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Post by drbill on Aug 2, 2022 12:24:23 GMT -6
While the noise spec looks high if indeed the circuit is the original with a simple tube substitution I’m surprised it measures as well. The amplifier needs to be designed around the tube. Which brings me to some head scratching. They say the circuit is identical - however they have a new tube? Did they not make accommodations for the new tube and the way it sounds / reacts? You can't have it both ways. If you can swap out to an AC701k and it's designed for the new tube, the AC701k tubed version is not going to sound like a vintage model. If you designed for a non equipped AC701k, and the tube is not IDENTICAL to an AC701k - how can the new tube be as good as it can be - or as good as the AC701k? I'm puzzled. Everyone seems to think that this ability to go back to an AC701k is the greatest thing, but IMO, it sure looks like compromise. I can't see it any other way. I'd rather see it fully designed for the new tube if that's what they have committed to, and forget the AC701k, or alternatively, have a well documented set of mods to bring the 701 back to old school stock. Honestly, I don't see how they can choose a new tube, and make the rest of the circuit identical and still have it sound like a vintage mic. PS - FYI, looks like the average going rate for an AC701k is now topping $3,000. Probably in no small part because of this mic's ability to implement one. $#@!#$%#@!!!! Last time I looked - about when the rumors started, AC701k's were going for about half that. Just a couple months ago.... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2022 12:24:51 GMT -6
Barr none!  Yep, I need some practice. |
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Post by ericn on Aug 2, 2022 12:30:53 GMT -6
While the noise spec looks high if indeed the circuit is the original with a simple tube substitution I’m surprised it measures as well. The amplifier needs to be designed around the tube. Which brings me to some head scratching. They say the circuit is identical - however they have a new tube? Did they not make accommodations for the new tube and the way it sounds / reacts? You can't have it both ways. If you can swap out to an AC701k and it's designed for the new tube, the AC701k tubed version is not going to sound like a vintage model. If you designed for a non equipped AC701k, and the tube is not IDENTICAL to an AC701k - how can the new tube be as good as it can be - or as good as the AC701k? I'm puzzled. Everyone seems to think that this ability to go back to an AC701k is the greatest thing, but IMO, it sure looks like compromise. I can't see it any other way. I'd rather see it fully designed for the new tube if that's what they have committed to, and forget the AC701k, or alternatively, have a well documented set of mods to bring the 701 back to old school stock. Honestly, I don't see how they can choose a new tube, and make the rest of the circuit identical and still have it sound like a vintage mic. PS - FYI, looks like the average going rate for an AC701k is now topping $3,000. Probably in no small part because of this mic's ability to implement one. $#@!#$%#@!!!! Last time I looked - about when the rumors started, AC701k's were going for about half that. Just a couple months ago.... The DR Nailed it. What will be interesting to see is what used Flea 49’s are going for and if the next Reissue is an M50! |
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Post by ericn on Aug 2, 2022 12:31:55 GMT -6
Barr none! Yep, I need some practice. Roseanne Barr in nothing is a very scary thought! |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 2, 2022 12:57:32 GMT -6
It's beyond a Shadow of doubt. Chris |
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 2, 2022 13:32:15 GMT -6
While the noise spec looks high if indeed the circuit is the original with a simple tube substitution I’m surprised it measures as well. The amplifier needs to be designed around the tube. Which brings me to some head scratching. They say the circuit is identical - however they have a new tube? Did they not make accommodations for the new tube and the way it sounds / reacts? You can't have it both ways. If you can swap out to an AC701k and it's designed for the new tube, the AC701k tubed version is not going to sound like a vintage model. If you designed for a non equipped AC701k, and the tube is not IDENTICAL to an AC701k - how can the new tube be as good as it can be - or as good as the AC701k? I'm puzzled. Everyone seems to think that this ability to go back to an AC701k is the greatest thing, but IMO, it sure looks like compromise. I can't see it any other way. I'd rather see it fully designed for the new tube if that's what they have committed to, and forget the AC701k, or alternatively, have a well documented set of mods to bring the 701 back to old school stock. Honestly, I don't see how they can choose a new tube, and make the rest of the circuit identical and still have it sound like a vintage mic. PS - FYI, looks like the average going rate for an AC701k is now topping $3,000. Probably in no small part because of this mic's ability to implement one. $#@!#$%#@!!!! Last time I looked - about when the rumors started, AC701k's were going for about half that. Just a couple months ago.... The MK67 kit has a switch that allows for using a PF86 or EF86. I imagine that's basically what they've done, and the heater voltage changes to accommodate whichever tube is in use. I know when I've spoken with Ivan about swapping the 6S6B-V for an AC701k in my FleA 49 it wasn't a quick change and involved modifications to both the mic and power supply. I didn't end up doing it, because he didn't have a source for them and I haven't been able to track one down through a reliable source either. I'm still sad they didn't try and partner with a current tube manufacturer to try and bring the AC701 back to life. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 2, 2022 13:36:42 GMT -6
Which brings me to some head scratching. They say the circuit is identical - however they have a new tube? Did they not make accommodations for the new tube and the way it sounds / reacts? You can't have it both ways. If you can swap out to an AC701k and it's designed for the new tube, the AC701k tubed version is not going to sound like a vintage model. If you designed for a non equipped AC701k, and the tube is not IDENTICAL to an AC701k - how can the new tube be as good as it can be - or as good as the AC701k? I'm puzzled. Everyone seems to think that this ability to go back to an AC701k is the greatest thing, but IMO, it sure looks like compromise. I can't see it any other way. I'd rather see it fully designed for the new tube if that's what they have committed to, and forget the AC701k, or alternatively, have a well documented set of mods to bring the 701 back to old school stock. Honestly, I don't see how they can choose a new tube, and make the rest of the circuit identical and still have it sound like a vintage mic. PS - FYI, looks like the average going rate for an AC701k is now topping $3,000. Probably in no small part because of this mic's ability to implement one. $#@!#$%#@!!!! Last time I looked - about when the rumors started, AC701k's were going for about half that. Just a couple months ago.... The MK67 kit has a switch that allows for using a PF86 or EF86. I imagine that's basically what they've done, and the heater voltage changes to accommodate whichever tube is in use. I know when I've spoken with Ivan about swapping the 6S6B-V for an AC701k in my FleA 49 it wasn't a quick change and involved modifications to both the mic and power supply. I didn't end up doing it, because he didn't have a source for them and I haven't been able to track one down through a reliable source either. I'm still sad they didn't try and partner with a current tube manufacturer to try and bring the AC701 back to life. Sure. It's easy to switch out a tube and get a different "flavor". We do it all the time. My question comes as : How can both be "identical" to the original with a tube swap and flick of a voltage switch. That makes no sense to me. |
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Post by EmRR on Aug 2, 2022 13:50:09 GMT -6
My question comes as : How can both be "identical" to the original with a tube swap and flick of a voltage switch. That makes no sense to me. Problem is, define "identical", in a world where the extant original mics are hardly identical. And yeah, the PF86 and the EF86 are "identical", yet in a u67 any and every tube sounds noticeably different than any other. Same with 12AX7's, etc etc etc etc. The tube rolling never ends. If there were 12 varieties of AC701K's, they'd all be in use, and all sound different, while all meeting every spec a manufacturer can quote. We're really straining the unobtainium virgin C-hairs here. Simple answer is the whole thing is unobtainium, unless you can throw 5 figures at an original you like. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 2, 2022 14:21:14 GMT -6
My question comes as : How can both be "identical" to the original with a tube swap and flick of a voltage switch. That makes no sense to me. Problem is, define "identical", in a world where the extant original mics are hardly identical. And yeah, the PF86 and the EF86 are "identical", yet in a u67 any and every tube sounds noticeably different than any other. Same with 12AX7's, etc etc etc etc. The tube rolling never ends. If there were 12 varieties of AC701K's, they'd all be in use, and all sound different, while all meeting every spec a manufacturer can quote. We're really straining the unobtainium virgin C-hairs here. Simple answer is the whole thing is unobtainium, unless you can throw 5 figures at an original you like. And even then a 70 year old mic has probably had some parts that were replaced along the way. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 2, 2022 14:22:17 GMT -6
My question comes as : How can both be "identical" to the original with a tube swap and flick of a voltage switch. That makes no sense to me. Problem is, define "identical", in a world where the extant original mics are hardly identical. And yeah, the PF86 and the EF86 are "identical", yet in a u67 any and every tube sounds noticeably different than any other. Same with 12AX7's, etc etc etc etc. The tube rolling never ends. If there were 12 varieties of AC701K's, they'd all be in use, and all sound different, while all meeting every spec a manufacturer can quote. We're really straining the unobtainium virgin C-hairs here. Simple answer is the whole thing is unobtainium, unless you can throw 5 figures at an original you like. Exactly. Thats why the marketing hyperbole gets a bit much. Of the lot of 49's I've used, ONE was absolutely magical, and two were exceptional. The rest were mics. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 2, 2022 14:59:55 GMT -6
Problem is, define "identical", in a world where the extant original mics are hardly identical. And yeah, the PF86 and the EF86 are "identical", yet in a u67 any and every tube sounds noticeably different than any other. Same with 12AX7's, etc etc etc etc. The tube rolling never ends. If there were 12 varieties of AC701K's, they'd all be in use, and all sound different, while all meeting every spec a manufacturer can quote. We're really straining the unobtainium virgin C-hairs here. Simple answer is the whole thing is unobtainium, unless you can throw 5 figures at an original you like. Exactly. Thats why the marketing hyperbole gets a bit much. Of the lot of 49's I've used, ONE was absolutely magical, and two were exceptional. The rest were mics. This is one of the biggest problems with a market with $10K+ mics, got tech? And if you do how often does the tech look at or do you tell him eh? It’s not just audio, I’m still in the hospital, on this floor one of the BP/ Pulseaux/ Thermometers takes for ever, every CMA complains that they need a new one, but nobody will tell Biotech that it takes to long! Now I can guarantee if someone goes and tells someone above the supervisor level that they could get 10% more done on a shift if the thing didn’t take so long it would be fixed! |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 2, 2022 15:47:36 GMT -6
Wishing you well Eric.
Literally and figuratively.
Chris
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Post by chessparov on Aug 2, 2022 15:48:48 GMT -6
Problem is, define "identical", in a world where the extant original mics are hardly identical. And yeah, the PF86 and the EF86 are "identical", yet in a u67 any and every tube sounds noticeably different than any other. Same with 12AX7's, etc etc etc etc. The tube rolling never ends. If there were 12 varieties of AC701K's, they'd all be in use, and all sound different, while all meeting every spec a manufacturer can quote. We're really straining the unobtainium virgin C-hairs here. Simple answer is the whole thing is unobtainium, unless you can throw 5 figures at an original you like. Exactly. Thats why the marketing hyperbole gets a bit much. Of the lot of 49's I've used, ONE was absolutely magical, and two were exceptional. The rest were mics. Unfortunately, the magical one disappeared somehow. Chris |
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Post by drbill on Aug 2, 2022 15:54:39 GMT -6
Exactly. Thats why the marketing hyperbole gets a bit much. Of the lot of 49's I've used, ONE was absolutely magical, and two were exceptional. The rest were mics. Unfortunately, the magical one disappeared somehow. Chris Nah...it's still there if you want to pay Capitol's day rate. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 2, 2022 16:06:12 GMT -6
(Best Nigel Bruce/Dr. Watson voice) "Capitol idea old chap!" Chris |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 2, 2022 16:10:03 GMT -6
Unfortunately, the magical one disappeared somehow. Chris Nah...it's still there if you want to pay Capitol's day rate. m Yeah the problem with that is if I had that kind of Capital, I would own one of that quality. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 2, 2022 16:25:40 GMT -6
I'll need a Sherlock then for my taxes.
Who can make...
The necessary deductions.
Chris
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Post by Ward on Aug 2, 2022 17:14:37 GMT -6
I'm thinking a lot of us, who were highly interested at first, are going to be extremely disappointed by what comes out of all this.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 2, 2022 17:21:33 GMT -6
I'm thinking a lot of us, who were highly interested at first, are going to be extremely disappointed by what comes out of all this. This why we were always told this would never ever happen! I’m sure the folks in Germany saw all the sales of the clones with non original parts and said “ we need a piece of that.” The long term big question is what does this do to the Neumann name long term? Everything they built with the 47fet and 67? Really this thing is probably what should have been the 149, but those of us who were selling it were told before it hit the 149 was this. Of Course if it doesn’t sell like they want, they may have go back and look at their strategic plan and maybe we get an 84 reissue! |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 2, 2022 17:48:15 GMT -6
As most of you probably have surmised by now... My natural inclination of judgement, can be pretty naive-occasionally. LOL!
Nonetheless, I have a sense it'll work out fine for the (vast?) majority of buyers.
Chris
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 2, 2022 17:55:28 GMT -6
As most of you probably have surmised by now... My natural inclination of judgement, can be pretty naive-occasionally. LOL! Nonetheless, I have a sense it'll work out fine for the (vast?) majority of buyers. Chris It probably will but will it be the buyers they want? |
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Post by Chad on Aug 2, 2022 18:05:29 GMT -6
I am holding out to hear what Klaus Heyne has to say about the new M49V.
Being the owner of a U87Ai which has been modified by him (circuit and capsule), plus a U67 that has been modified by him (circuit and capsule), I feel like I can “hear what he hears” now (and I like what he hears, I must add!). There is nothing sub par about either of those microphones. In fact, they are two of the best sounding microphones I own.
That said... If he breaks this M49V down and dissects it just the way he did the U 67 Reissue a couple of years ago, and if he is able to highlight its strengths and weaknesses, and things balance out in a mostly positive direction from his perspective, I would definitely trust him and procure one for myself.
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Post by michaelcleary on Aug 2, 2022 18:40:52 GMT -6
As most of you probably have surmised by now... My natural inclination of judgement, can be pretty naive-occasionally. LOL! Nonetheless, I have a sense it'll work out fine for the (vast?) majority of buyers. Chris It probably will but will it be the buyers they want? I have said it before and I will say it again. If you want one, you will be able to buy one. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 2, 2022 18:44:48 GMT -6
I am holding out to hear what Klaus Heyne has to say about the new M49V. Being the owner of a U87Ai which has been modified by him (circuit and capsule), plus a U67 that has been modified by him (circuit and capsule), I feel like I can “hear what he hears” now (and I like what he hears, I must add!). There is nothing sub par about either of those microphones. In fact, they are two of the best sounding microphones I own. That said... If he breaks this M49V down and dissects it just the way he did the U 67 Reissue a couple of years ago, and if he is able to highlight its strengths and weaknesses, and things balance out in a mostly positive direction from his perspective, I would definitely trust him and procure one for myself. Despite my disappointment with any variation from the original, and as a buyer of the U47FET and U67 reissues, I really really REALLY REALLY want this to work out! |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 2, 2022 18:47:35 GMT -6
Starting to sound just like my Prom Night.
Chris
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