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Post by 2busdriver on Oct 19, 2022 1:14:35 GMT -6
I was just shadow banned, my post was delayed. for an opinion. Sorry bye. 2 times here now. Fare well. Bye
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 19, 2022 2:50:24 GMT -6
That’s unusual, I’d encourage you to have a chat but your call.
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Post by spock on Oct 19, 2022 6:05:25 GMT -6
I had a pair in my cart and then wait, no manual, no actual detail. All hype, deleted, don't care. Oh wait a grammy oh fuck omg I’m sorry the manual isn’t up yet, I’m still working on it; Hurricane Ian right before launch kind of had an impact on things. |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 19, 2022 6:29:39 GMT -6
I had a pair in my cart and then wait, no manual, no actual detail. All hype, deleted, don't care. Oh wait a grammy oh fuck omg I’m sorry the manual isn’t up yet, I’m still working on it; Hurricane Ian right before launch kind of had an impact on things. It's got a manual - it must be a thin one :-) It only has 4 knobs - turn them until it's sounds great - I bet it's hard to make it sound bad! Your post made me search for a manual for my STA Level, and to my surprise Retro actually has one for it! Gosh I hope I haven't been using it wrong for the last 4 years  I wonder how the new RS660 compares to the STA Level or Thermionic Phoenix Compressor? I guess only a demo can tell me that - it does look fantastic! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 19, 2022 6:57:25 GMT -6
I was just shadow banned, my post was delayed. for an opinion. Sorry bye. 2 times here now. Fare well. Bye Uh, no you weren’t, I’m the only one that can do that and I didn’t do it. But I’m about to ban you for being a dumbass and accusing me of it. Edit: Why would I “shadow ban” someone and leave this comment up? One with this opinion having never used or even been in the same room with the equipment you’re talking about? “ I had a pair in my cart and then wait, no manual, no actual detail. All hype, deleted, don't care. Oh wait a grammy oh fuck omg” On second thought, see ya later. |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 19, 2022 7:06:43 GMT -6
Anyone buying any tube gear must accept the vulnerability of running tubes. It’s only prudent to buy spares and or have fun rolling your own and experimenting to see if you prefer the sound of another suitable tube, nos or new. 6386’s are quite far from the average “vulnerability of running tubes”. |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 19, 2022 9:08:15 GMT -6
Fair enuf, can you estimate how many hours they run before they die under normal operating conditions?
I tend to think Chandler stuff is bought by those who can afford the freight.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 19, 2022 10:19:27 GMT -6
Of course I can't. What I can say, is having owned a bunch of 6386 based compressors, and going through lots of original 6386's and a number of new JJ's, what's out there is wildly inconsistent, at several hundred $ a tube. You can make the compressor act entirely differently with every swap, and that's not a 'feature'. Part of that is the metering being meaningless, reading totally different reduction than actual, meters that won't align, tubes that are ok for a day, or a week, or a month, or several years, tubes that suddenly thump on low frequency transients, it's a roll of the dice.
I swore off 6386's more than a decade ago, to me it's not worth the pain, and I'm a tube compressor tech. There are plenty of gain reduction tubes that are cheap and plentiful, using a 6386 today with questionable reliable consistent quality supply isn't quite as extreme as putting an AC701K tube mic on the market, but it's starting down that road. We might be looking at NOS 6386's over a grand in 5 years. Will JJ still be cranking them out? What's the on-shelf supply like?
Stereo: I've rebuilt a number of tube comps to match and experimented extensively with stereo linking....most of this antique tech simply isn't up to it in any way resembling modern expectations. Not unusual to line up levels and gain reduction with tones once you get an idea of range, and then find the time constants are different on each side because of variations in tubes.....after you've matched a big pile of tubes and selected the best! Or levels that center properly in one part of a song, then shift off center in the loud parts. Stepped controls in a stereo pair sounds like matching, my experience says that's possibly actually worse for matching.
Is it the same transformer set as the RS124? Probably. We should know that answer. That'll make the same basic box tone. Could the time constants of the RS124 also be part of the same box? Possibly, high chance towards probably.
It may be f-ing awesome. Awesomer? Than completing the stretch to something more like an actual 660 with the alt tubes? Time will tell. Keep in mind this appears to be (polite language, no, it is) a modified Altec 436 circuit, now bent to 660 time constants, but with the most expensive/scarce possible gain reduction tube. It's a very hard sell to me and a lot of people when put in those terms, there's such a long list of potential tech problems to assuage.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2022 10:37:00 GMT -6
Of course I can't. What I can say, is having owned a bunch of 6386 based compressors, and going through lots of original 6386's and a number of new JJ's, what's out there is wildly inconsistent, at several hundred $ a tube. You can make the compressor act entirely differently with every swap, and that's not a 'feature'. Part of that is the metering being meaningless, reading totally different reduction than actual, meters that won't align, tubes that are ok for a day, or a week, or a month, or several years, it's a roll of the dice.
I swore off 6386's more than a decade ago, to me it's not worth the pain, and I'm a tube compressor tech. There are plenty of gain reduction tubes that are cheap and plentiful, using a 6386 today with questionable reliable consistent quality supply isn't quite as extreme as putting an AC701K tube mic on the market, but it's starting down that road. We might be looking at NOS 6386's over a grand in 5 years. Will JJ still be cranking them out? What's the on-shelf supply like? Stereo: I've rebuilt a number of tube comps to match and experimented extensively with stereo linking....most of this antique tech simply isn't up to it in any way resembling modern expectations. Not unusual to line up levels and gain reduction with tones once you get an idea of range, and then find the time constants are different on each side because of variations in tubes.....after you've matched a big pile of tubes and selected the best! Or levels that center properly in one part of a song, then shift off center in the loud parts. Stepped controls in a stereo pair sounds like matching, my experience says that's possibly actually worse for matching. Is it the same transformer set as the RS124? Probably. We should know that answer. That'll make the same basic box tone. Could the time constants of the RS124 also be part of the same box? Possibly, high chance towards probably. It may be f-ing awesome. Awesomer? Than completing the stretch to something more like an actual 660 with the alt tubes? Time will tell. Keep in mind this appears to be (polite language, no, it is) a modified Altec 436 circuit, now bent to 660 time constants, but with the most expensive/scarce possible gain reduction tube. It's a very hard sell to me and a lot of people when put in those terms, there's such a long list of potential tech problems to assuage. The only thing I’m going to counter with is I know a couple of Hi FI guys who would go off the beaten path start using $5 tubes that would first get blasted for not using old school fashionable tubes, then see the price of tubes double, customers complain about how the cost to retune went up and redesign for a different cheap tube go through it again, after 2 cycles most just said F>ck it I’m going to just use what everyone is using and by the new crap. |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 19, 2022 10:51:23 GMT -6
Yeah that is a thing, but not so much in tube compressor world. There are a lot of viable tube compressor options.
Anyway, much longer detailed press release at GS, says more about concept and execution. Actually, reads more specifically tailored for the way the JJ 6386 behaves, so rolling vintage may be a no-no.
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Post by theglow on Oct 21, 2022 9:20:23 GMT -6
Well, I ordered one the day it was announced (which I was informed a few days later was actually a PRE-order and that it would be late-November before it was shipped, even though there was no indication anywhere that these weren’t ready-to-ship!)
Anyway, with that gripe out of the way, I’m still pretty excited about this comp: I’m a sucker for minimally-tweakable outboard (4 knobs or less!) that I can find the sweet spot for and basically park it there. I like the idea of Fairchild time-constants (would really love to see specs confirming the attack-release times, and an explanation of the 7th time constant… WHY is there no manual published yet??). I also LOVE the brown faceplate. Oh, and I’m a Beatles nut so anything even suggesting that vibe is gonna have power over me!
My thought is that this could be my primary tracking comp/limiter for mono overhead and vocals (paired with my Branch II preamp).
I guess we’ll find out when I finally receive mine in, like, December or whatever…
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Post by spock on Oct 21, 2022 9:59:12 GMT -6
Well, I ordered one the day it was announced (which I was informed a few days later was actually a PRE-order and that it would be late-November before it was shipped, even though there was no indication anywhere that these weren’t ready-to-ship!) Anyway, with that gripe out of the way, I’m still pretty excited about this comp: I’m a sucker for minimally-tweakable outboard (4 knobs or less!) that I can find the sweet spot for and basically park it there. I like the idea of Fairchild time-constants (would really love to see specs confirming the attack-release times, and an explanation of the 7th time constant… WHY is there no manual published yet??). I also LOVE the brown faceplate. Oh, and I’m a Beatles nut so anything even suggesting that vibe is gonna have power over me! My thought is that this could be my primary tracking comp/limiter for mono overhead and vocals (paired with my Branch II preamp). I guess we’ll find out when I finally receive mine in, like, December or whatever… I'm completing the manual; delayed due to Hurricane Ian intervening. RS660's began shipping yesterday, however, I'm not sure where the first are headed. |
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Post by theglow on Oct 21, 2022 10:23:07 GMT -6
Well, I ordered one the day it was announced (which I was informed a few days later was actually a PRE-order and that it would be late-November before it was shipped, even though there was no indication anywhere that these weren’t ready-to-ship!) Anyway, with that gripe out of the way, I’m still pretty excited about this comp: I’m a sucker for minimally-tweakable outboard (4 knobs or less!) that I can find the sweet spot for and basically park it there. I like the idea of Fairchild time-constants (would really love to see specs confirming the attack-release times, and an explanation of the 7th time constant… WHY is there no manual published yet??). I also LOVE the brown faceplate. Oh, and I’m a Beatles nut so anything even suggesting that vibe is gonna have power over me! My thought is that this could be my primary tracking comp/limiter for mono overhead and vocals (paired with my Branch II preamp). I guess we’ll find out when I finally receive mine in, like, December or whatever… I'm completing the manual; delayed due to Hurricane Ian intervening. RS660's began shipping yesterday, however, I'm not sure where the first are headed. Thank you for the update! |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Oct 21, 2022 18:50:37 GMT -6
I'm a Chandler fanboy, but stubbing toes over tube selection... I'm pretty sure they worked that out on their end before releasing the damn thing.
Party on!
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 21, 2022 18:59:45 GMT -6
Getting one, would be special !
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 23, 2022 19:04:24 GMT -6
Holy shit the 660 GS thread is a nightmare.
This might be John nip.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Oct 23, 2022 19:20:13 GMT -6
Holy shit the 660 GS thread is a nightmare. This might be John nip. Lol, haven't read it but need some entertainment so why not. Looks like the one I ordered arrives Wednesday. Looking forward to it. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Oct 23, 2022 19:29:54 GMT -6
Holy shit the 660 GS thread is a nightmare. This might be John nip. Wow. Fascinating how polarizing this one particular compressor has become. I don't get it. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 23, 2022 19:35:53 GMT -6
Holy shit the 660 GS thread is a nightmare. This might be John nip. Lol, haven't read it but need some entertainment so why not. Looks like the one I ordered arrives Wednesday. Looking forward to it. Please report. |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 23, 2022 21:27:00 GMT -6
Excellent, colour me green !
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Post by Ward on Oct 24, 2022 7:03:18 GMT -6
so....two pages, and no one's brought up the 6386 tube? Extraordinary tube! Plenty available and not just from JJ. Tons of NOS choobs out there. Not hard to find! bowie is just one source. Can you just pop an NOS into a 660 if you wanted to, Adam spock? Holy shit the 660 GS thread is a nightmare. This might be John nip. Wow. Fascinating how polarizing this one particular compressor has become. I don't get it. Unjustified and totally stupid! Another new and very successful tool! Congrats to my friends Wade and Adam! You don't make a single less-than-excellent product! |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 24, 2022 7:31:28 GMT -6
so....two pages, and no one's brought up the 6386 tube? Extraordinary tube! Plenty available and not just from JJ. Tons of NOS choobs out there. Not hard to find! bowie is just one source. Can you just pop an NOS into a 660 if you wanted to, Adam spock? I find that hilarious, given all the NOS I’ve tried over decades, and how wildly different and iffy virtually all were. If you haven’t encountered an actual good one (likely), you might not know what’s missing, and $200-400 iffy tubes have a way of convincing the buyer they are good! The full press release states it’s tailored for the JJ which behaves differently from vintage. It’s one thing if it’s vintage and needs it, but a new design? Pass me those plentiful AC701k’s and VF14’s! |
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2022 7:42:25 GMT -6
Extraordinary tube! Plenty available and not just from JJ. Tons of NOS choobs out there. Not hard to find! bowie is just one source. Can you just pop an NOS into a 660 if you wanted to, Adam spock? I find that hilarious, given all the NOS I’ve tried over decades, and how wildly different and iffy virtually all were. If you haven’t encountered an actual good one (likely), you might not know what’s missing, and $200-400 iffy tubes have a way of convincing the buyer they are good! The full press release states it’s tailored for the JJ which behaves differently from vintage. It’s one thing if it’s vintage and needs it, but a new design? Pass me those plentiful AC701k’s and VF14’s! Back in the day I think I maybe got to work with maybe 5 or 6 Fairchild’s only 2 ever impressed and I knew the maintenance guys at both places. Had to admit that With the other places I didn’t get why this was the holy grail, both the guys who were keeping impressive sounding units showed me thes huge stashes of tubes and said “ 2 out of 3 will suck, but don’t worry the other guys will buy them from me.” |
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Post by Ward on Oct 24, 2022 7:53:35 GMT -6
Extraordinary tube! Plenty available and not just from JJ. Tons of NOS choobs out there. Not hard to find! bowie is just one source. Can you just pop an NOS into a 660 if you wanted to, Adam spock? I find that hilarious, given all the NOS I’ve tried over decades, and how wildly different and iffy virtually all were. If you haven’t encountered an actual good one (likely), you might not know what’s missing, and $200-400 iffy tubes have a way of convincing the buyer they are good! The full press release states it’s tailored for the JJ which behaves differently from vintage. It’s one thing if it’s vintage and needs it, but a new design? Pass me those plentiful AC701k’s and VF14’s! well a couple of follow-up points on that. 1. I never assume any of us here are idiots who think by price tags and not actual quality. 2. I asked spock directly about dropping in an NOS as I didn't miss the point about it being made to tolerate the intolerant JJs 3. There are still some 701s around. But are they any good? Haven't tried or tested them. bowie might know. Ten years ago I almost bought a batch of 10 VF14m tubes that were still sealed (Neumann) in Telefunken boxes post testing at Neumann - for $2000 total. I doubt there are any of those left. Someone on GS got those. Weird and unpredictable things happen in our world. I never thought I'd spend a couple of hours playing a single owner near mint condition 1952 Telecaster hand assembled by Leo Fender, but that was part of my life last Wednesday night. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2022 8:20:32 GMT -6
I find that hilarious, given all the NOS I’ve tried over decades, and how wildly different and iffy virtually all were. If you haven’t encountered an actual good one (likely), you might not know what’s missing, and $200-400 iffy tubes have a way of convincing the buyer they are good! The full press release states it’s tailored for the JJ which behaves differently from vintage. It’s one thing if it’s vintage and needs it, but a new design? Pass me those plentiful AC701k’s and VF14’s! well a couple of follow-up points on that. 1. I never assume any of us here are idiots who think by price tags and not actual quality. 2. I asked spock directly about dropping in an NOS as I didn't miss the point about it being made to tolerate the intolerant JJs 3. There are still some 701s around. But are they any good? Haven't tried or tested them. bowie might know. Ten years ago I almost bought a batch of 10 VF14m tubes that were still sealed (Neumann) in Telefunken boxes post testing at Neumann - for $2000 total. I doubt there are any of those left. Someone on GS got those. Weird and unpredictable things happen in our world. I never thought I'd spend a couple of hours playing a single owner near mint condition 1952 Telecaster hand assembled by Leo Fender, but that was part of my life last Wednesday night. The Tube market is going to get even stranger here is why, I was talking to a guy I know from NASA (well I forget what contractor) who immigrated from Russia about 20 years ago, only about 15 years ago the Russian military started to move away from tubes, well with the success that the Ukrainians are having all the old equipment with tube based electronics is getting called into service again. Most of this stuff hasn’t been plugged in for 10-15 years and was put away wet. So between this and normal military use guess what? The Russians are going to be buying up all kinds of what became cheap Russian military tubes! Might see the new M49V going up and guys buying up back up tubes before Putin. |
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