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Post by unit7 on May 17, 2023 9:55:05 GMT -6
In da house! Quick comparison with Lucas CS-1. Similar hi end but CS1 seemed more scooped and has more bass and less mid. The Flea sounds creamy in a very nice way. I'm convinced it'll be loved by many singers. BTW, I don't have time for the big shootout I mentioned earlier in this thread, but perhaps next autumn...  |
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Post by Ward on May 17, 2023 10:07:21 GMT -6
As good as the Prohibition 251? Or is that for the bourbon sub-forum? |
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Post by gmichael on May 17, 2023 14:32:36 GMT -6
Get Rick Beato to borrow one for you. He seems to have access to anyone or anything now. Dude has mad influence. Must work 24/7 365 though. Yea true! Rick has been a known quantity in the record business for decades, him finding a fame slot in the industry side of things is really no surprise to anyone I'd guess. He's one of those guys who seems to know "everyone" and has been known by all the right people for what seems forever, in industry and business.
It's probably not how he ever expected to find himself gaining celebrity status but his arrival has many years and a lot of back work behind him. Definitely not an overnight "success"!!  Sometimes I think I se him behave over it, but he'd be a hardened intolerant of any BS dude by this point..it's in the eyes isn't it?
I think I first heard his name was back in 2005-06ish or somewhere along that timeline in a conversation at a Silver Lake studio event on Hyperion called The Boat. What I can't recall was the circumstance I was even there but likely a NYDolls tour.
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Post by paulcheeba on May 20, 2023 23:56:01 GMT -6
JMHO, FWIW . . . The FLEA is head and shoulders above the Bock, which is head and shoulders over the T-Funk. I really want to hear a true tenor with a complex voice (like Vincent or Ariel) in a shoot-out with a FLEA, Heiserman and Upton and maybe also include the new Roswell and OPR. And to be fair to everyone, we have collectively been aching for a decent 251 reproduction for years and now we have a massive number of options! What a time to be alive!! I think this is an exaggeration and there is an element of the emperor’s new clothes with all these late to market 251’s. The Bock with good tubes still sounds pretty great to me even if it doesn’t look authentic. I won’t be rushing to sell my pair unless the Heiserman kills like their 47. I didn't like either singers in this video so it's hard to for me appreciate it. Some softer dynamics would have been nice. Not so hard and sibilant. |
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Post by crillemannen on May 21, 2023 1:49:34 GMT -6
For this type of comparison: 1) the Upton & Heisermann should be included
2) other types of male voice should also be used
Well I think he tried all the models he could get his hands on. There have been lots of comparisons here and on GS of the bock and telefunken to other models. I'm sure as more normal studio owners aquire 251 models we'll hear more tests. I think this gives a good representation of the differences in bass, mids and how they handle sibilance.
He states this is using a Neve preamp. Imagine if this were recorded with an API or Focusrite pre which are a tad brighter/more extended on the top end.
I do have access to Bock, Upton and the GAP so if you hook me up with Flea I could do a pretty good comparison 😁 |
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Post by Ari on May 21, 2023 1:52:08 GMT -6
good lord this sounds good. great job tim & flea
the newfunk doesn't really sound like a ck12, which is weird because i know it is. i prefer the flea. the bock sounds legit but it's got this weird bloat going on in the low mids that sounds pattern-related. i've heard this on real elams too, though. between the bock and flea, it's less like one is more accurate and more like one sounds like a better vintage 251 than the other, at least to my taste.
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Post by paulcheeba on May 21, 2023 23:39:38 GMT -6
That video is why companies shouldn’t allow random shootouts. Although you’d think Flea could stump up for a decent website if they’re worried about perception.
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Post by timcampbell on May 22, 2023 0:42:53 GMT -6
I think this is one of the most honest videos I have seen and gives the listener an experience similar to what they might have if they had the 3 mics in front of them. I am absolutely positive no one would believe a slick video produced by FLEA or one that they paid an influencer to produce. I wouldn't. No manufacturer will every post an unflattering video that puts their product in a bad light compared to the competition.Just take the recent Stam U67 posting. Subtle differences get turned into major flaws.The difference in price between those 67 mics is many thousand dollars and the slight differences could be corrected with a free eq plugin and yet suddenly the Stam is discussed almost as if it sounds nothing like a 67 and shouldn't be considered for purchase. All of us who have recorded professionally know that you work with the tools you have and produce the best sounding music possible even if you only had SM57's to record with. The only difference really is choosing the equipment that resonates with you and allows you to start closest to the final product that you hear in your head.
From the comments beneath the video it sounds as if the poster preferred the Telefunken himself.
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Post by gmichael on May 22, 2023 3:14:51 GMT -6
I think this is one of the most honest videos I have seen and gives the listener an experience similar to what they might have if they had the 3 mics in front of them. I am absolutely positive no one would believe a slick video produced by FLEA or one that they paid an influencer to produce. I wouldn't. No manufacturer will every post an unflattering video that puts their product in a bad light compared to the competition.Just take the recent Stam U67 posting. Subtle differences get turned into major flaws.The difference in price between those 67 mics is many thousand dollars and the slight differences could be corrected with a free eq plugin and yet suddenly the Stam is discussed almost as if it sounds nothing like a 67 and shouldn't be considered for purchase. All of us who have recorded professionally know that you work with the tools you have and produce the best sounding music possible even if you only had SM57's to record with. The only difference really is choosing the equipment that resonates with you and allows you to start closest to the final product that you hear in your head.
From the comments beneath the video it sounds as if the poster preferred the Telefunken himself.
 100%THIS^^^^^^
* I do believe wholeheartedly that if anyone was able to present a trustworthy credible comparison it will be Christian. He has absolutely proven he has the skills, strength of character and the emotional intelligence to be fair, honest and open.
If he does reach an agreement with Ivan and Milos I'm certain it would go a very long way to asserting his place as a trusted source for competent microphone assessments comparisons and demonstrations.
My intuition tells me Chris is a very genuine person and is authentic in his efforts and achievements.
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Post by Ward on May 22, 2023 7:55:39 GMT -6
I think this is one of the most honest videos I have seen and gives the listener an experience similar to what they might have if they had the 3 mics in front of them. I am absolutely positive no one would believe a slick video produced by FLEA or one that they paid an influencer to produce. I wouldn't. No manufacturer will every post an unflattering video that puts their product in a bad light compared to the competition.Just take the recent Stam U67 posting. Subtle differences get turned into major flaws.The difference in price between those 67 mics is many thousand dollars and the slight differences could be corrected with a free eq plugin and yet suddenly the Stam is discussed almost as if it sounds nothing like a 67 and shouldn't be considered for purchase. All of us who have recorded professionally know that you work with the tools you have and produce the best sounding music possible even if you only had SM57's to record with. The only difference really is choosing the equipment that resonates with you and allows you to start closest to the final product that you hear in your head. From the comments beneath the video it sounds as if the poster preferred the Telefunken himself.
100%THIS^^^^^^ * I do believe wholeheartedly that if anyone was able to present a trustworthy credible comparison it will be Christian. He has absolutely proven he has the skills, strength of character and the emotional intelligence to be fair, honest and open.
If he does reach an agreement with Ivan and Milos I'm certain it would go a very long way to asserting his place as a trusted source for competent microphone assessments comparisons and demonstrations.
My intuition tells me Chris is a very genuine person and is authentic in his efforts and achievements.
Really really liking your posts and am so happy you’ve joined us! |
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Post by chessparov on May 22, 2023 8:27:57 GMT -6
That video is why companies shouldn’t allow random shootouts. Although you’d think Flea could stump up for a decent website if they’re worried about perception. Hmm... Guess I finally have a chance to give a good listen, later today. Will also check out their website. Chris |
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Post by Vincent R. on May 22, 2023 8:53:10 GMT -6
I think this is one of the most honest videos I have seen and gives the listener an experience similar to what they might have if they had the 3 mics in front of them. I am absolutely positive no one would believe a slick video produced by FLEA or one that they paid an influencer to produce. I wouldn't. No manufacturer will every post an unflattering video that puts their product in a bad light compared to the competition.Just take the recent Stam U67 posting. Subtle differences get turned into major flaws.The difference in price between those 67 mics is many thousand dollars and the slight differences could be corrected with a free eq plugin and yet suddenly the Stam is discussed almost as if it sounds nothing like a 67 and shouldn't be considered for purchase. All of us who have recorded professionally know that you work with the tools you have and produce the best sounding music possible even if you only had SM57's to record with. The only difference really is choosing the equipment that resonates with you and allows you to start closest to the final product that you hear in your head.
From the comments beneath the video it sounds as if the poster preferred the Telefunken himself.
100%THIS^^^^^^
* I do believe wholeheartedly that if anyone was able to present a trustworthy credible comparison it will be Christian. He has absolutely proven he has the skills, strength of character and the emotional intelligence to be fair, honest and open.
If he does reach an agreement with Ivan and Milos I'm certain it would go a very long way to asserting his place as a trusted source for competent microphone assessments comparisons and demonstrations.
My intuition tells me Chris is a very genuine person and is authentic in his efforts and achievements.
Christian is a great choice for this shootout as he has access to a few of the high end competitors. When I finally get my hands on one I'll probably be comparing it to my FleA 49 and maybe my MK-U67. I also recognize that mine is not the voice most people will be recording with it. Still, Andrea Bocelli is often seen on a 251, so it's got me super curious, even if my voice is a touch more robust than his. |
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Post by paulcheeba on May 22, 2023 15:56:11 GMT -6
Well I think he tried all the models he could get his hands on. There have been lots of comparisons here and on GS of the bock and telefunken to other models. I'm sure as more normal studio owners aquire 251 models we'll hear more tests. I think this gives a good representation of the differences in bass, mids and how they handle sibilance.
He states this is using a Neve preamp. Imagine if this were recorded with an API or Focusrite pre which are a tad brighter/more extended on the top end.
I do have access to Bock, Upton and the GAP so if you hook me up with Flea I could do a pretty good comparison 😁 How about Heiserman? I’d love to hear a good comparison with the Flea. Some close proximity softer singing would also be cool. |
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Post by gmichael on May 22, 2023 16:11:42 GMT -6
100%THIS^^^^^^ * I do believe wholeheartedly that if anyone was able to present a trustworthy credible comparison it will be Christian. He has absolutely proven he has the skills, strength of character and the emotional intelligence to be fair, honest and open.
If he does reach an agreement with Ivan and Milos I'm certain it would go a very long way to asserting his place as a trusted source for competent microphone assessments comparisons and demonstrations.
My intuition tells me Chris is a very genuine person and is authentic in his efforts and achievements.
Really really liking your posts and am so happy you’ve joined us! Thank you kind man, and likewise. It's a breath of relief to be able to talk more openly without much concern for rapscallions crawling out of the woodwork and attacking for the sake of attacking. A perfect forum scenario for me is being in the company of people more experienced than myself and willingly sharing their particular expertise in a manner that does not ever sound like a person on high looking down or talking down to anyone. Add to that the specialists whose niche expertise that is so covalantly shared makes for a real balanced and enlightening online forum experience. I wish I had transitioned here long ago! I'm certain the mods are all on top of everything but I have yet to come across anyone who has jumped out needing a minder to reign in some low minded petulant or caustic dismissive attitude, rather a really welcoming intelligent articulate mob of serious professionals taken seriously and treating each other with respect and dignity. I'm in for this! Thanks for the acquainting response Ward, it's a pleasure to meet you gene
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Post by Ward on May 23, 2023 6:19:00 GMT -6
I do have access to Bock, Upton and the GAP so if you hook me up with Flea I could do a pretty good comparison 😁 How about Heiserman? I’d love to hear a good comparison with the Flea. Some close proximity softer singing would also be cool. Also keenly awaiting this shoot-out! Hoping that perhaps jsteiger can put 'Dolly' forward and that FLEA and Heiserman will be shot out against it! I'd like to have one of each. |
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Post by gmichael on May 23, 2023 16:51:50 GMT -6
I do have access to Bock, Upton and the GAP so if you hook me up with Flea I could do a pretty good comparison 😁 How about Heiserman? I’d love to hear a good comparison with the Flea. Some close proximity softer singing would also be cool. ^^^YES!!!! My preference would be to hear a solid professional female session singer who can do several vocal styles better than well enough and knows how to work in front of a mic, has nice tone whether in chest or head voice.
More Nina less Celine-ish and right up on that grill!  If in a adequate room, in both omni and cardioid would be very informative to me.
I guess me personally I just want to know. I had to make 251 purchase decisions recently and
mostly had to factor in what was available to me or could be had in a very timely manner. Though I'm very happy with my decisions, I still want to know and may still pursue the FleA. Admittedly, the Heiserman is much less interesting to me,
I have no logical explanation for this. I have this same feeling towards the Upton and I can't shake it. It's completely
emotion based I'm certain, why is another question- but I trust my intuition, I have to.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 23, 2023 16:59:36 GMT -6
How about Heiserman? I’d love to hear a good comparison with the Flea. Some close proximity softer singing would also be cool. ^^^YES!!!! My preference would be to hear a solid professional female session singer who can do several vocal styles better than well enough and knows how to work in front of a mic, has nice tone whether in chest or head voice.
More Nina less Celine-ish and right up on that grill! If in a adequate room, in both omni and cardioid would be very informative to me.
I guess me personally I just want to know. I had to make 251 purchase decisions recently and
mostly had to factor in what was available to me or could be had in a very timely manner. Though I'm very happy with my decisions, I still want to know and may still pursue the FleA. Admittedly, the Heiserman is much less interesting to me,
I have no logical explanation for this. I have this same feeling towards the Upton and I can't shake it. It's completely
emotion based I'm certain, why is another question- but I trust my intuition, I have to.
The choice of transducers ( mics and speakers) is very emotional we are reacting to what they get right and wrong. Our personal reaction to distortions is visceral and not always easily explained. Those who except it have a much easier time navigating the world of mics, those who don’t are left chasing the unubtaineable. |
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Post by wiz on May 23, 2023 17:43:24 GMT -6
I keep looking at 251 (clones) and keep asking myself.. where is the price difference?
Why are 251s way more expensive than other tube mics, often from the same manufacturers....
Eg the Bock 251 that UA is putting out is listed at 12.4 grand here in OZ!!!!! The Telefunken 20K....
and these are clones!!!!
Its a capsule, power supply, tube, transformer and a handful of components....why aren't these things in the same ball park as other tube mic clones....?
cheers
Wiz
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Post by gmichael on May 23, 2023 18:45:09 GMT -6
I keep looking at 251 (clones) and keep asking myself.. where is the price difference? Why are 251s way more expensive than other tube mics, often from the same manufacturers.... Eg the Bock 251 that UA is putting out is listed at 12.4 grand here in OZ!!!!! The Telefunken 20K.... and these are clones!!!! Its a capsule, power supply, tube, transformer and a handful of components....why aren't these things in the same ball park as other tube mic clones....? cheers Wiz FASHION.
What you describe I suppose it is part of what feeds my hesitation with certain builders charging what they are charging. I'm happy they are making a name and a living with their goods but it also very much feels exploitative.
Whether that is a positive or a negative is to the purchaser alone to rationalise and contemplate. This whole thing with the 251's reminds me of a Kalil Gibran poem.
paraphrase-
No one wanted the free beautiful pomegranates the farmer wanted to share until he made them so unreasonably expensive, flocks lined up to buy the prestige of having what could have been free to all.
I'm not suggesting mics should be free, but the poignancy of the poem does draw a light on a timeless phenomena of being human.
The eccentric/absurd pricing may in part be due to the costs/meticulous labour involved, but to an even more profound extent it speaks to human behaviour and character, I think. Mind you, I judge no one.
Everyone is entitled to their own version of happiness.
Enterprising exploitative pursuits are admired by the masses, it's that admiration which often deems a venture or product a success or not, as much as the product itself!
Much must be overlooked if not ignored to fully get on board with it. It's not just about money.
But those whose values are inconvenienced by this line of thought will suggest it is.
Just my thoughts or feelings on it, not saying I'm right.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 23, 2023 18:50:34 GMT -6
I keep looking at 251 (clones) and keep asking myself.. where is the price difference? Why are 251s way more expensive than other tube mics, often from the same manufacturers.... Eg the Bock 251 that UA is putting out is listed at 12.4 grand here in OZ!!!!! The Telefunken 20K.... and these are clones!!!! Its a capsule, power supply, tube, transformer and a handful of components....why aren't these things in the same ball park as other tube mic clones....? cheers Wiz Hunch and just a hunch nobody has mass marketed a cheap in exact clone that lands inside the sonic ball park, yet. When we see the Warm W251 prices will come down. For now it’s a profitable mic. |
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Post by gmichael on May 23, 2023 18:57:03 GMT -6
Well, there is much to that too I reckon. To pursue the unobtainable is also to as much about being seen to be in pursuit. It's the chase not the kill.That approach could be masked as a scientific pursuit but in all likelihood it would be very much an emotional pursuit, an unwillingness to concede to a notion of defeat or compromise. A fear that respite from the pursuit would translate to some kind of retirement from that hunt , regardless of all the other pursuits or hunts that never get the attention that perhaps they deserve. Like happiness absent of grief and pain. The most difficult lesson in all of life is letting go, mostly of our fears. We love and protect our fears above all else. The fear of not having what a colleague has can be very real for some, because there is so much value and emphasis put on uniformity, sameness.. and less so on what is remarkably different and unique.
The choice of transducers ( mics and speakers) is very emotional we are reacting to what they get right and wrong. Our personal reaction to distortions is visceral and not always easily explained. Those who except it have a much easier time navigating the world of mics, those who don’t are left chasing the unubtaineable. |
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Post by gmichael on May 23, 2023 19:05:25 GMT -6
I keep looking at 251 (clones) and keep asking myself.. where is the price difference? Why are 251s way more expensive than other tube mics, often from the same manufacturers.... Eg the Bock 251 that UA is putting out is listed at 12.4 grand here in OZ!!!!! The Telefunken 20K.... and these are clones!!!! Its a capsule, power supply, tube, transformer and a handful of components....why aren't these things in the same ball park as other tube mic clones....? cheers Wiz Hunch and just a hunch nobody has mass marketed a cheap in exact clone that lands inside the sonic ball park, yet. When we see the Warm W251 prices will come down. For now it’s a profitable mic. Interesting that a Warm mic would even get a mention in this thread.
It stands as the antithesis of all that matters to the men/women in this thread if I'm reading the room right.
I understand your point though, but I feel like I need a shower now
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Post by chessparov on May 23, 2023 19:11:19 GMT -6
"The amoeba outlives the tiger because it divides continously, in its immortal monotony"-Shibumi by Trevanian. When my good Buddy-Chuck Norris divides however... There are no remainders.
Chris
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 23, 2023 19:14:46 GMT -6
The choice of transducers ( mics and speakers) is very emotional we are reacting to what they get right and wrong. Our personal reaction to distortions is visceral and not always easily explained. Those who except it have a much easier time navigating the world of mics, those who don’t are left chasing the unubtaineable.Well, there is much to that too I reckon. To pursue the unobtainable is also to as much about being seen to be in pursuit. It's the chase not the kill.That approach could be masked as a scientific pursuit but in all likelihood it would be very much an emotional pursuit, an unwillingness to concede to a notion of defeat or compromise. A fear that respite from the pursuit would translate to some kind of retirement from that hunt , regardless of all the other pursuits or hunts that never get the attention that perhaps they deserve. Like happiness absent of grief and pain. The most difficult lesson in all of life is letting go, mostly of our fears. We love and protect our fears above all else. The fear of not having what a colleague has can be very real for some, because there is so much value and emphasis put on uniformity, sameness.. and less so on what is remarkably different and unique. See I have always tried to take a different path, probably because I have been distinctly middle class. I have always strived to find the lesser appreciated gems ( Sony, MBHO Milab ). Unfortunately as a freelancer the world changed, we moved from professional rooms to bedrooms. This meant my gear priorities changed, I needed to bring what I expected to find in any decent room example I needed 8ch of matching pre’s ( OK they didn’t need to be Dan Alexander 1272 clones with iron pulled from real Neve’s but the first 6 ch were bargains). Granted the years spent running retail for the worlds largest mic dealer and all those demos helped expose me to what would become affordable gems and a handful of world class clients meant exposure to the world class standards. |
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Post by chessparov on May 23, 2023 19:17:37 GMT -6
It's the Midas touch!
Chris
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100%THIS^^^^^^
