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Post by Quint on Feb 16, 2023 17:38:01 GMT -6
I'd love for UA to do a standalone DSP box with no conversion or analog I/o, similar to an HDX card, but with thunderbolt, and then we could use whatever converters we wanted via AES, adat, or whatever. Isn't that exactly the idea behind the Satellite line? The satellite doesn't work at low latency. The idea I was suggesting was basically an Apollo, but without the conversion. Just DSP, TB for connection to the computer, and a digital connections(s) for connecting your converters of choice. |
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Post by copperx on Feb 16, 2023 19:14:40 GMT -6
 Isn't this deceptive advertising at its finest? Granted, it doesn't say ALL plugins are native, but I wouldn't fault you for assuming so. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 16, 2023 19:21:25 GMT -6
Not quite deceptive, but it could have been clearer. "Some UAD Plugins" or "Select" wouldn't work, but they might have said " an incredible limited collection".
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 16, 2023 19:29:09 GMT -6
Or too smart by half, as “collection” was carefully chosen( excuse the pun), to convey an unclear number, a subset or complete : it doesn’t say:)
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Post by ab101 on Feb 17, 2023 3:19:35 GMT -6
View AttachmentIsn't this deceptive advertising at its finest? Granted, it doesn't say ALL plugins are native, but I wouldn't fault you for assuming so. Are all the plugins that are in the graphic going to work with any interface? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 17, 2023 4:30:52 GMT -6
UadX plugs run natively, so interface shouldn’t matter.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 17, 2023 4:33:39 GMT -6
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Post by keymod on Feb 17, 2023 5:01:55 GMT -6
I'd love for UA to do a standalone DSP box with no conversion or analog I/o, similar to an HDX card, but with thunderbolt, and then we could use whatever converters we wanted via AES, adat, or whatever. It exists it’s called a thunderbolt to PCIE chassis, choose your card and I/O We have four Octo and two Quad cards in a Sonnet rack-mount tbolt chassis, connected to our Mac Studio |
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 17, 2023 8:10:24 GMT -6
I'm just guessing, but based on recent events (the shakeup with the mic dept, the introduction of Native versions of the plugins, etc,) That UA long term plans probably include closing down the DSP section slowly, but not to offer much in the way of additional support and probably to not introduce anything new in that area. My guess is that they're probably going to get out of hardware completely in the long run - their reproductions of classic hardware are overpriced and, in many or most cases, outclassed by "clones"... And there's not much point in runnming a DSP box that I can see, once everything has been ported.
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Post by ericn on Feb 17, 2023 9:30:17 GMT -6
I'm just guessing, but based on recent events (the shakeup with the mic dept, the introduction of Native versions of the plugins, etc,) That UA long term plans probably include closing down the DSP section slowly, but not to offer much in the way of additional support and probably to not introduce anything new in that area. My guess is that they're probably going to get out of hardware completely in the long run - their reproductions of classic hardware are overpriced and, in many or most cases, outclassed by "clones"... And there's not much point in runnming a DSP box that I can see, once everything has been ported. John I think it all depends on how UAD put their licensing agreements with manufacturers together, if they say in there somewhere that Neve only licenses them for use with dedicated DSP we may see cards and satellites for a while. |
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 17, 2023 9:37:58 GMT -6
I'm just guessing, but based on recent events (the shakeup with the mic dept, the introduction of Native versions of the plugins, etc,) That UA long term plans probably include closing down the DSP section slowly, but not to offer much in the way of additional support and probably to not introduce anything new in that area. My guess is that they're probably going to get out of hardware completely in the long run - their reproductions of classic hardware are overpriced and, in many or most cases, outclassed by "clones"... And there's not much point in runnming a DSP box that I can see, once everything has been ported. John I think it all depends on how UAD put their licensing agreements with manufacturers together, if they say in there somewhere that Neve only licenses them for use with dedicated DSP we may see cards and satellites for a while.
Well, yeah, maybe, but wouldn't Neve simply renegotiate the contract? Seems to me it would be in their favor in the long run.
If I was UA I'd be looking to get rid of "dead weight" asap. It doesn't seem to me like their heart is into that aspect of things much anymore, except for PR purposes.
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Post by Quint on Feb 17, 2023 9:56:42 GMT -6
John I think it all depends on how UAD put their licensing agreements with manufacturers together, if they say in there somewhere that Neve only licenses them for use with dedicated DSP we may see cards and satellites for a while.
If I was UA I'd be looking to get rid of "dead weight" asap. It doesn't seem to me like their heart is into that aspect of things much anymore, except for PR purposes.
Issues with the Bock situation aside (which we don't even know for sure what happened there), it may appear to some that UA is flailing or whatever, but I don't believe that to be the case. Sure, I get that, to the casual observer, and especially someone who isn't a UA customer, it may appear this way, but these seemingly disconnected moving parts, that are all kind of going on at the same time, will eventually all fit together as pieces of the larger puzzle, I think. I get that the UA of old, is different from the UA of now, but if UA had just stayed the same and never changed, I don't think there would be a UA anymore, given how much the music business has changed over the last few decades. Even Avid, which has been the 900 lb gorilla for years, had to move in a similar direction. Carbon/hybrid engine/etc. is evidence of that. So people can complain about moves that UA is making, but I don't know what choice they really had. Times are changing. The transition to include native in the UA ecosystem was always going to be a little messy, but I think that it will all pay off in the long run. Luna is looking really promising, and is a big part of all of this. From a creator standpoint, these newer tools that exist (not just from UA) are changing the game and really making it possible for artists to do things in a recording environment that they could have only ever dreamed of or, in some cases, never even contemplated. (Look at Wiz's recent thread for an example of what can be achieved) Let's see where things are in the next three years and then see how people are feeling about UA. |
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Post by ericn on Feb 17, 2023 10:03:19 GMT -6
John I think it all depends on how UAD put their licensing agreements with manufacturers together, if they say in there somewhere that Neve only licenses them for use with dedicated DSP we may see cards and satellites for a while.
Well, yeah, maybe, but wouldn't Neve simply renegotiate the contract? Seems to me it would be in their favor in the long run.
If I was UA I'd be looking to get rid of "dead weight" asap. It doesn't seem to me like their heart is into that aspect of things much anymore, except for PR purposes.
Depends if someone else has an exclusive native lic, or if they eventually want to bring it in house. |
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Post by copperx on Feb 17, 2023 11:28:00 GMT -6
I'm just guessing, but based on recent events (the shakeup with the mic dept, the introduction of Native versions of the plugins, etc,) That UA long term plans probably include closing down the DSP section slowly, but not to offer much in the way of additional support and probably to not introduce anything new in that area. My guess is that they're probably going to get out of hardware completely in the long run - their reproductions of classic hardware are overpriced and, in many or most cases, outclassed by "clones"... And there's not much point in runnming a DSP box that I can see, once everything has been ported. So, you predict UA is going to close shop altogether? Or what other profit centers do they have? Afaik it's only DSP and hardware, right? |
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Post by sirthought on Feb 17, 2023 12:02:23 GMT -6
I think when Drew said something would be coming for DSP he meant new plugins. But we'll see. That would be my guess.
Updated converters, AVB or Dante, or AES could all be possible. But they are one of the most successful interfaces without those features.
It might be interesting to see an interface with both sharcs and an ARM processor on board. Not sure what that might offer, but anything that takes latency down before the DAW is bonus.
Heat is a big issue with increasing the number of sharcs in an Apollo. So if they do add more expect a larger chassis.
I disagree with John. They will still invest in DSP for years to come. It still performs well for tracking. Digi design still pushes it, as do Metric Halo. And now with Native switching there's actually a selling advantage over something like Clarett because you have a choice.
And the hardware processing might not be growing but they are increasing hardware in the form of mics, Oxbox and pedals. They are more well rounded than ever for the contemporary recording engineer.
One area that might not be on the radar but wouldn't surprise me is if they take on the Trinov type of product. That would be DSP and something that could expand market share for Apollo and LUNA and be something people have asked for.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 17, 2023 12:29:35 GMT -6
And a controller.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 17, 2023 14:13:29 GMT -6
I'm just guessing, but based on recent events (the shakeup with the mic dept, the introduction of Native versions of the plugins, etc,) That UA long term plans probably include closing down the DSP section slowly, but not to offer much in the way of additional support and probably to not introduce anything new in that area. My guess is that they're probably going to get out of hardware completely in the long run - their reproductions of classic hardware are overpriced and, in many or most cases, outclassed by "clones"... And there's not much point in runnming a DSP box that I can see, once everything has been ported. So, you predict UA is going to close shop altogether? Or what other profit centers do they have? Afaik it's only DSP and hardware, right? Did you miss the topic of the thread? UA has gone native. Not all the way - yet - but once it starts I see no reason for them to continue with DSP development, which will be redundant. Why compete with themselves? |
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 17, 2023 14:23:19 GMT -6
I think when Drew said something would be coming for DSP he meant new plugins. But we'll see. That would be my guess. Updated converters, AVB or Dante, or AES could all be possible. But they are one of the most successful interfaces without those features. It might be interesting to see an interface with both sharcs and an ARM processor on board. Not sure what that might offer, but anything that takes latency down before the DAW is bonus. Heat is a big issue with increasing the number of sharcs in an Apollo. So if they do add more expect a larger chassis. I disagree with John. They will still invest in DSP for years to come. It still performs well for tracking. Digi design still pushes it, as do Metric Halo. And now with Native switching there's actually a selling advantage over something like Clarett because you have a choice. And the hardware processing might not be growing but they are increasing hardware in the form of mics, Oxbox and pedals. They are more well rounded than ever for the contemporary recording engineer. One area that might not be on the radar but wouldn't surprise me is if they take on the Trinov type of product. That would be DSP and something that could expand market share for Apollo and LUNA and be something people have asked for. They are NOT increasing hardware. The just canned the best mic guy they'll ever be able to get - and I would put the odds that they can be successful without him on the stuff he already designed at slim to none - there are too many little details that they don't know anything about - because they canned their mic guy. They've already done a fair job of torpedoing their reissues of the classic compressors among anyone with properly functioning ears.
Pedals? UA becoming a PEDAL COMPANY? That's funny. NOT what I would call progress.
Something you don't seem to get is that doing hardware is in every way more resource intensive (costly) than software, as well as being a huger PITA to deal with business-wise than software. The reason you do hardware is because you love hardware. I'm not seeing a whole lot of love for hardware from the people who appear to be steering UA.
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Post by ericn on Feb 17, 2023 14:35:55 GMT -6
I think when Drew said something would be coming for DSP he meant new plugins. But we'll see. That would be my guess. Updated converters, AVB or Dante, or AES could all be possible. But they are one of the most successful interfaces without those features. It might be interesting to see an interface with both sharcs and an ARM processor on board. Not sure what that might offer, but anything that takes latency down before the DAW is bonus. Heat is a big issue with increasing the number of sharcs in an Apollo. So if they do add more expect a larger chassis. I disagree with John. They will still invest in DSP for years to come. It still performs well for tracking. Digi design still pushes it, as do Metric Halo. And now with Native switching there's actually a selling advantage over something like Clarett because you have a choice. And the hardware processing might not be growing but they are increasing hardware in the form of mics, Oxbox and pedals. They are more well rounded than ever for the contemporary recording engineer. One area that might not be on the radar but wouldn't surprise me is if they take on the Trinov type of product. That would be DSP and something that could expand market share for Apollo and LUNA and be something people have asked for. They are NOT increasing hardware. The just canned the best mic guy they'll ever be able to get - and I would put the odds that they can be successful without him on the stuff he already designed at slim to none - there are too many little details that they don't know anything about - because they canned their mic guy. They've already done a fair job of torpedoing their reissues of the classic compressors among anyone with properly functioning ears.
Pedals? UA becoming a PEDAL COMPANY? That's funny. NOT what I would call progress.
Something you don't seem to get is that doing hardware is in every way more resource intensive (costly) than software, as well as being a huger PITA to deal with business-wise than software. The reason you do hardware is because you love hardware. I'm not seeing a whole lot of love for hardware from the people who appear to be steering UA.
I think you will see more interface and maybe some other UA labled hardware, but what the pivot from DSP based plugins means is they like so many others can now Slap the UA lable on a bunch of generic OEM made in China interfaces and once they build relationships with these OEMs other Generic products. |
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Post by sirthought on Feb 17, 2023 14:41:28 GMT -6
I think when Drew said something would be coming for DSP he meant new plugins. But we'll see. That would be my guess. Updated converters, AVB or Dante, or AES could all be possible. But they are one of the most successful interfaces without those features. It might be interesting to see an interface with both sharcs and an ARM processor on board. Not sure what that might offer, but anything that takes latency down before the DAW is bonus. Heat is a big issue with increasing the number of sharcs in an Apollo. So if they do add more expect a larger chassis. I disagree with John. They will still invest in DSP for years to come. It still performs well for tracking. Digi design still pushes it, as do Metric Halo. And now with Native switching there's actually a selling advantage over something like Clarett because you have a choice. And the hardware processing might not be growing but they are increasing hardware in the form of mics, Oxbox and pedals. They are more well rounded than ever for the contemporary recording engineer. One area that might not be on the radar but wouldn't surprise me is if they take on the Trinov type of product. That would be DSP and something that could expand market share for Apollo and LUNA and be something people have asked for. They are NOT increasing hardware. The just canned the best mic guy they'll ever be able to get - and I would put the odds that they can be successful without him on the stuff he already designed at slim to none - there are too many little details that they don't know anything about - because they canned their mic guy. They've already done a fair job of torpedoing their reissues of the classic compressors among anyone with properly functioning ears.
Pedals? UA becoming a PEDAL COMPANY? That's funny. NOT what I would call progress.
Something you don't seem to get is that doing hardware is in every way more resource intensive (costly) than software, as well as being a huger PITA to deal with business-wise than software. The reason you do hardware is because you love hardware. I'm not seeing a whole lot of love for hardware from the people who appear to be steering UA.
That a company with their connections and resources can't be successful at building mics without someone like David Bock is laughable. I have only respect for the man, but lots of people know how to manufacture a circuit and build a mic. He already had a team of builders working for him and they all work for UA now. I'm sure the people who stayed on are very familiar with David's preferences. They own the designs, the brand, and employ much of the team that was making the products. All they need to do is move forward with it. I thought the pedal market was a bit of a left turn for them myself, but they already have the knowledge of how to create great effects, and they hired one of the most respected guys in the industry to lead a team of engineers creating products that have been mostly applauded. And it's as big, or bigger, of a market as what they have been selling LA-2As and 1176s. (Which they still sell.) So it's most certainly progress. People aren't shopping for consoles. They are shopping for creative tools. |
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Post by Quint on Feb 17, 2023 14:47:28 GMT -6
So, you predict UA is going to close shop altogether? Or what other profit centers do they have? Afaik it's only DSP and hardware, right? Did you miss the topic of the thread? UA has gone native. Not all the way - yet - but once it starts I see no reason for them to continue with DSP development, which will be redundant. Why compete with themselves? They have unequivocally stated that they are staying with DSP. The obvious reason to use DSP is for low latency during tracking. It's not redundant. |
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Post by drumrec on Feb 17, 2023 15:36:48 GMT -6
Did you miss the topic of the thread? UA has gone native. Not all the way - yet - but once it starts I see no reason for them to continue with DSP development, which will be redundant. Why compete with themselves? They have unequivocally stated that they are staying with DSP. The obvious reason to use DSP is for low latency during tracking. It's not redundant. Exactly, It is one of the big selling points with low latency and it cannot be done without dsp integration on the Apollo interface. So I don't think they'll let go of dsp. Instead, find the best of both worlds with native/dsp. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 17, 2023 16:04:06 GMT -6
I'd love for UA to do a standalone DSP box with no conversion or analog I/o, similar to an HDX card, but with thunderbolt, and then we could use whatever converters we wanted via AES, adat, or whatever. Isn't that exactly the idea behind the Satellite line? Satellite/card UA dsp is only for mixing not tracking. On board apollo dsp is for tracking ( low latency) and mixing |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2023 18:32:38 GMT -6
If the plugins can now be bought without the hardware, can they now personally be sold without the hardware ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 17, 2023 19:46:28 GMT -6
Apparently, the new plugs cannot be sold?
If you own uad2, the uadx version goes when you sell.
Drew is being coy at ua forum, but he said as much on the gs thread quint talked about.
I asked him point blank on ua forum, he said read the faq.
My impression from the gs thread is the faq is not clear and I’m not certain where it is ?
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