ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 31, 2022 8:15:46 GMT -6
Obviously the big hurdle is the VF14 tube. Neumann was able to take a note from FleA's playbook for the M49V and use the 6S6B-V tube, but there really is no replacement for VF14. They could go with the Russian made 6SJ7 which is an equivalent to the EF14 (not VF14). You find those in the Pearlman TM-47 and Peluso 2247SE. That wouldn't be plug and play with the old VF14 tubes though. They could follow Telefunken's route and use a casing for a glass tube with the same specs at the VF14. Who knows? Whatever they do, they'd better make sure it's darn close sonically. There are too many really good replicas to screw it up. How much you wanna speculate that when Sennheiser bought Neumann Berlin, a treasure trove of goodies were found like a crate of unused OG VF14m metal tubes? Maybe 100? Could be . . . that is a real story that has been passed around for a long time. I don't believe it's fact, but would not surprise me if it happened to be the case. If they did, I’m sure the service guys fought tooth and nail for them to support all the old customers. Every clog years the rumor that the guys from Sennheiser toured the Porsche facility where they would build you any Porsche ever made and wanted to do something similar would surface. Before you ever see a U47v I would expect a M50v because I’m sure after the M49v every classical guy and scoring stage was looking at theirs and calling there contact and asking “ when”. Plus nobody would buy 1 they would all be at least a pair. The thing with the 47 is the clone market is so crowded, the 47fet really reignited the FET and there are just a couple of 49 clones. Plus with the 47 you have a significant number of people who’s idea of what a 47 is. Is completely based on clones. Even if you mail it a bunch of guys are going to be disappointed it doesn’t sound like a Peluso 🤪 I say M50 then KM84. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 31, 2022 9:22:49 GMT -6
I dunno about the M50 market ericn . They have the 150 already which is OK. Then, the fact that there are no more new scoring stages being built, and most of them already have M50's that want/need them. That makes the need incredibly smaller than a 67/47/84/etc. I have a scoring engineer friend who kept 11 M50's up and running over the years (expensive!!!), and he always saw them as his "retirement" policy. Upon retiring and offering them at a fair price, they did not sell nearly as quickly as he had hoped. I think the 49 is a much better offering for sennheiser. And the 84 even more so. As much as I'd love a pair or 3 M50's, I really don't have any legitimate use for them, and would certainly not pay what Neumann would as no matter how great they were. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Oct 31, 2022 9:28:47 GMT -6
I dunno about the M50 market ericn . They have the 150 already which is OK. Then, the fact that there are no more new scoring stages being built, and most of them already have M50's that want/need them. That makes the need incredibly smaller than a 67/47/84/etc. I have a scoring engineer friend who kept 11 M50's up and running over the years (expensive!!!), and he always saw them as his "retirement" policy. Upon retiring and offering them at a fair price, they did not sell nearly as quickly as he had hoped. I think the 49 is a much better offering for sennheiser. And the 84 even more so. As much as I'd love a pair or 3 M50's, I really don't have any legitimate use for them, and would certainly not pay what Neumann would as no matter how great they were. Yeah, but 95% of the mic is the M49. Plus someone could cash out their vintage mics and have an inventory of new mics at probably 1/2 the cost and a $10 tube! Who knows what Neumann will do next my hope is still the 84! |
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Post by Ward on Oct 31, 2022 9:51:58 GMT -6
I dunno about the M50 market ericn . They have the 150 already which is OK. Then, the fact that there are no more new scoring stages being built, and most of them already have M50's that want/need them. That makes the need incredibly smaller than a 67/47/84/etc. I have a scoring engineer friend who kept 11 M50's up and running over the years (expensive!!!), and he always saw them as his "retirement" policy. Upon retiring and offering them at a fair price, they did not sell nearly as quickly as he had hoped. I think the 49 is a much better offering for sennheiser. And the 84 even more so. As much as I'd love a pair or 3 M50's, I really don't have any legitimate use for them, and would certainly not pay what Neumann would as no matter how great they were. Fair point |
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Post by Ward on Oct 31, 2022 9:52:56 GMT -6
I dunno about the M50 market ericn . They have the 150 already which is OK. Then, the fact that there are no more new scoring stages being built, and most of them already have M50's that want/need them. That makes the need incredibly smaller than a 67/47/84/etc. I have a scoring engineer friend who kept 11 M50's up and running over the years (expensive!!!), and he always saw them as his "retirement" policy. Upon retiring and offering them at a fair price, they did not sell nearly as quickly as he had hoped. I think the 49 is a much better offering for sennheiser. And the 84 even more so. As much as I'd love a pair or 3 M50's, I really don't have any legitimate use for them, and would certainly not pay what Neumann would as no matter how great they were. Yeah, but 95% of the mic is the M49. Plus someone could cash out their vintage mics and have an inventory of new mics at probably 1/2 the cost and a $10 tube! Who knows what Neumann will do next my hope is still the 84! Also a fair point. P.S. Everyone knows the 84 reissue is coming.  Sooner than later. I'd say $1999 street and they'll sell like hotcakes. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 31, 2022 10:27:56 GMT -6
I dunno about the M50 market ericn . They have the 150 already which is OK. Then, the fact that there are no more new scoring stages being built, and most of them already have M50's that want/need them. That makes the need incredibly smaller than a 67/47/84/etc. I have a scoring engineer friend who kept 11 M50's up and running over the years (expensive!!!), and he always saw them as his "retirement" policy. Upon retiring and offering them at a fair price, they did not sell nearly as quickly as he had hoped. I think the 49 is a much better offering for sennheiser. And the 84 even more so. As much as I'd love a pair or 3 M50's, I really don't have any legitimate use for them, and would certainly not pay what Neumann would as no matter how great they were. Yeah, but 95% of the mic is the M49. Plus someone could cash out their vintage mics and have an inventory of new mics at probably 1/2 the cost and a $10 tube! Who knows what Neumann will do next my hope is still the 84! How many people even know what an M50 is and what it's used for? |
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Post by drbill on Oct 31, 2022 10:30:05 GMT -6
Yeah, but 95% of the mic is the M49. Plus someone could cash out their vintage mics and have an inventory of new mics at probably 1/2 the cost and a $10 tube! Who knows what Neumann will do next my hope is still the 84! Also a fair point. P.S. Everyone knows the 84 reissue is coming. Sooner than later. I'd say $1999 street and they'll sell like hotcakes. A year or two ago and I'd have highly concurred. But I can feel the market (and world economies) shifting. I think you're going to see a lot of high priced gear sitting on the shelves very soon... Hope I'm wrong. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 31, 2022 10:32:14 GMT -6
Yeah, but 95% of the mic is the M49. Plus someone could cash out their vintage mics and have an inventory of new mics at probably 1/2 the cost and a $10 tube! Who knows what Neumann will do next my hope is still the 84! How many people even know what an M50 is and what it's used for? ironically many now because there was a an article in one of the big papers about how they were worth over $20k. While probably the wrong mic for most of the more money than brains crowd, it is perfect to put in a trophy case. You would never need a new Ac701. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 31, 2022 10:38:07 GMT -6
Also a fair point. P.S. Everyone knows the 84 reissue is coming. Sooner than later. I'd say $1999 street and they'll sell like hotcakes. A year or two ago and I'd have highly concurred. But I can feel the market (and world economies) shifting. I think you're going to see a lot of high priced gear sitting on the shelves very soon... Hope I'm wrong. I think a lot of what you will see sitting on shelves more than anything is what you are starting to see used, low - mid priced clones (Warm), New small products aimed at cashing in on brand recognition (SSL 6) lots of small interfaces from big names (UAD SSL Focusrite). |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 31, 2022 11:13:21 GMT -6
IMHO when Paul G posts about the return of the 47... I take that very seriously. Being Halloween, I might as well admit believing in ghosts too. Like Dickens and Shakespeare!  Chris P.S. At work. Will re-read earlier posts after. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 31, 2022 11:19:05 GMT -6
Still loving my consecutive pair. So deep and chocolatey. Just before I got then I bought some Fleas in a deal and switched the capsules for K49’s. I thought they sounded and felt great but the M49V has some magic in the circuit that softened and LP the tone into magic. The Flea were close but were sharper which was a huge paradigm shift from the F7 which were muddy. I’ve had BSA m49’s and Horch’s for a few years and they are brighter than the others too depending on the tube etc. but the M49V’s just need switching on and they sound great. Neumann are on a roll. I just hope they nail the U47 now as they have some magicians up in there. Hey Paul, would you have any clips comparing the M49V and FleA 49? |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 31, 2022 13:52:42 GMT -6
TLM 103 for the (nice) sounding mic, for the price. (I still would prefer the MG M930 as just one example) 49's for the win! Chris P.S. He sounds a lot like Barry Gibb. TLM103 is like the SM58 everybody knows it as a reference point and they are consistent as hell |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 31, 2022 13:53:40 GMT -6
I think Ward would especially agree with that last sentence! Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 31, 2022 13:59:44 GMT -6
Ward [/quote]How much you wanna speculate that when Sennheiser bought Neumann Berlin, a treasure trove of goodies were found like a crate of unused OG VF14m metal tubes? Maybe 100?
Could be . . . that is a real story that has been passed around for a long time. I don't believe it's fact, but would not surprise me if it happened to be the case.[/quote]
Posts like this make me feel a little guilty, on having that mint NOS VF-14 in my Vintage MXL V69.
Chris
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 31, 2022 14:18:27 GMT -6
I think Ward would especially agree with that last sentence! Chris I hate to admit it but I always tried to put a SM58 up for any mic demo, everyone knew what it should sound like and just made things Quicker. The SM7 wouldn’t work because a lot of people wouldn’t get close enough and the switches would make it slow. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Oct 31, 2022 14:33:25 GMT -6
How much you wanna speculate that when Sennheiser bought Neumann Berlin, a treasure trove of goodies were found like a crate of unused OG VF14m metal tubes? Maybe 100? Could be . . . that is a real story that has been passed around for a long time. I don't believe it's fact, but would not surprise me if it happened to be the case. If they did, I’m sure the service guys fought tooth and nail for them to support all the old customers. Every clog years the rumor that the guys from Sennheiser toured the Porsche facility where they would build you any Porsche ever made and wanted to do something similar would surface. Before you ever see a U47v I would expect a M50v because I’m sure after the M49v every classical guy and scoring stage was looking at theirs and calling there contact and asking “ when”. Plus nobody would buy 1 they would all be at least a pair. The thing with the 47 is the clone market is so crowded, the 47fet really reignited the FET and there are just a couple of 49 clones. Plus with the 47 you have a significant number of people who’s idea of what a 47 is. Is completely based on clones. Even if you mail it a bunch of guys are going to be disappointed it doesn’t sound like a Peluso 🤪 I say M50 then KM84. as a big classical engineer who has 2 M49v on order. No thanks. I have a LOT of better options IMO than an M50 now. And I have m150s, 5 actually, never use them. DPAs and Schoeps are the go to's now. To much of a pain to fly tube mics. The U67s and M49s will just be fore highlight spot mics mostly. KM84 is the only other reissue that anyone wants to see at this point IMO. Considering they still make the capsules, I don't know why that wasn't the first reissue. Scoring guys, eh maybe. But probably not for all the reasons Bill listed. |
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Post by recordingengineer on Oct 31, 2022 15:31:34 GMT -6
I’m just thinking / hoping a pair of M50-type mics will be good room mics in the studio for overdubs on piano, acoustic guitar, the occasional strings, and possibly drums. I’ll find out soon enough, thanks to Beesneez and Babaric Amplification!
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Post by spindrift on Oct 31, 2022 17:29:09 GMT -6
Posts like this make me feel a little guilty, on having that mint NOS VF-14 in my Vintage MXL V69. Chris I remember that impressive MXL mod project Chris. I still think it was overkill that you installed 2 NOS AC701K to “balance” the VF-14M. It was the only way to balance out the HF response of the $3 chinese capsule so I get it. |
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olionajudah
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Post by olionajudah on Oct 31, 2022 17:37:30 GMT -6
If they did, I’m sure the service guys fought tooth and nail for them to support all the old customers. Every clog years the rumor that the guys from Sennheiser toured the Porsche facility where they would build you any Porsche ever made and wanted to do something similar would surface. Before you ever see a U47v I would expect a M50v because I’m sure after the M49v every classical guy and scoring stage was looking at theirs and calling there contact and asking “ when”. Plus nobody would buy 1 they would all be at least a pair. The thing with the 47 is the clone market is so crowded, the 47fet really reignited the FET and there are just a couple of 49 clones. Plus with the 47 you have a significant number of people who’s idea of what a 47 is. Is completely based on clones. Even if you mail it a bunch of guys are going to be disappointed it doesn’t sound like a Peluso 🤪 I say M50 then KM84. as a big classical engineer who has 2 M49v on order. No thanks. I have a LOT of better options IMO than an M50 now. And I have m150s, 5 actually, never use them. DPAs and Schoeps are the go to's now. To much of a pain to fly tube mics. The U67s and M49s will just be fore highlight spot mics mostly. KM84 is the only other reissue that anyone wants to see at this point IMO. Considering they still make the capsules, I don't know why that wasn't the first reissue. Scoring guys, eh maybe. But probably not for all the reasons Bill listed. Yeah, I don't think the m50 has anywhere near the market appeal of a u47, and IIRC the m50 capsule is nearly as challenging to re-manufacture as a vf14m. I do harbor the suspicion that they are working on a 47, though who knows if that tube can ever be replaced or rebuilt without compromising the sound. Time may tell I suppose, but I doubt Neumann would reissue a 47 that wasn't close enough to be interchangeable. Not long ago, the 49 seemed impossible.. I have to agree about the km84. I'm honestly puzzled as to how that wasn't first legacy reissue, never mind the second or third. Presumably the margins are higher on the 49v, but I do think 84s would sell in very large numbers, and like you said, they've never stopped manufacturing the capsules. Either way, for now I'd just be happy with an ETA for my 49v. |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 31, 2022 19:45:15 GMT -6
Posts like this make me feel a little guilty, on having that mint NOS VF-14 in my Vintage MXL V69. Chris I remember that impressive MXL mod project Chris. I still think it was overkill that you installed 2 NOS AC701K to “balance” the VF-14M. It was the only way to balance out the HF response of the $3 chinese capsule so I get it. Thanks! Sadly however, Klaus somehow always seems "too busy" to sprinkle his magic fairy dust on it... For it to rightfully ascend into complete sonic Nirvana. Lest I digress. Chris |
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Post by Chad on Oct 31, 2022 21:10:15 GMT -6
I remember that impressive MXL mod project Chris. I still think it was overkill that you installed 2 NOS AC701K to “balance” the VF-14M. It was the only way to balance out the HF response of the $3 chinese capsule so I get it. Thanks! Sadly however, Klaus somehow always seems "too busy" to sprinkle his magic fairy dust on it... For it to rightfully ascend into complete sonic Nirvana. Lest I digress. Chris 😂😂 Keith and Chris — You are cracking me up tonight!! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 31, 2022 21:24:44 GMT -6
I remember that impressive MXL mod project Chris. I still think it was overkill that you installed 2 NOS AC701K to “balance” the VF-14M. It was the only way to balance out the HF response of the $3 chinese capsule so I get it. Thanks! Sadly however, Klaus somehow always seems "too busy" to sprinkle his magic fairy dust on it... For it to rightfully ascend into complete sonic Nirvana. Lest I digress. Chris I keep telling you to upgrade all the internal wiring to that stuff made from the hair of virgins in that special 666 winding, I know you like the 2112 but 666 is the shit. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Nov 1, 2022 0:37:06 GMT -6
Still loving my consecutive pair. So deep and chocolatey. Just before I got then I bought some Fleas in a deal and switched the capsules for K49’s. I thought they sounded and felt great but the M49V has some magic in the circuit that softened and LP the tone into magic. The Flea were close but were sharper which was a huge paradigm shift from the F7 which were muddy. I’ve had BSA m49’s and Horch’s for a few years and they are brighter than the others too depending on the tube etc. but the M49V’s just need switching on and they sound great. Neumann are on a roll. I just hope they nail the U47 now as they have some magicians up in there. Hey Paul, would you have any clips comparing the M49V and FleA 49? Not yet, I’ll see if I can get my son to sing something though. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Nov 1, 2022 0:47:46 GMT -6
Is there any truth to the rumor I just started that the quiet word on the street is a possible U47V or U48V in 2026? Kidding. I've actually heard this being discussed but doubt it's anything more than just speculation at this point! Obviously the big hurdle is the VF14 tube. Neumann was able to take a note from FleA's playbook for the M49V and use the 6S6B-V tube, but there really is no replacement for VF14. They could go with the Russian made 6SJ7 which is an equivalent to the EF14 (not VF14). You find those in the Pearlman TM-47 and Peluso 2247SE. That wouldn't be plug and play with the old VF14 tubes though. They could follow Telefunken's route and use a casing for a glass tube with the same specs at the VF14. Who knows? Whatever they do, they'd better make sure it's darn close sonically. There are too many really good replicas to screw it up. The tube I love most is the Jan 5654 5*. That is a great little tube cheap as chips in the Horch and Soyuz 017. I seem to remember Dave at AA breadboarding it for a 47 sound. Otherwise yes the EF12 is still in large supply I recently bought 30. I think Neumann are late to the game but they have some tricks up their sleeve and would beat the competition at a price. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 1, 2022 4:55:36 GMT -6
Obviously the big hurdle is the VF14 tube. Neumann was able to take a note from FleA's playbook for the M49V and use the 6S6B-V tube, but there really is no replacement for VF14. They could go with the Russian made 6SJ7 which is an equivalent to the EF14 (not VF14). You find those in the Pearlman TM-47 and Peluso 2247SE. That wouldn't be plug and play with the old VF14 tubes though. They could follow Telefunken's route and use a casing for a glass tube with the same specs at the VF14. Who knows? Whatever they do, they'd better make sure it's darn close sonically. There are too many really good replicas to screw it up. The tube I love most is the Jan 5654 5*. That is a great little tube cheap as chips in the Horch and Soyuz 017. I seem to remember Dave at AA breadboarding it for a 47 sound. Otherwise yes the EF12 is still in large supply I recently bought 30. I think Neumann are late to the game but they have some tricks up their sleeve and would beat the competition at a price. Yeah, Dave is using the 5654 in both his CM47LE and CM49LE. |
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