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Post by ab101 on Jun 28, 2023 11:10:27 GMT -6
I like the idea of BN with a sharp simple logo that is not too big I think that is a great idea. And coincidentally BN sounds like Ben as well as stands for Bees Neez. And no need to change the company name. The full name can be on the power supply, invoices, etc. And please consider another color besides red. (Blue, grey, or even purple worked with some of the Neumanns?) |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 28, 2023 11:33:27 GMT -6
Hi Ben,
Very cool that you're opening yourself up for feedback on a public forum. I have a lot of respect for you.
I put myself in the camp that says looks and branding matter. However, there's obviously a lot of personal subjectivity wrapped up in design.
I think the brand name you've cultivated over the years is an increasingly identifiable one, and it would be a shame to lose that. I do think a logo and branding change would go a long way towards a company "refresh."
Bees make me think of honey, hives, and hexagons. You could allude to that by using a hexagon badge (rather than Neumann's identifiable diamond) and gold accents in the logo. If you choose the "BN" route, the "BN" could be raised gold lettering on a silver or nickel or lighter brass vertical hexagon background.
Another route could be the vertical hexagon badge with a drawn honeybee image. If you went that route, the honeybee could become a key part of your branding.
I threw together a few super quick and dirty ideas to show what I mean...
I really like option three! |
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Post by gmichael on Jun 28, 2023 13:12:00 GMT -6
Thanks guys. So far your all being very helpful. I know a few have said, get a pro marketing guru to help but realistically, that just isn't my style. On a side note, thanks for keeping it nice; It's easier to spitball ideas when your not made to feel stupid! I know how difficult it can be to want to remain attached to existing behaviours and approaches to tasks. I say it all the time, the hardest and most challenging lesson any of us will ever face in our lives is- letting go. Your "style" is building microphones, not designing logo's and brand identifying product visuals.
This might be the 1 area where the most gains can be made by loosening the grip a smidge and let the professionals take specific guidance from the ideas formulated by the well meaning intentions of your community of appreciating supporters. I've worked for major US bands and their products and the collective ideas of a commnunity are great assets to develop the storyboards and layout specifications of key brand identity development. But at some point all of those great ideas and suggestions need to go off to the big boys and girls who do this each and everday and understand the finer nuances/details in the power of suggestion that a logo or brand ID can have on the success of a product or entire line of products. Having at least 5 concepts professionally tightened up to bring to the table with FMCG experts provides them with enough information to get their own research tweaked to meet your specific needs and wants, which ultimately means you're still steering the ship even though this big step into a realm you know little/less about means your decision making will be more informed and less fear based.I use the term fear based clinically, not as criticism, fear based decision making is what 99% people do 99% of the time, with a mixed bag of results, success rarely being any of them. Entering into a working consultation with professionals really only means you having the answers to most of your own questions already answered and most of what you want from a asset and brand identification campaign already in hand. This is not the precipice on which you want to risk everything you have built to get here dude.
History is a potent source of critical information, most successful iconic designs are successful with very good reasoning behind those designs, it's rarely guess work or under developed concepts limited because of one's particular work traits and habits.
It's gonna cost you big to go prime time man, look at the brand and asset campaign to be as valuable as that new lathe and big dollar tooling you just bought. To see it as anything else to me is to risky considering the true status you have brought this brick and mortar business up from.
Many people might feel threatened by you making the changes necessary to develop the business growth that these new equipment purchases intimate, particularly about the maturation of the brand identity, because the old design helps them maintain a sense of being a part of it all, and that has value on an emotional and spiritual level and deserves some degree of homage. But ultimately we are talking about something much bigger than any one person's emotions and sensations of attachment to a past that can't be allowed to meter a company attempting to go from where it has been to potentially what it can be taking all the right steps to ensure success. We could be talking about a future that sets your family up for 100 yrs or more.
I don't devalue the cyber equivalent of standing around a fire with beers spitballing ideas, but ultimately for those ideas to actually manifest and provide the potential I suspect you are striving for, at some point you'll want to bring the big guns in and nail it without a sliver of doubt. I'm so barracking for you dude..go gettum and git er done mate, DFA ;-)
Have a fantastic day all. I accept up front that some people might be really uncomfortable with what I'm saying here. I'm terrible at coddling the past at the expense of a future.
All I can say is it is all based on a close proximity to prolific failure and profoundly extraordinary successes over my working lifetime. Those experiences are still both hauntingly scarring and unforgettably exhilarating to look back on even today. Folks rarely get these shots like dude might have in front of him
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Post by paulcheeba on Jun 28, 2023 13:25:39 GMT -6
I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned but we need Bees to save the planet.
The other image worth looking at is the Laguiole steak knives and the strong Bee image on those.
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Post by paulcheeba on Jun 28, 2023 13:28:18 GMT -6
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Post by peterhess on Jun 28, 2023 16:13:58 GMT -6
Is that the knife logo? I looked at it and thought “Jar Jar Binks”.
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Post by ab101 on Jun 28, 2023 17:01:36 GMT -6
I would not have the Bee as a logo. But BN is fine. The idea, from my personal perspective and bias, just for Ben's consideration, is that Bees Neez (Knees) became popular in the 1920s. To some, it meant the absolute top of the line. It also meant something new or innovative - like the Charleston dance.
To me, Ben is the Bees Neez, great personality, humorous, innovative, striving for the best, and caring.
All the best!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 28, 2023 17:07:46 GMT -6
Thanks guys. So far your all being very helpful. I know a few have said, get a pro marketing guru to help but realistically, that just isn't my style. On a side note, thanks for keeping it nice; It's easier to spitball ideas when your not made to feel stupid!
Your "style" is building microphones, not designing logo's and brand identifying product visuals.
This. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 28, 2023 19:06:27 GMT -6
Here's an idea with a honeycomb motif instead of a single hexagon. I spent a bit more time drawing this bee, too... Attachments:
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Post by christopher on Jun 28, 2023 19:16:53 GMT -6
Rebrand is NOT a good idea!
You could do the Telefunken and others thing and just have a total different second brand and dress, with same mics underneah the marketing.
A line of mics for the cork sniffers, maybe put a precious jewel in there, small tiny to read print, maybe with a french or swiss name, elegant lines that say “billion dollar corporate art school”
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Post by mics on Jun 28, 2023 19:18:38 GMT -6
So much information..
I am digging the hexagon as the outer shape, it still says classic and professional but with a hint of difference. I like it.
We feel that the BN definitely has merit. We can still be BeesNeez but over time move more and more to the BN heavy branding. Once we secure a few ideas, I will certainly employ some marketing legends to continue the journey but this is moving in the right direction.
I've always loved where Peter Freedman got the name RODE from and the way way it became their brand name. For those that don't know, it was something like this.
Peter secured an OEM body and design and thought to himself hmmm. these things could become as numerous as Rodents.... RODE NT. Something like that anyway...
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 28, 2023 19:23:43 GMT -6
Just for good measure, here's a honeycomb background with the "BN" letters. I like the looks of it, as well.
Attachments:
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Post by copperx on Jun 28, 2023 19:26:57 GMT -6
I've always loved where Peter Freedman got the name RODE from and the way way it became their brand name. I like it. That story is still less puerile than SpaceX and their models S, E, and X. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 28, 2023 19:33:52 GMT -6
OK, one last variation for the night, Ben. Here's the "BN" over a single hexagon background, but the "BN" is larger than the hexagon (and the hexagon is a different color than before). Something I like about the "BN" being bigger...
Attachments:
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 28, 2023 19:38:00 GMT -6
I lied - this is the last one for the night: similar to the previous one, but with the hexagon pointing sideways instead of up/down...
Attachments:
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Post by copperx on Jun 28, 2023 19:54:15 GMT -6
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Post by chessparov on Jun 28, 2023 20:05:31 GMT -6
Wow! Too bee or not to bee.  I'm allergic to Bees (and shellfish/latex/pollen. And...) But I still would keep "bees" in the running. Chris |
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Post by jmoose on Jun 28, 2023 21:27:14 GMT -6
For many years now, we have been hearing from customers that our badge is too big or the wrong shape. We have also heard time and time again that our brand name is perhaps a little off putting. We don't enter into this lightly; but maybe we should consider a change to BPA from BeesNeez. We could redesign our badge and slowly work toward a full change over. What is the nail that has spurred our decision to maybe change branding? I have seen a thread on the Purple Forum where some well known industry types have stated that our branding is "Prosumer". This is concerning for us as we are currently the worlds largest manufacturer of OEM capsules outside of china and we supply parts to many companies. We feel that our products are among the best ever made feel that our branding should also reflect this. Branding & marketing is something that starts at the top... skimming this thread & not knowing much about anything... to start I really kinda wonder why for thing, you don't have the name and links in your sig here? User name = mics - no affiliations? You don't believe in your work enough to toot your own horn..? Quite honestly outside of this forum I've never heard the name "beez neez" connected to microphones. And even now it took a few posts and soomgle-fu to establish who & what we're talking about... Really. One major problem for me, and its not unique to your company... is that its really kinda impossibly hard to do much of anything "new" with a fairly generic shaped microphone body. At first glace your mics look like MXL or Bocks or a dozen others. Big hurdle. But if that's the headbasket your going to use..? Enough has been said about the badges. But first impressions cut deeper... When I look at the website and you say "DIY" mics - that kinda implies someone buying random cheap parts and assembling things next to their washing machine in the basement. And I have friends who've done that and nothing they've put together has been all that impressive. But your building capsules in house in Australia? Winding transformers? Why not lead with that? Maybe now you've got my attention? The pictures & info on the site don't help much... mics pictured against pastel colors & bland backdrops. It looks cheap. Like we're even cutting corners on photography. The mic comes with a shockmount & box? Why can't I see those? If these mics are completely fucking rad why aren't they pictured in front of a drum kit or something? To that end... users? Why aren't they listed? Who's using this stuff? Ok so maybe Butch Vig hasn't bought a mic... nobody that famous but surely there's other people in the trenches, doing legit work who have bought things? That's proof of real world results. End of the day as a for-hire guy you aren't just trying to sell me a microphone. That's only the first hurdle. From there I gotta sell it to every artist that comes through the door. Some pieces of equipment don't need an explanation... and others... if they DO need an explanation? Oh yeah, this is just like blah blah but better because XYZ? Maybe it wasn't all that cool to start with. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Jun 28, 2023 21:33:59 GMT -6
Is that the knife logo? I looked at it and thought “Jar Jar Binks”. No it’s more Stormtrooper or Darth Vader etc. it was really to demonstrate the bold hexagonal theme. I picture a BN inside. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Jun 28, 2023 21:44:37 GMT -6
Rebrand is NOT a good idea! You could do the Telefunken and others thing and just have a total different second brand and dress, with same mics underneah the marketing. A line of mics for the cork sniffers, maybe put a precious jewel in there, small tiny to read print, maybe with a french or swiss name, elegant lines that say “billion dollar corporate art school” I would agree with this if there weren’t already a few lines. It’s a great idea. Upton wasn’t held back by Vintech. Lots of snobs have Dallas’ mic. In fact apart from the Upton 251 etc. there is no badge. Out of the gazillions of AI pictures I like the B as it is classy like Bentley. I personally think between the plain hexagon like Aiguiole and a classic BN you have it. |
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Post by jampa on Jun 28, 2023 22:10:29 GMT -6
I'd say yes to new logo, no to rebrand
If new logo, careful as there is already bumblebee pro audio
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Post by paulcheeba on Jun 29, 2023 11:55:09 GMT -6
I'd say yes to new logo, no to rebrand If new logo, careful as there is already bumblebee pro audio How long have they been around? |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 29, 2023 14:00:52 GMT -6
For many years now, we have been hearing from customers that our badge is too big or the wrong shape. We have also heard time and time again that our brand name is perhaps a little off putting. We don't enter into this lightly; but maybe we should consider a change to BPA from BeesNeez. We could redesign our badge and slowly work toward a full change over. What is the nail that has spurred our decision to maybe change branding? I have seen a thread on the Purple Forum where some well known industry types have stated that our branding is "Prosumer". This is concerning for us as we are currently the worlds largest manufacturer of OEM capsules outside of china and we supply parts to many companies. We feel that our products are among the best ever made feel that our branding should also reflect this. Branding & marketing is something that starts at the top... skimming this thread & not knowing much about anything... to start I really kinda wonder why for thing, you don't have the name and links in your sig here? User name = mics - no affiliations? You don't believe in your work enough to toot your own horn..? Quite honestly outside of this forum I've never heard the name "beez neez" connected to microphones. And even now it took a few posts and soomgle-fu to establish who & what we're talking about... Really. One major problem for me, and its not unique to your company... is that its really kinda impossibly hard to do much of anything "new" with a fairly generic shaped microphone body. At first glace your mics look like MXL or Bocks or a dozen others. Big hurdle. But if that's the headbasket your going to use..? Enough has been said about the badges. But first impressions cut deeper... When I look at the website and you say "DIY" mics - that kinda implies someone buying random cheap parts and assembling things next to their washing machine in the basement. And I have friends who've done that and nothing they've put together has been all that impressive. But your building capsules in house in Australia? Winding transformers? Why not lead with that? Maybe now you've got my attention? The pictures & info on the site don't help much... mics pictured against pastel colors & bland backdrops. It looks cheap. Like we're even cutting corners on photography. The mic comes with a shockmount & box? Why can't I see those? If these mics are completely fucking rad why aren't they pictured in front of a drum kit or something? To that end... users? Why aren't they listed? Who's using this stuff? Ok so maybe Butch Vig hasn't bought a mic... nobody that famous but surely there's other people in the trenches, doing legit work who have bought things? That's proof of real world results. End of the day as a for-hire guy you aren't just trying to sell me a microphone. That's only the first hurdle. From there I gotta sell it to every artist that comes through the door. Some pieces of equipment don't need an explanation... and others... if they DO need an explanation? Oh yeah, this is just like blah blah but better because XYZ? Maybe it wasn't all that cool to start with. "If it sounds good it is good". IMHO this post quoted, is a bit too tough. If they trust YOU enough, it does cut down on the "selling" a bit. Not like I'm saying anything new, as you know. Just trying to balance things. Chris |
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Post by honkeur on Jun 29, 2023 14:22:22 GMT -6
About the origin of the phrase “bees’ knees” — I haven’t done the research, but assume that it’s a variation of the British slang “the business”. If you describe something as “It’s the business”, it means exactly the same thing as “It’s the bees’ knees”.
the business
noun
British slang
: a very good or impressive person or thing
“Since he's won the tournament, he thinks he's the business.”
“You should see their new office. It's the business.”
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Post by upstairs on Jun 29, 2023 14:30:46 GMT -6
I think the name Sneesby would be nice for the top of the line stuff. It's got a little bit of the English charm going on and is pretty unique sounding, memorable. Sounds good to an American at least. Also doesn't come across as too much of a rebrand - maybe more of a 'graduation'. Maybe keep Beesneez for the more budget options.
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