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Post by mattcollen on Jul 30, 2022 14:52:32 GMT -6
Klaus just posted on the other site some very positive impressions of a near ready M49V prototype Neumann sent him in April to review. He called the finish "fit and superb", and every circuit detail copied from the original to a fault, with Neumann even implementing a few of his suggestions. He says he'll post a more detailed review when he gets the released version, but he ultimately called the execution of the prototype at least on par (if not better) than the U67 RI and seems encouraged by the new management. Very encouraging. Can't wait for the official details hopefully on Monday. His post was beyond encouraging! He rarely gives such endorsements. The naysayers (who’ve never had it in hand) have been in full-force on various sites the past couple of days. It is nice to have an expert opinion quiet the negative (with no real data) chatter. |
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bdw42
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Post by bdw42 on Jul 30, 2022 15:18:57 GMT -6
Klaus just posted on the other site some very positive impressions of a near ready M49V prototype Neumann sent him in April to review. He called the finish "fit and superb", and every circuit detail copied from the original to a fault, with Neumann even implementing a few of his suggestions. He says he'll post a more detailed review when he gets the released version, but he ultimately called the execution of the prototype at least on par (if not better) than the U67 RI and seems encouraged by the new management. Very encouraging. Can't wait for the official details hopefully on Monday. His post was beyond encouraging! He rarely gives such endorsements. The naysayers (who’ve never had it in hand) have been in full-force on various sites the past couple of days. It is nice to have an expert opinion quiet the negative (with no real data) chatter. Agreed. Hearing him call the prototype at least as good as the U67 RI is really great to hear. I know there was some controversy surrounding the capsule tensioning in those early batches, but the one I purchased last year has been nothing short of amazing. In fact, I was planning to purchase a second later this year, but I may not be able to resist the temptation towards throwing that budget towards this. The mic lust is strong for this one. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2022 15:19:03 GMT -6
Klaus just posted on the other site some very positive impressions of a near ready M49V prototype Neumann sent him in April to review. He called the finish "fit and superb", and every circuit detail copied from the original to a fault, with Neumann even implementing a few of his suggestions. He says he'll post a more detailed review when he gets the released version, but he ultimately called the execution of the prototype at least on par (if not better) than the U67 RI and seems encouraged by the new management. Very encouraging. Can't wait for the official details hopefully on Monday. His post was beyond encouraging! He rarely gives such endorsements. The naysayers (who’ve never had it in hand) have been in full-force on various sites the past couple of days. It is nice to have an expert opinion quiet the negative (with no real data) chatter. I hold Klaus’s opinion as the standard by which mics should be judged, but this one is a little different because of his direct involvement in the development. This relationship is great for Neumann, but I’m just not sure how it will serve Klaus in the long run. In a discussion with another huge fan of the M49 I was reminded that the one constant was the tube, while it is in general considered the third most sonicly impactful piece behind the capsule and transformer, even DRBill in this very thread has commented on the sonic impact of an AC701 based amplifier on various other mics. I will reserve personal judgment until they are out in the wild. Of course this why Neumann wouldn’t reissue a M49 M50 or U47, the available supply of good tubes. Don’t discount Hudsonic’s views, besides his own experience, much of the reputation of the 49 & 50 were built on the Mercury Living Presence recording s of the Chicago Symphony, his clients. These include full informative liner notes of what and how mics were used and serve as the backbone of Classical Reference Recordings, I still cherish my father’s Copies of the music of Leroy Anderson Vol 1 & 2. |
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Post by mattcollen on Jul 30, 2022 16:29:59 GMT -6
His post was beyond encouraging! He rarely gives such endorsements. The naysayers (who’ve never had it in hand) have been in full-force on various sites the past couple of days. It is nice to have an expert opinion quiet the negative (with no real data) chatter. I hold Klaus’s opinion as the standard by which mics should be judged, but this one is a little different because of his direct involvement in the development. This relationship is great for Neumann, but I’m just not sure how it will serve Klaus in the long run. In a discussion with another huge fan of the M49 I was reminded that the one constant was the tube, while it is in general considered the third most sonicly impactful piece behind the capsule and transformer, even DRBill in this very thread has commented on the sonic impact of an AC701 based amplifier on various other mics. I will reserve personal judgment until they are out in the wild. Of course this why Neumann wouldn’t reissue a M49 M50 or U47, the available supply of good tubes. Don’t discount Hudsonic’s views, besides his own experience, much of the reputation of the 49 & 50 were built on the Mercury Living Presence recording s of the Chicago Symphony, his clients. These include full informative liner notes of what and how mics were used and serve as the backbone of Classical Reference Recordings, I still cherish my father’s Copies of the music of Leroy Anderson Vol 1 & 2. I mostly agree with you. 1. However, one tube was not a constant. A good 3+ years of M49 production was done without AC701(k) tubes. Two tubes play a significant part in the mic’s history. 2. I would argue that Klaus’s involvement is peripheral, not direct. Neumann sent him the mic on which to critique, comment, and offer feedback (it was close to finished). I don’t think that hurts his credibility or brings his motives into question. That is what he does for a living: repairs, mods, and consults. He was quite impressed and offered feedback. But, we shall see if my optimism is warranted. 3. Hudsonic is a great recordist, engineer, musician and etc.; however, he was offered a spot in line for a mic. He claimed no direct experience with the new mic (although he may have it), and he dismissed it as not being a real m49 based on the parts? He has also claimed on a different forum that Flea 49s are as good as Vintage Neumann M49s (which have very different components although good). I am not dismissing him, but I am not sure he has anymore experience with the new mic than I do. At this point, I’d rather be an optimist and give more credence to one of the pickiest mic gurus in the world. Also, that mic guru, Klaus, is the only person to have reported firsthand experience with the mic that has posted in the forums. I guess we will all know more on Monday. No matter what, these are exciting times for recordists. I can’t wait to see what happens with this reissue. |
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olionajudah
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just learning .. one mistake at a time
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Post by olionajudah on Jul 30, 2022 17:30:47 GMT -6
Lots of pre-release excitement and skepticism on this one, understandably enough.
At the end of the day, that's all we've got until we get our own (and each others) hands and ears on this thing.
I, for one, am hopeful and excited, and Klaus's first shared impressions have done nothing to dampen those feelings... but I understand the reservations shared in this thread and the "other" site.
Very soon I hope, we shall know more.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2022 17:37:11 GMT -6
And to think...I thought my mic lust was satiated after getting a Soyuz 017 Tube... I think I'm the odd one out around here sometimes, I appreciate a good sounding mic but I'd never drop nearly $10K on one (forget the ELAM for a second, that was an experiment). Too many sub $750.00 mic's that'll do a great job never mind in the $2 - 5K bracket.. Monitors and room treatment? I'd drop double the amount of the M49 without batting an eye lid.
A condenser IME is only as good as your room and the end result is dictated by what you can hear. Or something like that..
Well Danny had I won last nights 1.3 billion lottery, I would probably buy 3, and try to become the modern William Fine. Sadly I won’t be doing that or have an Oprah-esq RGO Eric’s favorite things ( you would have gotten UM70, you would Have gotten a UM70…) Of course in my eyes (ears?) that’s the yardstick. How much better is it than a UM70? There are a couple I could justify, but in most cases it feels like we are talking $$$$$$ for.0001 percent gain. In a world where every other guy with an SM7 I has hung a shingle as a studio it’s really hard to justify! Unless you get really specialized and KC has an acoustic music specialist, so I’m doing more and more live and loving it. |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 30, 2022 18:30:40 GMT -6
There was a serious news leak, in that they'll be no USB version.
So that leaves me out.
Chris
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2022 19:07:05 GMT -6
How much better is it than a UM70? There are a couple I could justify, but in most cases it feels like we are talking $$$$$$ for.0001 percent gain. In a world where every other guy with an SM7 I has hung a shingle as a studio it’s really hard to justify! Unless you get really specialized and KC has an acoustic music specialist, so I’m doing more and more live and loving it. I'm not trying to preach of course, there's no point in that. It's just a funny ol' time especially in the pro audio sector where there's a lot of good stuff available at a relatively reasonable cost in comparison. Although everyone's circumstances are different, for some it might be a drop in the ocean and I've bought pricey music equipment I've wanted on a whim before.
I get it and don't all at the same time.. A part of me wants another ELAM, I probably have mic's that cost a fraction of the price but might sound better. Doesn't make me want it any less, fortunately I have bigger fish to fry so it'll get swept by the wayside. Although my other point was, in my book mic's like the ELAM or M49 assumes that your studio is already nigh on perfect or it might be a better idea to put that money somewhere else.
If nothing else this mic has raised a lot of discussion which is cool.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2022 20:00:48 GMT -6
How much better is it than a UM70? There are a couple I could justify, but in most cases it feels like we are talking $$$$$$ for.0001 percent gain. In a world where every other guy with an SM7 I has hung a shingle as a studio it’s really hard to justify! Unless you get really specialized and KC has an acoustic music specialist, so I’m doing more and more live and loving it. I'm not trying to preach of course, there's no point in that. It's just a funny ol' time especially in the pro audio sector where there's a lot of good stuff available at a relatively reasonable cost in comparison. Although everyone's circumstances are different, for some it might be a drop in the ocean and I've bought pricey music equipment I've wanted on a whim before.
I get it and don't all at the same time.. A part of me wants another ELAM, I probably have mic's that cost a fraction of the price but might sound better. Doesn't make me want it any less, fortunately I have bigger fish to fry so it'll get swept by the wayside. Although my other point was, in my book mic's like the ELAM or M49 assumes that your studio is already nigh on perfect or it might be a better idea to put that money somewhere else.
If nothing else this mic has raised a lot of discussion which is cool.
I think part of it is we have separated the “gear lust” from what tools do I really need to do what I am doing that I can deliver a product that satisfies me and my clients? I mean do I need a RADAR and 8 matching channels of Neve clone with real vintage iron pulled from real Neve consoles? No I don’t need it but it sure helps. Another example, I can’t find a nice Yamaha DM 1000 for a fair price, I need a console with recall, I don’t want to have to have a big heavy snake so there is an O2R local for $150. It will get me by and I can use the same components for a stage box. You have to make choices and weigh the options and opportunities. Many don’t acknowledge that with every purchase there opportunities lost, or the potential opportunities they may lose. Each of us exists in a slightly different situation and can justify different investments |
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Post by sean on Jul 30, 2022 20:05:47 GMT -6
After spending a little time with it this week, I would have ordered one if I wasn't strongly considering going down the Atmos rabbit hole. The studio is at the point where there aren't really any other microphones I feel the need to buy beside possibly this one and a Telefunken ELA M 251 (because originals aren't going to happen!)...and my old studio partner sold his original M49B for a healthy profit earlier this year
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Post by mattcollen on Jul 30, 2022 21:26:21 GMT -6
After spending a little time with it this week, I would have ordered one if I wasn't strongly considering going down the Atmos rabbit hole. The studio is at the point where there aren't really any other microphones I feel the need to buy beside possibly this one and a Telefunken ELA M 251 (because originals aren't going to happen!)...and my old studio partner sold his original M49B for a healthy profit earlier this year That is great that you got to check it out. Any details you are comfortable sharing would be awesome. Cheers! |
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Post by drbill on Jul 30, 2022 22:11:40 GMT -6
The reality..... Does any of the speculation even matter if they can only produce 3 a month, and you have to submit credentials to be considered to buy one?I'm interested in a MAGIC sounding (they are not all magic) M49/249 as they are quite possibly my favorite mic of all time, but I'm not interested in a competition to buy an uber expensive, mega hyped and as of yet unproven mic without an AC701k while royalties, studio time, hourly wages, and opportunities are in decline. As to ericn 's comment above. I still believe that the AC701k is a SERIOUS factor in all the mics I've used that utilize that tube. And the v version will evidently not be using it. It's not merely a coincidence that M50's, M49's, 269's, KM53's, KM54's, and others have a "sameness" in the HF open-ness of the mics. Be they Omni's, Card's, LDC's or SDC's. They can and do have different capsules, different circuitry design, different transformers, and different topologies. And yet...... .....there is a sameness to the quality in the HF and the open-ness in this wide variety of mics that only have ONE thing in common - the AC701k. It's a thing. Prove me wrong. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 30, 2022 22:19:27 GMT -6
Of course in my eyes (ears?) that’s the yardstick. How much better is it than a UM70? . Ummmm.....oh yeah.... Shhhhhsh ericn !!!!! They are already getting hard to find. I have 2 UM70's and 3 M71's and could certainly use more. Vastly under-rated, and hitting way above their pay grade, the mid to late 90's vintage are F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C!!! Mostly all you can find now are the older clapped out iron-curtain models, or the newer transformerLESS ones. All this is giving me a FREAKING AWESOME idea. I'm going to try the UM up close and personal into the Coil CA70's soon. That could be the answer.... |
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Post by crillemannen on Jul 31, 2022 1:02:46 GMT -6
You guys are funny!
This will for sure be a great sounding microphone. Neumann went to great lengths to reproduce a classic. Sure it's not the same as the vintage m49. But more so a reproduction with a pricetag that usually comes with an established brand such as Fender, Gibson whatever. It's a custom mastershop product aimed for people that want the very best.
It's not a far stretch to pay 8k for a mic when people are spending 6k+ on a boutique brand such as Wunder, Chandler etc.
I'd love to get my hands on one to demo but personally I would'nt spend that much on a modern mic. I'd rather try to score a vintage mic for a good price. Awesome sound + good investment= win win.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 31, 2022 1:39:41 GMT -6
What's the story with Phaedrus tubes?
(Grasshopper asks)
Thanks, Chris
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Post by crillemannen on Jul 31, 2022 1:50:51 GMT -6
Phaedreus makes substitute tubes for vintage mics. I've heard his ac701 in a few mics in tests friends send me and I've never been impressed. Got a 2k push which I didn't like compared to vintage tubes.
My guess without knowing would be the 6s6b tube since Neumann says it has a lower noise floor then the ac701.
People obsess to much about legendary tubes. Sure they sound different. A friend of mine modds ef12 tubes for U47s and I've heard a comparison between that and an original VF14. The ef12 sounded more like how you would EQ a u47 in a mix. Less lowmids and a bit brighter mids. Say +-2db. Nothing huge. I'm sure you can find a good substitute for both the ac701 and VF14
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 31, 2022 5:28:48 GMT -6
Phaedreus makes substitute tubes for vintage mics. I've heard his ac701 in a few mics in tests friends send me and I've never been impressed. Got a 2k push which I didn't like compared to vintage tubes. My guess without knowing would be the 6s6b tube since Neumann says it has a lower noise floor then the ac701. People obsess to much about legendary tubes. Sure they sound different. A friend of mine modds ef12 tubes for U47s and I've heard a comparison between that and an original VF14. The ef12 sounded more like how you would EQ a u47 in a mix. Less lowmids and a bit brighter mids. Say +-2db. Nothing huge. I'm sure you can find a good substitute for both the ac701 and VF14 It would make me laugh if it was the 6S-6B as that’s what is in both my FleAs. Which would make me wonder how different it could even be from my FleA 49. If so, I’d be wondering what they did to compensate for the slight dip in the low end. Anyway, still waiting to hear what it sounds like when there are more out in the wild. The long wait and the line that is already formed even before the release is disappointing. It makes it difficult for a guy like me who legitimately wants it as my person flagship mic, but can’t afford to be without the mics I would have to sell to make the purchase for that long. |
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Post by crillemannen on Jul 31, 2022 5:49:02 GMT -6
Phaedreus makes substitute tubes for vintage mics. I've heard his ac701 in a few mics in tests friends send me and I've never been impressed. Got a 2k push which I didn't like compared to vintage tubes. My guess without knowing would be the 6s6b tube since Neumann says it has a lower noise floor then the ac701. People obsess to much about legendary tubes. Sure they sound different. A friend of mine modds ef12 tubes for U47s and I've heard a comparison between that and an original VF14. The ef12 sounded more like how you would EQ a u47 in a mix. Less lowmids and a bit brighter mids. Say +-2db. Nothing huge. I'm sure you can find a good substitute for both the ac701 and VF14 It would make me laugh if it was the 6S-6B as that’s what is in both my FleAs. Which would make me wonder how different it could even be from my FleA 49. If so, I’d be wondering what they did to compensate for the slight dip in the low end. Anyway, still waiting to hear what it sounds like when there are more out in the wild. The long wait and the line that is already formed even before the release is disappointing. It makes it difficult for a guy like me who legitimately wants it as my person flagship mic, but can’t afford to be without the mics I would have to sell to make the purchase for that long. Why laugh? I don't think Neumann thought about tubes as we do now back in the 50s. Like a mythical being which can't be reproduced or matched. We'll never get the answer but who knows why they went with the ac701 or the VF14. Probably a few more factors then it just simply was "supreme". I too look forward hearing it. Sadly I don't think many good tests will surface. There aren't many u67re tests on YT and with only 25 shipped M49V a month the market won't directly be flooded heh ✌️ |
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Post by sean on Jul 31, 2022 6:29:45 GMT -6
The reality..... Does any of the speculation even matter if they can only produce 3 a month, and you have to submit credentials to be considered to buy one?I was told by Neumann representatives they are having what might be considered an "application" process to prevent resellers from buying and reselling on Reverb at a mark up...which I appreciated. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 31, 2022 7:44:31 GMT -6
It would make me laugh if it was the 6S-6B as that’s what is in both my FleAs. Which would make me wonder how different it could even be from my FleA 49. If so, I’d be wondering what they did to compensate for the slight dip in the low end. Anyway, still waiting to hear what it sounds like when there are more out in the wild. The long wait and the line that is already formed even before the release is disappointing. It makes it difficult for a guy like me who legitimately wants it as my person flagship mic, but can’t afford to be without the mics I would have to sell to make the purchase for that long. Why laugh? I don't think Neumann thought about tubes as we do now back in the 50s. Like a mythical being which can't be reproduced or matched. We'll never get the answer but who knows why they went with the ac701 or the VF14. Probably a few more factors then it just simply was "supreme". I too look forward hearing it. Sadly I don't think many good tests will surface. There aren't many u67re tests on YT and with only 25 shipped M49V a month the market won't directly be flooded heh ✌️ My understanding is the AC701 was specifically manufactured for use in microphones. It’s why it became the broadcast standard in much of Europe and why Neumann often made different versions of their microphones,one with the AC701 and one without; the U67 and M269 being an example of this. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 31, 2022 9:07:26 GMT -6
I'm sure you can find a good substitute for both the ac701 and VF14 Yup. Exactly that. A substitute. Not the real thing. Whether or not that is good enough for an individual is up to the individual. As I mentioned earlier, my experience with AC701 tubed mics is unique in my experience. Others may have a different opinion. |
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olionajudah
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just learning .. one mistake at a time
Posts: 48
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Post by olionajudah on Jul 31, 2022 11:33:01 GMT -6
Of course in my eyes (ears?) that’s the yardstick. How much better is it than a UM70? . Ummmm.....oh yeah.... Shhhhhsh ericn !!!!! They are already getting hard to find. I have 2 UM70's and 3 M71's and could certainly use more. Vastly under-rated, and hitting way above their pay grade, the mid to late 90's vintage are F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C!!! Mostly all you can find now are the older clapped out iron-curtain models, or the newer transformerLESS ones. All this is giving me a FREAKING AWESOME idea. I'm going to try the UM up close and personal into the Coil CA70's soon. That could be the answer.... From my perspective at least, this cat has been out of the bag for a while now. I've had 3 mv69x bodies (w/ 3 m70 caps) that I quite like for a few years at least, thanks at least in part to you actually  .. I even sent them to MTG for a tune-up and retrofit (p48 & xlr), but trying to find um70s or m71s for them has proven nearly impossible for me, and I'm in a pretty good city for 2nd hand gear. The few I have managed to get my ears on must be those older specimens, because they've never sounded worth the trouble. Still, reverb listings for um70s (more desirable to me) and m71s (still desirable for a nice sounding specimen) are regularly listed >$1k, and I've recently started to see the full kit (mv691 or 2 w/ one of the ldc capsules) for as much as $2500. I'm uncomfortable spending so much on a capsule I can't audition, but in cases where that's been impossible, I've gleaned enough from sample recordings provided by the seller to give me pause. One seller in LA sent me a stereo capture that made me wonder what they thought they were hearing/sharing. Were they mine, I'd never have tried to sell them as a pair. Individually one sounded quite a bit better than the other, but at the end of the day I didn't bother. MTG have been pretty good about servicing their out of production mics and capsules in my (limited) experience, but the turnaround time can be substantial. They were also able to procure a single m70 for me, but having bugged them a few times already, they've never been able to source an m71 or um70. I'm also at the point where I recognize the overhead of owning out-of-production ("vintage") gear, not to mention the challenge of finding (local) techs who can be trusted. ..now if you're looking to share your wealth of um70s you know where to reach me |
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olionajudah
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just learning .. one mistake at a time
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Post by olionajudah on Jul 31, 2022 11:48:33 GMT -6
It's not a far stretch to pay 8k for a mic when people are spending 6k+ on a boutique brand such as Wunder, Chandler etc. Heck. Telefunken USA is charging more for their u47, u48, c12 and 251, nevermind that none of them sport original capsules tubes or transformers. I hear they sound good, but the branding and marketing has always thrown me. |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 31, 2022 12:32:35 GMT -6
I think this is all boiling down to individual taste and judgment. Personally, I'm fine with "inspired by's" ala FLEA/Heiserman*/Bock/etc. But I certainly respect someone like Dr. Bill who would want THEE M49. (Well one with a certain tube;) ) Or Plush who felt the current process/approach/M49 internals... Caused a concern for him. IMHO Klaus deserves "battle pay" LOL! Tough position to be in with all us mic maniacs! Let alone at "some" other websites.  Honestly, if I were in a position to justify buying the Reissue... I'd only take it seriously with Klaus' endorsement, with judging the final outcome. Unless Dr. Bill wants to visit South OC. Demand will be so high also, I'd have to be using it on a pretty consistent basis. Don't like the thought of taking it out of circulation for singers/studios, that are more active. So thank God I've got that V69! BTW I like the T-Funk's, but I prefer other choices for le$$. Eric Heiserman knows how to nail the exact 414/251 Capsule. Of course, Tim Campbell/Dallas Upton are also Masters at those. But I haven't directly tried their's in a 414/251 yet. Chris |
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Post by Chad on Jul 31, 2022 19:20:36 GMT -6
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.. I even sent them to MTG for a tune-up and retrofit (p48 & xlr), but trying to find um70s or m71s for them has proven nearly impossible for me, and I'm in a pretty good city for 2nd hand gear. The few I have managed to get my ears on must be those older specimens, because they've never sounded worth the trouble. Still, reverb listings for um70s (more desirable to me) and m71s (still desirable for a nice sounding specimen) are regularly listed >$1k, and I've recently started to see the full kit (mv691 or 2 w/ one of the ldc capsules) for as much as $2500.
