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Post by Ward on Nov 7, 2022 11:45:13 GMT -6
Yup. U87 may be the best all rounder ever. One thing to try - a tube mic pre like a Coil or Locomotive, and/or a tube compressor. LA2a or Sta. May get you exactly where you want. But yeah, the 87 is a killer mic. Capable of virtually every/any thing. Best definition of the U87ai I ever heard was: a U87 Artificial Imitation. There are not better all-rounders than the KM84 and U87. except maybe a couple of the Gefell mics.  I wonder why? |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 7, 2022 12:10:35 GMT -6
LOL! If I had one I'd be dying to throw a thick Pre (or quality Plug) on the AI. Here's my U195 on FLAT below... Chris |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 7, 2022 18:06:33 GMT -6
Exactly Dr. Bill. I have the Soyuz 0-19 FET. Same as the 0-17, but no tube. When I use it with a tube amp AND a compressor, it adds that little bit of oomph in the low end, helping it not sound quite as plain. Without the compressor it's not as sweet. I had to sell some gear and hope to get a compressor soon.
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Post by drbill on Nov 7, 2022 18:18:39 GMT -6
Exactly Dr. Bill. I have the Soyuz 0-19 FET. Same as the 0-17, but no tube. When I use it with a tube amp AND a compressor, it adds that little bit of oomph in the low end, helping it not sound quite as plain. Without the compressor it's not as sweet. I had to sell some gear and hope to get a compressor soon. Yup. A microphone does not stand alone. It operates within a chain. (Obviously. Not telling you anything you don't already know and practice Martin). The rest of that chain can bring as much or sometimes more to the table than the mic. ALL links are critical, and should be wisely chosen. I often find it a bit amusing when people spend half their lives looking for the perfect mic for their voice instead of getting down to recording. Don't get me wrong, I understand the hunt, but back in the day, ONE mic often went up (sometimes randomly) and was plugged into the studio's console which BTW had the only preamps in the studio, and the console EQ made the changes for the half dozen vocalists that may have sang into that mic on any particular day. Just the way it was. Now we praise those recordings....go figure.  |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 7, 2022 19:38:16 GMT -6
Uh oh. May_be just maybe, my days with the Vintage Presonus Audiobox here are numbered. Chris |
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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 7, 2022 21:23:50 GMT -6
The feeling at the moment, I would have chosen a vintage u87 over the chandler if they were accessible. I like the balanced sound and know with eq I would only need to add that little I hear lacking ( 6-7k) rather than going for something I’m not 100% sure about. I don’t feel like cutting anything on the u87 only boosting in that one area.
I’ve always thought about adding different amps and comps to alter an already decent sound so def agree with that, this again confirms and increases my confidence, that I’m heading in the right direction. Thanks guys.
Edit: I’m having a strange pull to purchase a new u87ai. Who thinks it’s a bad idea?? 🙂 Does the new u87ai have the same warm mids? What’s the main difference?
Serrano vs u87ai?
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Post by chessparov on Nov 7, 2022 23:09:16 GMT -6
I'd short list the BU87 and UT Twin87 too...
If you're seriously considering the Serrano.
I don't have all the 87 experience like others here, but all 3 IMHO are fine vocal mics.
BU87 most affordable, but the other two are Multi-Pattern.
Chris
P.S. I'm a little surprised the TLM 193 hasn't been mentioned yet.
Little cardioid brother of TLM 170/U89.
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Post by crillemannen on Nov 8, 2022 0:02:52 GMT -6
I can't really recommend anyone spending 4.5k on a vintage U87 but with that said I might have a pair coming up for sale, parallel pair 🙈
There allot of nice mics in the 3-4k range that will Trump the u87 in so many ways. The u87 always delivers but it is "the best boring mic ever made™" haha!
I have plenty of mic demos on my channel ranging from affordable to boutique high-end.
Personal favourites so far:
GA-8000 ; clean and open toppend
Chandler Redd; upfront with some nice lowmid bloom
GA Ela M 251E; vibey and beautiful
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Post by Ward on Nov 8, 2022 7:40:02 GMT -6
There allot of nice mics in the 3-4k range that will *no politics* the u87 in so many ways The *no politics* filter to a common English word, t.rump made me laugh! I guess we'll be bi.den our time until the political climate changes. So . . . about these two U87s, tell me more.  |
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Post by ericn on Nov 8, 2022 7:54:42 GMT -6
There allot of nice mics in the 3-4k range that will *no politics* the u87 in so many ways The *no politics* filter to a common English word, t.rump made me laugh! I guess we'll be bi.den our time until the political climate changes. So . . . about these two U87s, tell me more. Are you Shure? |
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Post by crillemannen on Nov 8, 2022 7:55:51 GMT -6
There allot of nice mics in the 3-4k range that will *no politics* the u87 in so many ways The *no politics* filter to a common English word, t.rump made me laugh! I guess we'll be bi.den our time until the political climate changes. So . . . about these two U87s, tell me more. T*(r)ump then..!? Well I know more soon. But two u87 with swivel mounts, original box. I'll accept offers heh! ✌️ |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 8, 2022 9:11:13 GMT -6
I know one thing.
Those are worth a lot more than...
Sixpences.
Chris
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 8, 2022 10:02:15 GMT -6
Referring to Dr. Bill's post, I was at a studio for a UAD live recording event. They were comparing the Apollo to the studio board with a live band playing. It was a vintage Neve console. While setting up, someone used an SM57 for a vocal test. Between the board's preamps, EQ, compression and outputs, it sounded fantastic, by any measure.
That amazing signal chain made the 57 sound so good that it became a matter of compatibility with the vocalist, and not necessarily needing to use the "best" mic. Would I chose a U87 over an SM57, absolutely. Would I argue if someone preferred the sound of a 57 on vocals, and I had that kind of processing available, nope.
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Post by chessparov on Nov 8, 2022 10:08:08 GMT -6
One of my best friends also sounds great, on 57/58 and... SM48! (Gasp) I hate her! (Not really have had a big crush on her over the years ) Chris |
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Post by ericn on Nov 8, 2022 10:52:22 GMT -6
Referring to Dr. Bill's post, I was at a studio for a UAD live recording event. They were comparing the Apollo to the studio board with a live band playing. It was a vintage Neve console. While setting up, someone used an SM57 for a vocal test. Between the board's preamps, EQ, compression and outputs, it sounded fantastic, by any measure. That amazing signal chain made the 57 sound so good that it became a matter of compatibility with the vocalist, and not necessarily needing to use the "best" mic. Would I chose a U87 over an SM57, absolutely. Would I argue if someone preferred the sound of a 57 on vocals, and I had that kind of processing available, nope. I’ll take this in a direction , often it’s not the Sonics the SM57/58 bring it’s the performance. If you have a vocalist who has grown up using one on stage. It’s like a baby blanket, they know it how to work it sounds right in their cans. If you have time you can get them there but if you don’t and you know they have played live the simple question “ what’s your favorite mic on stage” can get a great performance in no time. |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 8, 2022 12:11:12 GMT -6
Paul Rodger's main Free/Bad Company studio mic?... A 57. |
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Post by Ward on Nov 8, 2022 14:56:53 GMT -6
Paul Rodger's main Free/Bad Company studio mic?... A 57. ^ ^ ^ Today's winner of the thread derailing trophy, and there's been a lot of competition! |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 8, 2022 15:57:25 GMT -6
Guess I'm banished to "The Kid's Table", this Thanksgiving now. Wait! I remember Eric Burdon used a C12 on "Down In Monterrey". Back on track. Chris |
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Post by Ward on Nov 8, 2022 17:01:13 GMT -6
Guess I'm banished to "The Kid's Table", this Thanksgiving now. Wait! I remember Eric Burdon used a C12 on "Down In Monterrey". Back on track. Chris Chris has been redeemed! (By the blood of the Lamb teejay) |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 8, 2022 18:45:50 GMT -6
Timely! Am working on "I Saw The Light"/Hank Sr. and "Man Of Constant Sorrow"... For the next Bluegrass Jam in 2 weeks. Maybe work on REDD River Valley after that. Chris |
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Post by winterland on Nov 8, 2022 19:17:02 GMT -6
Where would I search for a vintage u87, the usual reverb or eBay? I think I’m finally understanding why so many recommend the vintage u87. Yes, but... The challenge is so many don’t know what they have for sale (or they’re hiding something they don’t want to disclose). I’ve been burned (which is part of how I learned) by purchasing at full vintage price (current market value) and found out later it had a capsule that was reskinned and not an original Neumann. At today’s prices, you could end up at $4,500-$5,300 for a vintage U87 and then add to that $1,500+ in service/maintenance fees. I would play it safe and put that into a Chandler Redd (or something non-vintage) first. I have been buying used gear on Ebay and Reverb for a long time and had great experiences. If you research the seller, checkout feedback etc, it can make all the difference. Shoot them a message and ask questions. Most sellers are very helpful and want to help. Especially pro audio people. Ask for more pictures if needed, history of mic etc. Yes do ask if all original. Original capsule etc. We love our pair of 1974 U87s. They are work horses. You can keep them warmer sounding with no or minimal or brighten up if you want that sound. They take eq so well. I will throw another mic into the discussion. The Stam Sa-251. It has the brightness that it sounds like you are looking for. Good luck with your search. |
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Post by Chad on Nov 8, 2022 20:44:42 GMT -6
Yes, but... The challenge is so many don’t know what they have for sale (or they’re hiding something they don’t want to disclose). I’ve been burned (which is part of how I learned) by purchasing at full vintage price (current market value) and found out later it had a capsule that was reskinned and not an original Neumann. At today’s prices, you could end up at $4,500-$5,300 for a vintage U87 and then add to that $1,500+ in service/maintenance fees. I would play it safe and put that into a Chandler Redd (or something non-vintage) first. I have been buying used gear on Ebay and Reverb for a long time and had great experiences. If you research the seller, checkout feedback etc, it can make all the difference. Shoot them a message and ask questions. Most sellers are very helpful and want to help. Especially pro audio people. Ask for more pictures if needed, history of mic etc. Yes do ask if all original. Original capsule etc. We love our pair of 1974 U87s. They are work horses. You can keep them warmer sounding with no or minimal or brighten up if you want that sound. They take eq so well. I will throw another mic into the discussion. The Stam Sa-251. It has the brightness that it sounds like you are looking for. Good luck with your search. That’s true... and... A lot of sellers really don’t know the history of the mic when it’s twice their own age. |
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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 8, 2022 21:15:17 GMT -6
I would like to hear honest opinions of the new 87ai which I’m researching at the moment. If not that great, I’m sticking with the Redd, there’s also the possibility of a u87 clone (as some suggested) and put the extra money in a high end channel (Powerstrip, GTQC or Shelford, Tree Branch etc.). A high end tube comp or RS124 with my ez1073 is also an option. If a great chain can make an sm57 work, hey
Those are my thoughts at the moment.
What do we think of a Serrano on a high end channel strip? Anyone with experience favor the Lauten Atlantis? I’ve been trying to find out if it’s close to the u87.
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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 8, 2022 23:04:05 GMT -6
The Stam SA-87i is close to this 70’s u87. Does Serrano beat this?
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 9, 2022 9:51:47 GMT -6
The Stam SA-87i is close to this 70’s u87. Does Serrano beat this? They’re just going to be slightly different, man. You might prefer one over the other, and somebody else might prefer the other one. I have a Serrano 87 and a Stam 67 (and a Soyuz 019FET), and they’re all great mics. I happily record with all of them. I did a shootout of them a couple years ago here on RGO. (You can find it if you search for it.) Some folks preferred one, some another. But all very capable mics. |
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I wonder why? 
