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Post by gmichael on May 28, 2023 13:15:11 GMT -6
How many of these different 251's are compatible with a single body type? They all look fairly different to me. Wouldn't the guts of certain brands just not fit into the body's of others? (I may have misappropriated an apostrophe above)
The colour of the FleA is really original. Very classy aesthetic and so very FleA. I just love what they do, and who they have been to me.
I wish there were som authentic body kits like the TFunk. USA etc. that we can customise to our hearts delight. David Fehrer makes my favourite sounding 251 which is like a Bock but smoother. I would like a custom version of his mic with different metalwork. I would 110% be all over something like that. Was kind of looking at my GA251 as a potential customisation platform, initially. I really like the look and the sound and cost appealed to my frugality. I had it in the back of my head to get either a BN or Tim Campbell capsule if over time I didn't like the stock capsule sound.
I'm not concerned with historical accuracy at all, for me it would be more about a sound particularly special capsules can add.
It has the Haufe transformer already, and I would not mind one bit to have my own unique 251. A pair seems the smarter move though huh?
What I don't fully know is whether the 251 design is more a sum of all it's parts or whether the capsule is everything and every parts selection decision is based around the capsule chosen for production.
Also, the easy to love TF51 inspired me to be more open minded about what a 251 style mic can be.
Same goes for the Cremona, I love the concept and considering a capsule upgrade seems very plausible considering the cost of the mic.
To me a FET 251 is just a fantastic idea.
ADK did a fine job on the T-Fet 251 I got from them, imo. I imagine a BN or TC capsule would make that mic a very special tool. Pondering the return value on upgrading either the GA251 or the 251 T-Fet capsule, I doubt it would add to any resale and I would only do it because I want it for me with less regard for market assessed ROI. It would have to be the same mindset buying a fully customisable kit type 251 I'd gather... Thanks for dreaming outloud, I share your wishes
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Post by paulcheeba on May 28, 2023 13:57:18 GMT -6
Yes I shop in pairs and I like the Haun, Austrian Audio and BN capsules. I think if I do get caught up in this trend then I will go for Blackspade’s or NLP. I have upgraded AR-51’s that sound great and Bocks with NOS 5* tubes.
Was it Aputis that made the bodies? I understand there is a lot of controversy surrounding him and Heiserman.
Why can’t someone else make historically accurate bodies? I’d buy a few. It just seems weird.
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Post by gmichael on May 28, 2023 15:00:18 GMT -6
Yes I shop in pairs and I like the Haun, Austrian Audio and BN capsules. I think if I do get caught up in this trend then I will go for Blackspade’s or NLP. I have upgraded AR-51’s that sound great and Bocks with NOS 5* tubes. Was it Aputis that made the bodies? I understand there is a lot of controversy surrounding him and Heiserman. Why can’t someone else make historically accurate bodies? I’d buy a few. It just seems weird. Controversy seems to follow Aputis from DIY to Heiserman. Some hyper detail fixated craftspeople would probably do well to have a business minder looking after relations.
I have no doubt's that Aputis makes really fine body's but delivery is such a key component to detail! Which gives me an opportunity to spruik one of the things I really like about how beesNeez operates.
I don't ever recall Ben doing pre-orders to finance his ambitions, and potentially hang all the real risks on the buyers.
To me it's kind of scummy but others are quite proud to call themselves a successful business while taking none of the upfront risks. That all but personifies an exploitive model that to then brag about is repulsive to listen to. I will never buy from anyone who calls that type of business a "success" as it speaks to the character that will present itself if tough times are ever encountered.
As to the BeesNeez mics and parts, I would never lose a moment of sleep buying from Ben. Ben just does Ben really well and his dignified approach to his business and sound just runs through everything he presents to flog imo.
I've read others have had problems but I've also seen dude personally own his worst outcomes and offer remedies. The BN expansion has been slow and incremental, with a presence in proper pro audio retailers now very visible rather than a rush to that stage and possibly wobbling it trying to meet retail contract demands. A lot of folks don't fully grasp how extraordinarily expensive it is to run a specialty boutique type business in Australia.
To then succeed at it for decades is almost monumental. That I also like the sound of some of his mics I've gotten to use, makes it a 1st choice for any capsule changes I'd possibly consider. But I am a bit of a chicken shit with detail soldering, I'd probably send whatever I wanted modded up to him and get him to do it!
The NLP is quite a stunner isn't it?!
I'm a genuine sucker for the cannon connector of the mic cable being painted to match the body..maybe that seems shallow as but I think it's such an awesome detail that speaks to the attentiveness that goes into the whole microphone. I don't know who made the GA251 capsule and I do wonder about it.
Bo says very little about specific components. I'd still like to know!
My [generally less professionally regarded] ADK has an unspecified capsule.
It's their business and however the see fit to conduct that business is little of my concern, so long as the results are apparent and of a quality standard, which I think they are
A California based little birdie I/we know says the ADK might be 3U and to that I'd only say "great job!". If brands pay for Chinese quality they can deliver quality, many brands tend to go Chinese manufacturing to minimise costs and that business decision usually gets hung on the Chinese in a back handed economic racism move, intended or not. Gonna look out for the Blackspade mics, haven't heard that name in quite awhile actually.
* Very chatty early morning post is therapy for my avoiding a vocal tuning job I'm just struggling to get started on. I don't feel up to any masochistic activities today..:-)
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Post by gmichael on May 28, 2023 16:16:58 GMT -6
Do you know of a reliable reputable source to purchase the 6072 5 star tube from? What tips would you have for buying these specific tubes? Anyone?
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Post by drumsound on May 28, 2023 17:21:39 GMT -6
An artist or even an autobody worker should be able to make that happen, if we're just talking about the body. Hell, if's it's just a color thing, you should be able to customize it. Well it isn't that simple if you want to replicate all the parts. A majority of the internal parts are crystal clear acrylic. Injection moulding acrylic and ending up with completely clear, bubble free parts is a pita. I know all these manufactrers have struggled with this to varying degrees of success. Just the switch assembly is a nightmare to put together and there are so many fidgety mechanical parts like the metal struts that hold the bottom threaded collar onto the component board by just pressure and spring leafs. I was talking external cosmetics. Of course what you're talking about is much more intense. |
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Post by ab101 on May 28, 2023 17:42:40 GMT -6
Do you know of a reliable reputable source to purchase the 6072 5 star tube from? What tips would you have for buying these specific tubes? Anyone?
I have had good luck with the 1950s GE 5 star 6072 tube and the 1960s GE 5 star 6072a (note the "a") tubes. I have used them in the Soundelux, Telefunken USA and Upton 251s. I always buy these NOS and hopefully there are more out there. There is a guy who goes by "Bowie" on this forum and on gearspace, that is a fantastic person to buy tubes from, and I would buy them from him if they are NOS or not, as I believe he tests them very well. |
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Post by tasteliketape on May 28, 2023 17:45:45 GMT -6
Very interested in the NLP 251 w/6072 .Decent price
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 28, 2023 17:47:56 GMT -6
An artist or even an autobody worker should be able to make that happen, if we're just talking about the body. Hell, if's it's just a color thing, you should be able to customize it. Well it isn't that simple if you want to replicate all the parts. A majority of the internal parts are crystal clear acrylic. Injection moulding acrylic and ending up with completely clear, bubble free parts is a pita. I know all these manufactrers have struggled with this to varying degrees of success. Just the switch assembly is a nightmare to put together and there are so many fidgety mechanical parts like the metal struts that hold the bottom threaded collar onto the component board by just pressure and spring leafs. You are absolutely right molding clear acrylic without bubbles is an art form best left to those who understand the foibles but fortunately that isn’t the only way to work with it. In the age of affordable CNC it makes much more sense for a small scale manufacturer to buy sheet stock and machine it. While you would have to be careful with speed of machining for heat reasons it has been done for years. At least 40 because we were do it in middle school with hand tools saws and sanders. |
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Post by chessparov on May 28, 2023 17:57:02 GMT -6
Colonel Sanders?
Chris
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on May 28, 2023 18:10:12 GMT -6
No he was a Drill Sargent Who saw everything! |
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Post by gmichael on May 28, 2023 18:15:10 GMT -6
Do you know of a reliable reputable source to purchase the 6072 5 star tube from? What tips would you have for buying these specific tubes? Anyone?
I have had good luck with the 1950s GE 5 star 6072 tube and the 1960s GE 5 star 6072a (note the "a") tubes. I have used them in the Soundelux, Telefunken USA and Upton 251s. I always buy these NOS and hopefully there are more out there. There is a guy who goes by "Bowie" on this forum and on gearspace, that is a fantastic person to buy tubes from, and I would buy them from him if they are NOS or not, as I believe he tests them very well. Aw thanks AB, that is a recommendation I absolutely will follow up on! +Who could say no to a deal with a person named Bowie?!!lol
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Post by gmichael on May 28, 2023 19:50:25 GMT -6
Thank you for helping out with that sms kick around earlier. I really appreciate it  |
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Post by Vincent R. on May 28, 2023 20:08:46 GMT -6
I have had good luck with the 1950s GE 5 star 6072 tube and the 1960s GE 5 star 6072a (note the "a") tubes. I have used them in the Soundelux, Telefunken USA and Upton 251s. I always buy these NOS and hopefully there are more out there. There is a guy who goes by "Bowie" on this forum and on gearspace, that is a fantastic person to buy tubes from, and I would buy them from him if they are NOS or not, as I believe he tests them very well. Aw thanks AB, that is a recommendation I absolutely will follow up on! +Who could say no to a deal with a person named Bowie?!!lol
is a great resource. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on May 28, 2023 20:35:12 GMT -6
Do you know of a reliable reputable source to purchase the 6072 5 star tube from? What tips would you have for buying these specific tubes? Anyone?
I have had good luck with the 1950s GE 5 star 6072 tube and the 1960s GE 5 star 6072a (note the "a") tubes. I have used them in the Soundelux, Telefunken USA and Upton 251s. I always buy these NOS and hopefully there are more out there. There is a guy who goes by "Bowie" on this forum and on gearspace, that is a fantastic person to buy tubes from, and I would buy them from him if they are NOS or not, as I believe he tests them very well. Absolutely Bowie is to be trusted and his prices are reasonable. |
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Post by Chad on May 28, 2023 20:58:28 GMT -6
I have had good luck with the 1950s GE 5 star 6072 tube and the 1960s GE 5 star 6072a (note the "a") tubes. I have used them in the Soundelux, Telefunken USA and Upton 251s. I always buy these NOS and hopefully there are more out there. There is a guy who goes by "Bowie" on this forum and on gearspace, that is a fantastic person to buy tubes from, and I would buy them from him if they are NOS or not, as I believe he tests them very well. Absolutely Bowie is to be trusted and his prices are reasonable. I’ve learned so much from Christian Whitmore (Bowie) in our exchanges. What an educational experience it is to buy from him. HIGHLY recommended. |
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Post by reddirt on May 28, 2023 21:59:48 GMT -6
Another plus for Bowie
Cheers, Ross
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Post by hadaja on May 28, 2023 23:06:37 GMT -6
All my Bock 251’s were improved from Bowies’ purchased tubes.
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Post by wiz on May 28, 2023 23:30:14 GMT -6
Bowie
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Post by gmichael on May 29, 2023 12:44:09 GMT -6
All these recommendations for Bowie really kind of move me. I genuinely feel I'm finally in the right forum and hope to one day present myself as a comrade in arms with the obviously like minded folks. I've often believed that to best get along in one's own tribe, everyone has to share a thread of insanity that normalises and unites those that might otherwise be misfits in a world that prefers and favours sameness and unremarkable.
I decided to go through all of my tube gear and see what I have been meaning to upgrade or swap over and make one order to cover a few different appliances and microphones.
I'm truly touched by how everyone has recommended Bowie,it's really assuring and quite the beautiful display of humanity. and no...I don't try to romanticise everything...define "everything" would you? ;-)
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 29, 2023 15:20:04 GMT -6
All these recommendations for Bowie really kind of move me. I genuinely feel I'm finally in the right forum and hope to one day present myself as a comrade in arms with the obviously like minded folks. I've often believed that to best get along in one's own tribe, everyone has to share a thread of insanity that normalises and unites those that might otherwise be misfits in a world that prefers and favours sameness and unremarkable. I decided to go through all of my tube gear and see what I have been meaning to upgrade or swap over and make one order to cover a few different appliances and microphones. I'm truly touched by how everyone has recommended Bowie,it's really assuring and quite the beautiful display of humanity. and no...I don't try to romanticise everything...define "everything" would you? ;-) Gene, A lot of the agreement on Bowie comes from the fact that he doesn’t make you feel like you need to take part in a religious ceremony or mortgage your house to find a decent tube! So much of the NOS tube market is built on BS. Christian just tells it like it is an understands very few can afford to buy a tube that costs more than a used Toyota😎 |
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Post by gmichael on May 29, 2023 15:50:29 GMT -6
All these recommendations for Bowie really kind of move me. I genuinely feel I'm finally in the right forum and hope to one day present myself as a comrade in arms with the obviously like minded folks. I've often believed that to best get along in one's own tribe, everyone has to share a thread of insanity that normalises and unites those that might otherwise be misfits in a world that prefers and favours sameness and unremarkable. I decided to go through all of my tube gear and see what I have been meaning to upgrade or swap over and make one order to cover a few different appliances and microphones. I'm truly touched by how everyone has recommended Bowie,it's really assuring and quite the beautiful display of humanity. and no...I don't try to romanticise everything...define "everything" would you? ;-) Gene, A lot of the agreement on Bowie comes from the fact that he doesn’t make you feel like you need to take part in a religious ceremony or mortgage your house to find a decent tube! So much of the NOS tube market is built on BS. Christian just tells it like it is an understands very few can afford to buy a tube that costs more than a used Toyota😎 What?!! No ceremony, that's me out!loljk For as long as I have done this and for as many tubes as I have bought over the years, I really know very little about the component itself. Most of my real world understanding came from owning one of Richard's Black Box channel strips! Pathetic hey. The only successful tube purchase I have ever made on the blind is 4 ECC83's from around 1968. Great sounding tubes. I try them in everything, currently one is residing in a hand wired Vox AC amp and another in a Aphex 207 I got for free, and use for live local stuff. I'm not a total gear snob, I traverse between the realms of full on snobbery and whatever sounds cool to me. Even with microphones I've stopped spending so much time in pursuit of what some will spend a lifetime trying to hunt down/talk about hunting down. I've gone full effective and efficient solutions and try not to get tempted back down the dark path of pursuing " perfection" and now focus on trying to perfect my role in it all rather than hoping to buy it. I reckon I have a lifetime to master myself, it's not like any of us are ever gonna actually fully retire from this. Audio people and artists don't retire, they just die. Or that's my working thesis!
But with tubes my current interest is in trying PaulCheeba's suggestions for a replica 251 tube and for my GA2A, which I am very fond of as it is but would be interested in seeing if tube swaps can give me different characteristics to suit different applications. Paul has a profound prolific history of making great soundings records and to me it's more than obvious he is one of those golden ear kids.
I typically lean in hard when he speaks up on sound, it's also a very English mannerism regarding equipment.
The English often talk more about sounds and others from different parts of the world discuss the people who make sounds.
It's an important distinction that sets British engineers/producers apart. I grew up in UK and as an American who never lived in America until age 17, it was something I noticed almost immediately.
If they don't have what they need they use what they have or they build what they need with a penchant for over engineering.
Maybe that is less so today, everything seems so similar the world over now.
I'm making my list and will get in touch with Mr Bowie and see what he suggests I do :-)
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Post by drbill on May 29, 2023 16:55:35 GMT -6
Right now, I'm completely 110% happy with the "stock" tube in the Heiserman H251. Not sure I'll even pursue any changes..... I think Dave Wheeler hand tunes each one.....
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Post by gmichael on May 29, 2023 17:13:15 GMT -6
Right now, I'm completely 110% happy with the "stock" tube in the Heiserman H251. Not sure I'll even pursue any changes..... I think Dave Wheeler hand tunes each one..... I just read this morning that JJ Blair thinks the H251 is as close to his vintage 251, that he has heard to date.
That's a very ringing endorsement as well as your own, and your preference to leave it as it came to you
I believe the tube is a 6072 TAD/hg.
Googled it a few days ago so and that is what is listed on VK, technically that would be an unconfirmed cite unless Heiserman wrote the VK blurb
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Post by ab101 on May 29, 2023 18:58:53 GMT -6
It is easy to swap tubes though in 251s.
I have the Upton. Dallas said he loves the EH tube it comes with. I tried different five star tubes (6072 and 6072a) and I liked those substitute tubes better. Does this mean it was not great with the original tube? No.
And frankly, I think it is always wise to get a couple of Ge 5 star tubes now, in case you need one later.
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Post by gmichael on May 29, 2023 19:38:11 GMT -6
It is easy to swap tubes though in 251s. I have the Upton. Dallas said he loves the EH tube it comes with. I tried different five star tubes (6072 and 6072a) and I liked those substitute tubes better. Does this mean it was not great with the original tube? No. And frankly, I think it is always wise to get a couple of Ge 5 star tubes now, in case you need one later. Mine has an EH 5*** series, not sure the precise model. It does not look that easy to swap to me! It's reassuring to hear that it possibly is. Agree on the 5 star tubes. I've known Paulcheeba's records for so long and hear his attentive hearing at work so I'm inclined to follow whatever breadcrumbs the bloke leaves for us all. Plus as you say, it simply makes very good sense to buy now before buying is no longer even an option.
It's possible Dallas is listening for different behaviours and his preferences being only indicative what he himself wants to hear back from his builds. Swapping the tube to get closer to ones own preference is a great option and hopefully it's not taken as any kind of untoward perception of his creations. It's very likely my experience with his mic was just down to different tastes, I also prefer a slightly darker sound from ther 251 style mic, open but also a smidge darker than what I heard from the Upton
edit : tube in mine is a Philips 5480w. I know absolutely nothing about this particular tube or how it compares to other microphone grade tubes.
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