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Post by drumsound on Oct 14, 2022 16:19:30 GMT -6
This is very interesting. I can't seem to glean what the differences are. I was impressed when crillemannen did the video of the less expensive model. I'm 1000% happy with my Upton and I still get gear lust every time I see a new 251. I have a problem. The new GAP looks killer. I would really love to hear a comparison against the less expensive version. I already love what I've heard from that one. I hope there's some good side by side comparisons. |
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Post by ab101 on Oct 14, 2022 17:30:50 GMT -6
It is hard to compare with the Upton because Dallas Upton will "tailor" the capsule to your desire. Also, I have found that different tubes make a difference. I like the 50s ge 5 star 6072s, some prefer the at7s in their mics.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 14, 2022 22:37:00 GMT -6
Maybe! I mean GAP is catching on it seems and have a good reputation these days. Since I know Bo I also know how expensive it is to make a replica with swivel and such so the price makes sense out of that view. Boutique stuff isn't for the masses anyways but I do think it's the best 251 mic I've tried so far. I think people will be impressed 🙂 The best 251 clone I've ever heard is Telefunken ELA M251E but at £11,000 GBP - it's not even on the radar! Stunning mic though. I’ve heard a couple Tele’s that I didn’t particularly care for. But - one of the first ones I heard was a Tele with a vintage cap and 701 and it was amazing. At the time it was $11k. Can only imagine it would be $20 plus now. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 14, 2022 22:38:22 GMT -6
It is hard to compare with the Upton because Dallas Upton will "tailor" the capsule to your desire. Also, I have found that different tubes make a difference. I like the 50s ge 5 star 6072s, some prefer the at7s in their mics. The Upton is a fantastic value for what you get. Great mic all around. |
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Post by reddirt on Oct 15, 2022 3:16:13 GMT -6
Raining 251s - the Gaps look beautifully made as do the Flea and Heisserman. I also see that UA have just released their Bock version which doesn't try to be an exact physical copy and simply doesn't look as good even though similarly priced.
At those prices you'd hope you bought the "best" one.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by opr on Oct 15, 2022 5:17:17 GMT -6
That's one pretty microphone!
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Post by aremos on Oct 15, 2022 11:05:02 GMT -6
250/251 boutique mics I can think of (about 1/2 use CT-12):
ADK
Bock (now UAD)
BSA
FleA
GAP
Heiserman
JJ
OPR
Pearlman
Telefunken
Upton
?
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Post by ab101 on Oct 15, 2022 11:45:32 GMT -6
Advanced Audio can be added to the list. I have not tried the AA Cm251. I did try their CM12se and it was actually very good! (I had low expectations as it was only about $600 at the time.)
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 15, 2022 12:22:34 GMT -6
There was also the studio 39 diy c12 or 251.
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Post by timcampbell on Oct 15, 2022 12:24:07 GMT -6
Well of all of the top shelf 251s out there only GAP isn't using a boutique capsule. I wonder if it is basically 3U Audio's CK12/67 hybrid
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Post by Hudsonic on Oct 15, 2022 12:30:07 GMT -6
Not crazy if you are in Hollywood or making bag with regular frequent big sessions.
The beauty part is that the new mic is by FLEA.
They have the expertise and craftsmanship to offer a fantastic version.
Ivan and FLEA are the best for sure.
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Post by tkaitkai on Oct 15, 2022 13:02:57 GMT -6
250/251 boutique mics I can think of (about 1/2 use CT-12): ADK Bock (now UAD) BSA FleA GAP Heiserman JJ OPR Pearlman Telefunken Upton ? There's also the Mojave MA-1000, Peluso 22 251, Warm Audio WA251, 3U Warbler MKIV & GZ251fet, and Roswell Colares. Probably several more I can't think of or haven't even heard about. |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 15, 2022 14:25:34 GMT -6
250/251 boutique mics I can think of (about 1/2 use CT-12): ADK Bock (now UAD) BSA FleA GAP Heiserman JJ OPR Pearlman Telefunken Upton ? BSA make very high quality mics. Of all the 251 clones out there so far the FLEA is the one that grabs me, based on expectation from reputation, looks and an assured hand made boutique build quality. Now if Wunder Audio decided to make a 251 that might change, as personally I prefer my CM7 (M7 cap) to the FLEA 47 - though to be fair to the FLEA 47 the Wunder CM7s is nearly twice the price so I do think FLEA mics are very good value for money considering the audio quality on offer. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 15, 2022 18:55:22 GMT -6
FleA is also an OEM and makes parts for Wunder and quite a few other manufacturers. The only reason FleA is less expensive is because they make most of their own parts. Wunder specifically goes for a more modern sound and FleA a more vintage sound. So the preference for one or the other is just that, personal preference.
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Post by ab101 on Oct 15, 2022 19:21:40 GMT -6
The Flea has Tim Campbell's capsule. So, I doubt those that have stated issues about Flea's F7 capsule will have those issues with the Flea 251.
Having said that, I am quite happy with the F7 caps in my Flea mics and I preferred it to 3 Wunder mics that I tried. But I might be in a minority in that regard.
(Note the Flea F7 caps were also very good on drum overheads as dual omnis.)
And the Flea communication is top notch. There have been several times I have contacted Ivan at Flea and have had virtually instant results, including shipping arriving in the U.S. within one or two days (like a tube replacement). I like supporting Ivan for his work ethic and communication.
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 16, 2022 2:30:43 GMT -6
FleA is also an OEM and makes parts for Wunder and quite a few other manufacturers. The only reason FleA is less expensive is because they make most of their own parts. Wunder specifically goes for a more modern sound and FleA a more vintage sound. So the preference for one or the other is just that, personal preference. My 15 year old CM7 sounds within a hair of a 47 I used for many years - so close you can track on the same song and you wouldn’t pick it swooping. You don’t get more vintage sounding than that  I do think the FLEA offer a lot for the money, I just just don’t think they quite reach the same sonic league as the Wunder mics. In the case of the CM7 might be the differing capsule or choice of tube. A while back bought a spare NOS EF14 in A++ shape and it cost $400 alone, I think they’re now $500 all these things add up. Everyone has different tastes of course, so if you prefer FLEA mics you’re in luck - they’re cheaper  |
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 16, 2022 6:08:50 GMT -6
FleA is also an OEM and makes parts for Wunder and quite a few other manufacturers. The only reason FleA is less expensive is because they make most of their own parts. Wunder specifically goes for a more modern sound and FleA a more vintage sound. So the preference for one or the other is just that, personal preference. My 15 year old CM7 sounds within a hair of a 47 I used for many years - so close you can track on the same song and you wouldn’t pick it swooping. You don’t get more vintage sounding than that I do think the FLEA offer a lot for the money, I just just don’t think they quite reach the same sonic league as the Wunder mics. In the case of the CM7 might be the differing capsule or choice of tube. A while back bought a spare NOS EF14 in A++ shape and it cost $400 alone, I think they’re now $500 all these things add up. Everyone has different tastes of course, so if you prefer FLEA mics you’re in luck - they’re cheaper Capsule, tube, and transformer choice is everything in this game. Glad you love your Wunder so much. That’s all that really matters. We’re all lucky to have such great options considering the cost of vintage mics these days. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 17, 2022 9:44:43 GMT -6
I am in complete agreement, till you look at the price of what a decent original would cost! True, but still …. £6K just at the moment feels like a crazy reckless purchase - no matter how much I’d love to own one. Now if you’re making money with it then it’s a totally different story of course Honestly, I don’t think it’s marketed for the working musician. More for studios, collectors, etc. There’s not really a great equivalent I guess…but you didn’t see many Brazilian D-28s being played at your local bars growing up. That was mostly wealthy people, heirlooms, studio musicians, etc. I guess technically I own a $5k mic (I bought for much less second hand) but I guess I just don’t see the ROI of having multiples. I’m not a studio either, though. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2022 11:12:27 GMT -6
True, but still …. £6K just at the moment feels like a crazy reckless purchase - no matter how much I’d love to own one. Now if you’re making money with it then it’s a totally different story of course Honestly, I don’t think it’s marketed for the working musician. More for studios, collectors, etc. There’s not really a great equivalent I guess…but you didn’t see many Brazilian D-28s being played at your local bars growing up. That was mostly wealthy people, heirlooms, studio musicians, etc. I guess technically I own a $5k mic (I bought for much less second hand) but I guess I just don’t see the ROI of having multiples. I’m not a studio either, though. Yeah your lucky enough that you still have a bunch of great studios near by, but the niche you do fill is that producer writer and where mid level studios used to sit. Of course most of us who came up in mid level studios there always was a single go to LDC. You have that, it’s just now the dentist down the street ( especially in Nashville) has 3 decent clones. Plus a U87 and 414. |
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Post by winterland on Oct 19, 2022 12:34:29 GMT -6
250/251 boutique mics I can think of (about 1/2 use CT-12): ADK Bock (now UAD) BSA FleA GAP Heiserman JJ OPR Pearlman Telefunken Upton ? I would put the Stam SA-251 in there too. Tim Campbell capsule also. I have one with another coming. I have been very happy with it. Will be A/Bing soon to a Telefunken USA and possibly a vintage Telefunken 251. |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 19, 2022 13:40:29 GMT -6
250/251 boutique mics I can think of (about 1/2 use CT-12): ADK Bock (now UAD) BSA FleA GAP Heiserman JJ OPR Pearlman Telefunken Upton ? I would put the Stam SA-251 in there too. Tim Campbell capsule also. I have one with another coming. I have been very happy with it. Will be A/Bing soon to a Telefunken USA and possibly a vintage Telefunken 251. How long did it take you to receive it from the date you put the order in? My issue with anything STAM is my inability to wait one or two years for a product to arrive - I struggle with next day delivery |
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Post by aremos on Oct 19, 2022 14:15:15 GMT -6
So, based on everyone's feedback & additions, here is an updated list of current 250/251's (clones, types, etc - 20) being made (some I've never heard of): 3U Warbler AA ADK Bock (now UAD) BSA FleA GAP Heiserman JJ Lawson
Mojave 1000 OPR Pearlman Peluso 22 251 Roswell Colares Stam Studio 39 Telefunken Upton Warm
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2022 14:22:58 GMT -6
If we are going to include the Peluso, let’s not forget the Lawson.
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Post by reddirt on Oct 19, 2022 14:38:52 GMT -6
There's only a few that slavishly follow the look though and for me that says a lot about the overall dedication to a great product.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2022 14:52:36 GMT -6
There's only a few that slavishly follow the look though and for me that says a lot about the overall dedication to a great product. Cheers, Ross I get that an honestly I kind of agree, but metal work is one of the most expensive components, so if a manufacturer decides to save some coin by using the same bodies for a bunch of products I get that as well. |
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