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Post by phdamage on Mar 15, 2023 19:22:57 GMT -6
Also, the Beta 52A gets a lot of hate... Wouldn't use the Beta 52 as a "go to" for kick but I think the hate is a bit overstated. It serves its purpose. Serviceable in a scenario where some random dude is liable to trip on the kick stand and smash the mic into the side of a drum or who knows what. Mine lives inside my kick when I don't want to think about it. When I do want to think about it I swap in my United Studios FET47 or vintage m88. It doesn't do anything special but it doesn't ruin the sound either and mine has lasted about a million years. oddly, I've had 3 different Beta 52s die on me over the years. Comically, the last one was like the one time in the last 5 years that I used one! Just sent to Shure along with like $100 and they sent me a brand new one. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 19:47:54 GMT -6
I'd probably say the M88 is one of the best dynamic's I've come across, prefer it to the MD441-U and in hindsight I'd have just bought the Beyer. However, I was doing a bit of karaoke singing with a few guests the other night and I got way more feedback in certain positions than I expected. I actually replaced it with a C800 clone which I preferred over the Beyer and it hardly fed back at all. Yes, I know using a relatively expensive C800 style condenser for karaoke is a bit out there but hey it was fun. Anyway my point is I'm not sure I'd use it live but it's a great sounding cheap mic to slap on guitar or bass cabs. Maybe even as a cheap yet effective studio vocal mic but in that situation I usally have a condensor that I prefer. So, it remains on guitar / bass cabs.. Just a small edit, if I were a one at a time self tracker looking for a mic to "do it all" (besides mic up a kit obviously) it would be the M88.
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Post by drumsound on Mar 17, 2023 22:49:42 GMT -6
I'd probably say the M88 is one of the best dynamic's I've come across, prefer it to the MD441-U and in hindsight I'd have just bought the Beyer. However, I was doing a bit of karaoke singing with a few guests the other night and I got way more feedback in certain positions than I expected. I actually replaced it with a C800 clone which I preferred over the Beyer and it hardly fed back at all. Yes, I know using a relatively expensive C800 style condenser for karaoke is a bit out there but hey it was fun. Anyway my point is I'm not sure I'd use it live but it's a great sounding cheap mic to slap on guitar or bass cabs. Maybe even as a cheap yet effective studio vocal mic but in that situation I usally have a condensor that I prefer. So, it remains on guitar / bass cabs.. Just a small edit, if I were a one at a time self tracker looking for a mic to "do it all" (besides mic up a kit obviously) it would be the M88.
M88 works great on a lot of parts of the drum set. Also, feel free to send me your 441 is its just collecting dust. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2023 10:28:55 GMT -6
M88 works great on a lot of parts of the drum set. Also, feel free to send me your 441 is its just collecting dust. You can buy it off me if you want, it's currently sat in its case doing nothing. This is the second MD-441 I've bought and it's not that old to be fair, you can tell because it looks brand new.
I was thinking about selling it off to KMR but I don't expect I'd get much for it.
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Post by mcirish on Mar 20, 2023 12:20:02 GMT -6
A little off topic - I just ordered an ATM25 from Japan. I needed another for my kit anyway. I will post back on final costs once I receive it in a few weeks. To close this out, I just received the ATM25 (new) from Japan. I bought it from a seller rockman8829. That was some pretty fast shipping and no customs charges. Hmmm... I wonder if I need more now. I paid $226.79 total for it. I will put it up against the ATM230 and ATM250 for kick and tom duties in a few days. I have to say, it's a much larger and heavier mic than the ATM230. The ATM230 has a clip on piece to attach to a drum rim. I think the ATM25 would be too heavy for that. I'd bet it might sound great on a bass cabinet as well. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 20, 2023 13:16:59 GMT -6
A little off topic - I just ordered an ATM25 from Japan. I needed another for my kit anyway. I will post back on final costs once I receive it in a few weeks. To close this out, I just received the ATM25 (new) from Japan. I bought it from a seller rockman8829. That was some pretty fast shipping and no customs charges. Hmmm... I wonder if I need more now. I paid $226.79 total for it. I will put it up against the ATM230 and ATM250 for kick and tom duties in a few days. I have to say, it's a much larger and heavier mic than the ATM230. The ATM230 has a clip on piece to attach to a drum rim. I think the ATM25 would be too heavy for that. I'd bet it might sound great on a bass cabinet as well. Cool, man! Glad it worked out. I'd love to continue hearing updates as you integrate it into your workflow. |
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Post by ab101 on Mar 20, 2023 14:17:52 GMT -6
A little off topic - I just ordered an ATM25 from Japan. I needed another for my kit anyway. I will post back on final costs once I receive it in a few weeks. To close this out, I just received the ATM25 (new) from Japan. I bought it from a seller rockman8829. That was some pretty fast shipping and no customs charges. Hmmm... I wonder if I need more now. I paid $226.79 total for it. I will put it up against the ATM230 and ATM250 for kick and tom duties in a few days. I have to say, it's a much larger and heavier mic than the ATM230. The ATM230 has a clip on piece to attach to a drum rim. I think the ATM25 would be too heavy for that. I'd bet it might sound great on a bass cabinet as well. Wow - ATM 25 new - that is awesome. I bought two that were basically mint, but to find new - well - wow! More versatile than the ATM23, richer and better for low toms and kick, but yet still works for snare, higher toms, hand drums, etc. I have not tried it on vocals, but I think that would be interesting! |
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Post by mcirish on Mar 20, 2023 14:20:56 GMT -6
To close this out, I just received the ATM25 (new) from Japan. I bought it from a seller rockman8829. That was some pretty fast shipping and no customs charges. Hmmm... I wonder if I need more now. I paid $226.79 total for it. I will put it up against the ATM230 and ATM250 for kick and tom duties in a few days. I have to say, it's a much larger and heavier mic than the ATM230. The ATM230 has a clip on piece to attach to a drum rim. I think the ATM25 would be too heavy for that. I'd bet it might sound great on a bass cabinet as well. Wow - ATM 25 new - that is awesome. I bought two that were basically mint, but to find new - well - wow! More versatile than the ATM23, richer and better for low toms and kick, but yet still works for snare, higher toms, hand drums, etc. I have not tried it on vocals, but I think that would be interesting! The guy I bought it from has a couple more and said I could get a discount. Might be tempting, though I already have more mics than I need. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 22, 2023 11:37:17 GMT -6
Wow - ATM 25 new - that is awesome. I bought two that were basically mint, but to find new - well - wow! More versatile than the ATM23, richer and better for low toms and kick, but yet still works for snare, higher toms, hand drums, etc. I have not tried it on vocals, but I think that would be interesting! The guy I bought it from has a couple more and said I could get a discount. Might be tempting, though I already have more mics than I need. You jerks just made me impulse buy an Atm25...my wallet is very mad at you  |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 22, 2023 12:07:30 GMT -6
The guy I bought it from has a couple more and said I could get a discount. Might be tempting, though I already have more mics than I need. You jerks just made me impulse buy an Atm25...my wallet is very mad at you All this ATM25 talk made my use mine on a guitar amp last night, and I think I might put it into the BD and put the e602 into the case for Saturday's drum session. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 22, 2023 12:19:48 GMT -6
You jerks just made me impulse buy an Atm25...my wallet is very mad at you All this ATM25 talk made my use mine on a guitar amp last night, and I think I might put it into the BD and put the e602 into the case for Saturday's drum session. Nice! Yeah I've always liked the ATM25 the few times I used one. I think I may retire my 421, throw her up on reverb, use the atm25 for kick and then buy an RE20 for a good all rounder dynamic...or maybe a 441... |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 22, 2023 12:44:46 GMT -6
All this ATM25 talk made my use mine on a guitar amp last night, and I think I might put it into the BD and put the e602 into the case for Saturday's drum session. Nice! Yeah I've always liked the ATM25 the few times I used one. I think I may retire my 421, throw her up on reverb, use the atm25 for kick and then buy an RE20 for a good all rounder dynamic...or maybe a 441... It hurts my soul every time I try to find a 441 that isn't $700 or more. I'd really like to have some experience with one before putting down that kind of money. I could pay more and have a new/returnable mic... |
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Post by chessparov on Mar 22, 2023 12:48:32 GMT -6
Wow - ATM 25 new - that is awesome. I bought two that were basically mint, but to find new - well - wow! More versatile than the ATM23, richer and better for low toms and kick, but yet still works for snare, higher toms, hand drums, etc. I have not tried it on vocals, but I think that would be interesting! The guy I bought it from has a couple more and said I could get a discount. Might be tempting, though I already have more mics than I need. "more mics than I need" Good portion of a Tombstone epitaph for more than one of us.  Chris |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 22, 2023 12:52:58 GMT -6
The guy I bought it from has a couple more and said I could get a discount. Might be tempting, though I already have more mics than I need. "more mics than I need" Good portion of a Tombstone epitaph for more than one of us. Chris I'm sorry, I do not understand your statement referring to having too many mics. That's not really a thing. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 22, 2023 13:22:53 GMT -6
Nice! Yeah I've always liked the ATM25 the few times I used one. I think I may retire my 421, throw her up on reverb, use the atm25 for kick and then buy an RE20 for a good all rounder dynamic...or maybe a 441... It hurts my soul every time I try to find a 441 that isn't $700 or more. I'd really like to have some experience with one before putting down that kind of money. I could pay more and have a new/returnable mic... I'm in the same situation. I've only rarely heard a 441 in action, but a few months back I was tracking in a studio I had never been in, so I was unfamiliar the room, mics, converters, console, monitor etc. Threw up a 441 on a Fender Super Reverb, came back into the control room and it sounded perfect. I've rarely had that experience. Ever since I've been really wanting one. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 22, 2023 13:55:46 GMT -6
It hurts my soul every time I try to find a 441 that isn't $700 or more. I'd really like to have some experience with one before putting down that kind of money. I could pay more and have a new/returnable mic... I'm in the same situation. I've only rarely hear a 441 in action, but a few months back I was tracking in a studio I had never been in, so I was unfamiliar the room, mics, converters, console, monitor etc. Threw up a 441 on a Fender Super Reverb, came back into the control room and it sounded perfect. I've rarely had that experience. Ever since I've been really wanting one. I got mine used here on RGO. Man, I love it. Never tried it on a guitar amp, but it’s great on voices. |
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Post by plinker on Mar 22, 2023 21:20:47 GMT -6
I'm in the same situation. I've only rarely hear a 441 in action, but a few months back I was tracking in a studio I had never been in, so I was unfamiliar the room, mics, converters, console, monitor etc. Threw up a 441 on a Fender Super Reverb, came back into the control room and it sounded perfect. I've rarely had that experience. Ever since I've been really wanting one. I got mine used here on RGO. Man, I love it. Never tried it on a guitar amp, but it’s great on voices. Just checked prices on 441 --- day-yem! Ouch. $1000, new.
Shit changes, huh?!
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Post by theboris on Mar 22, 2023 21:36:17 GMT -6
similarly, roughly a year ago i watched prices on beyer mics 201 and 88 steadily rise in UK outfits like thomann and others. IIRC it was 20-30% over a few months. yet still cheaper than state-side MAPs
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 22:22:52 GMT -6
"more mics than I need" Good portion of a Tombstone epitaph for more than one of us. Chris I'm sorry, I do not understand and statement referring to having too many mics. That's not really a thing. I'm not going to keep plugging stuff but I've got one up for sale at $500.00, however it'll probably cost 1 Billion to ship it. Anyway, it's a good mic but it needs an equally decent preamp, more than most to be fair. Sounds fine on the Shelford but with an SSL or interface preamps, hmmm..
I think the best way to describe the 441 is.. It's a very vintage sounding dynamic mic that's trying to be a condenser and in some ways it achieves it, in others it doesn't quite reach the mark. It's not as murky, nuance bereft or narrow sounding (after some extensive EQ) when compared to most dynamic's but it's not as sensitive or clear as some condensers either. It's not an unflattering mic and compared to the M88 there is some actual feedback rejection and the off-axis is superior.
I've never liked it on acoustic instruments but on vocals, snare (if you're brave), electric cabs or bass it can work wonders. So, definitely a good mic and if it cost half then I'd say collect the 441, a Beyer M88, A TLM 170 (or Gefell equiv) and if you're a one track at a time or drum free project studio then you have everything you need to create some serious sounding music. Problem is I can usually find a cheaper condenser to do the job (even SDC's can work on a wide variety of stuff) so unless you're tracking rock vocals or doing live work then I'm not sure.
P.S I am the worlds worst salesman.
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Post by chessparov on Mar 22, 2023 22:31:49 GMT -6
"more mics than I need" Good portion of a Tombstone epitaph for more than one of us. Chris I'm sorry, I do not understand and statement referring to having too many mics. That's not really a thing. I agree! And Shadow... 441 and M88 are my two fave Dynamics. Chris |
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Post by thermos on Jun 5, 2023 11:08:44 GMT -6
A little off topic - I just ordered an ATM25 from Japan. I needed another for my kit anyway. I will post back on final costs once I receive it in a few weeks. How do you find the Atm25 next to the atm230 on Toms and kick etc? |
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Post by Ward on Jun 5, 2023 11:30:39 GMT -6
"more mics than I need" Chris Who says such hurtful evil things?? People who don't love their kids, mom or dogs? What an awful thing to say. Well, that's it, I'm going gardening... my day is ruined now. |
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Post by ericn on Jun 5, 2023 11:48:45 GMT -6
A little off topic - I just ordered an ATM25 from Japan. I needed another for my kit anyway. I will post back on final costs once I receive it in a few weeks. How do you find the Atm25 next to the atm230 on Toms and kick etc? On lower Tom’s the 25 rules, actually better on floor Tom’s than kick, and meshes really well with 230’s on rack Tom’s. The only bitch with either is be careful you don’t cross thread them, you can cut new threads once after that your screwed, or you can’t be screwed? |
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Post by ericn on Jun 5, 2023 11:50:24 GMT -6
"more mics than I need" Chris Who says such hurtful evil things?? People who don't love their kids, mom or dogs? What an awful thing to say. Well, that's it, I'm going gardening... my day is ruined now. Hey remember when I had as many Dynamics as you had mics😁 I was Wards poor evil twin. |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 5, 2023 12:12:34 GMT -6
Took me a looooong time for me to better appreciate condensers.* At least I had vintage Shure 546/56/548/57 and EV 666/RE15/RE16. Along with Beyer Soundstars, both the 58/421 styles. Turned out EV 635a/767a and AKG D790... Matched my voice better overall. Current 58 helps "trash out" my Choirboy tonality when needed. Handy for ABBB and CCR "Gregg/John" type material! Countertenor is a Wild Card. It's a super high Soprano Coloratura (!) (As evaluated 30+ years ago-unlike my Wannabe Heldentenor  ) So is a weird thing for me to select which mic type/given song. Chris P.S. I still have the mental reliance on conventional Dynamics for heavier Rawk and Gospel vocals. Otherwise "Johnny Mathis sings AC/DC". LOL! |
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) So is a weird thing for me to select which mic type/given song.