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Post by spock on Oct 24, 2022 8:23:50 GMT -6
so....two pages, and no one's brought up the 6386 tube? Extraordinary tube! Plenty available and not just from JJ. Tons of NOS choobs out there. Not hard to find! bowie is just one source. Can you just pop an NOS into a 660 if you wanted to, Adam spock ? Wow. Fascinating how polarizing this one particular compressor has become. I don't get it. Unjustified and totally stupid! Another new and very successful tool! Congrats to my friends Wade and Adam! You don't make a single less-than-excellent product! Current production tubes don't react as the originals had. For example, if you had a parts for parts re-make or an original, both with new tubes, the resultant yield probably wouldn't be what the nostalgia infers. Wade felt he could arrive at a similar end result to what everyone who's used an original 660 expects, however, using new tubes and from a different and more efficient approach altogether. From Wade— " I wanted a more efficient way of achieving what a 660 is capable of AND more."... " A large part of the work done on the RS660 was making sure the new manufacture 6386 tubes sound like vintage ones. The new versions of the tube not only have less gain and compression, but also significant tonal differences. An entire year of the design was spent on this alone and was a big reason why making a direct 660 style unit was not an option for me as a designer and more specifically a user." I do believe we are at time in which the industry has to begin to apply alternate approaches to achieve what we once had and still desire, not to mention evolving those tools. Wade is very passionate about the sounds we all grew up with and wants to keep the torch burning for those whom experienced the analog tools we pine for, and for younger generations whom are learning about it for the first time. The analog recording equipment industry — still very much boutique — is beholden to component manufacturers, and many parts are becoming obsolete, thus if you love analog, you have to find new ways to scratch the itch. After 20+ years and over 30 products in (with lots more on tap), Wade knows what he's doing and how to keep that flame alive. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 24, 2022 10:22:14 GMT -6
Might see the new M49V going up and guys buying up back up tubes before Putin. Precisely why I grabbed a few 6s6b tubes before it was too late. $4 a piece? I should have grabbed 100. |
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Post by seawell on Oct 24, 2022 14:10:02 GMT -6
I was pretty skeptical about JJ 6386 until I owned the Magic Death Eye compressor. If the design around them is done properly they can be amazing! I have no doubt Chandler has done it right. They have done more than enough to earn my respect and benefit of the doubt. I hope to get to hear the RS660 sometime soon in person.
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Post by christophert on Oct 24, 2022 14:54:58 GMT -6
I was pretty skeptical about JJ 6386 until I owned the Magic Death Eye compressor. If the design around them is done properly they can be amazing! I have no doubt Chandler has done it right. They have done more than enough to earn my respect and benefit of the doubt. I hope to get to hear the RS660 sometime soon in person. Agree - I was skeptical too. My POM Fairchild has 8 x JJ 6386's in it. Others I know with original Fairchilds are using the JJ's too. Pierre from POM told me it is not an expensive problem, unless it is left on all of the time,
Also - he throws out more than half of his JJ's when testing, as he needs 4 pairs of matched tubes.
He has clients that still have the JJ's after 10 years.
The POM sounds incredible. I turn it off when not using it.
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Post by bowie on Oct 24, 2022 16:32:19 GMT -6
I find that hilarious, given all the NOS I’ve tried over decades, and how wildly different and iffy virtually all were. If you haven’t encountered an actual good one (likely), you might not know what’s missing, and $200-400 iffy tubes have a way of convincing the buyer they are good! The full press release states it’s tailored for the JJ which behaves differently from vintage. It’s one thing if it’s vintage and needs it, but a new design? Pass me those plentiful AC701k’s and VF14’s! well a couple of follow-up points on that. 1. I never assume any of us here are idiots who think by price tags and not actual quality. 2. I asked spock directly about dropping in an NOS as I didn't miss the point about it being made to tolerate the intolerant JJs 3. There are still some 701s around. But are they any good? Haven't tried or tested them. bowie might know. Ten years ago I almost bought a batch of 10 VF14m tubes that were still sealed (Neumann) in Telefunken boxes post testing at Neumann - for $2000 total. I doubt there are any of those left. Someone on GS got those. Weird and unpredictable things happen in our world. I never thought I'd spend a couple of hours playing a single owner near mint condition 1952 Telecaster hand assembled by Leo Fender, but that was part of my life last Wednesday night. These days, I strongly discourage anyone from building or buying modern gear that uses an AC701. Same for the VF14 or 6386. Not only have they become extremely overpriced (relative to other good tubes) but they are going to be even worse in another few years when it comes time for a replacement. You can't get a single nice VF14 for $2000 these days, let alone a batch. There's some magic attributed to these tubes, because pro-audio guys love to fetishize gear. I personally think they are only relevant in vintage gear, when you have all the other original parts and want to keep "that" sound. I hate seeing AC701s used in modern mics because they really aren't making them sound like a vintage mic (when you have a modern capsule etc) and there's so many vintage mic owners who can't get AC701s for their mics. Some are even having to mod vintage mics to take other tubes because the AC701 is too expensive to justify replacing. Take something like the 6386. It's doubled in price since the pandemic alone. And, there are other inexpensive NOS tubes that will do a similar job for about 5% of the cost. Instead of customers being stuck using an expensive JJ 6386 (which is not known for it's reliability), builders could be using NOS GE 6BA6s which cost much less, are actually easier to acquire, and sound better. One of the problems is that there's pressure to use the "legendary" tubes. People do enough research online that they think they know which tubes are good. So, some builders make compromises so that they can better market their products despite there being equally good NOS options that cost little and will be replaceable in the future. How that relates to this thread, I have no idea. Sorry. I just wanted to respond to the tag. This could be an irrelevant babble. |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 24, 2022 16:39:18 GMT -6
I’ve been buying tubes from Christian for over a decade: never a word of bad advice and never a bad purchase/tube.
I’m with Christian !
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Post by ab101 on Oct 24, 2022 18:35:23 GMT -6
The Highland BG compressors do not use a 6386, have easily available tubes, and have mojo for days. I am sticking with Christian's advice. Manley also has a great sound without the 6386, and I believe they even have a 6386 option, but it is not required.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 24, 2022 18:40:46 GMT -6
The Highland BG compressors do not use a 6386, have easily available tubes, and have mojo for days. I am sticking with Christian's advice. Manley also has a great sound without the 6386, and I believe they even have a 6386 option, but it is not required. Sta can use a pair of 6BJ6’s or a 6386…not sure I could tell the difference |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2022 19:13:54 GMT -6
The Highland BG compressors do not use a 6386, have easily available tubes, and have mojo for days. I am sticking with Christian's advice. Manley also has a great sound without the 6386, and I believe they even have a 6386 option, but it is not required. Sta can use a pair of 6BJ6’s or a 6386…not sure I could tell the difference But your wallet can! |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 24, 2022 19:47:14 GMT -6
These days, I strongly discourage anyone from building or buying modern gear that uses an AC701. Same for the VF14 or 6386. Not only have they become extremely overpriced (relative to other good tubes) but they are going to be even worse in another few years when it comes time for a replacement. You can't get a single nice VF14 for $2000 these days, let along a batch. There's some magic attributed to these tubes, because pro-audio guys love to fetishize gear. I personally think they are only relevant in vintage gear, when you have all the other original parts and want to keep "that" sound. I hate seeing AC701s used in modern mics because they really aren't making them sound like a vintage mic (when you have a modern capsule elc) and there's so many vintage mic owners who can't get AC701s for their mics. Some are even having to mod vintage mics to take other tubes because the AC701 is too expensive to justify replacing. Take something like the 6386. It's doubled in price since the pandemic alone. And, there are other inexpensive NOS tubes that will do a similar job for about 5% of the cost. Instead of customers being stuck using an expensive JJ 6386 (which is not known for it's reliability), builders could be using NOS GE 6BA6s which cost much less, are actually easier to acquire, and sound better. One of the problems is that there's pressure to use the "legendary" tubes. People do enough research online that they think they know what tubes are good. So, some builders make compromises so that they can better market their products despite there being equally good NOS options that cost little and will be replaceable in the future. word ^ |
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ji43
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Post by ji43 on Oct 24, 2022 19:51:38 GMT -6
I have a NOS 6386 from Christian in my STA Level, but that's just icing on the cake; the STA sounds great with or without it. I am reluctant to buy anything that relies on 6386s, though I'd consider the 660s since they only use one 6386 each. The Highland BG2 is an amaZing compressor, but they're also impossible to find at this point (glad I scored one when I did, though wish I got 2).
Hoping that Undertone comes up with a new revision to the Unfairchild with an alternative to the 6386s. I believe the first units used 6BA6s, and I know an owner of one who prefers the OG to the 6386 rev II version.
Also hoping Magic Death Eye eventually does production units of the Stereo MDE with a different tube as well. This may actually be in the cards, though who knows when this will be available...
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Oct 24, 2022 20:00:39 GMT -6
I have a NOS 6386 from Christian in my STA Level, but that's just icing on the cake; the STA sounds great with or without it. I am reluctant to buy anything that relies on 6386s, though I'd consider the 660s since they only use one 6386 each. The Highland BG2 is an amaZing compressor, but they're also impossible to find at this point (glad I scored one when I did, though wish I got 2). Hoping that Undertone comes up with a new revision to the Unfairchild with an alternative to the 6386s. I believe the first units used 6BA6s, and I know an owner of one who prefers the OG to the 6386 rev II version. Also hoping Magic Death Eye eventually does production units of the Stereo MDE with a different tube as well. This may actually be in the cards, though who knows when this will be available... What I don't get is that Chandler, who makes amazing gear, puts out a new compressor and then it's all about tube. Again, pretty sure whatever Wade's doing is the balls and that he's thought this shit through. Doubt I would be able to hear the differences in tube changes to the Unfairchild MKII I have here. When it gets into magic ears mode I just reset and go with the old if it sounds good, it is good. I respect the debate but wrapping it up around a new Chandler unit is a deluxe eye roll. They know what they're doing up there in Iowa. |
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Post by seawell on Oct 24, 2022 20:06:00 GMT -6
I have a NOS 6386 from Christian in my STA Level, but that's just icing on the cake; the STA sounds great with or without it. I am reluctant to buy anything that relies on 6386s, though I'd consider the 660s since they only use one 6386 each. The Highland BG2 is an amaZing compressor, but they're also impossible to find at this point (glad I scored one when I did, though wish I got 2). Hoping that Undertone comes up with a new revision to the Unfairchild with an alternative to the 6386s. I believe the first units used 6BA6s, and I know an owner of one who prefers the OG to the 6386 rev II version. Also hoping Magic Death Eye eventually does production units of the Stereo MDE with a different tube as well. This may actually be in the cards, though who knows when this will be available... What I don't get is that Chandler, who makes amazing gear, puts out a new compressor and then it's all about tube. Again, pretty sure whatever Wade's doing is the balls and that he's thought this shit through. Doubt I would be able to hear the differences in tube changes to the Unfairchild MKII I have here. When it gets into magic ears mode I just reset and go with the old if it sounds good, it is good. I respect the debate but wrapping it up around a new Chandler unit is a deluxe eye roll. They know what they're doing up there in Iowa. Especially since no one has heard it yet. Seems like we’d hold off until then 🤷🏻♂️ |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2022 20:12:30 GMT -6
I have a NOS 6386 from Christian in my STA Level, but that's just icing on the cake; the STA sounds great with or without it. I am reluctant to buy anything that relies on 6386s, though I'd consider the 660s since they only use one 6386 each. The Highland BG2 is an amaZing compressor, but they're also impossible to find at this point (glad I scored one when I did, though wish I got 2). Hoping that Undertone comes up with a new revision to the Unfairchild with an alternative to the 6386s. I believe the first units used 6BA6s, and I know an owner of one who prefers the OG to the 6386 rev II version. Also hoping Magic Death Eye eventually does production units of the Stereo MDE with a different tube as well. This may actually be in the cards, though who knows when this will be available... What I don't get is that Chandler, who makes amazing gear, puts out a new compressor and then it's all about tube. Again, pretty sure whatever Wade's doing is the balls and that he's thought this shit through. Doubt I would be able to hear the differences in tube changes to the Unfairchild MKII I have here. When it gets into magic ears mode I just reset and go with the old if it sounds good, it is good. I respect the debate but wrapping it up around a new Chandler unit is a deluxe eye roll. They know what they're doing up there in Iowa. I think Doug’s point isn’t aimed at just Chandler, and I get what he is trying to say if Neumann of all manufacturers can reissue a non AC701 M49, why can’t others go the same route? Honestly Wade is one of the guys who could easily move the needle on this. |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 24, 2022 20:51:01 GMT -6
I respect the debate but wrapping it up around a new Chandler unit is a deluxe eye roll. They know what they're doing up there in Iowa. It's like opening a restaurant specializing in American Buffalo in 1885? I sold my buffalo distributorship in 1880. I could go on....but I already did. I'll try to shut up! : ) Good luck to all! |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 24, 2022 20:53:16 GMT -6
I think Doug’s point isn’t aimed at just Chandler, and I get what he is trying to say if Neumann of all manufacturers can reissue a non AC701 M49, why can’t others go the same route? Honestly Wade is one of the guys who could easily move the needle on this. Yes. Really no one should be dong anything new with 6386's, AC701K's, VF14's. Unless you're just fucking loaded and like to burn bales of cash for fun, that is a thing. Trying to warn the poor people like me who might not know any better. Forgetting most people keep shit for 3 minutes and flip it, so there's that. You might be out before the crash. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Oct 24, 2022 21:29:59 GMT -6
I think Doug’s point isn’t aimed at just Chandler, and I get what he is trying to say if Neumann of all manufacturers can reissue a non AC701 M49, why can’t others go the same route? Honestly Wade is one of the guys who could easily move the needle on this. Yes. Really no one should be dong anything new with 6386's, AC701K's, VF14's. Unless you're just fucking loaded and like to burn bales of cash for fun, that is a thing. Trying to warn the poor people like me who might not know any better. Forgetting most people keep shit for 3 minutes and flip it, so there's that. You might be out before the crash. Ok, I get the point, but then go rant on the Audio-Scape V-Comp thread as well. They boast about those things unless I'm misunderstanding this whole "debate". And on another angle I'll bet this thing sounds pretty amazing. Just a hunch. |
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Post by seawell on Oct 24, 2022 21:34:50 GMT -6
The overall angle I'm coming from is that I really appreciate having manufacturers participate here and I'd at least like to hear what they've come up with before we shoot it down. I'd understand it if a brand new manufacturer posted here and didn't seem to know much of what they're doing, but geez it's Chandler. I would think Chandler is in the business of making a profit so if they've done their homework and decided a 6386 was the best cost to sound ratio for this compressor then I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt with all the amazing gear they've produced over the years.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 24, 2022 21:45:16 GMT -6
Kind of a good way of getting manufacturers to quit participating. Lol
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Post by EmRR on Oct 24, 2022 22:19:39 GMT -6
They had to know it would cause an uproar in many quarters. Part of the plan.
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Post by seawell on Oct 24, 2022 22:35:22 GMT -6
They had to know it would cause an uproar in many quarters. Part of the plan. I doubt that. Doesn't seem like their style based on their track record at all. |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 24, 2022 22:37:17 GMT -6
They had to know it would cause an uproar in many quarters. Part of the plan. I doubt that. Doesn't seem like their style based on their track record at all. You shouldn’t doubt it. You’d only doubt it if you haven’t followed vintage tube world for years/decades. It’s guaranteed outrage. |
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Post by seawell on Oct 25, 2022 0:07:58 GMT -6
I doubt that. Doesn't seem like their style based on their track record at all. You shouldn’t doubt it. You’d only doubt it if you haven’t followed vintage tube world for years/decades. It’s guaranteed outrage. Oh I have no doubt there’s outrage, I’m saying I doubt that would be part of Chandler’s plan. While you’re rightfully taking credit for your years of following vintage tubes, I think you should give Chandler credit for their years of consistently making top notch gear. It isn’t like this is their first piece of tube gear. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 25, 2022 5:19:01 GMT -6
These days, I strongly discourage anyone from building or buying modern gear that uses an AC701. Same for the VF14 or 6386. Not only have they become extremely overpriced (relative to other good tubes) but they are going to be even worse in another few years when it comes time for a replacement. You can't get a single nice VF14 for $2000 these days, let along a batch. There's some magic attributed to these tubes, because pro-audio guys love to fetishize gear. I personally think they are only relevant in vintage gear, when you have all the other original parts and want to keep "that" sound. I hate seeing AC701s used in modern mics because they really aren't making them sound like a vintage mic (when you have a modern capsule elc) and there's so many vintage mic owners who can't get AC701s for their mics. Some are even having to mod vintage mics to take other tubes because the AC701 is too expensive to justify replacing. Take something like the 6386. It's doubled in price since the pandemic alone. And, there are other inexpensive NOS tubes that will do a similar job for about 5% of the cost. Instead of customers being stuck using an expensive JJ 6386 (which is not known for it's reliability), builders could be using NOS GE 6BA6s which cost much less, are actually easier to acquire, and sound better. One of the problems is that there's pressure to use the "legendary" tubes. People do enough research online that they think they know what tubes are good. So, some builders make compromises so that they can better market their products despite there being equally good NOS options that cost little and will be replaceable in the future. How that relates to this thread, I have no idea. Sorry. I just wanted to respond to the tag. This could be an irrelevant babble. You added to the conversation, as I hoped you would, and I appreciate it! Thanks for sharing your insight. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 25, 2022 6:48:31 GMT -6
Or maybe they want to make money and this is a great product they can do that with.
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