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Post by chessparov on Jan 2, 2023 18:28:36 GMT -6
Next one up is...
The Chicago 7.
Chris
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Post by mattbroiler on Jan 2, 2023 18:52:36 GMT -6
ha now where is the Motor City 5 model we keed too  seriously these are on my list now they look hard to beat for the price |
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Post by plinker on Jan 2, 2023 20:15:17 GMT -6
ha now where is the Motor City 5 model we keed too seriously these are on my list now they look hard to beat for the price It's like a limp dick...hard to beat!
Sorry, kids...
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Ox Han on Jan 5, 2023 12:33:32 GMT -6
I’ve got a Cremona coming. I’m curious how it compares to the 3U warbler IVD as the 3U mics might be the best budget mic available.
Might need to try the Vanguard Gen 2 fet mics as well…
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Post by tackhouse on Jan 9, 2023 3:11:25 GMT -6
I just ordered the ADK Frankfurt 49-T. With it’s darker top end profile, I’m hopeful this mic can cover assignments usually given to the C37, or nicer ribbons like the 4038. And of course, expecting this to work well for vocals. That mic has me curious. Let us know your thoughts when you get it. I've spent a few weeks with the ADK Frankfurt 49-T, working mostly with male vocals (my own). In blind tests up against Advanced Audio's CM48t and Warm Audio's WA67, the 49-T holds up, albeit after some heavy processing. The mic presents a heavy upper mid bump, especially around 4 kHz. In Figure 8 pattern and some heavy handed EQ moves, this mic gives pretty pleasing results that compare well (or even beat) the Townsend Labs L22 with the Ocean Way Microphone's M49 model. Here's a screenshot of the signal chain. And here's how it sounds in action on a rough take of Buffalo Ballet with all respect to John Cale. Interesting microphone, it's definitely grown on me over a few sessions and I'll be keeping it. Note that I purchased during the holiday sale, and the mic included a wooden box and a ring mount. The flight case, shock mount and other accessories listed on the 49T's specifications page were not included. Despite this, the mic is still a good value. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 9, 2023 5:48:40 GMT -6
That mic has me curious. Let us know your thoughts when you get it. I've spent a few weeks with the ADK Frankfurt 49-T, working mostly with male vocals (my own). In blind tests up against Advanced Audio's CM48t and Warm Audio's WA67, the 49-T holds up, albeit after some heavy processing. The mic presents a heavy upper mid bump, especially around 4 kHz. In Figure 8 pattern and some heavy handed EQ moves, this mic gives pretty pleasing results that compare well (or even beat) the Townsend Labs L22 with the Ocean Way Microphone's M49 model. Here's a screenshot of the signal chain. And here's how it sounds in action on a rough take of Buffalo Ballet with all respect to John Cale. Interesting microphone, it's definitely grown on me over a few sessions and I'll be keeping it. Note that I purchased during the holiday sale, and the mic included a wooden box and a ring mount. The flight case, shock mount and other accessories listed on the 49T's specifications page were not included. Despite this, the mic is still a good value. Is that clip with all the processing in your screenshot? |
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Post by tackhouse on Jan 9, 2023 9:02:58 GMT -6
I've spent a few weeks with the ADK Frankfurt 49-T, working mostly with male vocals (my own). In blind tests up against Advanced Audio's CM48t and Warm Audio's WA67, the 49-T holds up, albeit after some heavy processing. The mic presents a heavy upper mid bump, especially around 4 kHz. In Figure 8 pattern and some heavy handed EQ moves, this mic gives pretty pleasing results that compare well (or even beat) the Townsend Labs L22 with the Ocean Way Microphone's M49 model. Here's a screenshot of the signal chain. And here's how it sounds in action on a rough take of Buffalo Ballet with all respect to John Cale. Interesting microphone, it's definitely grown on me over a few sessions and I'll be keeping it. Note that I purchased during the holiday sale, and the mic included a wooden box and a ring mount. The flight case, shock mount and other accessories listed on the 49T's specifications page were not included. Despite this, the mic is still a good value. Is that clip with all the processing in your screenshot? Yes that clip is with the processing in place. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 9, 2023 9:33:11 GMT -6
I really don’t understand their “tone color” graphic that depicts the 49 as having the most density. Even on the freq chart it shows a 4k bump. Weird. Anyway - I’d probably go for the darker 47
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 9, 2023 10:15:18 GMT -6
I really don’t understand their “tone color” graphic that depicts the 49 as having the most density. Even on the freq chart it shows a 4k bump. Weird. Anyway - I’d probably go for the darker 47 It's weird. It also doesn't match the way things sound when you hear samples. 47s are usually more open, but thicker sounding than 49s. 49s have a bit more focus, but rolloff more on top. Is that clip with all the processing in your screenshot? Yes that clip is with the processing in place. Cool. That's a lot of color to add to the signal. Thanks for sharing. It definitely sounds thicker than my TLM49, which could be good or bad depending on the goal. |
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Post by tackhouse on Jan 9, 2023 14:08:42 GMT -6
I really don’t understand their “tone color” graphic that depicts the 49 as having the most density. Even on the freq chart it shows a 4k bump. Weird. Anyway - I’d probably go for the darker 47 It's weird. It also doesn't match the way things sound when you hear samples. 47s are usually more open, but thicker sounding than 49s. 49s have a bit more focus, but rolloff more on top. Yes that clip is with the processing in place. Cool. That's a lot of color to add to the signal. Thanks for sharing. It definitely sounds thicker than my TLM49, which could be good or bad depending on the goal. Yeah, I hit it pretty hard. When I get a chance, I’ll post a link to the unprocessed files here. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 9, 2023 14:18:02 GMT -6
I really don’t understand their “tone color” graphic that depicts the 49 as having the most density. Even on the freq chart it shows a 4k bump. Weird. Anyway - I’d probably go for the darker 47 Not sure about their tone color chart, but ADK has always suffered from bad marketing. Too many different products, aimed at different customers (Pro, amateur, prosumer etc), with too many options, and frequently changing marketing hype...They've streamlined things quite a bit, and for the better, but I still see confusing ad copy and marketing materials from time to time. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099 
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Post by ericn on Jan 9, 2023 14:40:22 GMT -6
I really don’t understand their “tone color” graphic that depicts the 49 as having the most density. Even on the freq chart it shows a 4k bump. Weird. Anyway - I’d probably go for the darker 47 this is what happens when all the personality is from tuning the electronics, vs use the right capsule, circuit and transformer. |
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Post by tackhouse on Jan 9, 2023 21:19:26 GMT -6
It's weird. It also doesn't match the way things sound when you hear samples. 47s are usually more open, but thicker sounding than 49s. 49s have a bit more focus, but rolloff more on top. Cool. That's a lot of color to add to the signal. Thanks for sharing. It definitely sounds thicker than my TLM49, which could be good or bad depending on the goal. Yeah, I hit it pretty hard. When I get a chance, I’ll post a link to the unprocessed files here. Welp, today a Seventh Circle Audio One Shot N72 mic preamp arrived. After an hour, I'm happy to report this preamp is a lot happier with the ADK 49T, than the 49T was with the Apollo x8p's built in preamp. Like holy smokes, great, time to buy more external preamps I guess. Here's an audio clip without processing, 49T into the N72 into the Apollo x8p line in, accompanied with light piano. And here's the same take, just vocal, no piano. For these takes, the 49T is in cardioid with high pass filter and 10 dB engaged. Here's how the N72 preamp was set:  Hopefully, these clips give a better sense of how the 49T performs. I'm very pleased with it. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 10, 2023 5:57:04 GMT -6
tackhouse , yes. Outboard Neve preamps for the win! Thanks for posting that. It gives me a really good idea how it sounds. I think it sounds really nice. It’s interesting to me that you were comparing it to the AA CM48T. I’ve had that in here. It’s not my favorite 47 style mic, but I liked it. I felt like it kind of did it’s own thing. There CM49 is still my favorite of all their mics. Btw, if you are using the UA built in preamps, be sure to use the unison plugins. They won’t be as good as the real outboard stuff, but they’ll be better than the stock sound. For Neve I always preferred their “Neve 1290 Preamp” over their 1073 channel strip.
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Post by chessparov on Jan 10, 2023 9:09:36 GMT -6
I really don’t understand their “tone color” graphic that depicts the 49 as having the most density. Even on the freq chart it shows a 4k bump. Weird. Anyway - I’d probably go for the darker 47 this is what happens when all the personality is from tuning the electronics, vs use the right capsule, circuit and transformer. Hmm... I guess it's analogous to expecting Plugs to work their magic, on an otherwise mediocre (or worse) microphone. Chris P.S. Although indications seem to be the T-FET's are very nice. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Jan 10, 2023 10:14:14 GMT -6
this is what happens when all the personality is from tuning the electronics, vs use the right capsule, circuit and transformer. Hmm... I guess it's analogous to expecting Plugs to work their magic, on an otherwise mediocre (or worse) microphone. Chris P.S. Although indications seem to be the T-FET's are very nice. ADK are decent mics, it’s just not that last word in capsule’s and subtleties that even a nice FET Build with a Tim ‘s c12 or a Thirsch’s M7. I have known guys who love them, to the point where they make Ward seam silent about Audioscape, then they try something like a Flea and realize detail is as important as voicing and the ADK chapter is over. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 10, 2023 13:12:59 GMT -6
Hmm... I guess it's analogous to expecting Plugs to work their magic, on an otherwise mediocre (or worse) microphone. Chris P.S. Although indications seem to be the T-FET's are very nice. ADK are decent mics, it’s just not that last word in capsule’s and subtleties that even a nice FET Build with a Tim ‘s c12 or a Thirsch’s M7. I have known guys who love them, to the point where they make Ward seam silent about Audioscape, then they try something like a Flea and realize detail is as important as voicing and the ADK chapter is over. Yeah, that's why for me they are mics to "fill in" where I need them as support for my Neumanns and FleAs. |
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Post by tackhouse on Jan 10, 2023 21:06:43 GMT -6
tackhouse , yes. Outboard Neve preamps for the win! Thanks for posting that. It gives me a really good idea how it sounds. I think it sounds really nice. It’s interesting to me that you were comparing it to the AA CM48T. I’ve had that in here. It’s not my favorite 47 style mic, but I liked it. I felt like it kind of did it’s own thing. There CM49 is still my favorite of all their mics. Btw, if you are using the UA built in preamps, be sure to use the unison plugins. They won’t be as good as the real outboard stuff, but they’ll be better than the stock sound. For Neve I always preferred their “Neve 1290 Preamp” over their 1073 channel strip. Thanks Vincent. For the initial demo where the 49T didn't sound so great, UAD 610-B was inserted in the Unison slot. After some subsequent experimentation, I agree that the Neve 1290 in Unison slot gets close, reaching about 85% of the quality I'm getting with the 49T into the Seventh Circle Oneshot external pre. From this experience, I'm persuaded that outboard can offer a substantial and noticeable benefit over my interface's mic pres (even with Unison). With a Signal Art Electronics U47 Premium Reference Edition already on order, I'm adding some Stam mic pres and compressors for critical applications to my front end. And a new rack to hold all that. And a patch bay to connect all that. And some TT cables. And and and... |
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Ox Han on Feb 8, 2023 10:26:38 GMT -6
Here is a quick comparison I did. Same take with the capsules lined up directly over the floor tom/ride as a mono OH with kick mic and snare mic. CremonaWarbler IVDJust mixed a quick "balanced" kit with a little bus comp. No eq on the Warbler nor on the Cremona. However, on both mics I engaged the pad & lo cut. The Cremona low cut was gentle slope. V1 on the warbler I'll post my thoughts later. Hope it is at least informative for everyone. |
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Post by drumsound on Feb 8, 2023 12:29:34 GMT -6
Here is a quick comparison I did. Same take with the capsules lined up directly over the floor tom/ride as a mono OH with kick mic and snare mic. CremonaWarbler IVDJust mixed a quick "balanced" kit with a little bus comp. No eq on the Warbler nor on the Cremona. However, on both mics I engaged the pad & lo cut. The Cremona low cut was gentle slope. V1 on the warbler I'll post my thoughts later. Hope it is at least informative for everyone. Pretty interesting. the Warbler sounds more 'pre eq'd' than the Cremona. |
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Post by ragan on Feb 8, 2023 22:44:23 GMT -6
Here is a quick comparison I did. Same take with the capsules lined up directly over the floor tom/ride as a mono OH with kick mic and snare mic. CremonaWarbler IVDJust mixed a quick "balanced" kit with a little bus comp. No eq on the Warbler nor on the Cremona. However, on both mics I engaged the pad & lo cut. The Cremona low cut was gentle slope. V1 on the warbler I'll post my thoughts later. Hope it is at least informative for everyone. Thanks for this, this is cool. At first I thought I liked the warmth of the Warbler better, but now I think I like the clarity of the Cremona better. Most of all, I think your kit sounds awesome (nice playing too). I'm interested in details on your drums. Heads, tuning, what mics are on kick and snare, anything you care to share. Sounds really great. |
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Post by ragan on Feb 9, 2023 1:24:17 GMT -6
I’d also love to see the insides of that Cremona
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Post by tkaitkai on Feb 9, 2023 8:09:26 GMT -6
Here is a quick comparison I did. Both mics sound great to me and I don't really have a clear preference here. The Warbler is dense and thick (but not stifled or dull), whereas the ADK has a really sweet, articulate top end. I could get along with either. In a mix, I'd probably brighten up the Warbler to match the ADK, and it'd be even harder to pick a winner. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 9, 2023 9:54:41 GMT -6
Sorry for my delay. Here is a quick clip I made around Christmas comparing the Cremona 251T and the TLM49. I had meant to do something a little more elaborate and also put it next to my U87ai. I feel like I sound a little tired here. lol. None the less it should give you a bit of an idea how they sound. Been doing a bunch of session work through January and am currently reaping the benefits of being a "married singing duo" this valentine's season, and gigging like crazy. IMO you can hear the mid push in the TLM49 and gentle top end rolloff, but also the more drastic low end rolloff, even more so than the M49C. The 251T has beautiful air and a deep low end reach. |
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Ox Han on Feb 9, 2023 11:44:47 GMT -6
Here is a quick comparison I did. Same take with the capsules lined up directly over the floor tom/ride as a mono OH with kick mic and snare mic. CremonaWarbler IVDJust mixed a quick "balanced" kit with a little bus comp. No eq on the Warbler nor on the Cremona. However, on both mics I engaged the pad & lo cut. The Cremona low cut was gentle slope. V1 on the warbler I'll post my thoughts later. Hope it is at least informative for everyone. Thanks for this, this is cool. At first I thought I liked the warmth of the Warbler better, but now I think I like the clarity of the Cremona better. Most of all, I think your kit sounds awesome (nice playing too). I'm interested in details on your drums. Heads, tuning, what mics are on kick and snare, anything you care to share. Sounds really great. Thanks for the kind words, Ragan. Here's the rundown. Cranborne 500adat Snare - Sm57 -> 73jr II eq hpf on pre @ 110 approx & eq in DAW Kick - AKG D12vr -> 73jr II -> BAE 73eql (hpf 45, mids 270 cut a bit, hi is flat, but I roll off in DAW & cut @130 & 1k to taste) Warbler IVD/Cremona -> API 3124v - no eq except on mic as mentioned All into a little Wave API 2500 for a bit of glue. The kit is a Gretsch USA Custom 12/14/20x12 and the snare is also a Gretsch USA Custom 14x5.5. The goal was to get a more "dead" sound while also pitching the drums down with out additional tuning. To give credit where due, I got this idea watching a Jake Reed video. He's very transparent in how he gets drum sounds & I can't appreciate that enough. I put a bandana over half of the rack tom head & taped it to stay on. This achieved the balance between "dead" and pitch I was seeking. I had to tune the rack tom a little lower to have some pitch, but not too much. I put a BigFatSnareDrum quesadilla on the floor tom & snare to pitch them down & deaden them. I think the quesadilla are a bit thick, but they worked on the floor & snare. It was too thick on the rack tom for how it was tuned & I didn't want to play the tuning game much. Hence the bandana. I loosened the snares a bit to get more snare sound with that mute on. The toms/kick were originally tuned to not buzz the snare too much & I didn't have any issue with that to my surprise. I like some interaction though as it adds to the voice of the kit. This kick has a ported reso & always has an Evans EQ pad inside. I added a beach towel evenly placed on both heads. I think I lied a small sand bag in front of the kick touching/leaning against the reso for a little more control, but not dead. One element that worked against the "dead" sound is my room, which is very lively. It's a limestone basement. I could kill the drums entirely if I wanted and that room would still be lively. I only have a few panels on the wall, but the room is pretty long/wide with very short ceilings (less than 7 ft). I found a 9x6 carpet under the drums kills a lot of slap echo. I also turned a shelf into an absorber by putting a moving blanket over it. For 80% of what I record it is almost the perfect drum room, but for that 70's dead sound not so much. (see pic) In the end, I was happy with the sounds and tuning of the drums. This will be a go-to tuning for me for the next few projects I think. Attachments:
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