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Post by hadaja on Aug 20, 2022 23:50:01 GMT -6
Okay quick vocal test. Serrano is a little hotter mic then the km84. Spoken with both capsules touching at the same distance. Clean stereo preamp with my sons pc computer fan whirling away in the background. Short test. 46 second clips
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Post by hadaja on Aug 21, 2022 0:40:42 GMT -6
Did some quick acoustic guitar tests and the km84 is just a tad sweeter in the mid to hi mids vs Serrano Vintage capsule. But the Serrano Capsule seems to be a little hotter and a small eq goes a long way.
Carlos was right the Vintage capsule does have well enough low end in it compared to the km84. In fact comparing Frequency Eq graphs the Serrano Vintage capsule contains a tiny little bit more low end info then the km84.
Dont have enough time to test the Modern capsule. Looks like next weekends agenda has now be set.
Also found out Channel 2 on my clean pre has a little bit of noise compared to Channel 1 that has shown up on the tests.
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Post by wiz on Aug 21, 2022 17:58:06 GMT -6
Did some quick acoustic guitar tests and the km84 is just a tad sweeter in the mid to hi mids vs Serrano Vintage capsule. But the Serrano Capsule seems to be a little hotter and a small eq goes a long way. Carlos was right the Vintage capsule does have well enough low end in it compared to the km84. In fact comparing Frequency Eq graphs the Serrano Vintage capsule contains a tiny little bit more low end info then the km84. Dont have enough time to test the Modern capsule. Looks like next weekends agenda has now be set. Also found out Channel 2 on my clean pre has a little bit of noise compared to Channel 1 that has shown up on the tests. There is something wrong with that preamp... there is also a high pitched noise in there as well as noise floor...what preamp is it? 84 sounds best regardless of the noise... cheers Wiz |
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 22, 2022 8:10:54 GMT -6
I think I'm going to get a chance to hear these tomorrow courtesy of jtc111. I'm excited. |
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 22, 2022 13:24:21 GMT -6
I think I'm going to get a chance to hear these tomorrow courtesy of jtc111. I'm excited. Looking forward to your thoughts on this and the 67. |
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Post by music7 on Aug 23, 2022 11:32:20 GMT -6
Pretty darn good. The Oktavas (modded) have a similar kind of freq spectrum, but no real depth I feel. These seem not as deep (both freq wise and image wise) as the KM84, but sound really nice and completely inoffensive. Also the other capsule sounds great for a different thing. Also these are BRAND new, I'm sure in like a year they will sound an ounce different. Anyone in this thread that can compare to what the Lulu fet does? |
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Post by hadaja on Aug 25, 2022 1:51:46 GMT -6
Lulu - clear clean and bright. Not a lot of weight behind sound. Not km84 material but still a nice SDC mic.
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Post by music7 on Aug 25, 2022 4:07:39 GMT -6
Lulu - clear clean and bright. Not a lot of weight behind sound. Not km84 material but still a nice SDC mic. Thanks, that is the case with the newer Lulus as well? |
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 25, 2022 6:30:40 GMT -6
A pair of good SDCs is something my studio has been lacking. Of late I've reached for my U87ai when tracking and guitar work while I've tried to figure out what I wanted to pick up, weighing options like the Telefunken M60 and the Schoeps CMC6. Well, on Tuesday I got to try out a Serrano 84 with the vintage capsule next to a Microtech Gefell M295. jtc111 and I shot them out on a couple of guitar tracks; finger picking and strumming respectively. If you know anything about the M295 and the KM84 you might already know how these two mics compared. The M295 provided a more open and less bassy sound, with loads of detail. You could tell immediately they would just sit in a mix with little effort, but might be a touch bright on the wrong instrument. The S84V was more general use, but I immediately had this feeling like I knew "that sound." That sense of, "oh yeah, that's the guitar tone I want" was immediate. In short the Serranos are officially on my list. Would the a real KM84 beat them, probably. I could say the same for my FleA 49 and a vintage M49. Between the 3 capsule options, overall color and quality of the sound, I don’t think I can beat them. Certainly you can't beat them at this price point. I have been vocal about wanting a pair of Schoeps CMC6s. That may still happen down the road, but not anytime soon and would be 3K for the pair. In the mean time these S84s would work wonders for any guitar work or various other instruments I may have at my place. Time to start putting some money aside. |
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Post by mcirish on Aug 25, 2022 9:33:29 GMT -6
Pretty darn good. The Oktavas (modded) have a similar kind of freq spectrum, but no real depth I feel. These seem not as deep (both freq wise and image wise) as the KM84, but sound really nice and completely inoffensive. Also the other capsule sounds great for a different thing. Also these are BRAND new, I'm sure in like a year they will sound an ounce different. Anyone in this thread that can compare to what the Lulu fet does? I have to disagree on the Oktavas. In my many tests and sessions recording acoustic instruments, I found the MC-012 mics to have a very slightly bigger bottom than a KM84 and almost identical top end. I'm not saying the Oktavas are the equal of a KM84 in all cases. But, when close micing acoustic instruments, I found them to be so close as to not care which was used. Not a single person could tell the difference consistently when I did an A/B blind test in the studio after one session. That's close enough for me. I'm not trying to derail this thread as I would love to try Carlos's new mics and may buy a pair anyway. Just stating what I found. I think in all comparisons with KM84's the ultimate test is off-axis recording, not close micing. The KM84 is a very wide cardioid IMHO, and works great with bleed from the sides. My Oktavas have upgraded electronics. The usual thing; replaces caps and some resistors. Mine were from around 2000. The upgrades cleaned them up a bit but the real magic of them is the capsule itself. Not sure how Oktava pulled it off, but they did. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 25, 2022 10:02:33 GMT -6
Pretty darn good. The Oktavas (modded) have a similar kind of freq spectrum, but no real depth I feel. These seem not as deep (both freq wise and image wise) as the KM84, but sound really nice and completely inoffensive. Also the other capsule sounds great for a different thing. Also these are BRAND new, I'm sure in like a year they will sound an ounce different. Anyone in this thread that can compare to what the Lulu fet does? I have to disagree on the Oktavas. In my many tests and sessions recording acoustic instruments, I found the MC-012 mics to have a very slightly bigger bottom than a KM84 and almost identical top end. I'm not saying the Oktavas are the equal of a KM84 in all cases. But, when close micing acoustic instruments, I found them to be so close as to not care which was used. Not a single person could tell the difference consistently when I did an A/B blind test in the studio after one session. That's close enough for me. I'm not trying to derail this thread as I would love to try Carlos's new mics and may buy a pair anyway. Just stating what I found. I think in all comparisons with KM84's the ultimate test is off-axis recording, not close micing. The KM84 is a very wide cardioid IMHO, and works great with bleed from the sides. My Oktavas have upgraded electronics. The usual thing; replaces caps and some resistors. Mine were from around 2000. The upgrades cleaned them up a bit but the real magic of them is the capsule itself. Not sure how Oktava pulled it off, but they did. I pretty much agree with all of that. It's the bottom on the modded octave's that is a little bigger. The top is pretty much the same as an 84, and the off-axis is different - not as good as the 84's. Oktava nailed it. Not that they were trying to. LOL My A/B tests have been all around, and MJ actually had a contest at one point to see if anyone could tell the difference. When I made those clips, neither I or the guitarist could tell the difference. They are scary close. Close enough to punch in with the other mic and not hear it. |
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Post by Quint on Aug 25, 2022 10:35:30 GMT -6
I just got my pair in. I'm looking forward to trying them out.
One thing I don't seem to see much discussion on is the KM83. I don't have a KM83, or know anybody with one, but I'd be curious how the Serrano with the omni cap compares to the KM83. For that matter, I'd be curious how both of those compare to the Oktava MK012 with an omni cap.
Since the discussion of KM84s always tend to revolve around the off axis response capabilities, I'd surmise that maybe it's easier to achieve a similar sound in a clone when we're talking about the KM83 and clones of the KM84/83 utilizing an omni cap. But maybe not. Has anybody made such a comparison?
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Post by music7 on Aug 25, 2022 10:42:18 GMT -6
I have to disagree on the Oktavas. In my many tests and sessions recording acoustic instruments, I found the MC-012 mics to have a very slightly bigger bottom than a KM84 and almost identical top end. I'm not saying the Oktavas are the equal of a KM84 in all cases. But, when close micing acoustic instruments, I found them to be so close as to not care which was used. Not a single person could tell the difference consistently when I did an A/B blind test in the studio after one session. That's close enough for me. I'm not trying to derail this thread as I would love to try Carlos's new mics and may buy a pair anyway. Just stating what I found. I think in all comparisons with KM84's the ultimate test is off-axis recording, not close micing. The KM84 is a very wide cardioid IMHO, and works great with bleed from the sides. My Oktavas have upgraded electronics. The usual thing; replaces caps and some resistors. Mine were from around 2000. The upgrades cleaned them up a bit but the real magic of them is the capsule itself. Not sure how Oktava pulled it off, but they did. I pretty much agree with all of that. It's the bottom on the modded octave's that is a little bigger. The top is pretty much the same as an 84, and the off-axis is different - not as good as the 84's. Oktava nailed it. Not that they were trying to. LOL My A/B tests have been all around, and MJ actually had a contest at one point to see if anyone could tell the difference. When I made those clips, neither I or the guitarist could tell the difference. They are scary close. Close enough to punch in with the other mic and not hear it. I was mostly referring to drum overheads, as that's (to me) where Oktavas don't really hang with top level stuff. Good for sure, spectrally fine. But a bit of a shallow image. |
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Post by rob61 on Aug 25, 2022 12:20:14 GMT -6
Quick comparison of some SDC mics on guitar for those interested. The mics I tested (in no particular order) are the following: Neumann KM-140 Oktava MK-012 mic (modded like Joly mod but did it myself) Serrano S84 vintage capsule Serrano S84 modern capsule The file is a 16 bit wave file at 44.1KHz, no EQ using a John Hardy M-2 mic preamp. I am not a guitar player. I strummed a couple chords on a used $200 Washburn guitar so don't expect great things but it does illustrate the differences between mics and I know a lot of you want to hear the new Serrano on guitar. Let's have some fun with this. There are 4 guitar samples we'll number consecutively 1, 2, 3, 4. List your favorite first, then next favorite second, etc. After the number, put the mic/capsule you think it is. For example : Sample Mic you think 4 Octava 1 Serrano S84 modern 3 Neumann KM-140 2 Serrano S84 vintage File can be downloaded here: fasttraxrecording.com/guitars.zip |
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Post by drbill on Aug 25, 2022 18:03:24 GMT -6
Has anybody made such a comparison? Yes. On 53's (AC701) with 83 caps. Omni's are VASTLY under-rated. Try putting it right up on your sound hole. 84's won't work well there. Generally. But 83's??  |
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Post by Quint on Aug 25, 2022 18:40:23 GMT -6
Has anybody made such a comparison? Yes. On 53's (AC701) with 83 caps. Omni's are VASTLY under-rated. Try putting it right up on your sound hole. 84's won't work well there. Generally. But 83's?? Agreed. I like omnis there too. So you compared the 53 to an Oktava with an omni cap? Granted, that's not an apples to oranges comparison. |
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Post by ab101 on Aug 25, 2022 19:21:34 GMT -6
Km83 is a killer mic. I had one in the early 80s. Neumann made a round foamie then that took care of plosives and I recorded female vocals to an otari multi track. Loved it. I would love to check out the Serranos in omni. That also takes care of the off axis issue. By the way, the km83 was $245 new back then. |
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Post by Quint on Aug 25, 2022 20:37:13 GMT -6
Km83 is a killer mic. I had one in the early 80s. Neumann made a round foamie then that took care of plosives and I recorded female vocals to an otari multi track. Loved it. I would love to check out the Serranos in omni. That also takes care of the off axis issue. By the way, the km83 was $245 new back then. I wonder what a KM56 used to cost? A pair of those would kind of be the ultimate SDCs to own, I imagine. I've never heard one, but I sure would like to. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 25, 2022 21:29:18 GMT -6
Yes. On 53's (AC701) with 83 caps. Omni's are VASTLY under-rated. Try putting it right up on your sound hole. 84's won't work well there. Generally. But 83's?? Agreed. I like omnis there too. So you compared the 53 to an Oktava with an omni cap? Granted, that's not an apples to oranges comparison. No. I haven't really used the Omni's much on the Oktava's other than for room mics in an auditorium. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 25, 2022 21:31:19 GMT -6
Km83 is a killer mic. I had one in the early 80s. Neumann made a round foamie then that took care of plosives and I recorded female vocals to an otari multi track. Loved it. I would love to check out the Serranos in omni. That also takes care of the off axis issue. By the way, the km83 was $245 new back then. I wonder what a KM56 used to cost? A pair of those would kind of be the ultimate SDCs to own, I imagine. I've never heard one, but I sure would like to. They are a fortune now. So are 86's. I looked almost 10 years for a pair of 86's that didn't cost me a fortune - or weren't beat to a pulp. |
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 27, 2022 4:55:13 GMT -6
Are the differences between the Serrano 84 worth the difference in price? I’ve got a mint and sequentially numbered pair of 84’s that I could sell, pick up a pair of Serrano’s and have money left toward another purchase. Or vacation with the family.
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Post by sirthought on Aug 27, 2022 17:25:32 GMT -6
Are the differences between the Serrano 84 worth the difference in price? I’ve got a mint and sequentially numbered pair of 84’s that I could sell, pick up a pair of Serrano’s and have money left toward another purchase. Or vacation with the family. That all depends on if you think the tracks recorded will satisfy you. Great performances have been captured using cheaper mics. I'm guessing the Neumann's get people in the zone they like faster. You can hear in the comparisons posted here a difference in openness, IMO. But I don't think anyone would find the Serrano's a bad choice if that's all they heard. These would be a strong asset to a mix anywhere a Neumann might be welcome. (Maybe not still for classical folks wanting über clean DPA, etc.) And for the current price getting three usable capsules is really awesome. If money is a concern, I don't think it would be a bad choice. Great value investment. |
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Post by mike on Sept 14, 2022 12:18:45 GMT -6
I only use my SDC's for Acoustic generally and I am super pleased with the pair of the Serrano 84's I received recently and would buy again.
I own a Km184. Never had the pleasure of using a KM84, but I like these Serrano 84's quite a bit better than the Oktava, Warbler 127 C-Flat Cardiod's, etc. I've tried or owned in the past finding the S84's smoother and more evenly balanced across the freq spectrum than some mic's that have a freq that pokes out more than the others you either like or have to deal with depending on the source.
Add the 3 capsules to the Serrano 84 package price and it is quite a bargain in my view as I really liked all 3 caps of the Vintage, Modern and Omni and especially liked stereo mic-ing the acoustic w Serrano 84 Omni caps.
Well done and congratulations Carlos!
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Post by drbill on Sept 14, 2022 13:42:26 GMT -6
I only use my SDC's for Acoustic generally and I am super pleased with the pair of the Serrano 84's I received recently and would buy again. I own a Km184. Never had the pleasure of using a KM84, but I like these Serrano 84's quite a bit better than the Oktava, Warbler 127 C-Flat Cardiod's, etc. I've tried or owned in the past finding the S84's smoother and more evenly balanced across the freq spectrum than some mic's that have a freq that pokes out more than the others you either like or have to deal with depending on the source. Add the 3 capsules to the Serrano 84 package price and it is quite a bargain in my view as I really liked all 3 caps of the Vintage, Modern and Omni and especially liked stereo mic-ing the acoustic w Serrano 84 Omni caps. Well done and congratulations Carlos! Then you would almost certainly like them better than a real KM84 as I've found the Oktava 012's (which is I'm guessing what you are referring to) almost indistinguishable from 84's on close mic'd acoustic guitar 80+ % of the time. That said, I'd still personally choose a KM84 over any of the above. |
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Post by mike on Sept 14, 2022 14:21:17 GMT -6
I only use my SDC's for Acoustic generally and I am super pleased with the pair of the Serrano 84's I received recently and would buy again. I own a Km184. Never had the pleasure of using a KM84, but I like these Serrano 84's quite a bit better than the Oktava, Warbler 127 C-Flat Cardiod's, etc. I've tried or owned in the past finding the S84's smoother and more evenly balanced across the freq spectrum than some mic's that have a freq that pokes out more than the others you either like or have to deal with depending on the source. Add the 3 capsules to the Serrano 84 package price and it is quite a bargain in my view as I really liked all 3 caps of the Vintage, Modern and Omni and especially liked stereo mic-ing the acoustic w Serrano 84 Omni caps. Well done and congratulations Carlos! Then you would almost certainly like them better than a real KM84 as I've found the Oktava 012's (which is I'm guessing what you are referring to) almost indistinguishable from 84's on close mic'd acoustic guitar 80+ % of the time. That said, I'd still personally choose a KM84 over any of the above. I have nothing but respect for you drbill, said that I have not tried KM84's, and mean no insult to Oktava or any manufacturer or their supporters, but simply just shared my experience FWIW. I don't know if the mod Oktava's 012's I've read about are different than the new one I bought and returned last year, or if I just got a bad one based on your great experience with them. I've also seldom to never IME found two mic's even of the same model or lot to sound identical FWIW. All I can tell you is my experience was not the same as yours that I respectfully stand by. |
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