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Post by aremos on May 10, 2023 10:00:32 GMT -6
For this type of comparison: 1) the Upton & Heisermann should be included
2) other types of male voice should also be used
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Post by Vincent R. on May 10, 2023 10:38:38 GMT -6
aremos completely agree about a different kind of male vocal. As for the Upton and Heiserman, I'm not sure who can get all those heavy hitters in the studio and one time, but I am all for it!
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Post by timcampbell on May 10, 2023 10:42:40 GMT -6
For this type of comparison: 1) the Upton & Heisermann should be included
2) other types of male voice should also be used
Well I think he tried all the models he could get his hands on. There have been lots of comparisons here and on GS of the bock and telefunken to other models. I'm sure as more normal studio owners aquire 251 models we'll hear more tests. I think this gives a good representation of the differences in bass, mids and how they handle sibilance.
He states this is using a Neve preamp. Imagine if this were recorded with an API or Focusrite pre which are a tad brighter/more extended on the top end.
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Post by Ward on May 10, 2023 12:04:20 GMT -6
JMHO, FWIW . . . The FLEA is head and shoulders above the Bock, which is head and shoulders over the T-Funk. I really want to hear a true tenor with a complex voice (like Vincent or Ariel) in a shoot-out with a FLEA, Heiserman and Upton and maybe also include the new Roswell and OPR. And to be fair to everyone, we have collectively been aching for a decent 251 reproduction for years and now we have a massive number of options! What a time to be alive!! |
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Post by seawell on May 10, 2023 12:57:29 GMT -6
I hate to criticize because these shootouts aren't easy to do but the Bock was definitely in the best position to the vocalists. Anyway, just something to keep in mind. I really like everything I've heard from the Flea so far!
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Post by gmichael on May 10, 2023 18:29:01 GMT -6
I hate to criticize because these shootouts aren't easy to do but the Bock was definitely in the best position to the vocalists. Anyway, just something to keep in mind. I really like everything I've heard from the Flea so far! You are 100% right and even more so for pointing this out. Soon as I saw the setup I real life face palmed. I saw this comparison on my Instagram feed and really felt they should have taken it down.
I'd be buzzing to share and show off $30+k in microphones too I suppose. Just my 2cents
** FleA make some of the finest microphones on the planet. This comparison really undermines just what great microphones they are
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Post by teejay on May 11, 2023 15:00:10 GMT -6
I hate to criticize because these shootouts aren't easy to do but the Bock was definitely in the best position to the vocalists. Anyway, just something to keep in mind. I really like everything I've heard from the Flea so far! I know I'm stating the obvious to the experts here, but I get noticably different response just moving a few degrees off-axis on my REDD. Based on that experience I'd agree that the Bock had the advantage. And "Raw" Male Vocal is an apropos description.  |
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Post by chessparov on May 11, 2023 19:18:15 GMT -6
I had to stop eating Sushi.
Not cooked enough.
Chris
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Post by Johnkenn on May 11, 2023 20:52:11 GMT -6
JMHO, FWIW . . . The FLEA is head and shoulders above the Bock, which is head and shoulders over the T-Funk. I really want to hear a true tenor with a complex voice (like Vincent or Ariel) in a shoot-out with a FLEA, Heiserman and Upton and maybe also include the new Roswell and OPR. And to be fair to everyone, we have collectively been aching for a decent 251 reproduction for years and now we have a massive number of options! What a time to be alive!! Uh. Me. Send me a flea Tim! |
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Post by Vincent R. on May 12, 2023 10:08:46 GMT -6
JMHO, FWIW . . . The FLEA is head and shoulders above the Bock, which is head and shoulders over the T-Funk. I really want to hear a true tenor with a complex voice (like Vincent or Ariel) in a shoot-out with a FLEA, Heiserman and Upton and maybe also include the new Roswell and OPR. And to be fair to everyone, we have collectively been aching for a decent 251 reproduction for years and now we have a massive number of options! What a time to be alive!! Uh. Me. Send me a flea Tim! You'll probably have to ask Ivan. |
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Post by ab101 on May 12, 2023 11:52:35 GMT -6
Uh. Me. Send me a flea Tim! You'll probably have to ask Ivan. I hope Ivan has the bandwidth to join this Board. Ivan is fantastic! |
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Post by crillemannen on May 12, 2023 12:27:27 GMT -6
I'd love to demo the Flea 251 on my channel but no luck so far ha! Flea seems half interested at my proposal š¤£ which is fine. I'll probably ask Ivan again at some point anyways. But I do think it's weird for all of these companies selling expensive mics to have little to no tests online to actually hear the mics.
Personally I can't judge a mic from hearing some raw unprocessed files that's why I always try to present my mic tests in a song context.
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Post by Vincent R. on May 12, 2023 13:12:57 GMT -6
I'd love to demo the Flea 251 on my channel but no luck so far ha! Flea seems half interested at my proposal š¤£ which is fine. I'll probably ask Ivan again at some point anyways. But I do think it's weird for all of these companies selling expensive mics to have little to no tests online to actually hear the mics. Personally I can't judge a mic from hearing some raw unprocessed files that's why I always try to present my mic tests in a song context. Ivan and I spoke about it, but the last time I checked in he just didn't have one to lend out. Sales have been good. I've been meaning to reach out and check again, but I don't have the time to do it at the moment. |
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Post by paulcheeba on May 14, 2023 0:33:13 GMT -6
I'd love to demo the Flea 251 on my channel but no luck so far ha! Flea seems half interested at my proposal š¤£ which is fine. I'll probably ask Ivan again at some point anyways. But I do think it's weird for all of these companies selling expensive mics to have little to no tests online to actually hear the mics. Personally I can't judge a mic from hearing some raw unprocessed files that's why I always try to present my mic tests in a song context. They want you to buy one. The other issue is they canāt control the quality and are afraid it might reflect badly. |
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Post by gmichael on May 15, 2023 18:04:36 GMT -6
I'd love to demo the Flea 251 on my channel but no luck so far ha! Flea seems half interested at my proposal š¤£ which is fine. I'll probably ask Ivan again at some point anyways. But I do think it's weird for all of these companies selling expensive mics to have little to no tests online to actually hear the mics. Personally I can't judge a mic from hearing some raw unprocessed files that's why I always try to present my mic tests in a song context. Though there are probably several valid reasons for not lending demo's out for review [anymore], I do not for a second thing it is anything personal. FleA are now such a known quantity in the world of recording, I think they do well choosing to remain enigmatic.
Similar to Myburgh, those that know about their microphones are more likely to approach them directly and either buy or not.
Whereas the people who have yet to discover these highly regarded artisan microphones are probably not what Flea would regard as potential clientele. There are other builders choosing to follow this type of model, but they may or may not have necessarily achieved the status of the builders who can do this and not experience any impact to their business.
It's not as simple as just making a good microphone super expensive and building cult following on forum threads and in more than a few cases, I see this mistake being made in the very highest price point mics. I get what they are doing but I think Flea took a really slow roll into commanding the respect of their clients. Demanding respect and commanding respect are 2 very different approaches.
I love my Flea's and have even more respect and admiration for the type of people Ivan and Milos are. Nothing pretentious,self aggrandising or arrogant about either of these high quality humans. Your relationship with Flea will change dramatically as a client, and maybe that is something worthy of including in any review of their microphones.
PS- I love your channel!!
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Post by chessparov on May 15, 2023 19:42:59 GMT -6
Thanks again Christian! And all you other "Shoot out" guys.  Chris |
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Post by drumsound on May 15, 2023 20:50:48 GMT -6
I'd love to demo the Flea 251 on my channel but no luck so far ha! Flea seems half interested at my proposal š¤£ which is fine. I'll probably ask Ivan again at some point anyways. But I do think it's weird for all of these companies selling expensive mics to have little to no tests online to actually hear the mics. Personally I can't judge a mic from hearing some raw unprocessed files that's why I always try to present my mic tests in a song context. That's why I tend to like your videos. |
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Post by paulcheeba on May 15, 2023 21:16:54 GMT -6
From my experience with the finest companies they are only interested in endorsing friends or people at the top of their game and then they generally expect exclusivity. Otherwise you have to ābeg, borrow or stealā from colleagues etc. Yours is one of the better channels and in an ideal world you should be given access but unfortunately thatās not how it works. The biggest influencers seem to know the least and only have a shallow approach towards their content. Which is sadly, generally poor quality.
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Post by aremos on May 15, 2023 21:42:24 GMT -6
It all boils down to one's own voice & how it's handled by the mic. The prestige or history of the mic company is irrelevant to one's personal test/try-out with that mic & in one's own environment. So a dealer &/or company should be willing to issue a time period for testing & a full refund if the customer is not satisfied. So if the company doesn't have a "loaner" then one should be able to buy it & return it, within a reasonable amount of time, for a refund if it's not a "fit". |
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Post by drbill on May 15, 2023 23:16:05 GMT -6
Had my first really in depth, multiple instruments, multiple vocalists with a 251 tonight. The opposition 251. LOL
All I can say is wow. I've missed out having a 251 for all these years.
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Post by chessparov on May 16, 2023 9:23:42 GMT -6
Hmm... All this reminds me of two FLEAS that were hanging out. After a long and spirited discussion, over the various and sundry 251's... One finally asked the other, "Well should we walk?" "Or just take the dog?" Chris |
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Post by gmichael on May 16, 2023 14:29:52 GMT -6
From my experience with the finest companies they are only interested in endorsing friends or people at the top of their game and then they generally expect exclusivity. Otherwise you have to ābeg, borrow or stealā from colleagues etc. Yours is one of the better channels and in an ideal world you should be given access but unfortunately thatās not how it works. The biggest influencers seem to know the least and only have a shallow approach towards their content. Which is sadly, generally poor quality. Pretty much and in a nut.
I think some folks are still on the fence about where "influencers" fit in with how they see their companies image or more importantly see themselves.
It's a lot of control to hand over to one person.
I personally do not care for the term "influencer" and I am pretty sure many small business operators want to be the influencer for their own goods.
Ultimately these influencer channels want/expect to be paid to make content for reviews or demos. Until a time where an "influencer" has the "influence" to be solicited by product people seeking to be demoes on their channel, it's on the influencer to buck up and buy the products they want to demo and also outline what type of channel they want to be seen as.
Basically the coined term "influencer" is just modern speak for an infomercial/advertorial production company.
I think the term influencer confuses all sides of the content created, influencers believe themselves celebrity and their "fans" provide them that but it is not proper celebrity in the sense that some profound achievement in arts science technology or music has laid the foundation for an earned celebrity status.
Having said all that, Christain is a standout channel and I greatly admire all the effort that goes into his videos. I hope he continues building rapport with the world for practical honest insight of equipment. I don't really care for the Warm audio advertorials he does, to me it diminishes the value of the channel amongst serious audience that is probably his actual audience, not kids looking for someone to sanction or reinforce their decision to buy cheap questionable equipment because it looks the part and fits their budget and inability/unwillingness to save up and buy proper equipment. Just my 2 cents
* My wife and I are both featured on the Flea site, partly because of specific 2 artists I have worked long term for in both non audio and audio roles but mainly because we are all friends, nothing more to it. My wife is half Czech/English and from her Czech side is from the same spot where Flea is built. We did a studio shot of my wife with her personal Flea 49 and they used it for a trade show t-shirt design. We all love animals and try to be kind humans. So you're spot on with your assessment Mr G!
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Post by crillemannen on May 17, 2023 0:15:48 GMT -6
From my experience with the finest companies they are only interested in endorsing friends or people at the top of their game and then they generally expect exclusivity. Otherwise you have to ābeg, borrow or stealā from colleagues etc. Yours is one of the better channels and in an ideal world you should be given access but unfortunately thatās not how it works. The biggest influencers seem to know the least and only have a shallow approach towards their content. Which is sadly, generally poor quality. Pretty much and in a nut.
I think some folks are still on the fence about where "influencers" fit in with how they see their companies image or more importantly see themselves.
It's a lot of control to hand over to one person.
I personally do not care for the term "influencer" and I am pretty sure many small business operators want to be the influencer for their own goods.
Ultimately these influencer channels want/expect to be paid to make content for reviews or demos. Until a time where an "influencer" has the "influence" to be solicited by product people seeking to be demoes on their channel, it's on the influencer to buck up and buy the products they want to demo and also outline what type of channel they want to be seen as.
Basically the coined term "influencer" is just modern speak for an infomercial/advertorial production company.
I think the term influencer confuses all sides of the content created, influencers believe themselves celebrity and their "fans" provide them that but it is not proper celebrity in the sense that some profound achievement in arts science technology or music has laid the foundation for an earned celebrity status.
Having said all that, Christain is a standout channel and I greatly admire all the effort that goes into his videos. I hope he continues building rapport with the world for practical honest insight of equipment. I don't really care for the Warm audio advertorials he does, to me it diminishes the value of the channel amongst serious audience that is probably his actual audience, not kids looking for someone to sanction or reinforce their decision to buy cheap questionable equipment because it looks the part and fits their budget and inability/unwillingness to save up and buy proper equipment. Just my 2 cents
* My wife and I are both featured on the Flea site, partly because of specific 2 artists I have worked long term for in both non audio and audio roles but mainly because we are all friends, nothing more to it. My wife is half Czech/English and from her Czech side is from the same spot where Flea is built. We did a studio shot of my wife with her personal Flea 49 and they used it for a trade show t-shirt design. We all love animals and try to be kind humans. So you're spot on with your assessment Mr G!
Thanks for the support guys! I was actually interested in hearing the WA-stuff but of course I'm aware that it would render some views. But it's nice to try out the whole range of what is out there not only the boutique stuff. Sure if I had a steady stream of highend stuff coming in I'd gladly focus on that but it's very hard to get my hands demo units. After doing this for over two years I think it's justified to get paid or compensated for the work I put in but most companies aren't willing to do that. I admit it's a fine line between pure paid advertisement and review but when it comes to microphones I can't really see the hurt in doing a good test video as long as I give away the raw files which I always do. Because then people can judge for themselves. So.. can anyone can bully Flea into sending me one š¤£ |
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Post by gmichael on May 17, 2023 2:02:22 GMT -6
After doing this for over two years I think it's justified to get paid or compensated for the work I put in but most companies aren't willing to do that. I admit it's a fine line between pure paid advertisement and review but when it comes to microphones I can't really see the hurt in doing a good test video as long as I give away the raw files which I always do. Because then people can judge for themselves. So.. can anyone can bully Flea into sending me one š¤£ You are absolutely right that would deserve to be paid for the work you do. I think if you discuss what you channel aims to accomplish and spell it all out for companies they will come around to actively contracting you to produce videos for them. Some companies will only want a fawning sycophant type portrayal of their goods and other will welcome the opportunity to fit into the style you have developed and be assessed for what they offer. What most boutique brick and mortar type companies won't want to be a part of is a channel that features multi national corporations that peddle cheap pro audio gear like McDonalds peddles cheeseburgers.
I spoke to an Australian dealer for Warm recently and he said they had exchanged around 146 WA-76's in just a few years, with Warm seemingly not concerned about customer satisfaction, only about racking up the numbers. This is a very stark contrast to what these small boutique builders are doing and the antithesis of who these builders are as people. So to me it all has to line up to appeal these builders, not just how their products will be portrayed by a channel but also how it represents them as people and what company they will keep on a channel. Ultimately it is always down to relationships though isn't it?
Like you and Bo seem to have a solid relationship and you have featured many of his outstanding builds.
Until his remarkable sounding GA251e came into view, he pretty much was the the top of the lower cost tier of quality products. Now, he is in company with and spoken about in conversations with products and builders who are near/at the top.
I actually would have never known about Bo's higher end builds without seeing your channel, and I think his 251's are all fantastic, each model for very different reasons of course. I liked his MKII version and the price fit the budget for a project I am administrating and producing, so I bought it.
Actually it was such a great buy I would have been a complete moron to pass it up
Whatever it is or is not in the realm of replica 251's, part of my decision to buy from Bo was the man himself. A fine human doing a great job fitting in to a tight price point and really showing his passion for the products and his steadfast strength of character in how he delivers.
I am as concerned about the type of person I buy from as the products itself.
I don't need a 1:1 to replica nor do I want to be on the fools errand in pursuit of only that.
I have 3 different 251 "style" microphones, they all sound quite different yet have similar traits that provide me an abundance of choice no single replica could cover. In the case of some of these replica's, I paid less for 3 than I would for 1!
And even further, I will still save up and get the Flea when it fits with my needs and budget.
Honestly Chris, you're not that far from Flea, if it matters enough to you, go down there and visit them in person and start molding a relationship that could be a turning point for your online enterprise.
Looking people in the eye and shaking hands is still a very precious resource fewer and fewer are investing in. You might wind up buying one at cost and have the freedom to make the content you want to make and sell the microphone at a small profit to help keep your costs from blowing out. Or give it away on your channel in a mass media blitz to get wider attention of the audience you are cultivating. You have the talent and personable appeal factor to draw clients in but you'll want to invest in actual relationships up front I think. Business for these type of companies is a very emotional thing particularly for the people behind them who spent a long time all on their own with their designs ideas and hopes for their beloved creations.
Just my thoughts kind friend, in any case I hope you keep doing just what you do and look for ways to do even more with this fine platform you have put so much of your time and passion into. Talk soon man, gene
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Post by paulcheeba on May 17, 2023 3:49:04 GMT -6
Get Rick Beato to borrow one for you. He seems to have access to anyone or anything now. Dude has mad influence. Must work 24/7 365 though.
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