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Post by ab101 on Aug 7, 2022 10:19:36 GMT -6
I think the only Neumann reissue that would raise my eyebrows would be a KM-84. -09 You know I've long wondered why they haven't done this already. Seem to me like the easiest of all the mics to reissue, considering they never stopped making the kk84s (and 83s as far as I'm aware). Last I checked you can still order a new pair today. B&H have a listing for the 84s. They had the 83s list as well pre-covid, though I haven't seen them recently. IIRC they started limiting some part sales to authorized service shops to prevent poaching or building tribute mics with real parts, but you can still get them. Given the price 84s are fetching today, this would not surprise me in the least, though I'd have thought it an easier ask than the 49. Maybe they don't want to be in direct competition with themselves ? (184) .. but if they do reissue an 84, no reason not to do KM86s as well! Neumann did have a web forum. I remember it and Neumann was responsive on the forum. Apparently it got hacked or had some serious problems. I am not sure if the forum is back. What a shame as it would solve a lot of problems. Perhaps there is still a way to get responses on their website. It would be interesting to find out whether a reissue 84 is in the works or if there is some serious obstacle. |
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Post by Chad on Aug 7, 2022 10:47:37 GMT -6
You know I've long wondered why they haven't done this already. Seem to me like the easiest of all the mics to reissue, considering they never stopped making the kk84s (and 83s as far as I'm aware). Last I checked you can still order a new pair today. B&H have a listing for the 84s. They had the 83s list as well pre-covid, though I haven't seen them recently. IIRC they started limiting some part sales to authorized service shops to prevent poaching or building tribute mics with real parts, but you can still get them. Given the price 84s are fetching today, this would not surprise me in the least, though I'd have thought it an easier ask than the 49. Maybe they don't want to be in direct competition with themselves ? (184) .. but if they do reissue an 84, no reason not to do KM86s as well! Neumann did have a web forum. I remember it and Neumann was responsive on the forum. Apparently it got hacked or had some serious problems. I am not sure if the forum is back. What a shame as it would solve a lot of problems. Perhaps there is still a way to get responses on their website. It would be interesting to find out whether a reissue 84 is in the works or if there is some serious obstacle. An archived version: web.archive.org/web/20160322054045/http://www.neumann.com/forums/list.php?lang=en&site=neumann&bn=neumann_mictec |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 7, 2022 12:33:06 GMT -6
Why the TLM 49/M49V line up hath paved the way!
(not to mention TLM67/U67 etc.)
Chris
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Post by chessparov on Aug 7, 2022 12:38:04 GMT -6
Find a good thousand of any tube, as a manufacturer. Go on in 2022, dare ya. OK, find 100. Make it a desirable tube, for a vintage piece. Dare ya. Keep a fat wallet on hand and plan to buy twice as many as you think you need. Let’s see what you got. damn I just dropped my c-hair splitters down a drain…. Not tubes but there is a story in the audiophile world about a speaker builder who bought a huge amount of certain woofer that had about a 25% reject rate and would re sell the ones that didn’t meet his specs. They never tracked serial # of their rejects, so. The purchasing guy kept finding “deals “ on quantities of their favorite driver, but the reject rate was about 99%. Took a couple of these bulk purchases to figure out they were buying their own rejects from third parties. Fortune Cookie say... "He who buys stray Woofers" "May not be Golden Retriever" 99% of 25%? Or 25% of 99%? Either way, what happened to the other half? Chris |
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Post by christophert on Aug 7, 2022 15:57:42 GMT -6
Not according to Klaus - capsules vary.
I had my 67 capsule tended to. No unicorns at all. Who has a the good imagination here?
Chill.
Yeah, I’ve read all that. They DO pay attention to the QC! They make them to the standard they think is acceptable. The QC is surely tighter than it was 60 years ago How many old duds have long since gone to the landfill? Many! We don’t talk about those! They may pay more attention to it as the custom shop develops, they may do it now where they didn’t 5 years ago. This is certainly the most ‘custom shop’ they’ve done. I was just reading about U47’s with ck12’s in them, done by Euro broadcasting. Kinda better in some ways was the modern opinion, certainly not worse. Interesting. As Klaus points out - some U67's capsules are bass starved. It's a gamble.
Not my idea of QC at all. (Q for quality)
Maybe good enough for you?
If I bought a 3rd Heiserman 47T, I bet the capsule would be absolutely close enough to pair up with one of my existing pair. Tubes are a different story.
I expect perfect QC from a near $10k microphone. Lets see if Neumann deliver - I hope they do 
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Post by ericn on Aug 7, 2022 16:11:07 GMT -6
Yeah, I’ve read all that. They DO pay attention to the QC! They make them to the standard they think is acceptable. The QC is surely tighter than it was 60 years ago How many old duds have long since gone to the landfill? Many! We don’t talk about those! They may pay more attention to it as the custom shop develops, they may do it now where they didn’t 5 years ago. This is certainly the most ‘custom shop’ they’ve done. I was just reading about U47’s with ck12’s in them, done by Euro broadcasting. Kinda better in some ways was the modern opinion, certainly not worse. Interesting. As Klaus points out - some U67's capsules are bass starved. It's a gamble.
Not my idea of QC at all. (Q for quality)
Maybe good enough for you?
If I bought a 3rd Heiserman 47T, I bet the capsule would be absolutely close enough to pair up with one of my existing pair. Tubes are a different story.
I expect perfect QC from a near $10k microphone. Lets see if Neumann deliver - I hope they do
OK, the more I live in the world of speakers, I learn that in the audio world there are QC standards, and there are QC standards. If you look at Neumann as a OEM ( they are not) and Klaus as high end manufacturer this is pretty typical. Do I mind that Klaus has a higher standard than Neumann, no because Klaus’s entire buisness model is repair and upgrade. Think about it for a second if Neumann met Klaus’s standard would we need Klaus? We also live in a golden age of capsule manufacturers, when before have we had so many options for a K67 / K87. I’m sure some of this has to deal with Neumann trying to build these as efficiently as possible, but the fact is Neumann is still the standard for these capsules. |
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Post by ab101 on Aug 7, 2022 17:31:51 GMT -6
Does someone have a contact with Neumann that can respond to this U67 reissue bass starved issue (at least on some mic) that is discussed here?
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Post by mattcollen on Aug 7, 2022 19:27:21 GMT -6
Yeah, I’ve read all that. They DO pay attention to the QC! They make them to the standard they think is acceptable. The QC is surely tighter than it was 60 years ago How many old duds have long since gone to the landfill? Many! We don’t talk about those! They may pay more attention to it as the custom shop develops, they may do it now where they didn’t 5 years ago. This is certainly the most ‘custom shop’ they’ve done. I was just reading about U47’s with ck12’s in them, done by Euro broadcasting. Kinda better in some ways was the modern opinion, certainly not worse. Interesting. As Klaus points out - some U67's capsules are bass starved. It's a gamble.
Not my idea of QC at all. (Q for quality)
Maybe good enough for you?
If I bought a 3rd Heiserman 47T, I bet the capsule would be absolutely close enough to pair up with one of my existing pair. Tubes are a different story.
I expect perfect QC from a near $10k microphone. Lets see if Neumann deliver - I hope they do
Klaus claims that some are bass starved to his ears (tensioning issue), but that Neumann is still making capsules that are in a different league than other capsule manufacturers. Neumann considers them to be fine and within their tensioning specs. |
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Post by mattcollen on Aug 7, 2022 19:29:27 GMT -6
Does someone have a contact with Neumann that can respond to this U67 reissue bass starved issue (at least on some mic) that is discussed here? A sales rep told me that the tensioning issue has been resolved, but I have not heard that directly from Neumann. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 20:05:56 GMT -6
Interesting. As Klaus points out - some U67's capsules are bass starved. It's a gamble.
I expect perfect QC from a near $10k microphone. Lets see if Neumann deliver - I hope they do This thread is getting silly..
You've heard of a device called an EQ right? Also one persons "bass starved" is anothers spot on. There's no such thing as a perfect mic, just a lot of preferences dressed up and presented like facts (a common trait nowadays). IME and IMO Neumann's are never a gamble, it's one of the reasons they've remained in business over the years and you may or may not like the sound of their microphones but quality hasn't got anything to do with it.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 7, 2022 20:23:15 GMT -6
I find it a little amusing that a company is held hostage by the ears of one guy who wasn’t there when a lot of this stuff was originally made, and as far as I can tell based on his internet posts, uses his ears over test equipment the majority of the time. Guess which is more error prone?
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Post by mattcollen on Aug 7, 2022 20:24:27 GMT -6
Interesting. As Klaus points out - some U67's capsules are bass starved. It's a gamble.
I expect perfect QC from a near $10k microphone. Lets see if Neumann deliver - I hope they do This thread is getting silly..
You've heard of a device called an EQ right? Also one persons "bass starved" is anothers spot on. There's no such thing as a perfect mic, just a lot of preferences dressed up and presented like facts (a common trait nowadays). IME and IMO Neumann's are never a gamble, it's one of the reasons they've remained in business over the years and you may or may not like the sound of their microphones but quality hasn't got anything to do with it.
Agreed. |
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Post by ericn on Aug 7, 2022 20:39:17 GMT -6
I find it a little amusing that a company is held hostage by the ears of one guy who wasn’t there when a lot of this stuff was originally made, and as far as I can tell based on his internet posts, uses his ears over test equipment the majority of the time. Guess which is more error prone? Held hostage on the internet, in studios writhe world these mics are recording music. |
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Post by seawell on Aug 7, 2022 22:14:31 GMT -6
If you think this thread is fun, just wait until they bring back the U47! 🤣
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2022 5:45:30 GMT -6
If you think this thread is fun, just wait until they bring back the U47! 🤣 I’m shocked nobody has started one at GS based on a rumor! |
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Post by Omicron9 on Aug 8, 2022 7:49:09 GMT -6
I think the only Neumann reissue that would raise my eyebrows would be a KM-84. -09 You know I've long wondered why they haven't done this already. Seem to me like the easiest of all the mics to reissue, considering they never stopped making the kk84s (and 83s as far as I'm aware). Last I checked you can still order a new pair today. B&H have a listing for the 84s. They had the 83s list as well pre-covid, though I haven't seen them recently. IIRC they started limiting some part sales to authorized service shops to prevent poaching or building tribute mics with real parts, but you can still get them. Given the price 84s are fetching today, this would not surprise me in the least, though I'd have thought it an easier ask than the 49. Maybe they don't want to be in direct competition with themselves ? (184) .. but if they do reissue an 84, no reason not to do KM86s as well! Of course if they did reissue the KM-84, given their reissue pricing structure it would likely be.... what.... $5,999.00? Another option for Neumann would be to introduce something called the KM-284 and discontinue the KM-184. As soon as it was no longer available, everyone would swear that the 184 was one of the best mics since ever and used 184 prices would skyrocket. No one would like the 284. -09 |
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Post by ji43 on Aug 8, 2022 7:49:31 GMT -6
I have a U67 RI with the capsule tuned by Klaus, S2 snipped and a NOS Tele, and it's an amazing mic!
I am now considering picking up a new matched pair (consecutive serial numbers) of U67 RIs for some stereo applications...in that case, I am hoping the tension QC is no longer a thing...as far as NOS tubes in a matched pair, thinking it may be better to stick with the stock tubes as I assume they will have been selected to be matched at the factory. Thoughts on this?
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2022 8:46:35 GMT -6
I have a U67 RI with the capsule tuned by Klaus, S2 snipped and a NOS Tele, and it's an amazing mic! I am now considering picking up a new matched pair (consecutive serial numbers) of U67 RIs for some stereo applications...in that case, I am hoping the tension QC is no longer a thing...as far as NOS tubes in a matched pair, thinking it may be better to stick with the stock tubes as I assume they will have been selected to be matched at the factory. Thoughts on this? This one would probably be best answered by Bowie but the thing with “ matched” is that it probably doesn’t cover what you think it does. If I remember correctly Neumann factory matched is simply on axis freq response +- 1.5 dB. If you want tubes that really match up you are going to be going to somebody like Bowie, the advantage, our Christian can also help select tubes that will let you color that mic a bit to taste. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 8, 2022 9:52:39 GMT -6
If you think this thread is fun, just wait until they bring back the U47! 🤣 Don't know why they are waiting - there are TONS of tubes that sound identical to the VF14. Should be easy to source several thousand of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2022 10:25:25 GMT -6
If you think this thread is fun, just wait until they bring back the U47! 🤣 Don't know why they are waiting - there are TONS of tubes that sound identical to the VF14. Should be easy to source several thousand of them. Probably trying to find a finance underwriter with competitive rates to shift them going by the current rate of prices. I wouldn't be totally shocked if we saw Neumann Financial Services on the horizon, it'll become akin to selling cars.
Would you like to add Neumann clear coat ultimate protection for $500.00? Uber shockmount pro for $1K? How's about GAP insurance?
I'll stop, I'm probably giving them ideas.
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2022 10:34:24 GMT -6
Don't know why they are waiting - there are TONS of tubes that sound identical to the VF14. Should be easy to source several thousand of them. Probably trying to find a finance underwriter with competitive rates to shift them going by the current rate of prices. I wouldn't be totally shocked if we saw Neumann Financial Services on the horizon, it'll become akin to selling cars.
Would you like to add Neumann clear coat ultimate protection for $500.00? Uber shockmount pro for $1K? How's about GAP insurance?
I'll stop, I'm probably giving them ideas.
Nah they don’t have to, find me a Neumann dealer without a “house brand “ credit card program. Plus let me tell you pro audio / MI has the highest credit rejection rate, true story! |
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Post by christopher on Aug 8, 2022 10:38:04 GMT -6
The Serrano has been a great purchase, but it also kind of makes me realize why I think Neumann doesn’t like to mass produce vintage. Carlos says the SA87 is as close as 1:1 as he can do with an early 87, and I believe him. So this is the first time I’ve used a solid state mic that’s “new” like an old mic would be.
If I compare it to a modern $200 mic, it has some things that an average user would not be ok with.
- First, the noise floor and S/N takes experienced skill to gain stage and not have hiss. The noise floor is similar to tube mics. It’s not a transformerless mic with clean and clear gain for days, it has a very specific window where I have to stage it *just* right… the first few hours was a little bit of a worry as I struggled to find that sweet spot. But 2 hours in, I had it dialed and working fine, nice signal above the hiss.
- The other thing is the tension (I think). The capsule on the Serrano I assume is under less tension than other modern mics. My assumption is based on when I close the door, the air pressure change is enough to cause the capsule to pop greatly. Just like an old mic capsule. Again, care and skill on my part as an engineer is required to work so that I don’t have that issue in the recording.
This makes me think, ok, maybe Neumann now likes to make the capsules tighter so less people are contacting them claiming their capsule is blown out.
And vintage transistor/transformer in a KM84 or u87 is going to make it harder for the engineer to gain stage, they’d be getting complaints their mic is broken
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Post by EmRR on Aug 8, 2022 11:28:01 GMT -6
I don't get it. Tons of early and ancient equipment here, no noise sweet spots to chase. Rarely a question, and I do a lot of delicate acoustic music. My headphone path has 10x the hiss of even my 1932 condenser mic.
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Post by christopher on Aug 8, 2022 11:32:00 GMT -6
Maybe my mic is broken 😂… that’s ok I’m not parting with it
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2022 11:52:02 GMT -6
I don't get it. Tons of early and ancient equipment here, no noise sweet spots to chase. Rarely a question, and I do a lot of delicate acoustic music. My headphone path has 10x the hiss of even my 1932 condenser mic. Yeah but you know how to gain stage, the average guy simply asks “ just tell me what knob to turn up and down.” I know it sounds way over simplified but in my gear pimp days that was at least 2 calls a day. |
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