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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 14, 2023 9:24:57 GMT -6
Audio Technica ATM25 is hands down the best tom mic out there. I use a Audix D6 on kick exclusively. Drum needs to be tuned and the mic needs to be in the right location, but once done, it can't be beat. I dislike the M201. Off-axis tone is extremely nasal and it's very thin sounding. The M80 wasn't great either and it didn't really sound any better than a 57. I think the Beta57 beats both handily. The ATM25 isn't made anymore but the ATM230 pretty much sounds identical and is smaller so it's a bit easier to place. Someone had a video cutting back and forth between the mics. I think they were close enough that it wasn't worth paying 2x-3x to find a used ATM25. The ATM230's live on all my rack toms. I use a ATM250 on the 16" floor tom. I know a lot of people slag Audio Technica but I've found most all their mics to be quite usable. I wasn't a fan of the 4033 but the 4047, 4050 and 4060 are worth having. As previously mentioned, the ATM230 is very good. Much better on every source I used to use a MD421 on. I remember this issue of the ATM25's availability coming up here sometime in the past couple years, and if my memory serves, it turns out that the ATM25 is still being made, and you can get it new online. It's just not for sale in the USA for some reason. There are a number of Japanese retailers that have brand new ones for sale. Now did AT stop making them, and all these Japanese retailers have a bunch of NOS mics sitting around? Maybe. But hey, they are available new. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 14, 2023 9:32:30 GMT -6
Audio Technica ATM25 is hands down the best tom mic out there. I use a Audix D6 on kick exclusively. Drum needs to be tuned and the mic needs to be in the right location, but once done, it can't be beat. I dislike the M201. Off-axis tone is extremely nasal and it's very thin sounding. The M80 wasn't great either and it didn't really sound any better than a 57. I think the Beta57 beats both handily. Also, the Beta 52A gets a lot of hate... Wouldn't use the Beta 52 as a "go to" for kick but I think the hate is a bit overstated. It serves its purpose. Serviceable in a scenario where some random dude is liable to trip on the kick stand and smash the mic into the side of a drum or who knows what. Mine lives inside my kick when I don't want to think about it. When I do want to think about it I swap in my United Studios FET47 or vintage m88. It doesn't do anything special but it doesn't ruin the sound either and mine has lasted about a million years. |
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Post by mcirish on Mar 14, 2023 10:38:24 GMT -6
A little off topic - I just ordered an ATM25 from Japan. I needed another for my kit anyway. I will post back on final costs once I receive it in a few weeks.
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Post by Ward on Mar 14, 2023 11:00:02 GMT -6
Been looking for a really good talkback mic.. : ) RCA 77DX works well We're wandering from the dynamics now . . .but WTH? A KM54 is even better! KM53 if you want everyone in the control room to have some say! |
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Post by plinker on Mar 14, 2023 11:01:27 GMT -6
Beyer M69 (x2): live vocals, guitar cab, snare (sometimes) Beyer M88 (x2): everything Beyer M201 (x2): everything else EV RE16 (x2): alternate to the M201 on everything else. Unexpectedly good on weird sources (e.g., accordion) Lewitt MTP 550: my current live vocal mic. I need to see what this does on other sources. I forgot to add the pitfalls: All my Beyer mics are TG (Touring Grade), so meant to withstand the rigors of the road. I'm not sure how true that is, but I've frequently used my M69 live and they seem to hold up. Beyer M88: when used inside kick the air blast entering the rear of the capsule/basket can damage the capsule. A foamy that covers the entire basket prevents this. Beyer M69 & 201: I've had problems with neither of these mics and your experience is the first I've heard of the 201. Is yours a TG or an earlier model? RE16: disintegrating foam over time. Easily fixable if you get to it in time, otherwise it can get messy. The mics are, otherwise, virtually indestructible. Lewitt 550: I've used it live about 10 times, and have had no problems. It's extremely well built! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2023 12:23:27 GMT -6
My M88 is from the late 60s/early 70s based on what they told me about the serial number. It regularly sees rippin' loud guitar cabs, snare side or top, drum close room, and overkick duties. Some bass cabs. Some vocals (with additional windscreen because I'm paranoid about breaking my favorite dynamic mic). Heil PR40 gets a lot of love inside my kick for aggressive-music kick drums, snare bottom (GREAT there), snare top, guitar cabs, and bass cabs. If I had 5 of 'em I'd use them on toms and either snare bottom, overkick, or kick in. I have 1 because I'm cheap and I only buy used gear. SM57 gets used for the things 57s get used for. Fake SM57 gets used for the regular SM57 things. It doesn't sound as good but has been completely useful a number of times. I'm always THIS CLOSE to putting a different transformer in just to see what happens. I never do. I probably never will. SM7B is a great mic no matter what anyone says. Great on aggressive vocals. Great for unhyped kick drums inside or out. Great for drum room. Great for snare. Great on guitar cabs. Great on bass cabs. It's a 57 but better (unless you need the 57's proximity effect). Shure SM59 is midrangy and somewhat telephone-ish. I love it for dirty, shitty stuff that needs to be dirty and shitty. Crunchy tambourine? Fuck yeah. A little "kah" in your snare? Yes please. An especially midrangy distorted guitar track intended to augment a main distorted tone? Perfect. Beta57 on snare when you need to minimize hihat bleed and don't mind adding a drum sample to make the natural performance sound better. I never like how it sounds but gets me a usable natural performance dynamic if the drummer hits the hats too hard. I can use a sample to blend and help the tone out but the Beta57 gives me the raw material of a high-velocity drum performance. I have 5 Sennheiser e604s. 4 have all be hit countless times by metal drummers and 1 stays on the sidelines unless a drummer comes in with 5 toms specifically for the reason that I want to use it to compare to the others so I know when one goes bad. They all sound as identical as I'd ever expect them to. Still sound great. Also saved my ass in a pinch on batter-side-kick a couple times where pushy drummers came in wanting aggressive attack but wouldn't go with a port in their kick reso. I always know I'd have other battles I need to win so that e604 is a solution that buys some good will I can spend on other pushy moments I NEED to win. D6 I don't have anymore (I had one on longterm borrow - basically a guy just left it with me and eventually wanted it back when he got a band together). Great as a quick solution for aggressive rock/metal kick. Better as a downtuned heavy music guitar cab mic to blend with a 57/M88/i5 because it can represent all the extended low end but has that scratchy, articulate top that's a little higher than the 57. Some big name metal guys use them on toms. Can be really good on bass cab when the kick drum sound you have is the opposite of what the D6 will give to a kick drum. The PR40 is an amazing kick mic and more natural than their dedicated “kick one” pr 48 that’s an eqed pr 35 capsule e604 is fine for your typical limp wristed metal drummer but if someone who can hit hard whacks it, it will sound sound shit forever. The e904 is its pro big brother. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 14, 2023 12:35:00 GMT -6
A little off topic - I just ordered an ATM25 from Japan. I needed another for my kit anyway. I will post back on final costs once I receive it in a few weeks. Excellent - I hope the whole process works as expected. I've thought about getting one this way, but honestly, I'm just not recording live drums much at all these days, so I haven't sprung for one... |
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Post by ab101 on Mar 14, 2023 15:59:44 GMT -6
A little off topic - I just ordered an ATM25 from Japan. I needed another for my kit anyway. I will post back on final costs once I receive it in a few weeks. One of my faves for smaller to larger hand drums on live performances. I picked up a couple in near mint condition on reverb. I did not like the newer versions (renumbered) as much. The ATM23 is also very good. |
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Post by theboris on Mar 14, 2023 20:52:50 GMT -6
Beyer M69 (x2): live vocals, guitar cab, snare (sometimes) Beyer M88 (x2): everything Beyer M201 (x2): everything else EV RE16 (x2): alternate to the M201 on everything else. Unexpectedly good on weird sources (e.g., accordion) Lewitt MTP 550: my current live vocal mic. I need to see what this does on other sources. I forgot to add the pitfalls: All my Beyer mics are TG (Touring Grade), so meant to withstand the rigors of the road. I'm not sure how true that is, but I used my M69 live and they seem to hold up. Beyer M88: when used inside kick the air blast entering the rear of the capsule/basket can damage the capsule. A foamy that covers the entire basket prevents this. Beyer M69 & 201: I've had problems with neither of these mics and your experience is the first I've heard of the 201. Is yours a TG or an earlier model? RE16: disintegrating foam over time. Easily fixable if you get to it in time, otherwise it can get messy. The mics are, otherwise, virtually indestructible. Lewitt 550: I've used it live about 10 times, and have had no problems. It's extremely well built! Yeah, it was a TG. Discovered failure on its 26 month! Was used on most sessions I had on snare (sometimes w/ SDC), but never subject to a huge burst of air AFAIK. Of course, something must have happened to cause the capsule to have such low output. Wires were intact, as best I could tell it was a torn capsule, I still have it somewhere but would need a good lens to see. I was surprised when I encountered a vintage one, as IIRC the vintage one felt beefier. Same size, just some different materials, it made me think that TG was nothing more than bad marketing! Based on the responses here, I'll go on and take a chance on an M88 later this year. Surprised to hear you say the EV RE line are indestructible, I keep reading of accounts that make me think of RE20 as a mic that will eventually need a refoaming that can lead to the baby death rattle that costs hundreds to repair! I've used them heavily but never owned any personally. |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 14, 2023 21:17:06 GMT -6
A little off topic - I just ordered an ATM25 from Japan. I needed another for my kit anyway. I will post back on final costs once I receive it in a few weeks. One of my faves for smaller to larger hand drums on live performances. I picked up a couple in near mint condition on reverb. I did not like the newer versions (renumbered) as much. The ATM23 is also very good. I've been using an ATM23he on snare since they came out. I sometimes try other things, to various satisfactions, but usually come back to the ATM23he. |
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Post by plinker on Mar 14, 2023 22:30:58 GMT -6
Surprised to hear you say the EV RE line are indestructible, I keep reading of accounts that make me think of RE20 as a mic that will eventually need a refoaming that can lead to the baby death rattle that costs hundreds to repair! I've used them heavily but never owned any personally. I was only speaking to the smaller EVs (RE10/11/15/16) as indestructible -- aside from the foam that has to be replaced, like all foam eventually does.
I don't own an RE20, but would like to!
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Post by Ward on Mar 15, 2023 7:31:26 GMT -6
Surprised to hear you say the EV RE line are indestructible, I keep reading of accounts that make me think of RE20 as a mic that will eventually need a refoaming that can lead to the baby death rattle that costs hundreds to repair! I've used them heavily but never owned any personally. I was only speaking to the smaller EVs (RE10/11/15/16) as indestructible -- aside from the foam that has to be replaced, like all foam eventually does. I don't own an RE20, but would like to!
Just my opinion, but i find the RE27 is 1000x better than an RE20. |
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Post by plinker on Mar 15, 2023 8:04:48 GMT -6
I was only speaking to the smaller EVs (RE10/11/15/16) as indestructible -- aside from the foam that has to be replaced, like all foam eventually does. I don't own an RE20, but would like to!
Just my opinion, but i find the RE27 is 1000x better than an RE20. That's quite intriguing.
Almost as intriguing as "No affiliations at this time".  |
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Post by Omicron9 on Mar 15, 2023 9:15:13 GMT -6
I was only speaking to the smaller EVs (RE10/11/15/16) as indestructible -- aside from the foam that has to be replaced, like all foam eventually does. I don't own an RE20, but would like to!
Just my opinion, but i find the RE27 is 1000x better than an RE20. Ward, why/how so? Curious. -09 |
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Post by Ward on Mar 15, 2023 9:34:43 GMT -6
Just my opinion, but i find the RE27 is 1000x better than an RE20. Ward, why/how so? Curious. -09 It's hotter. about 4-5db higher output. It has more headroom It has lower noise. It has better options on the switches for EQ tailoring It's more durable It doesn't have that 'gack' tone to it... like ever so slight but annoying nasal congestion And it looks better.  |
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Post by chessparov on Mar 15, 2023 9:45:25 GMT -6
The difference? Easy. RE27 -RE20 ------ 007 Chris Warning: RE20 fan here! Has been known to prefer it over RE27.  |
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Post by collywobble on Mar 15, 2023 10:32:45 GMT -6
I love the M88 on kick drum but they do tend to lose bottom end if used a lot in that role, if my friend's is anything to go by. The M69 and the old M67 are also nice Beyer mics. I like the Opus 65 too.
The Sennheiser MD409 is a great mic on toms and guitar cabs. Secondhand prices are insane, though.
AKG used to make some lovely dynamic mics. The D224 is one of the best mics ever made IMO, but unfortunately it's very fragile and tends to fail for no apparent reason. The D202 'rocket ship' is a very decent general purpose mic. I have a D222 'slightly smaller rocket ship' as well, which doesn't seem quite as good. And although the D19 is overhyped it does have a cool sound especially on acoustic guitar.
I've never really warmed to the RE20, but perhaps I've never heard a good one.
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Post by drumsound on Mar 15, 2023 11:11:02 GMT -6
I just realized recently that Beyer discontinued the M69. I was looking to possibly get a second one. They are great for scratch vocals in the room with drums because of the tight pattern and not hyped top.
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Post by plinker on Mar 15, 2023 11:12:49 GMT -6
It's hotter. about 4-5db higher output. It has more headroom It has lower noise. It has better options on the switches for EQ tailoring It's more durable It doesn't have that 'gack' tone to it... like ever so slight but annoying nasal congestion And it looks better. Is the 'gack' tone kind of an 'AM radio' sound? The RE16 has a bit of that. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 15, 2023 11:27:34 GMT -6
I was only speaking to the smaller EVs (RE10/11/15/16) as indestructible -- aside from the foam that has to be replaced, like all foam eventually does. I don't own an RE20, but would like to!
Just my opinion, but i find the RE27 is 1000x better than an RE20. It's hotter. about 4-5db higher output. It has more headroom It has lower noise. It has better options on the switches for EQ tailoring It's more durable It doesn't have that 'gack' tone to it... like ever so slight but annoying nasal congestion And it looks better. Is the 'gack' tone kind of an 'AM radio' sound? The RE16 has a bit of that. FWIW, I pretty much agree with Ward here. I've used a couple different RE20s over the years, but after Ward was singing the praises of the RE27 a couple years ago, I got one, and I think I agree with each of his points above. I've never called the tone of an RE20 "gack," but I have mentioned before how I think it's nasally and "pinched" sounding. It usually sounds kind of bandpassed to me on vocals at least. The RE27 doesn't have that "pinched" quality to it. It's a bit more open and natural sounding. Now, I also think it has a greater chance of getting a little too "crispy" on the wrong vocalist than the RE20 will ever have, but I think that's the tradeoff. Overall, I prefer the RE27. Thanks for turning me on to it a couple years back, Ward! (Oh, but one final point: I still prefer a Senn 441 to the RE27. If I could only have one, it'd be the 441. Thankfully, I can have both, and do.) |
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Post by robo on Mar 15, 2023 13:30:53 GMT -6
I just realized recently that Beyer discontinued the M69. I was looking to possibly get a second one. They are great for scratch vocals in the room with drums because of the tight pattern and not hyped top. I was going to buy an M69 recently when I saw it is no longer made. I needed something for scratch vocals and rehearsals that could be used in a recording if needed. I ended up getting a TG V70, and despite being a bit cheaper, it is a great mic. A detailed and balanced tone with a tight pattern. Worth a look! |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 15, 2023 15:05:19 GMT -6
I just realized recently that Beyer discontinued the M69. I was looking to possibly get a second one. They are great for scratch vocals in the room with drums because of the tight pattern and not hyped top. I was going to buy an M69 recently when I saw it is no longer made. I needed something for scratch vocals and rehearsals that could be used in a recording if needed. I ended up getting a TG V70, and despite being a bit cheaper, it is a great mic. A detailed and balanced tone with a tight pattern. Worth a look! How does bleed sound/how's the rejection when in the room with a drummer? |
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Post by plinker on Mar 15, 2023 15:46:55 GMT -6
I just realized recently that Beyer discontinued the M69. I was looking to possibly get a second one. They are great for scratch vocals in the room with drums because of the tight pattern and not hyped top. They used to get used a lot more in the 70s and 80s. I guess the pre-EQd/hyped-mids mics get all the glory now. As a bandmate once said to me (about my M69): "It sounds like it's already processed....but processed in a GOOD way!" Compared to most stage mics, I have to agree. |
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Post by robo on Mar 15, 2023 15:47:59 GMT -6
I was going to buy an M69 recently when I saw it is no longer made. I needed something for scratch vocals and rehearsals that could be used in a recording if needed. I ended up getting a TG V70, and despite being a bit cheaper, it is a great mic. A detailed and balanced tone with a tight pattern. Worth a look! How does bleed sound/how's the rejection when in the room with a drummer? I’ve just been using it on some practice demos so far but the bleed has been minimal and inoffensive, and the vocal sounds presentable - usable in a pinch. I’ve also got an M88 on a guitar cab in the same room and the bleed is more of a thing for whatever reason (probably timid playing and the angle to the kit). In the last I’ve used the M88 for live vocals, and as good as it sounds the proximity effect and sometimes plosive problems led me to look into something new. |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 15, 2023 16:24:24 GMT -6
How does bleed sound/how's the rejection when in the room with a drummer? I’ve just been using it on some practice demos so far but the bleed has been minimal and inoffensive, and the vocal sounds presentable - usable in a pinch. I’ve also got an M88 on a guitar cab in the same room and the bleed is more of a thing for whatever reason (probably timid playing and the angle to the kit). In the last I’ve used the M88 for live vocals, and as good as it sounds the proximity effect and sometimes plosive problems led me to look into something new. I've used an M88 for scratch vocals a ton of times, but more often I want them on toms. I use the M69 a lot, but I'm doing something with 2 singers both wanting to sing scratch parts. I put an RE10 up, for the other singer on the first session and the cymbals were taking over. Almost as bad as a 57 with ugly bleed. I was quite surprised how well an SM7 did on the second session. |
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