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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 5, 2022 17:37:47 GMT -6
How would we compare a vintage u87 & the Soyuz 017 Fet? Then again, hearing that the tube is always better on vox, I would be curious after owning the Fet. It’s only $1500 used though. Anyone tried the Lauten Atlantis? thehightenor, can you please describe what you mean by etched? Also, like many here, your observations are spot on as I dig more into my search, thanks. I think at this point, as I said previously, it’s the 017 tube, u87 and Redd. I haven’t heard negatives about the u87 or Soyuz yet but looking at it from an investment point of view, while a bit cheaper, it’s not that easy to purchase a vintage u87, knowing what you’re getting (condition), it’s a risk. The chandler has tonal options and it’s the same price as the 017 tube. I love the fact that I never had sibilance issues with the 87 on this vox, never used a desser on that album so I’m wondering how much the Redd would pick up. The fact that some are saying it can be sometimes has me cautious. Is the 017 tube as bright? Does it have this potential? I think I’m almost there, just have to start somewhere, so many great mics available. Edit: opened another song from our first project and the u87 I think is borderline on being too sibilant, meaning just perfect, can’t imagine a more sibilant mic, that would be crossing over into using a de-esser. I’m not too sure about the Redd now. I’m surprised how good our first project was, been a long time. It’s the Soyuz and u87 now. Take a listen to the raw audio for one of the songs I posted done with the u87: www.dropbox.com/s/6nekxhmjj4yswds/Ill%20Never%20Leave_sample.wav?dl=0 |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 5, 2022 19:01:20 GMT -6
I love the Beesneez BU67's tone.
If you're aiming for a classic 67 style sound
A little mellower on the top, than a Neumann 67.
67's tend to play nice on sibilance.
Chris
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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 5, 2022 19:14:14 GMT -6
I love the Beesneez BU67's tone. If you're aiming for a classic 67 style sound A little mellower on the top, than a Neumann 67. 67's tend to play nice on sibilance. Chris The takes done with the u87 sound good just lacks something, feel like is needs a boost in the 4-5k region and a touch of tube vybe. Will the u67 add the tube vybe yet maintain the u87 qualities? The u87 here is transparent which I like, I like the brightness, just need a bit of saturation probably. Maybe the 017 tube is the mic? What mic sounds like a u87 adding a touch in the upper mid? Will that describe a 251? The Soyuz may be the one, just wish there were more examples online. |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 5, 2022 19:47:11 GMT -6
Honestly, although I totally respect the U87 for general use... I do prefer the U47 (both Tube & FET) and U67 style, on my type of voice. Particularly in the 2nd Tenor register. (I'm also a "full" Baritone too) IMHO the Soyuz FET & Tube, are somewhere between 47 and 67 tonally. Also I think of the 47/67 as setting the standard for how well the 87 is doing. Not the other way around. (Including the 47 FET in this case-due to somewhat sibilant singer) Chris P.S. Not one of the Pro's here. Just a "fussy" singer.  |
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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 5, 2022 21:09:08 GMT -6
Honestly, although I totally respect the U87 for general use... I do prefer the U47 (both Tube & FET) and U67 style, on my type of voice. Particularly in the 2nd Tenor register. (I'm also a "full" Baritone too) IMHO the Soyuz FET & Tube, are somewhere between 47 and 67 tonally. Also I think of the 47/67 as setting the standard for how well the 87 is doing. Not the other way around. Chris P.S. Not one of the Pro's here. Just a "fussy" singer. The Soyuz sounds great, just wish there were more examples online. After listening a lot of audio examples and comparisons of the u87 and Redd I think the Redd is what I’m looking for. The upper mids the u87 is lacking is def found on the Redd, just hoping it wouldn’t be too sibilant. I think this is where I would start. The saturation in the mids is sweeet. I can get a u87 later cuz it’s def a flavor I love as well. The Soyuz tube is also a mic I’ll like to own. I want all of them lol |
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 5, 2022 22:38:26 GMT -6
Honestly, although I totally respect the U87 for general use... I do prefer the U47 (both Tube & FET) and U67 style, on my type of voice. Particularly in the 2nd Tenor register. (I'm also a "full" Baritone too) IMHO the Soyuz FET & Tube, are somewhere between 47 and 67 tonally. Also I think of the 47/67 as setting the standard for how well the 87 is doing. Not the other way around. Chris P.S. Not one of the Pro's here. Just a "fussy" singer. The Soyuz sounds great, just wish there were more examples online. After listening a lot of audio examples and comparisons of the u87 and Redd I think the Redd is what I’m looking for. The upper mids the u87 is lacking is def found on the Redd, just hoping it wouldn’t be too sibilant. I think this is where I would start. The saturation in the mids is sweeet. I can get a u87 later cuz it’s def a flavor I love as well. The Soyuz tube is also a mic I’ll like to own. I want all of them lol There are quite a few examples of the Soyuz online - heck, there are quite a few here on *this* site from myself, Johnkenn, probably Martin, maybe others. teejay has been bouncing between the REDD and a Soyuz 017Tube over the past few weeks at his place. I’m sure he’d have some intelligent things to say if you ask him. |
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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 5, 2022 23:50:49 GMT -6
The Soyuz sounds great, just wish there were more examples online. After listening a lot of audio examples and comparisons of the u87 and Redd I think the Redd is what I’m looking for. The upper mids the u87 is lacking is def found on the Redd, just hoping it wouldn’t be too sibilant. I think this is where I would start. The saturation in the mids is sweeet. I can get a u87 later cuz it’s def a flavor I love as well. The Soyuz tube is also a mic I’ll like to own. I want all of them lol There are quite a few examples of the Soyuz online - heck, there are quite a few here on *this* site from myself, Johnkenn, probably Martin, maybe others. teejay has been bouncing between the REDD and a Soyuz 017Tube over the past few weeks at his place. I’m sure he’d have some intelligent things to say if you ask him. The only good example I’ve found is the one male vox on the Soyuz channel, other than that it’s a lot of voiceovers and instrumentation. A guide to more examples would be greatly appreciated. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 6, 2022 10:08:19 GMT -6
There are quite a few examples of the Soyuz online - heck, there are quite a few here on *this* site from myself, Johnkenn, probably Martin, maybe others. teejay has been bouncing between the REDD and a Soyuz 017Tube over the past few weeks at his place. I’m sure he’d have some intelligent things to say if you ask him. The only good example I’ve found is the one male vox on the Soyuz channel, other than that it’s a lot of voiceovers and instrumentation. A guide to more examples would be greatly appreciated. Do a search here on RGO, my friend. |
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Post by teejay on Nov 6, 2022 10:58:01 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Nov 6, 2022 14:47:49 GMT -6
Gotta love Soyuz. SNIP Soyuz 017 FET: Soyuz 017 Tube: Funny how the FET has that Neumann Vibe to it, but to my ears the Tube version, not so much. |
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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 6, 2022 16:17:25 GMT -6
Teejay has been extremely helpful, even sent me clips of the Soyuz and Redd, can’t thank him enough.
I’ll agree that the 017 tube sounds like a 47/67, which I don’t like simply because of the artists I work with, I need the high mid presence. The Redd is the sound I’m being drawn to at the moment. I also love the u87, warm in the middle, dry and natural sounding, I know with a great eq I’ll be able to boost the upper mids like the engineer did for our song “I’ll never leave”.
The u87 is safer as I know what to expect having used one on his voice before. It is also cheaper but the Redd has a vybe to it, it’s more versatile and has its own amp if the 1073 doesn’t fit and visa versa. The mids on the Redd has a saturation I like. It sounds very detailed so it may worth the extra $$$, wish I could have both of these to be honest, eventually I will 🙂. Where do I begin? we’ll see.
Thank you guys, you all have been so helpful. RGO, best forum 🔥
Edit: Wow vintage u87’s are no cheaper than a Redd, think I was seeing the used u87 ai. The vintage ones are 5000<
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 6, 2022 17:07:29 GMT -6
I used a 1981 U87 every day for 11 years when I had my small production company in the late 80's/early 90's. It was perfect on everything every time. I wish I still had it.
Yes, I'd take a vintage U67 over it if you gave me a choice, but I never felt I was missing anything with the 87. I do feel I miss something with some other FET's though.
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Post by christopher on Nov 6, 2022 17:44:51 GMT -6
A couple things to try if you haven’t yet:
- transistor preamp boosted to overdrive then backed off just a hair enough to seem clean. That can open up the top end sometimes to feel almost tubelike, then a EQ to adjust tone more
- omni will get rid of proximity and possibly feel more open. I assume the phone mic is omni, but I haven’t checked. You can then use EQ to bring up a ton of lows if you want. Or not.
- tube preamp instead of transistor
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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 6, 2022 18:58:38 GMT -6
A couple things to try if you haven’t yet: - transistor preamp boosted to overdrive then backed off just a hair enough to seem clean. That can open up the top end sometimes to feel almost tubelike, then a EQ to adjust tone more - omni will get rid of proximity and possibly feel more open. I assume the phone mic is omni, but I haven’t checked. You can then use EQ to bring up a ton of lows if you want. Or not. - tube preamp instead of transistor This is really helpful, confirms the need of a fader for my ez1073’s. Heard about pushing amps for saturation but didn’t know it also opens it up. A phone’s mic being Omni, or whatever style, is something I’ve also considered. Thanks Christopher. |
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Post by Chad on Nov 6, 2022 21:37:15 GMT -6
Teejay has been extremely helpful, even sent me clips of the Soyuz and Redd, can’t thank him enough. I’ll agree that the 017 tube sounds like a 47/67, which I don’t like simply because of the artists I work with, I need the high mid presence. The Redd is the sound I’m being drawn to at the moment. I also love the u87, warm in the middle, dry and natural sounding, I know with a great eq I’ll be able to boost the upper mids like the engineer did for our song “I’ll never leave”. The u87 is safer as I know what to expect having used one on his voice before. It is also cheaper but the Redd has a vybe to it, it’s more versatile and has its own amp if the 1073 doesn’t fit and visa versa. The mids on the Redd has a saturation I like. It sounds very detailed so it may worth the extra $$$, wish I could have both of these to be honest, eventually I will 🙂. Where do I begin? we’ll see. Thank you guys, you all have been so helpful. RGO, best forum 🔥 Edit: Wow vintage u87’s are no cheaper than a Redd, think I was seeing the used u87 ai. The vintage ones are 5000< I have quite a bit of experience with Vintage and Modern U87’s. There is a reason those vintage U87’s from 1967 to 1985 are so expensive. They really do something I’ve not heard any of the “‘87 copycat/clone” mic creators say they will do for me. Seriously. There is nothing like a vintage ‘87 which is working 100%, top to bottom (capsule to output x-former). |
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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 6, 2022 22:13:56 GMT -6
Teejay has been extremely helpful, even sent me clips of the Soyuz and Redd, can’t thank him enough. I’ll agree that the 017 tube sounds like a 47/67, which I don’t like simply because of the artists I work with, I need the high mid presence. The Redd is the sound I’m being drawn to at the moment. I also love the u87, warm in the middle, dry and natural sounding, I know with a great eq I’ll be able to boost the upper mids like the engineer did for our song “I’ll never leave”. The u87 is safer as I know what to expect having used one on his voice before. It is also cheaper but the Redd has a vybe to it, it’s more versatile and has its own amp if the 1073 doesn’t fit and visa versa. The mids on the Redd has a saturation I like. It sounds very detailed so it may worth the extra $$$, wish I could have both of these to be honest, eventually I will 🙂. Where do I begin? we’ll see. Thank you guys, you all have been so helpful. RGO, best forum 🔥 Edit: Wow vintage u87’s are no cheaper than a Redd, think I was seeing the used u87 ai. The vintage ones are 5000< I have quite a bit of experience with Vintage and Modern U87’s. There is a reason those vintage U87’s from 1967 to 1985 are so expensive. They really do something I’ve not heard any of the “‘87 copycat/clone” mic creators say they will do for me. Seriously. There is nothing like a vintage ‘87 which is working 100%, top to bottom (capsule to output x-former). Where would I search for a vintage u87, the usual reverb or eBay? I think I’m finally understanding why so many recommend the vintage u87. |
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Post by wiz on Nov 7, 2022 3:59:32 GMT -6
My 1978 u87 is right in spec and is wonderful
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 7, 2022 4:24:34 GMT -6
I owned a BLUE Bottle mic system for a few years before I sold it and bought a Wunder CM7, Blue KIWI and an AEA R92 as a replacement.
Though it wasn’t for me, I must say for a modern upfront commercial sound the B6 and B0 caps where pretty fantastic.
It had a huge etched sound, very up front.
Definitely worth consideration.
Stings vocals on the “Sacred Love” album was recorded on the Blue Bottle.
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Post by Chad on Nov 7, 2022 4:35:53 GMT -6
I have quite a bit of experience with Vintage and Modern U87’s. There is a reason those vintage U87’s from 1967 to 1985 are so expensive. They really do something I’ve not heard any of the “‘87 copycat/clone” mic creators say they will do for me. Seriously. There is nothing like a vintage ‘87 which is working 100%, top to bottom (capsule to output x-former). Where would I search for a vintage u87, the usual reverb or eBay? I think I’m finally understanding why so many recommend the vintage u87. Yes, but... The challenge is so many don’t know what they have for sale (or they’re hiding something they don’t want to disclose). I’ve been burned (which is part of how I learned) by purchasing at full vintage price (current market value) and found out later it had a capsule that was reskinned and not an original Neumann. At today’s prices, you could end up at $4,500-$5,300 for a vintage U87 and then add to that $1,500+ in service/maintenance fees. I would play it safe and put that into a Chandler Redd (or something non-vintage) first. |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 7, 2022 9:15:41 GMT -6
Here are two brief vocals, on the two best overall condensers, I spent significant time with.
Because I own the Soundelux U195 (now UA 187) and have had the Beesneez BU67 on extended loan.
U195 is on external FAT setting, to emulate a "real" Vintage Tube Mic.
It can also be set to FLAT, for a more Modern tone.
The BU67 also has an internal switch, to emulate a 269.
Chris
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Post by musicminister187 on Nov 7, 2022 10:56:23 GMT -6
Here are two brief vocals, on the two best overall condensers, I spent significant time with. Because I own the Soundelux U195 (now UA 187) and have had the Beesneez BU67 on extended loan. U195 is on external FAT setting, to emulate a "real" Vintage Tube Mic. It can also be set to FLAT, for a more Modern tone. The BU67 also has an internal switch, to emulate a 269. Chris Thanks for sharing Chris, I prefer the BU67, that setting on the 195 will work great for some songs though, very vintage, thick and warm. I think they both bring our the qualities in your voice. |
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Post by bradd on Nov 7, 2022 11:00:31 GMT -6
With the recent Neumann reissues, I wonder if we will ever see a reissue of the 87i.
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Post by bossanova on Nov 7, 2022 11:21:06 GMT -6
I have quite a bit of experience with Vintage and Modern U87’s. There is a reason those vintage U87’s from 1967 to 1985 are so expensive. They really do something I’ve not heard any of the “‘87 copycat/clone” mic creators say they will do for me. Seriously. There is nothing like a vintage ‘87 which is working 100%, top to bottom (capsule to output x-former). Where would I search for a vintage u87, the usual reverb or eBay? I think I’m finally understanding why so many recommend the vintage u87. If you want to have both options (U87i + Redd/Soyuz) and save some money and peace of mind, Carlos Serrano's "Vintage 87" clone is highly regarded around here by multiple owners of original U87i's. It runs at $659 right now. |
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Post by Ward on Nov 7, 2022 11:38:27 GMT -6
With the recent Neumann reissues, I wonder if we will ever see a reissue of the 87i. Extra doubtful. The 87ai is close enough for 99% of buyers. The discernible difference between a 184 and the original 84 has opened a window of opportunity based on the success of the U47FET U67 reissues. The M49 also looks like a home-run. What else has that opportunity? Clearly a revised U47/U48V and a reissue of the KM84 (and I hope the KMS84 as well). I'll add an AMEN to the recommendation for one of cserrano 's U87 recreations. |
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Post by drbill on Nov 7, 2022 11:38:45 GMT -6
I used a 1981 U87 every day for 11 years when I had my small production company in the late 80's/early 90's. It was perfect on everything every time. I wish I still had it. Yes, I'd take a vintage U67 over it if you gave me a choice, but I never felt I was missing anything with the 87. I do feel I miss something with some other FET's though. Yup. U87 may be the best all rounder ever. One thing to try - a tube mic pre like a Coil or Locomotive, and/or a tube compressor. LA2a or Sta. May get you exactly where you want. But yeah, the 87 is a killer mic. Capable of virtually every/any thing. |
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