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Post by drbill on Aug 6, 2022 11:44:20 GMT -6
Surprisingly most of the orders request one of the BTO options so this will slow things up a little bit. If ordered standard one will see it sooner. Curious what others think of this. Klaus says they can be easily toggled. It'd trust this over the crazy marketing dodah that Neumann has decided to hit us with on this mic. I'd trust him. He does mention turning off the mic though.  if that's going to void my warranty - then don't put switches on the mic. This is just...ugh......nevermind. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 6, 2022 11:51:41 GMT -6
This whole release is just silly and unprofessional IMO, and not up to Neumann's standards. I'm guessing that there must be a new marketing department. . If they are only building 3 a month. Or 25 a year. Or however many they are building - every story is different - it's not so hard to switch a couple of switches. Even if you have to pull the box, open it, open the mic, switch the switch, put the mic back together, plug it in to make sure it's working, put it back in the box, and label it for shipment to bob.....how much time can that take? An hour? This "slowing things down" story is ridiculous IMO. This is a very high level, custom microphone. If they have to break out a soldering iron, then yeah, I get it. But switches? Come on..... And when are we going to know the tube mystery? They can't disguise it much longer. The mic will be in users hands pretty soon. The only up-side that I can think of is for Neumann to sell as many mics as they can before the public finds out what the tube is.... Dumb. |
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olionajudah
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just learning .. one mistake at a time
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Post by olionajudah on Aug 6, 2022 12:42:22 GMT -6
This whole release is just silly and unprofessional IMO, and not up to Neumann's standards...... And when are we going to know the tube mystery? They can't disguise it much longer. The mic will be in users hands pretty soon. The only up-side that I can think of is for Neumann to sell as many mics as they can before the public finds out what the tube is.... Dumb. As you've said, this seems like the biggest stumble. The mic is officially released. It seems like a matter of weeks or months before someone peeks inside theirs and reports on the tube. Although.. I suppose they could have 'anonymized' the tube by removing labels or whatever, but I'd guess that wouldn't prevent a tube-wise tech from figuring it out... I believe Chandler removes all labelling from the tube in their Redd mic, and ships replacements in unlabelled boxes. I'm honestly not sure anyone has bothered to figure out what's in there. .. of course an 8k m49 reissue with an 'updated' tube (eg: NOT an AC701) is going to attract more scrutiny than the Redd. I'm curious to see where this part of the story will end up.. ..but honestly, I'm still far more interested to hear/use the mic itself. Time will tell! |
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Post by ab101 on Aug 6, 2022 12:49:10 GMT -6
I suspect something more about this tube. How many of these "best" tubes are there? Is it something someone can easily buy and put in their ac701-mics? Is someone hanging on to a bunch of NOS AC701 tubes who is going to find their stash of tubes drop significantly in value once the "best" tube is publicly announced? Now that Neumann has stated that it is the best tube they found, I would think that at least some people would try to buy quantities of this particular tube. Is Neumann concerned that Flea will buy a bunch of those tubes and sell the Flea 49 for less money than Neumann? This is all speculation. However, when facts are hidden, speculation is a likely result.
I think people in the "high end" market have an aversion to these kinds of games. And I predict over time, people will eventually go to products for their substance than their name. The future belongs to the "audioscapes" of the world - "whole foods nutrition without the high prices."
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Post by christopher on Aug 6, 2022 12:59:27 GMT -6
The tube is very likely a common miniature tube that is plentiful and extremely cheap.. like $3.. because why wouldn’t they?
We know AC701, VF14, EF86, 6072 all have a sound that is unique. Any other tube won’t be one, so just go with something that is cheap imo, engineer it to make it sound good. It’s just glass and some metal insides.. they should be able to find something, right?
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Post by christopher on Aug 6, 2022 13:05:28 GMT -6
This whole release is just silly and unprofessional IMO, and not up to Neumann's standards. I'm guessing that there must be a new marketing department. . If they are only building 3 a month. Or 25 a year. Or however many they are building - every story is different - it's not so hard to switch a couple of switches. Even if you have to pull the box, open it, open the mic, switch the switch, put the mic back together, plug it in to make sure it's working, put it back in the box, and label it for shipment to bob.....how much time can that take? An hour? This "slowing things down" story is ridiculous IMO. This is a very high level, custom microphone. If they have to break out a soldering iron, then yeah, I get it. But switches? Come on..... And when are we going to know the tube mystery? They can't disguise it much longer. The mic will be in users hands pretty soon. The only up-side that I can think of is for Neumann to sell as many mics as they can before the public finds out what the tube is.... Dumb. All of business is doing this right now, inflation through delay increases margins. I just went grocery shopping, how depressing |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2022 13:39:14 GMT -6
This whole release is just silly and unprofessional IMO, and not up to Neumann's standards. I'm guessing that there must be a new marketing department. . If they are only building 3 a month. Or 25 a year. Or however many they are building - every story is different - it's not so hard to switch a couple of switches. Even if you have to pull the box, open it, open the mic, switch the switch, put the mic back together, plug it in to make sure it's working, put it back in the box, and label it for shipment to bob.....how much time can that take? An hour? This "slowing things down" story is ridiculous IMO. This is a very high level, custom microphone. If they have to break out a soldering iron, then yeah, I get it. But switches? Come on..... And when are we going to know the tube mystery? They can't disguise it much longer. The mic will be in users hands pretty soon. The only up-side that I can think of is for Neumann to sell as many mics as they can before the public finds out what the tube is.... Dumb. All of business is doing this right now, inflation through delay increases margins. I just went grocery shopping, how depressing No it doesn’t, it cuts margins, your cost for parts goes up and here is the big part, every delay in shipping means your closer to your supply bills need to be paid. The trick is to turn over the goods as fast as you can so you are operating on free money, the credit your suppliers are giving you. Plus the cost of your money goes up because your dealers are trying to do the same thing on your dime. If you need to get a loan to get you by the interest cuts your margin. Now add in the fact that you have been talking the hit on some of the price increases from your suppliers because you can’t raise prices every time your costs increase, first because you might be changing prices every other day, second because your dealers are not going to call every time someone wants a quote. |
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Post by christopher on Aug 6, 2022 14:13:58 GMT -6
thumbs way up, makes too much sense to look at the money being lost vs the short sighted per item margin. I hope Neumann isn’t being silly. Could be parts delays of some sort.. parts that they planned on one price and now are getting quoted new prices and don’t want to play along. Seems to be going around
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Post by Hudsonic on Aug 6, 2022 15:17:59 GMT -6
No big deal because I am not dismissing the microphone here. I do not seek to have my opinion taken on board either. I only mentioned that I declined to get in line for it when it was offered to me. Without the ac701, however, the microphone appears to me to be a fetish item. Well, this is quite an endorsement: “The biggest pleasant surprise: noise floor and most relevant, timbre of the new tube Neumann selected for the reissue cannot be distinguished from that of the AC701, even under the most critical listening conditions.”
Klaus Heyne
From the very bottom of this page: m49v.neumann.com/Outside of Neumann’s engineers, no other independent mic tech has reviewed or examined the tube (at least publicly acknowledged). I’ll take Klaus’s endorsement over Hudsonic’s dismissals, since Hudsonic hasn’t actually used the mic or examined it according to his own posts (this may have changed in the last couple of days). Everyone is entitled to his/her/their opinions, but some people actually have direct experience with the new mic. So, I’ll give more credence to those people until I get my hands on one. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2022 15:28:53 GMT -6
No big deal because I am not dismissing the microphone here. I do not seek to have my opinion taken on board either. I only mentioned that I declined to get in line for it when it was offered to me. Without the ac701, however, the microphone appears to me to be a fetish item. Outside of Neumann’s engineers, no other independent mic tech has reviewed or examined the tube (at least publicly acknowledged). I’ll take Klaus’s endorsement over Hudsonic’s dismissals, since Hudsonic hasn’t actually used the mic or examined it according to his own posts (this may have changed in the last couple of days). Everyone is entitled to his/her/their opinions, but some people actually have direct experience with the new mic. So, I’ll give more credence to those people until I get my hands on one. It’s the internet, even if you declared people can breath water, somebody is going to take it as gospel! |
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Post by spindrift on Aug 6, 2022 16:42:33 GMT -6
In their defense, if they found a tube which worked VERY well, what obligation are they under to disclose it to you (and all of their competitors)? They are well within their rights to keep the tube a secret, remove the markings, buy all the NOS they can hoard and supply the tubes to M49V customers (and possibly AC701 replacements?) for years to come. They don’t owe you all a thing.
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Post by michaelcleary on Aug 6, 2022 17:18:55 GMT -6
thumbs way up, makes too much sense to look at the money being lost vs the short sighted per item margin. I hope Neumann isn’t being silly. Could be parts delays of some sort.. parts that they planned on one price and now are getting quoted new prices and don’t want to play along. Seems to be going around I have not seen any indication of this so not sure where you got it from. There are no parts delays. First batch has already been built and will be landing late this month/early next. |
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Post by christopher on Aug 6, 2022 17:38:07 GMT -6
Just Wondering why the delays then? Only so many per month for reasons unexplained. To me that says they either don’t want to take out credit, will fund as time goes along with proceeds of delivered product. Or there’s problems. Or manipulation? Not following too closely though
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Post by michaelcleary on Aug 6, 2022 17:42:45 GMT -6
Just Wondering why the delays then? Only so many per month for reasons unexplained. To me that says they either don’t want to take out credit, will fund as time goes along with proceeds of delivered product. Or there’s problems Wha? They are making these by hand and only three people are building them. Nothing mysterious here. Perhaps those same three people are helping to build other mics as well since there is a back log of the most popular models? Do you have any idea how many thousands of mics they build a month? FYI, they are a company that has no debt. m49v.neumann.com/ |
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Post by christopher on Aug 6, 2022 17:44:26 GMT -6
I thought there was no problems
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2022 17:54:11 GMT -6
Just Wondering why the delays then? Only so many per month for reasons unexplained. To me that says they either don’t want to take out credit, will fund as time goes along with proceeds of delivered product. Or there’s problems Wha? They are making these by hand and only three people are building them. Nothing mysterious here. Perhaps those same three people are helping to build other mics as well since there is a back log of the most popular models? Do you have any idea how many thousands of mics they build a month? FYI, they are a company that has no debt. m49v.neumann.com/I think what Michael has been trying to explain is this. The 3 people who build these have been building them for a while in order to supply the whole world. This is so that their is at first enough product to fill some orders and keep them truly falling behind. Everyone does this in almost any industry. It’s a typical product introduction. |
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Post by Chad on Aug 6, 2022 17:57:16 GMT -6
In their defense, if they found a tube which worked VERY well, what obligation are they under to disclose it to you (and all of their competitors)? They are well within their rights to keep the tube a secret, remove the markings, buy all the NOS they can hoard and supply the tubes to M49V customers (and possibly AC701 replacements?) for years to come. They don’t owe you all a thing. I like this take. Such a competitive market (and even before the parts shortage, NOS was limited). Very good point, spindrift!! 👍🏻 |
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Post by drbill on Aug 6, 2022 18:19:14 GMT -6
We need some superhero to go back in time and make sure Neumann scrubs the printing off the AC701k's and VF14 Tubes so that this $#@! doesn't happen again.... Users do NOT need to know. Right? |
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Post by aremos on Aug 6, 2022 18:22:26 GMT -6
Maybe it's the Neumann name & the model name but Chandler has been doing this since day 1 & still we don't know (technically) what tubes are being used inside the REDD (a $5K+ mic). Didn't hear or read too much criticism aimed at them.
I heard the mic, tried it for a week, & called the dealer stating I was keeping it & therefore paid him the full amount. Will be doing the same with the new M49.
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Post by Chad on Aug 6, 2022 19:09:03 GMT -6
I have to say… There is not a bad take throughout this entire thread.
Each time I read another’s passionate post, I find myself nodding in agreement. it is so easy to see where each of you is coming from, and difficult for me to decide where I stand at the moment. LOL!
If we, on the customer side of this microphone reissue, are having this difficult of a time agreeing, I keep wondering what those conversations might have been like at Neumann.
No wonder the rollout has been such a roller coaster ride. 😅
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Post by spindrift on Aug 6, 2022 19:23:09 GMT -6
If I were to own a 49V, I would be perfectly happy sending it to CT for service, including a new tube. If it went out of production or they stopped servicing them, then knowing the tube type and source would be a lot more important to me. Realistically, I doubt the tube will be kept a secret very long as there are so many knowledgeable tube-heads working on the puzzle.
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Post by ab101 on Aug 6, 2022 19:24:14 GMT -6
I have to say… There is not a bad take throughout this entire thread. Each time I read another’s passionate post, I find myself nodding in agreement. it is so easy to see where each of you is coming from, and difficult for me to decide where I stand at the moment. LOL! If we, on the customer side of this microphone reissue, are having this difficult of a time agreeing, I keep wondering what those conversations might have been like at Neumann. No wonder the rollout has been such a roller coaster ride. 😅 Well said. I think part of the nuances that distinguish this mic rollout from perhaps some others, is that it is claiming to be a reissue of a cherished mic that is often known for being great with the AC701 tube. It is known what the tube is in the U67 reissue. And then there are teasers, something like - the best tube they could find. And then they have reference on their website to a statement about the tube being audibly indistinguishable from the AC701. And those that purchase after checking it out, may be in a different legal position than those that pay up front based on certain representations. But I think it is fair and obvious to say that in general there are obligations in contractual relationships and representations may matter in certain circumstances. I do think that the idea of removing identity markings on a tube, which no one is saying that Neumann has or will do, is a bad idea because in various states in the U.S., for instance, there is an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing, and the idea of removing markings on a tube might lead someone to think of bad faith. I doubt Neumann would do such a practice. I just did not want to let that go, that somehow that is a wise decision for a manufacturer to make and they can, and should, consult their own legal people. |
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Post by recordingengineer on Aug 6, 2022 19:33:06 GMT -6
I have a feeling Neumann has agreed for Klaus to make the tube type announcement in his official review release.
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Post by drbill on Aug 6, 2022 19:35:12 GMT -6
My guess at this stage is that it's a very inexpensive and ubiquitous tube - one that's easily found and acquired for next to nothing.
And that's why they are holding back. Because once the word is out, it will be considered a POS by many in comparison to an AC701k - no matter how close they do or don't sound. It's a pretty obvious choice to withhold info with AC701's pushing up into the $2-3k range now as human nature always thinks the expensive one is the better option. You just can't win against decades of greatness, the allure and lore of a great tube, and an exuberant cost and lack of availability. That's an impossible task.
And that would definitely affect pre-sales. This is all becoming quite humorous to me. As much as I want a M49, and as excited as I was by the announcement - I think at this point I'd probably prefer to wait for a good vintage one to pop up FS. Their price will no doubt be dropping with the V in the wings. That is unless I hear magic coming out of the V's. And I haven't heard that yet. I'll keep my ears unbiased and open to greatness and my expectations reigned in,,,,,, Cheers,
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Post by aremos on Aug 6, 2022 19:43:57 GMT -6
... unless I hear magic coming out of the V's. And I haven't heard that yet. So we wait. Neither you or I have heard it and those are the only pair of ears that count.
(In context to just us in this conversation that is) |
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