|
Post by theboris on Mar 12, 2023 10:41:39 GMT -6
In thread about drum mics, dan mentioned some useful info about some mic manufacturers. What I'd like to hear about are good dynamic mics, both in sound/fidelity and durability. Add to the pot any potential issues with company policies that make it all the better or worse. As an example, I love the sound of the Beyer m201, but it died after light use and just outside warranty. They only sell some of the replacement parts, and for a price that comes close to just buying another one in used mint condition. After it sitting as a paper weight for years, I finally ordered parts. They didn't want to provide a schematic or exploded drawing (thankfully an older ED is around the interwebs, and pics when I disassembled helped for re-assembly / re-wiring). But the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth, both for how a well-treated dynamic could become damaged, and the costly and tedious repair process. Contrast this with an SM57, they are far more robust and cheaper. Too bad I dislike the sound. If Beyer didn't have these issues, I'd love to grab some m88s, but I'm gun-shy now. I very much agree with Dan that they are essentially disposable mics due to build quality and repair/support issues. I don't like to support companies like this. I feel the same about the EV RE20 - the death rattle and disintegrating foam, and want to say I've heard it's not cheap to get that fixed, but I've no direct experience with it. So, how long do you find RE20 and M88's last before requiring service? These would be with infrequent home studio use, never dropped or abused, stored properly... but used on kick and bass amps / decent SPL. What are your thoughts in general on other dynamics and the manufacturer's support?
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 12, 2023 10:53:10 GMT -6
In thread about drum mics, dan mentioned some useful info about some mic manufacturers. What I'd like to hear about are good dynamic mics, both in sound/fidelity and durability. Add to the pot any potential issues with company policies that make it all the better or worse. As an example, I love the sound of the Beyer m201, but it died after light use and just outside warranty. They only sell some of the replacement parts, and for a price that comes close to just buying another one in used mint condition. After it sitting as a paper weight for years, I finally ordered parts. They didn't want to provide a schematic or exploded drawing (thankfully an older ED is around the interwebs, and pics when I disassembled helped for re-assembly / re-wiring). But the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth, both for how a well-treated dynamic could become damaged, and the costly and tedious repair process. Contrast this with an SM57, they are far more robust and cheaper. Too bad I dislike the sound. If Beyer didn't have these issues, I'd love to grab some m88s, but I'm gun-shy now. I very much agree with Dan that they are essentially disposable mics due to build quality and repair/support issues. I don't like to support companies like this. I feel the same about the EV RE20 - the death rattle and disintegrating foam, and want to say I've heard it's not cheap to get that fixed, but I've no direct experience with it. So, how long do you find RE20 and M88's last before requiring service? These would be with infrequent home studio use, never dropped or abused, stored properly... but used on kick and bass amps / decent SPL. What are your thoughts in general on other dynamics and the manufacturer's support? Don't know about warranty but I seem to find endless uses for EV 635a. I love it on guitar cabs cuz you can get real close without proximity effect (omni). I've even used them as overheads (if you like a vintage sound). Acoustic guitars. Really anything as long as you're not looking for hi fidelity sound. Pretty sure they're indestructible as well.
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Mar 12, 2023 11:31:46 GMT -6
I have 3 M88s 2 that came from the studio I used to work at, and a 3rd I bought used and they all work perfectly. At least 2 of them have slightly dented grills from my butterfingers and they continue to perform. My M201 was not new when I acquired it and it's fine, been sitting facing my hihats for years, and gets pulled for other duties often. My TGX50 is also from the old studio. So at least 2 M88 and a TGX50 that are over 20 years old and going fine. I don't buy into the 'Beyer are disposable' thing.
Yeah, SM5x are durable, but they are the McDonalds hamburger (not even a Big Mac or Quarter Pounder) of microphones.
My EV (PL)RE20 took a hit and it hasn't worked right in years, I just keep putting off sending it to EV.
|
|
|
Post by robo on Mar 12, 2023 11:39:09 GMT -6
I don’t know what happened to your M210, but in regular studio use dynamic mics just shouldn’t be a maintenance concern. Choose what sounds best to you in the application. Buy used to save some $. Replace 20-30 years down the line if needed.
Live is a whole different ballgame, and cheap replaceability is essential. I think Dan is a little hard on Audix mics in this regard. Out of a PA that scooped/focused sound works really well in a live room.
|
|
|
Post by bgrotto on Mar 12, 2023 12:08:31 GMT -6
Audio Technica ATM 25 is a staple. Great on kick, toms, and bass guitar. I've got a handful; they've been in service for decades at this point and they are still rock solid. I mostly agree with dan about the Audix stuff. A big exception is their OM handheld series; not sure if those are still in production, but the OM5 and OM6 handhelds make for GREAT vocal mics, particularly on stage or in a live recording situation with minimal isolation. I have some other dynamic secret weapons but I don't want to run the prices up so I gotta stay mum
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 12, 2023 12:18:44 GMT -6
My m88’s are going strong for the past 10 years or so. My handful of i5’s are trucking strong after 15 years of use. Not sure what Dan is talking about in regards to snare, one of mine lives there and I’m happier with it than any other of the usual suspects.
My m88’s live on inside kick and toms. Never had a problem.
I think it also depends on what music you are recording. Can’t remember the last time I had a double pedal drummer smashing away. I’m sure that could probably cause more potential issues, but I honestly don’t like that type of music so I don’t record it.
|
|
|
Post by bgrotto on Mar 12, 2023 12:36:19 GMT -6
My m88’s are going strong for the past 10 years or so. My handful of i5’s are trucking strong after 15 years of use. Not sure what Dan is talking about in regards to snare, one of mine lives there and I’m happier with it than any other of the usual suspects. My m88’s live on inside kick and toms. Never had a problem. I think it also depends on what music you are recording. Can’t remember the last time I had a double pedal drummer smashing away. I’m sure that could probably cause more potential issues, but I honestly don’t like that type of music so I don’t record it. Double pedal drummers rarely hit that hard. Those kicks get sample replaced for a reason.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Mar 12, 2023 12:48:05 GMT -6
If the M88 is the King for its kind of Neumann-ish/87-ish vocal sound*... The AKG D770 and D790 (same mic/more foam on windscreen, are the Crown Prince's. ) You can still pick up EV 767a's on the cheap. IMHO the N76 is overall lesser. Chris *Two Bob Ohlsson tidbits... Don't drop an EV 635a on its nose (Kills high end) He's done punch-in's before with an M88, where an 87 wasn't available (originally 87 on vocal). And no one was the wiser!!
|
|
|
Post by theboris on Mar 12, 2023 12:57:21 GMT -6
It's good to hear people overall are having good life expectancy with the M88s. I guess there is the potential for prices to rise by mentioning ones you particularly like. I don't want to do that, so I welcome DM if you are up for sharing secret weapons. Overall I'm interested in both what is good quality and bad quality, be it sound or company. Not to sh*t talk companies directly, but I bet most people here are capable to describing their experiences without such hyperbole or attacks, just matter of fact info on company practices or build quality. gravesnumber9 , I agree, I like the EV 635a both in sound and seemingly indestructible, but the omni is a killer for a lot of situations. Is there a cardioid version of that? It's interesting to me how even from the same company, some dynamics can be somewhat fragile and costly to repair (RE20), others robust (635a). I know everyone has their own flavors and preferences, and it's good to hear lots of responses. I've never gotten along with Audix mics and every AT I've tried (owned a number of them over the years) does seem to be consistently crispy, "plasticy" etc. However you want to call it, they are certainly recognizable to me! But then again, I'm only thinking of condensers here, I've zero experience with their dynamics. Sounds like ATM25 is one to check out, as at least my experience with AT condensers is that seem to be relatively robust. I'm mostly covered on toms duties, but am primarily interested in dynamics that bring a good dose of "good" to guitar/bass amps and kick. Also, for context, I'm one of those people that is happy to deal with phase alignment and use multiple mics on single source provided each one brings something useful to the table. I wish more companies posted off-axis FRs, as it seems that response can make or break a mic on a drum kit or between instruments. Looking at you, 421...
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Mar 12, 2023 16:15:25 GMT -6
A thread about dynamics? They are Dyna-Mic! Wicked cool, pissahs. Favorites and what I like them for.
Telefunken M80. Snare top. Crack snap BANG thud. More details than a typical SDC Senn M441. Snare bottom. Hypercardioid. Gets the snares and shell and nothing but Beyer M201. Hi hats. straight down, 9" above, opposite side of contact point. Nice off-axis rejection and easy on the ears Shure SM7. Great for guide vocals when tracking live off the floor. nothing else. That's it's only use. Shure Beta 57 gen 1. Fabulous on a piccolo snare. Yamaha MZ205be. Awesome on a bright or clingy snare. Senn MD421. Toms. But not top. BOTTOM heads. Proximiity is perfect Shure SM57. Guitar cabinet. Slightly off axis mid cone. Great alt to a Royer 121. EV RE20. Love this mic on inside kick. Natural full with great snap! T-Funk M82. also great on inside kick when you need more snap or click or point. Great for metal and hard rock EV 308 408 et al. Nice alternative mic for top of toms. Great pickup and you can get to almost touching the heads Shure Beta 58. It is what it is. Back of a guitar cab, flip the phase and it works, Some vocal applications also. AKG D12e. perfect natural kick pickup without any hype. Love it for anything that borders on jazz or folk stuff AKD D112. Not sure why I still have this. Great for death metal vocals.
Those are ones I have and use all the time. I'm probably forgetting as many again. i.e. this is like 1/2 my dynamic mics.
P.S. Also have a bunch of RE 635 re10 re15 re16 mics. They all make good talkback microphones.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Mar 12, 2023 19:12:32 GMT -6
RE15? Good enough for bunch of Elvis' studio vocals... Good enough for me! Chris
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2023 19:29:15 GMT -6
EV, Beyerdynamic, Heil, Shure, higher end Sennheiser
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Mar 12, 2023 19:48:40 GMT -6
Beyer M69 (x2): live vocals, guitar cab, snare (sometimes) Beyer M88 (x2): everything Beyer M201 (x2): everything else EV RE16 (x2): alternate to the M201 on everything else. Unexpectedly good on weird sources (e.g., accordion) Lewitt MTP 550: my current live vocal mic. I need to see what this does on other sources.
|
|
|
Post by ab101 on Mar 12, 2023 19:54:20 GMT -6
Did a gig several days ago with the Lewitt MTP 550s, instead of our two Neumann KMS 105s, and wow - what a difference. The Lewitts really flattered our voices.
I recently acquired a mint EV ND408 and am looking forward to trying it on hand drums and maybe snare, etc. I had one in the late 1980s and loved it!
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Mar 12, 2023 20:35:05 GMT -6
Did a gig several days ago with the Lewitt MTP 550s, instead of our two Neumann KMS 105s, and wow - what a difference. The Lewitts really flattered our voices. I recently acquired a mint EV ND408 and am looking forward to trying it on hand drums and maybe snare, etc. I had one in the late 1980s and loved it! Those are good sources for a 408s!!!!
|
|
|
Post by donr on Mar 13, 2023 11:12:48 GMT -6
A thread about dynamics? They are Dyna-Mic! Wicked cool, pissahs. Favorites and what I like them for. Telefunken M80. Snare top. Crack snap BANG thud. More details than a typical SDC Senn M441. Snare bottom. Hypercardioid. Gets the snares and shell and nothing but Beyer M201. Hi hats. straight down, 9" above, opposite side of contact point. Nice off-axis rejection and easy on the ears Shure SM7. Great for guide vocals when tracking live off the floor. nothing else. That's it's only use. Shure Beta 57 gen 1. Fabulous on a piccolo snare. Yamaha MZ205be. Awesome on a bright or clingy snare. Senn MD421. Toms. But not top. BOTTOM heads. Proximiity is perfect Shure SM57. Guitar cabinet. Slightly off axis mid cone. Great alt to a Royer 121. EV RE20. Love this mic on inside kick. Natural full with great snap! T-Funk M82. also great on inside kick when you need more snap or click or point. Great for metal and hard rock EV 308 408 et al. Nice alternative mic for top of toms. Great pickup and you can get to almost touching the heads Shure Beta 58. It is what it is. Back of a guitar cab, flip the phase and it works, Some vocal applications also. AKG D12e. perfect natural kick pickup without any hype. Love it for anything that borders on jazz or folk stuff AKD D112. Not sure why I still have this. Great for death metal vocals. Those are ones I have and use all the time. I'm probably forgetting as many again. i.e. this is like 1/2 my dynamic mics. P.S. Also have a bunch of RE 635 re10 re15 re16 mics. They all make good talkback microphones. Been looking for a really good talkback mic.. : )
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Mar 13, 2023 11:47:07 GMT -6
Just ask a Teenager. They're the real experts. Especially the ones that are properly grounded. Chris
|
|
|
Post by rob61 on Mar 13, 2023 11:54:43 GMT -6
A thread about dynamics? They are Dyna-Mic! Wicked cool, pissahs. Favorites and what I like them for. Telefunken M80. Snare top. Crack snap BANG thud. More details than a typical SDC Senn M441. Snare bottom. Hypercardioid. Gets the snares and shell and nothing but Beyer M201. Hi hats. straight down, 9" above, opposite side of contact point. Nice off-axis rejection and easy on the ears Shure SM7. Great for guide vocals when tracking live off the floor. nothing else. That's it's only use. Shure Beta 57 gen 1. Fabulous on a piccolo snare. Yamaha MZ205be. Awesome on a bright or clingy snare. Senn MD421. Toms. But not top. BOTTOM heads. Proximiity is perfect Shure SM57. Guitar cabinet. Slightly off axis mid cone. Great alt to a Royer 121. EV RE20. Love this mic on inside kick. Natural full with great snap! T-Funk M82. also great on inside kick when you need more snap or click or point. Great for metal and hard rock EV 308 408 et al. Nice alternative mic for top of toms. Great pickup and you can get to almost touching the heads Shure Beta 58. It is what it is. Back of a guitar cab, flip the phase and it works, Some vocal applications also. AKG D12e. perfect natural kick pickup without any hype. Love it for anything that borders on jazz or folk stuff AKD D112. Not sure why I still have this. Great for death metal vocals. Those are ones I have and use all the time. I'm probably forgetting as many again. i.e. this is like 1/2 my dynamic mics. P.S. Also have a bunch of RE 635 re10 re15 re16 mics. They all make good talkback microphones. Been looking for a really good talkback mic.. : ) RCA 77DX works well
|
|
|
Post by phdamage on Mar 13, 2023 14:38:14 GMT -6
some good stuff here. Never heard of that Yamaha mic.
I use so few dynamics these days. m88 on guitar cab on occasion, m201 on snare batter, 441 on snare reso (if I can squeeze it in there - wish the thing wasn't so damn long!) and an Alien 8 inside kick is usually all I need.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
|
Post by ericn on Mar 13, 2023 16:12:41 GMT -6
The concept of a repairable dynamic has over the years fallen victim to “ pro audio “ really becoming “pro sumer “ audio. Sorry guys but as the dominant consumer has become more influential than the pro customer making it as cheaply as possible ( think robot assembly vs designing it to be fixed if there is a problem. The other thing with turning it into a throwaway is a manufacturer doesn’t need to carry a huge parts inventory to support each model.
|
|
|
Post by smashlord on Mar 13, 2023 20:44:18 GMT -6
I haven't really had any dynamics fail on me... ::knocks on wood:
Some I use often:
M201- Snare, guitar cab MD441- Snare bottom, female vox, horns D112- Floor tom (reallllllly excellent here) ATM25- Toms and very occasionally kick drum Sm57- I am uncool and still like this mic on lots of things.... snare, guitar cab, acoustic guitar, not terrible on rack toms in a pinch Sm7B- rock vox, bass cab, occasional snare Pr30- snare PR40- Kick out when there is no port... bass cab MD421- guitar cab, toms, bass cab, occasionally kick M88- kick and floor tom D12E- end of a kick tunnel, bass cab, kick with no port Shure Green bullet- Vox through a guitar amp, drum fx or mono drum room mic
|
|
|
Post by drumsound on Mar 13, 2023 23:11:43 GMT -6
As to modern dynamics, the sE V7 is a nice piece of kit.
|
|
|
Post by schmalzy on Mar 13, 2023 23:33:08 GMT -6
My M88 is from the late 60s/early 70s based on what they told me about the serial number. It regularly sees rippin' loud guitar cabs, snare side or top, drum close room, and overkick duties. Some bass cabs. Some vocals (with additional windscreen because I'm paranoid about breaking my favorite dynamic mic).
Heil PR40 gets a lot of love inside my kick for aggressive-music kick drums, snare bottom (GREAT there), snare top, guitar cabs, and bass cabs. If I had 5 of 'em I'd use them on toms and either snare bottom, overkick, or kick in. I have 1 because I'm cheap and I only buy used gear.
SM57 gets used for the things 57s get used for.
Fake SM57 gets used for the regular SM57 things. It doesn't sound as good but has been completely useful a number of times. I'm always THIS CLOSE to putting a different transformer in just to see what happens. I never do. I probably never will.
SM7B is a great mic no matter what anyone says. Great on aggressive vocals. Great for unhyped kick drums inside or out. Great for drum room. Great for snare. Great on guitar cabs. Great on bass cabs. It's a 57 but better (unless you need the 57's proximity effect).
Shure SM59 is midrangy and somewhat telephone-ish. I love it for dirty, shitty stuff that needs to be dirty and shitty. Crunchy tambourine? Fuck yeah. A little "kah" in your snare? Yes please. An especially midrangy distorted guitar track intended to augment a main distorted tone? Perfect.
Beta57 on snare when you need to minimize hihat bleed and don't mind adding a drum sample to make the natural performance sound better. I never like how it sounds but gets me a usable natural performance dynamic if the drummer hits the hats too hard. I can use a sample to blend and help the tone out but the Beta57 gives me the raw material of a high-velocity drum performance.
I have 5 Sennheiser e604s. 4 have all be hit countless times by metal drummers and 1 stays on the sidelines unless a drummer comes in with 5 toms specifically for the reason that I want to use it to compare to the others so I know when one goes bad. They all sound as identical as I'd ever expect them to. Still sound great. Also saved my ass in a pinch on batter-side-kick a couple times where pushy drummers came in wanting aggressive attack but wouldn't go with a port in their kick reso. I always know I'd have other battles I need to win so that e604 is a solution that buys some good will I can spend on other pushy moments I NEED to win.
D6 I don't have anymore (I had one on longterm borrow - basically a guy just left it with me and eventually wanted it back when he got a band together). Great as a quick solution for aggressive rock/metal kick. Better as a downtuned heavy music guitar cab mic to blend with a 57/M88/i5 because it can represent all the extended low end but has that scratchy, articulate top that's a little higher than the 57. Some big name metal guys use them on toms. Can be really good on bass cab when the kick drum sound you have is the opposite of what the D6 will give to a kick drum.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Mar 14, 2023 8:08:30 GMT -6
Audio Technica ATM25 is hands down the best tom mic out there.
I use a Audix D6 on kick exclusively. Drum needs to be tuned and the mic needs to be in the right location, but once done, it can't be beat.
I dislike the M201. Off-axis tone is extremely nasal and it's very thin sounding. The M80 wasn't great either and it didn't really sound any better than a 57. I think the Beta57 beats both handily.
|
|
|
Post by mcirish on Mar 14, 2023 9:17:23 GMT -6
Audio Technica ATM25 is hands down the best tom mic out there. I use a Audix D6 on kick exclusively. Drum needs to be tuned and the mic needs to be in the right location, but once done, it can't be beat. I dislike the M201. Off-axis tone is extremely nasal and it's very thin sounding. The M80 wasn't great either and it didn't really sound any better than a 57. I think the Beta57 beats both handily. The ATM25 isn't made anymore but the ATM230 pretty much sounds identical and is smaller so it's a bit easier to place. Someone had a video cutting back and forth between the mics. I think they were close enough that it wasn't worth paying 2x-3x to find a used ATM25. The ATM230's live on all my rack toms. I use a ATM250 on the 16" floor tom. I know a lot of people slag Audio Technica but I've found most all their mics to be quite usable. I wasn't a fan of the 4033 but the 4047, 4050 and 4060 are worth having. As previously mentioned, the ATM230 is very good. Much better on every source I used to use a MD421 on. I have to disagree with Dan on the i5. I think it's one of the best snare mics available. Also, the Beta 52A gets a lot of hate, but used as an inside kick mic WITH an external LDC, it works very good. I let it cover the tick and boom and get the body of the sound from the LDC, which in my case is the AT4047.
|
|