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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 19, 2023 20:36:49 GMT -6
My guess? UAD will use some new form of dsp to give more power. An underpowered dsp box has been a flaw for a long time now. Adding satellites was simply a workaround that hid the fact that a full powered UAD system costs considerably more than one Apollo. If you wanted to use UAD plugs at will, you'd need 4-10X the dsp power that comes with an Apollo.
They'll claim their new "state of the art converters" are world class, and they will probably still lag behind Apogee and the others, despite specs that say otherwise. They'll probably offer a less expensive Apollo that has more power than the current ones.
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Post by drumsound on Feb 19, 2023 21:46:16 GMT -6
Apparently, the new plugs cannot be sold? If you own uad2, the uadx version goes when you sell. Drew is being coy at ua forum, but he said as much on the gs thread quint talked about. I asked him point blank on ua forum, he said read the faq. My impression from the gs thread is the faq is not clear and I’m not certain where it is ? I really wish they would all selling, or even just trading or trading IN of individual plugins. I have things I'll never or rarely use because I traded an entire account. Also, does anyone know if Legacy versions can be 'upgraded' to current for less than selling price?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 19, 2023 22:36:50 GMT -6
Yes, not being able to sell what you want, only all is a really objectionable ua disservice.
UA had 50% off sales in the past if you purchased the mkii while owning the original: you also got a new license for the original version which was renamed legacy .
But, they quietly dropped that about 2-3 years ago.
The recent bundle prices and double up bundles actually gave you prices much lower than 50% off: just keep your eyes peeled !
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Post by drumsound on Feb 20, 2023 0:15:30 GMT -6
Yes, not being able to sell what you want, only all is a really objectionable ua disservice. UA had 50% off sales in the past if you purchased the mkii while owning the original: you also got a new license for the original version which was renamed legacy . But, they quietly dropped that about 2-3 years ago. The recent bundle prices and double up bundles actually gave you prices much lower than 50% off: just keep your eyes peeled ! I just have a few legacy things, and they honestly sound really good. I wouldn't mind if UA just set up a plugin exchange system, peer to peer.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 20, 2023 3:54:22 GMT -6
A good idea, but ua seems more interested in mo sales !
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Post by noob on Feb 20, 2023 8:38:06 GMT -6
whatever they got planned, I'm excited for it
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 20, 2023 9:08:01 GMT -6
If you use apollo and luna, if not, well,
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 10:02:45 GMT -6
As someone else said... best thing would be if they released something that made everyone flood the market with "obsolete" used x8's and x16's. Now that I could get behind.
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Post by noob on Feb 20, 2023 10:16:39 GMT -6
As someone else said... best thing would be if they released something that made everyone flood the market with "obsolete" used x8's and x16's. Now that I could get behind. how would that be a win for current DSP users?
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 10:30:10 GMT -6
As someone else said... best thing would be if they released something that made everyone flood the market with "obsolete" used x8's and x16's. Now that I could get behind. how would that be a win for current DSP users? I am a current DSP user so I think it would be a win because I could buy those very solid devices for prices that make more sense for how I use them. I just can't justify $4k for 16 channels of conversion from the x16 when I can get twice the I/O for half the money from MOTU. But I actually really like using UAD's DSP. So it would be a win if you could buy great hardware with DSP support at a discount price because it's no longer "current".
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Post by noob on Feb 20, 2023 10:38:54 GMT -6
how would that be a win for current DSP users? I am a current DSP user so I think it would be a win because I could buy those very solid devices for prices that make more sense for how I use them. I just can't justify $4k for 16 channels of conversion from the x16 when I can get twice the I/O for half the money from MOTU. But I actually really like using UAD's DSP. So it would be a win if you could buy great hardware with DSP support at a discount price because it's no longer "current". Are MOTU really anywhere near the quality of apollo's? I have an x8p and I expanded it to 16 inputs with a focusrite octopre. Never had any DSP issues at all. Since day one, my apollo has upped my mixing/recording game immensely and never given me any issues. It has been well worth the money for me, so to just release new devices that make their current DSP devices obsolete definitely does not seem like a win for DSP users at all.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 20, 2023 10:41:34 GMT -6
I am a current DSP user so I think it would be a win because I could buy those very solid devices for prices that make more sense for how I use them. I just can't justify $4k for 16 channels of conversion from the x16 when I can get twice the I/O for half the money from MOTU. But I actually really like using UAD's DSP. So it would be a win if you could buy great hardware with DSP support at a discount price because it's no longer "current". Are MOTU really anywhere near the quality of apollo's? Yes. I’ve compared them side by side.
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Post by noob on Feb 20, 2023 10:44:18 GMT -6
Are MOTU really anywhere near the quality of apollo's? Yes. I’ve compared them side by side. What do you mean you compared them side by side? In terms of... what variables?
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Post by noob on Feb 20, 2023 10:48:40 GMT -6
I've personally never heard an A/D converter sub $6k that compared to the conversion I hear on my x8p. That's just my subjective experience though, I obviously haven't heard every interface out there.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 11:05:19 GMT -6
I've personally never heard an A/D converter sub $6k that compared to the conversion I hear on my x8p. That's just my subjective experience though, I obviously haven't heard every interface out there. Caveat first... I'm not one of those that goes crazy for the "sound" of converters. Though I do have pretty sensitive ears. So I'll say this and then duck for cover. When I switched to the MOTU with the ESS Sabre32 I thought it was a noticeable improvement with no other changes other than conversion. That could have been a lot of things I suppose... better headphone amps maybe? I don't know. All I know is it was better to my ears. I also know that when I was on the Apollo ecosystem I always went through my Cranborne 500ADAT converters if I could because it always just sounded clearer and wider. That was straight A/B between Cranborne and Apollo. With the MOTU converters I don't bother. I just use whichever conversion is easiest in the signal path. Maybe they sound different (Cranborne vs MOTU) but I've never bothered to check. Whereas with the Apollo it was obvious enough that I felt the need to get down to the root of the difference. All that said, I don't really worry too much about converters. I'd happily go back to the Apollo's. It's the MOTU 24AO that I really love. 24 outs for $850 used/mint. Rock solid.
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Post by Quint on Feb 20, 2023 11:14:53 GMT -6
I've personally never heard an A/D converter sub $6k that compared to the conversion I hear on my x8p. That's just my subjective experience though, I obviously haven't heard every interface out there. Caveat first... I'm not one of those that goes crazy for the "sound" of converters. Though I do have pretty sensitive ears. So I'll say this and then duck for cover. When I switched to the MOTU with the ESS Sabre32 I thought it was a noticeable improvement with no other changes other than conversion. That could have been a lot of things I suppose... better headphone amps maybe? I don't know. All I know is it was better to my ears. I also know that when I was on the Apollo ecosystem I always went through my Cranborne 500ADAT converters if I could because it always just sounded clearer and wider. That was straight A/B between Cranborne and Apollo. With the MOTU converters I don't bother. I just use whichever conversion is easiest in the signal path. Maybe they sound different (Cranborne vs MOTU) but I've never bothered to check. Whereas with the Apollo it was obvious enough that I felt the need to get down to the root of the difference. All that said, I don't really worry too much about converters. I'd happily go back to the Apollo's. It's the MOTU 24AO that I really love. 24 outs for $850 used/mint. Rock solid. Just curious, which Apollo did you have in the past?
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Post by Quint on Feb 20, 2023 11:16:57 GMT -6
As someone else said... best thing would be if they released something that made everyone flood the market with "obsolete" used x8's and x16's. Now that I could get behind. Yeah, I could stand to have another x16 or two, that way I could go all in on the hybrid thing.
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Post by noob on Feb 20, 2023 11:37:25 GMT -6
I've personally never heard an A/D converter sub $6k that compared to the conversion I hear on my x8p. That's just my subjective experience though, I obviously haven't heard every interface out there. Caveat first... I'm not one of those that goes crazy for the "sound" of converters. Though I do have pretty sensitive ears. So I'll say this and then duck for cover. When I switched to the MOTU with the ESS Sabre32 I thought it was a noticeable improvement with no other changes other than conversion. That could have been a lot of things I suppose... better headphone amps maybe? I don't know. All I know is it was better to my ears. I also know that when I was on the Apollo ecosystem I always went through my Cranborne 500ADAT converters if I could because it always just sounded clearer and wider. That was straight A/B between Cranborne and Apollo. With the MOTU converters I don't bother. I just use whichever conversion is easiest in the signal path. Maybe they sound different (Cranborne vs MOTU) but I've never bothered to check. Whereas with the Apollo it was obvious enough that I felt the need to get down to the root of the difference. All that said, I don't really worry too much about converters. I'd happily go back to the Apollo's. It's the MOTU 24AO that I really love. 24 outs for $850 used/mint. Rock solid. Very interesting. Yes, 24 for that price is a great deal. I'd like to see an extensive breakdown of the differences, it does sound like you've found a situation that works for yourself. In my personal experience, great A/D conversion is absolutely paramount. I am a huge fan of the UAD environment, it makes my digital workflow so much better. So I am very satisfied with it. The A/D conversion, unison pre's, and recording with DSP/plugs is really what makes it way worth it for me. I have yet to find an interface that matched what I can do with my apollo. Efficiency, and making sure what goes in is exactly what comes out, and nothing is lost, is pretty much top priority.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 11:45:44 GMT -6
Caveat first... I'm not one of those that goes crazy for the "sound" of converters. Though I do have pretty sensitive ears. So I'll say this and then duck for cover. When I switched to the MOTU with the ESS Sabre32 I thought it was a noticeable improvement with no other changes other than conversion. That could have been a lot of things I suppose... better headphone amps maybe? I don't know. All I know is it was better to my ears. I also know that when I was on the Apollo ecosystem I always went through my Cranborne 500ADAT converters if I could because it always just sounded clearer and wider. That was straight A/B between Cranborne and Apollo. With the MOTU converters I don't bother. I just use whichever conversion is easiest in the signal path. Maybe they sound different (Cranborne vs MOTU) but I've never bothered to check. Whereas with the Apollo it was obvious enough that I felt the need to get down to the root of the difference. All that said, I don't really worry too much about converters. I'd happily go back to the Apollo's. It's the MOTU 24AO that I really love. 24 outs for $850 used/mint. Rock solid. Very interesting. Yes, 24 for that price is a great deal. I'd like to see an extensive breakdown of the differences, it does sound like you've found a situation that works for yourself. In my personal experience, great A/D conversion is absolutely paramount. I am a huge fan of the UAD environment, it makes my digital workflow so much better. So I am very satisfied with it. The A/D conversion, unison pre's, and recording with DSP/plugs is really what makes it way worth it for me. I have yet to find an interface that matched what I can do with my apollo. Efficiency, and making sure what goes in is exactly what comes out, and nothing is lost, is pretty much top priority. I do miss recording with UA's great plugins. I'm a "commit on the way in" type person and even though I have a good selection of hardware, it would be nice to be able to reach for some more specialized processing. Don't get me wrong. I like the Apollo ecosystem too! That's why I'm hoping I can afford to get back into it! I bailed because I wasn't using anything but conversion (and DSP) and it began to feel like I was paying for only half of what I was using. So I was gonna move to x16 but then I realized I could put that money towards the RND Orbit instead and just do basic conversion with MOTU. Plus I hate Console, that thing sucks. But again... I'd gladly come back!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 11:46:55 GMT -6
Plus I did keep my Satellite and I still have my x4 that I just can't seem to get motivated to sell properly. Maybe because I secretly want to be back in Apollo-land someday.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 20, 2023 13:03:56 GMT -6
Yes. I’ve compared them side by side. What do you mean you compared them side by side? In terms of... what variables? All I could really do was a loopback. I had a handful of songs. I had the Apollo X6, Motu 16a/828ES, Lynx Aurora (n) and a Cransesong HEDD Quantum. I kept the Aurora (n).
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 20, 2023 17:21:05 GMT -6
As someone else said... best thing would be if they released something that made everyone flood the market with "obsolete" used x8's and x16's. Now that I could get behind. They won’t be obsolete as ua isn’t going to drop uad2 and current dsp as unison requires onboard apollo dsp. Perhaps, they will use a new chip, but recoding everything woukd be a huge task.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 20, 2023 17:22:10 GMT -6
What do you mean you compared them side by side? In terms of... what variables? All I could really do was a loopback. I had a handful of songs. I had the Apollo X6, Motu 16a/828ES, Lynx Aurora (n) and a Cransesong HEDD Quantum. I kept the Aurora (n). Me too, aurora N for the sonic win!
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Post by ericn on Feb 20, 2023 17:52:53 GMT -6
As someone else said... best thing would be if they released something that made everyone flood the market with "obsolete" used x8's and x16's. Now that I could get behind. They won’t be obsolete as ua isn’t going to drop uad2 and current dsp as unison requires onboard apollo dsp. Perhaps, they will use a new chip, but recoding everything woukd be a huge task. Unless they do drop it. Here is the thing the supposition is something more powerful, that would be awesome except it probably means a new platform, you think they are going to support Native UAD2, and 3 ? Nope if a new platform comes out UAD2 is going the way of UAD1, except this time the vast majority of users probably have the DSP intergrated in their interface, so suddenly it’s hey you need a new interface, gee think people are pissed now? Right now UA has so many pans over the fire something is going to have to give. It also would not surprise me if UA was the Peloton of pro audio; what I mean here is they were the company with the right product for the shut down, their numbers were great in this new world and they listened to their own press releases and thought they were frickin brilliant. Nobody said no we are riding a bubble it’s going to pop, we need to be ready for it to pop, instead they bought into the idea that they were I. Control not the market, and of course the bubble popped and they came crashing back to the real world. It’s like a friend’s restaurant, they do breakfast and lunch, survived and thrived post shutdown, not because they are brilliant but because they were strong. Most of the other places closed so their crazy growth is as much about attrition as anything, but what happens if they bite off a bunch of expansion and all the landlords decide they need to discount and get somebody in all these empty spaces? There goes this sudden huge market share.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 19:12:17 GMT -6
As someone else said... best thing would be if they released something that made everyone flood the market with "obsolete" used x8's and x16's. Now that I could get behind. They won’t be obsolete as ua isn’t going to drop uad2 and current dsp as unison requires onboard apollo dsp. Perhaps, they will use a new chip, but recoding everything woukd be a huge task. Hence the quotes!
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