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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 8, 2023 20:04:16 GMT -6
I don't find my Oktava 012's to be dark at all. I find them quite bright actually no matter what I run them through. I guess it's relative because I find all SDC's very bright and the 012's are at least tolerable enough that use them in some places.
Following this thread with interest. I'd love to be able to set up some overheads where I don't immediately have to roll off the top.
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Post by drumsound on Mar 8, 2023 20:40:29 GMT -6
I don't find my Oktava 012's to be dark at all. I find them quite bright actually no matter what I run them through. I guess it's relative because I find all SDC's very bright and the 012's are at least tolerable enough that use them in some places. Following this thread with interest. I'd love to be able to set up some overheads where I don't immediately have to roll off the top. I find AT Pro37 (less expensive) and Rode TF5 (more expensive) brighterthan the Octavas. Mine are older and haven't had any mods. |
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Post by ragan on Mar 9, 2023 0:44:13 GMT -6
I don't find my Oktava 012's to be dark at all. I find them quite bright actually no matter what I run them through. I guess it's relative because I find all SDC's very bright and the 012's are at least tolerable enough that use them in some places. Following this thread with interest. I'd love to be able to set up some overheads where I don't immediately have to roll off the top. I'm curious, why use SDCs at all? I'm kinda in the same boat, I almost always find any SDC too bright for what I want. Not necessarily 'bad' bright, but just so much air. I dunno, I feel like every few months I try to incorporate SDCs again, and still just prefer LDCs, dynamics, ribbons. |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 9, 2023 8:38:44 GMT -6
I don't find my Oktava 012's to be dark at all. I find them quite bright actually no matter what I run them through. I guess it's relative because I find all SDC's very bright and the 012's are at least tolerable enough that use them in some places. Following this thread with interest. I'd love to be able to set up some overheads where I don't immediately have to roll off the top. If you have them available, try 414 bULS. I know they aren't SDCs but they are kind of the opposite of EBs and the newer 414s. |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 9, 2023 9:30:55 GMT -6
Oktava are similar bright to older MKH like 405/406. The MKH have more sense of space and depth. 20/30/40 can seem dark compared to most things. I’ve settled on Oktava omni over MKH20 for the grand piano on the radio show, as the piano is bright/hard and the mkh is a little brutally true. The oktava has some useful smear to it. http://instagram.com/p/CpkqI_ktOxV |
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Post by Omicron9 on Mar 9, 2023 10:37:42 GMT -6
Try an Omni, many of the cardiods have an HF boost to compensate for the LF boost you get from proximity effects and close micing, while it won’t necessarily be dark it will probably be better balanced and that might be what you want. Thanks, Eric. I have both cardioid and omni caps for the AKG 460s. Have used Gefell M-295/6, and the 296 is omni. Have tried omni caps on Oktavas, and own a pair of Shure KSM-141, which have omni. Had Neumann KM-184 and KM-183 (omni) Top end was still a bit more than I want in each case. -09 |
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Post by Omicron9 on Mar 9, 2023 10:39:49 GMT -6
I don't find my Oktava 012's to be dark at all. I find them quite bright actually no matter what I run them through. I guess it's relative because I find all SDC's very bright and the 012's are at least tolerable enough that use them in some places. Following this thread with interest. I'd love to be able to set up some overheads where I don't immediately have to roll off the top. If you have them available, try 414 bULS. I know they aren't SDCs but they are kind of the opposite of EBs and the newer 414s. I have used the 414 B-ULS and like those a lot. However, I don't get the stereo field/separation with LDC pairs that I like with SDC pairs. I've tried many many many LDCs. The usual suspects: Neumann, AKG, Gefell, Shure, et. al. So it's SDC for the stereo field win for me. -09 |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 9, 2023 11:07:54 GMT -6
I don't find my Oktava 012's to be dark at all. I find them quite bright actually no matter what I run them through. I guess it's relative because I find all SDC's very bright and the 012's are at least tolerable enough that use them in some places. Following this thread with interest. I'd love to be able to set up some overheads where I don't immediately have to roll off the top. I'm curious, why use SDCs at all? I'm kinda in the same boat, I almost always find any SDC too bright for what I want. Not necessarily 'bad' bright, but just so much air. I dunno, I feel like every few months I try to incorporate SDCs again, and still just prefer LDCs, dynamics, ribbons. Well you basically answered the question for me. Every few months I'm like "this is a wide spread practice, maybe I'm missing something" and then I'm like "nope". Right now I'm actually using an 012 and a Beyer m160 for overheads. Doing kind of a modified x/y but with mics with much different sounds. m160 pointed at the snare, 012 pointed at low tom. I don't like close miking toms so my theory is that having the unmatched L/R gives me a wider field on the drums than the "super mono" that X/Y gives. Also, a lot of times I'm mixing drums in mono anyway (style choice) so I can use those two faders like I would on a guitar amp to mix in the darker and brighter sound instead of EQ. Maybe I should just buy another m160. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 9, 2023 11:10:06 GMT -6
I don't find my Oktava 012's to be dark at all. I find them quite bright actually no matter what I run them through. I guess it's relative because I find all SDC's very bright and the 012's are at least tolerable enough that use them in some places. Following this thread with interest. I'd love to be able to set up some overheads where I don't immediately have to roll off the top. If you have them available, try 414 bULS. I know they aren't SDCs but they are kind of the opposite of EBs and the newer 414s. I've been on the hunt for one of those at a reasonable price for a while. Seems like people want to trade them for bricks of gold these days. There was one for sale locally for $1k that looked like it had been fished out of the back of a dump truck. Sounded clean but I just couldn't work up the confidence to take a chance. Thing was seriously beat up. $1k. |
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Post by christopher on Mar 9, 2023 11:32:26 GMT -6
Have you tried Schoeps? They aren’t cheap at all, but maybe that’s the thing you are hunting?
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 9, 2023 12:19:13 GMT -6
yeah some MK21 or Mk2's are pretty great. I love Schoeps mics. Have a lot in the locker here.
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Post by bikescene on Mar 9, 2023 12:29:44 GMT -6
Right now I'm actually using an 012 and a Beyer m160 for overheads. Doing kind of a modified x/y but with mics with much different sounds. m160 pointed at the snare, 012 pointed at low tom. I don't like close miking toms so my theory is that having the unmatched L/R gives me a wider field on the drums than the "super mono" that X/Y gives. I’m going to try that OH combination. I’ve never considered combining my lone M160 with another mic that way. Although not a SDC, the M160 is nice as an instrument mic. It’s not as dark as other ribbons that I’ve tried. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 9, 2023 12:56:45 GMT -6
Right now I'm actually using an 012 and a Beyer m160 for overheads. Doing kind of a modified x/y but with mics with much different sounds. m160 pointed at the snare, 012 pointed at low tom. I don't like close miking toms so my theory is that having the unmatched L/R gives me a wider field on the drums than the "super mono" that X/Y gives. I’m going to try that OH combination. I’ve never considered combining my lone M160 with another mic that way. Although not a SDC, the M160 is nice as an instrument mic. It’s not as dark as other ribbons that I’ve tried. I'm pretty obsessed with the m160. Wish I had 8 of them. |
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Post by plinker on Mar 9, 2023 13:02:07 GMT -6
Have you tried Schoeps? They aren’t cheap at all, but maybe that’s the thing you are hunting? yeah some MK21 or Mk2's are pretty great. I love Schoeps mics. Have a lot in the locker here.
See the long-ass CM3 thread in the Remote forum on the purple site.
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Post by jaba on Mar 9, 2023 13:44:35 GMT -6
I'm curious, why use SDCs at all? I'm kinda in the same boat, I almost always find any SDC too bright for what I want. Not necessarily 'bad' bright, but just so much air. I dunno, I feel like every few months I try to incorporate SDCs again, and still just prefer LDCs, dynamics, ribbons. Well you basically answered the question for me. Every few months I'm like "this is a wide spread practice, maybe I'm missing something" and then I'm like "nope". Right now I'm actually using an 012 and a Beyer m160 for overheads. Doing kind of a modified x/y but with mics with much different sounds. m160 pointed at the snare, 012 pointed at low tom. I don't like close miking toms so my theory is that having the unmatched L/R gives me a wider field on the drums than the "super mono" that X/Y gives. Also, a lot of times I'm mixing drums in mono anyway (style choice) so I can use those two faders like I would on a guitar amp to mix in the darker and brighter sound instead of EQ. Maybe I should just buy another m160. Some of the best reactions I've gotten from drummers I've recorded was when I used a pair of M160s as OHs. They're not right for every project but when they work, they're one of my favorite OH pairs. And seeing as they're super useful elsewhere, get another! I'm also a pretty big fan of mis-matched mics as OHs as well. Again, not for every project but it does give you a surprising number of options come mix time. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 9, 2023 13:49:50 GMT -6
Well you basically answered the question for me. Every few months I'm like "this is a wide spread practice, maybe I'm missing something" and then I'm like "nope". Right now I'm actually using an 012 and a Beyer m160 for overheads. Doing kind of a modified x/y but with mics with much different sounds. m160 pointed at the snare, 012 pointed at low tom. I don't like close miking toms so my theory is that having the unmatched L/R gives me a wider field on the drums than the "super mono" that X/Y gives. Also, a lot of times I'm mixing drums in mono anyway (style choice) so I can use those two faders like I would on a guitar amp to mix in the darker and brighter sound instead of EQ. Maybe I should just buy another m160. Some of the best reactions I've gotten from drummers I've recorded was when I used a pair of M160s as OHs. They're not right for every project but when they work, they're one of my favorite OH pairs. And seeing as they're super useful elsewhere, get another! I'm also a pretty big fan of mis-matched mics as OHs as well. Again, not for every project but it does give you a surprising number of options come mix time. "Not for every project" being the key words here. I wish that these forums included everyone's typical style that they work in and their personal preference as well with every post. The drum sounds that I like would be cluttered in a metal mix and straight up "wrong" in a dance mix. But I do the rootsy, Americana, indie-folk type stuff and what I like works for the people I work with.... usually. If I got hired for a metal project would I mic the kit with my standard four mic approach. Hell no. Etc etc. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 9, 2023 14:27:57 GMT -6
I was at a shootout with Neumann's vs Soyuz mics. They happened to include a Beezneez SDC. It was dark as hell, but surprisingly, really interesting. I thought it would be a perfect fit in a Nick Cave recording of a piano. It had so much vibe you'd love to have it around, just in case that was what you were looking for. I like the Soyuz FET SDC in place of a KM84, but Soyuz does have a new mic might you want to look at, the 1973. It has a kind of dark character, but I like what that does with acoustic guitar. Maybe take a look at the Soyuz 1973 online, and then see if there's anything on youtube with the Beezneez SDC you can listen to. soyuzmicrophones.com/1973-series |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 14:56:19 GMT -6
Don't be afraid to de-ess your overheads.
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Post by jaba on Mar 9, 2023 15:08:23 GMT -6
Some of the best reactions I've gotten from drummers I've recorded was when I used a pair of M160s as OHs. They're not right for every project but when they work, they're one of my favorite OH pairs. And seeing as they're super useful elsewhere, get another! I'm also a pretty big fan of mis-matched mics as OHs as well. Again, not for every project but it does give you a surprising number of options come mix time. "Not for every project" being the key words here. I wish that these forums included everyone's typical style that they work in and their personal preference as well with every post. The drum sounds that I like would be cluttered in a metal mix and straight up "wrong" in a dance mix. But I do the rootsy, Americana, indie-folk type stuff and what I like works for the people I work with.... usually. If I got hired for a metal project would I mic the kit with my standard four mic approach. Hell no. Etc etc. Sounds like we work in similar genres (though l've done and loved working on my share of metal/ dance/ etc). So many comments I've read on these forums over the years make way more sense once I know the style of music they're working on and what kind of production they like. |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 9, 2023 16:24:12 GMT -6
If you have them available, try 414 bULS. I know they aren't SDCs but they are kind of the opposite of EBs and the newer 414s. I have used the 414 B-ULS and like those a lot. However, I don't get the stereo field/separation with LDC pairs that I like with SDC pairs. I've tried many many many LDCs. The usual suspects: Neumann, AKG, Gefell, Shure, et. al. So it's SDC for the stereo field win for me. -09 That makes sense. I have some LDC up as overs right now, but my room kind of prefers SDC. If you have them available, try 414 bULS. I know they aren't SDCs but they are kind of the opposite of EBs and the newer 414s. I've been on the hunt for one of those at a reasonable price for a while. Seems like people want to trade them for bricks of gold these days. There was one for sale locally for $1k that looked like it had been fished out of the back of a dump truck. Sounded clean but I just couldn't work up the confidence to take a chance. Thing was seriously beat up. $1k. I didn't realize those have shot up in price. I had one for a long time and I only ever REALLY liked it on overheads. When mjau lived in town, I'd borrow his for a pair. I got to the point where I either needed a second, or get rid of that one, and that's what I did. |
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Post by woofhead on Mar 9, 2023 16:44:53 GMT -6
beyer mc834 is another idea its a medium diaphragm thats great for acoustic instruments and can go for around 400 used if you're lucky
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Post by tackhouse on Mar 9, 2023 17:08:01 GMT -6
I like Advanced Audio’s CM28 small diaphragm condenser tube microphone. It’s got a good vibe. I have a matched pair.
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Post by sirthought on Mar 9, 2023 17:22:49 GMT -6
Don't be afraid to de-ess your overheads. He's obviously using the Grace pres, but I have chosen the UAD Voxbox in the unison slot just to use the De-es function for taming cymbal sizzle. I thought it worked really well with the Okatava 012's. And this was on the way in, not afterwards. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 17:49:01 GMT -6
Don't be afraid to de-ess your overheads. He's obviously using the Grace pres, but I have chosen the UAD Voxbox in the unison slot just to use the De-es function for taming cymbal sizzle. I thought it worked really well with the Okatava 012's. And this was on the way in, not afterwards. very cool. i like to usetdr nova ge surgical mode to de-ess whistle and crashes. the oxford dynamic eq also works. also i like to use tdr de-edger or oxford envolution to tame high hats. if those don't work, the psp infinistrip de-esser will haze over the cymbals and waves bss dpr 402 will take them entirely out of the recording. i don't like the oxford suppressor though for this because it's linear phase crossover will soften and dull everything when you de-ess, which i guess can be good.
pro audio dsp dsm 3 is also a life saver and better than the all of the post sony and paul frindle sonnox oxford plugins i mentioned. those are very good but not as unique in their functionality as the older ones and the dsm.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 9, 2023 20:01:25 GMT -6
Don't be afraid to de-ess your overheads. That's exactly what I do. Good advice. |
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