenance and in-house expert engineering of your products that could be elevated more. I think this is one of the most unique aspects of Beesneez and a real differentiator.
- content production/marketing is a big opportunity too - studio photography of the products, comprehensive sound samples, things being made, footage of some killer local acts recording a song with the products.
The brand is the sum of the interactions someone has with the business, and there’s a ton of things that could move the needle.
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Post by chessparov on Jun 30, 2023 10:36:03 GMT -6
By sheer coincidence my new Professional Trade Stage Designation (PTSD for short) of my newest killer Rap identity is... "911" It's even sprayed on my new Porsche, when I take it around town (she's one Hot Wheel I tell ya) But I only have been called so far, when the Headliner couldn't make it. Only in a dire Emergency. Trust me the "Rapping" is unforgettable. Chris |
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Post by ericn on Jun 30, 2023 10:48:28 GMT -6
By sheer coincidence my new Professional Trade Stage Designation (PTSD for short) of my newest killer Rap identity is... "911" It's even sprayed on my new Porsche, when I take it around town (she's one Hot Wheel I tell ya) But I only have been called so far, when the Headliner couldn't make it. Only in a dire Emergency. Trust me the "Rapping" is unforgettable. Chris Don’t you mean Wrapping Chris? |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 30, 2023 14:53:03 GMT -6
I tried it.
But there was an Elf working for Santa.
(Head Toy Fixer and Re-Package Wrapper BTW)
That wanted to be rich and famous as a singer.
(A great wrapper!)
Then he could afford to live anywhere for one thing.
Even Bi-Polar.
Chris
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Post by jmoose on Jun 30, 2023 16:10:27 GMT -6
Ben, thanks for opening this up to the community for feedback! I trained as a graphic designer and spent a some years at a branding agency, where we worked on everything from fast-moving consumer goods to agritech, telcos and airlines. Some notes: - Name change - could depend on how much business is repeat vs new, and which market segments you’re looking to grow in. Not something I could comment on without more info. The current name is well-known, unique and easy to find on search engines. - it could work to have two brands or sub-brands in market, one for OEM and one for pro audio/consumers. We did that all the time for businesses with a B2B and B2C component. It can be easier than trying to be all things to all customers. - The feeling of premium products is in the cohesion of the industrial design, product line, packaging, communications, and proof-points. My impression is the new C12 style mic is a big step up in terms of the slickness of the presentation, I’m loving where that’s going. - definitely get a designer to explore some directions to take the badge in, but also have them come up with a system for all the other touchpoints so they are consistent and easily repeatable. - there’s an amazing story in the provenance and in-house expert engineering of your products that could be elevated more. I think this is one of the most unique aspects of Beesneez and a real differentiator. - content production/marketing is a big opportunity too - studio photography of the products, comprehensive sound samples, things being made, footage of some killer local acts recording a song with the products. The brand is the sum of the interactions someone has with the business, and there’s a ton of things that could move the needle. I can't really disagree with any of this, especially those last two points... showing in house development & real world examples & photos. Might seem goofy but if I'm not familiar with a product or brand... In this case with hi fi transducers seeing that a bunch of other established shops have these in the locker next to the Neumann's & whatnot? Goes a long way towards building confidence. Something ericn said up there about marketing reminds me of a conversation from my Mercenary Audio days... We were debating taking on a new line & Fletcher relayed a story about flying out & meeting with the late Dave Hill of Cranesong fame. IIRC they were in his kitchen and Dave was kinda complaining about various things while eating a bowl of ramen noodles... Fletcher said something like Dave, your a brilliant designer but really terrible at marketing and running a business. And most likely if he hadn't stepped in and helped make adjustments its quite possible Cranesong would've disappeared completely. Personally? I'm kinda in the market for a nice new tube mic. Had pre-ordered one of the UA Bocks until that unfortunate split. At first glance, maybe even second I don't quite see enough there to convince me to part with the Moose bucks. Not when measured against say... Telefunken or Mojave or some other known company. Seems like there's a bunch of happy users here... but again I don't know anyone outside this forum who's ever mentioned Bees mics? Even the site reviews are other forum members...? Not saying but just saying. |
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Post by ericn on Jun 30, 2023 16:56:35 GMT -6
Ben, thanks for opening this up to the community for feedback! I trained as a graphic designer and spent a some years at a branding agency, where we worked on everything from fast-moving consumer goods to agritech, telcos and airlines. Some notes: - Name change - could depend on how much business is repeat vs new, and which market segments you’re looking to grow in. Not something I could comment on without more info. The current name is well-known, unique and easy to find on search engines. - it could work to have two brands or sub-brands in market, one for OEM and one for pro audio/consumers. We did that all the time for businesses with a B2B and B2C component. It can be easier than trying to be all things to all customers. - The feeling of premium products is in the cohesion of the industrial design, product line, packaging, communications, and proof-points. My impression is the new C12 style mic is a big step up in terms of the slickness of the presentation, I’m loving where that’s going. - definitely get a designer to explore some directions to take the badge in, but also have them come up with a system for all the other touchpoints so they are consistent and easily repeatable. - there’s an amazing story in the provenance and in-house expert engineering of your products that could be elevated more. I think this is one of the most unique aspects of Beesneez and a real differentiator. - content production/marketing is a big opportunity too - studio photography of the products, comprehensive sound samples, things being made, footage of some killer local acts recording a song with the products. The brand is the sum of the interactions someone has with the business, and there’s a ton of things that could move the needle. I can't really disagree with any of this, especially those last two points... showing in house development & real world examples & photos. Might seem goofy but if I'm not familiar with a product or brand... In this case with hi fi transducers seeing that a bunch of other established shops have these in the locker next to the Neumann's & whatnot? Goes a long way towards building confidence. Something ericn said up there about marketing reminds me of a conversation from my Mercenary Audio days... We were debating taking on a new line & Fletcher relayed a story about flying out & meeting with the late Dave Hill of Cranesong fame. IIRC they were in his kitchen and Dave was kinda complaining about various things while eating a bowl of ramen noodles... Fletcher said something like Dave, your a brilliant designer but really terrible at marketing and running a business. And most likely if he hadn't stepped in and helped make adjustments its quite possible Cranesong would've disappeared completely. Personally? I'm kinda in the market for a nice new tube mic. Had pre-ordered one of the UA Bocks until that unfortunate split. At first glance, maybe even second I don't quite see enough there to convince me to part with the Moose bucks. Not when measured against say... Telefunken or Mojave or some other known company. Seems like there's a bunch of happy users here... but again I don't know anyone outside this forum who's ever mentioned Bees mics? Even the site reviews are other forum members...? Not saying but just saying. In his prime, and things have changed a lot, but Fletcher was probably one of the top 5 marketing guys in pro audio. Moose you have no idea how big of a smile the Dave Hill story put on my face. I think Dave always understood his short comings and was one of the reasons Dave worked so well with Brad Lundy, actually thinking about it Brad would be a perfect for building Beesneez in the US and has no mic lines these days. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 30, 2023 17:00:06 GMT -6
jmoose, I’m surprised you’re unfamiliar with BeesNeez. They’ve been around for probably 20 years and have a solid reputation.
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Post by chessparov on Jun 30, 2023 17:06:09 GMT -6
Just ask Klaus about Ben's capsules sometime. And the fact that David Bock and Ben have high respect of each other?  Chris |
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Post by jmoose on Jun 30, 2023 18:15:26 GMT -6
jmoose , I’m surprised you’re unfamiliar with BeesNeez. They’ve been around for probably 20 years and have a solid reputation. What can I say? Guess I live a sheltered life. Probably a decade & change ago... maybe around 2010 I completely unplugged from things like recording forums & even let my Tape Op subscription lapse. Still haven't renewed it BTW. But I did that to shut out the noise & more or less buried myself in real world work. Mostly because after having served as a mod at the purple place from day 1... working at Mercenary for a bit... and then, a specific incident working a multi day music festival among other things... I really began to realize that most of what happens on the interknot has zero bearing on whats actually happening in the field. Overall there's a metric ton of shit that's popular (or hated) on forums that doesn't bear fruit... For one as a guitar player? Over on TGP the "Timmy" pedal is a really popular overdrive. Seems like everyone has one and says your a lunkhead if you've never used one or don't like it. Yet... you know how many guitarists have actually showed up with a Timmy on their pedal board? One. Exactly one fucking guy. Now that doesn't mean its a bad pedal its probably great! But it does mean that, at least in the circles I run its not popular or known. Flip side is something like Analogman pedals... even with their multiyear wait I see 'em all the time & have played most. Kinda rambling here but its like, just my perspective man. Feel free to read between the lines... draw your own conclusions... Moose is an idiot blah blah blee blee |
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Post by ericn on Jun 30, 2023 18:22:21 GMT -6
jmoose , I’m surprised you’re unfamiliar with BeesNeez. They’ve been around for probably 20 years and have a solid reputation. What can I say? Guess I live a sheltered life. Probably a decade & change ago... maybe around 2010 I completely unplugged from things like recording forums & even let my Tape Op subscription lapse. Still haven't renewed it BTW. But I did that to shut out the noise & more or less buried myself in real world work. Mostly because after having served as a mod at the purple place from day 1... working at Mercenary for a bit... and then, a specific incident working a multi day music festival among other things... I really began to realize that most of what happens on the interknot has zero bearing on whats actually happening in the field. Overall there's a metric ton of shit that's popular (or hated) on forums that doesn't bear fruit... For one as a guitar player? Over on TGP the "Timmy" pedal is a really popular overdrive. Seems like everyone has one and says your a lunkhead if you've never used one or don't like it. Yet... you know how many guitarists have actually showed up with a Timmy on their pedal board? One. Exactly one fucking guy. Now that doesn't mean its a bad pedal its probably great! But it does mean that, at least in the circles I run its not popular or known. Flip side is something like Analogman pedals... even with their multiyear wait I see 'em all the time & have played most. Kinda rambling here but its like, just my perspective man. Feel free to read between the lines... draw your own conclusions... Moose is an idiot blah blah blee blee I’m not surprised, from your days at Mercenary you know how the mic market exploded, you weren’t selling so you didn’t have a need to know everything out there either. Lots of great AE’s out there who don’t know 1/4 of the gear available. BTW in my mind I’m picturing Fletcher in Superior WI visiting Dave in January or February thinking “ fuck who knew Boston winters are warm “. |
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Post by wiz on Jun 30, 2023 18:44:12 GMT -6
I was completely blown away by the AI generated badges. Wow AI is gonna have a massive impact on the design world.
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Post by mics on Jun 30, 2023 18:47:01 GMT -6
So many good ideas and reality checks. Thanks so much guys.
I won't quote replies etc in this post as it will get too long.
Josh, I really appreciate your perspective and points, they make sense and give me a ton of stuff to think over.
Ward and Ward, yep there are two of you lol. thanks so much for the time you have both devoted to this so far. Your points of view and exposure in the industry are really helpful.
Moose, thanks for your thoughts just now. I also know Fletcher though not as you do. In my early days, he helped me a lot to avoid the poison and actually make stuff rather than simply talk about it all the time. He is an interesting dude and we have enjoyed some fin trade show banter as well. Your points are thought provoking. It is interesting that everyday, I hear of people that haven't even heard of us and yet they but microphones form others that we have made parts for for the entire life of the said product. I fell this is an area where we have neglected somewhat and probably need to not neglect coming forth. We need an advertising budget that is made from real dollars, not just word of mouth. we also really need to use the expertise of others and not try to carry every torch.
Over the coming months, we hope to branch out using many of these suggestions.
that bring me to another question for your all.
Do you still read the Mags? Is it worth advertising there? What other forms of advertising should we consider?
And don't worry John K, I plan on advertising here at RGO as I feel the forum really deserves the support.
Thanks again.
Ben
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Post by paulcheeba on Jun 30, 2023 19:09:33 GMT -6
One thing I think makes a substantial difference is great connectors and cables. It makes the mics look classic.
Tape op seems to make a huge impact still. They just reviewed the Wellspring which has been sold out since.
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Post by mics on Jun 30, 2023 19:22:34 GMT -6
One thing I think makes a substantial difference is great connectors and cables. It makes the mics look classic. Tape op seems to make a huge impact still. They just reviewed the Wellspring which has been sold out since. I agree with the connectors. That’s why we make our own cable and connectors for many of our mics. I also eventually want to make a swivel mount connector for the b87, B67 mics. |
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