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Post by robo on Dec 7, 2022 12:06:12 GMT -6
As you have learned at the end of the day it’s all about the capsule! The thing is often you will find the frequency response of a lesser capsule seductive at first but over time you start to notice the distortion and lack of resolution. This why most of the old hands will put resolution and lack of distortion first and realize they can just reach for EQ. It’s hard to think in these terms but when buying mics always go in thinking what can I add with outboard? What am I giving up for this tone?. While I agree the capsule is the most important thing, the ADK custom shop mics have a very good reputation and, to my ear, sound as good or better than anything else I’ve used. I wonder if you are thinking of their bang-for-the-buck cheap models? |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 7, 2022 12:23:22 GMT -6
As you have learned at the end of the day it’s all about the capsule! The thing is often you will find the frequency response of a lesser capsule seductive at first but over time you start to notice the distortion and lack of resolution. This why most of the old hands will put resolution and lack of distortion first and realize they can just reach for EQ. It’s hard to think in these terms but when buying mics always go in thinking what can I add with outboard? What am I giving up for this tone?. While I agree the capsule is the most important thing, the ADK custom shop mics have a very good reputation and, to my ear, sound as good or better than anything else I’ve used. I wonder if you are thinking of their bang-for-the-buck cheap models? I'm thinking in terms of the K49/47 in Vincent's TLM49 and the Flea Capsules in his Flea M49's. the top ADK's are good, but from our private conversations I know Vincent would love to find a budget alternative, but in most cases has been disappointed compared to these as his points of reference. |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 7, 2022 13:26:05 GMT -6
IMHO the key to the nicer "Chinese" capsules, is how finicky the QC is. Talking about ADK/Soundelux (now UA)/T-Funk Alchemy/Ref C sort of thang.  Not anything new for the Regulars here, but just thinking of those who follow later. FWIW I got lucky with my U195. But with Bock's QC maybe not "that lucky".  (David B. is sure passionate about excellence) Chris |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 7, 2022 14:19:25 GMT -6
IMHO the key to the nicer "Chinese" capsules, is how finicky the QC is. Talking about ADK/Soundelux (now UA)/T-Funk Alchemy/Ref C sort of thang. Not anything new for the Regulars here, but just thinking of those who follow later. FWIW I got lucky with my U195. But with Bock's QC maybe not "that lucky". (David B. is sure passionate about excellence) Chris Dave did a great job of QC, but you have to wonder where is rejects ended up.🤔 |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 7, 2022 14:43:13 GMT -6
Genuine Newmann's of course!
Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 7, 2022 14:50:01 GMT -6
While I agree the capsule is the most important thing, the ADK custom shop mics have a very good reputation and, to my ear, sound as good or better than anything else I’ve used. I wonder if you are thinking of their bang-for-the-buck cheap models? I'm thinking in terms of the K49/47 in Vincent's TLM49 and the Flea Capsules in his Flea M49's. the top ADK's are good, but from our private conversations I know Vincent would love to find a budget alternative, but in most cases has been disappointed compared to these as his points of reference. I'm sort of facing the reality that I probably don't have any big mic purchases in my future for a while, and am hoping I can fill out my locker with mics like ADK as needed. Hey, I have some great high end mics in here including my FleAs, MK67/U87ai, and a Pearlman TM1 with almost all vintage parts, so I'm not crying over here. The thought of selling off the TLM49 and grabbing (2) 49T-FETS is tempting. I should have the Cremona by Tuesday. Then I can decide if gambling on the 49T-FET would be worth it. Larry never seems to have demos. That would make it easier. Maybe I'll make a video to tempt him. He he. |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 7, 2022 15:04:57 GMT -6
Which manufacturer to demo then? Interesting that David Bock himself, thinks highly of the TLM49. Whereas I know JJ has a mixed opinion, from what I understand. (My intuition sides with David B.) Chris |
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 7, 2022 15:25:02 GMT -6
Which manufacturer to demo then? Interesting that David Bock himself, thinks highly of the TLM49. Whereas I know JJ has a mixed opinion, from what I understand. (My intuition sides with David B.) Chris I really like the TLM49 and can't tell you how often I use it these days. Not sure it would work on everything. I haven't had Emily on it yet, and I have my thoughts about what her voice will sound like knowing what it sounds like on the FleA 49. She sounds so good on the U87ai it almost doesn't matter. I'll probably try it on her when I get the Cremona in here. The TLM49 starts rolling off much earlier than you would expect. The roll off starts around 600 Hz. Its subtle, only dropping about 3db by the time it hits 50HZ, but you can hear that drop. If you look at a chart of the M49C that roll off doesn't really kick in until 150 Hz. The M49B was closer to 100 Hz. That said I can basically eat the TLM49 without the robustness of my voice getting in the way. With my FleAs I have to sing at a little bit of an angle, with the mic above me angled down. I wish the TLM49 were multipattern. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 13, 2022 8:47:44 GMT -6
Received my Cremona 251-T. Very impressed. More to come.
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Post by plinker on Dec 13, 2022 11:53:20 GMT -6
Doesn't ADK use 3U Audio capsules?
...or, at least, I thought they did...
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Post by teejay on Dec 13, 2022 12:06:14 GMT -6
Doesn't ADK use 3U Audio capsules? ...or, at least, I thought they did... From Front End Audio's site selling ADK capsules: "The ADK GK-49d Custom Shop Capsule is a dual diaphragm Australian-designed GK capsule..."...that would be Guosheng 3U, would it not? |
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Post by teejay on Dec 13, 2022 12:12:03 GMT -6
Received my Cremona 251-T. Very impressed. More to come. Go ahead, Vinnie. Make me regret selling my Z-251. (Actually, looking forward to hearing your thoughts and tests.) |
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Post by plinker on Dec 13, 2022 12:43:54 GMT -6
Doesn't ADK use 3U Audio capsules? ...or, at least, I thought they did... From Front End Audio's site selling ADK capsules: "The ADK GK-49d Custom Shop Capsule is a dual diaphragm Australian-designed GK capsule..."...that would be Guosheng 3U, would it not? The only reason I bring this up is that robo and eric were commenting on the importance of capsule quality -- and I agree. The 3U capsules have a good reputation, so I have to wonder how much better/different the ADK mics are from the 3U line? |
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Post by teejay on Dec 13, 2022 13:16:19 GMT -6
From Front End Audio's site selling ADK capsules: "The ADK GK-49d Custom Shop Capsule is a dual diaphragm Australian-designed GK capsule..."...that would be Guosheng 3U, would it not? The only reason I bring this up is that robo and eric were commenting on the importance of capsule quality -- and I agree. The 3U capsules have a good reputation, so I have to wonder how much better/different the ADK mics are from the 3U line? Larry's philosphy is to use the same basic internals on his mics (I'm speaking from my Z-Mod experience), and "tune" the mic via the capsules (transformers vary). That's why a line's bodies all are the same as well, just with different paint colors. When I had my Z-251 he sent me a Z-67 to test out and I was able to use my Z-251's power supply since the mics were so similar in construction. I don't know how 3U approaches their overall mic design. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 13, 2022 13:17:58 GMT -6
From Front End Audio's site selling ADK capsules: "The ADK GK-49d Custom Shop Capsule is a dual diaphragm Australian-designed GK capsule..."...that would be Guosheng 3U, would it not? The only reason I bring this up is that robo and eric were commenting on the importance of capsule quality -- and I agree. The 3U capsules have a good reputation, so I have to wonder how much better/different the ADK mics are from the 3U line? 3U has a great reputation, but not the same as Neumann, Huan, Thiersch or Tim Campbell. So when ericn talks to me about missing a TLM49 if I grab an ADK Frankfurt 49-T, it's because he knows I love the sound of that capsule, or the FleA F47 capsule in my FleA 49s. He also knows that while the 3U stuff is good, it's not the same. Something to note, the ADK capsules are not exact replicas. So their 3Z-47D or 3Z-49D is not an exact replica of a K47. Same for their 3Z-251D or 3Z-12D, which is not an exact replica of a CK-12. Further still for the 3Z-67D which is much tamer than a real K67. These capsules share some acoustic properties of the capsules they are emulating, and then are tuned to fit the sound quality that ADK is going for. This is also what BLUE does. The T-FET collection literally uses the same circuit and transformer in each mic. The Z-Mod Collection however provides different transformer choices for each mic to dial things in further. They have their recommended builds, but Larry will help you dial it in per what you are looking for. A lot of times systems like this can sound a bit like an exaggeration of the mics they are emulating. This can be a good thing or a bad thing. BTW, you can order the capsules directly from ADK: adkmic.com/collections/adk-accessories |
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Post by robo on Dec 13, 2022 14:16:29 GMT -6
I’ve got a T-Fet Berlin and a 3U GZ251. Very different capsules and sounds, obviously, but I can say they are subjectively both very high quality. I personally haven’t used any fet mics that sound better for either voicing (granted, not many solid state 251’s). I’d say my Serrano 87 is in the same camp in terms of quality. You’re not going to be chasing weird resonances or struggling to fit any of these in a mix if you choose the right mic for the source.
There may be something to the T-Fet circuit supposedly saturating more like a tube mic. It does very well in front of amps.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 13, 2022 14:29:50 GMT -6
In comparison, how well do you guys think the TLM's Saturate?
Grasshopper here asks.
Chris
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Post by robo on Dec 13, 2022 14:51:48 GMT -6
In comparison, how well do you guys think the TLM's Saturate? Grasshopper here asks. Chris I’ve never used a TLM that I can recall, but I don’t imagine any transformerless mic would saturate pleasantly at all. I think it would sound fine until it clipped in an ugly way. That doesn’t mean it can’t sound good on loud sources, though. Up to a certain point it would give you cleaner transient definition, which can be good/bad depending. |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 13, 2022 15:10:36 GMT -6
I dig the TLM67 though. Very very nice mic. Better on me vs. U87AI (minus further Processing) as a reference. I think I have a soft spot for Hardware Emulation over Plugs. Analogous to the Cremona here. Hmm... Now I have a coffee crave. Chris |
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Post by drumsound on Dec 13, 2022 16:45:02 GMT -6
Received my Cremona 251-T. Very impressed. More to come. Go ahead, Vinnie. Make me regret selling my Z-251. (Actually, looking forward to hearing your thoughts and tests.) And making me regret not buying it. The only reason I bring this up is that robo and eric were commenting on the importance of capsule quality -- and I agree. The 3U capsules have a good reputation, so I have to wonder how much better/different the ADK mics are from the 3U line? Larry's philosphy is to use the same basic internals on his mics (I'm speaking from my Z-Mod experience), and "tune" the mic via the capsules (transformers vary). That's why a line's bodies all are the same as well, just with different paint colors. When I had my Z-251 he sent me a Z-67 to test out and I was able to use my Z-251's power supply since the mics were so similar in construction. I don't know how 3U approaches their overall mic design. How did you like the Z-67? |
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Post by teejay on Dec 13, 2022 17:55:16 GMT -6
Go ahead, Vinnie. Make me regret selling my Z-251. (Actually, looking forward to hearing your thoughts and tests.) And making me regret not buying it. Larry's philosphy is to use the same basic internals on his mics (I'm speaking from my Z-Mod experience), and "tune" the mic via the capsules (transformers vary). That's why a line's bodies all are the same as well, just with different paint colors. When I had my Z-251 he sent me a Z-67 to test out and I was able to use my Z-251's power supply since the mics were so similar in construction. I don't know how 3U approaches their overall mic design. How did you like the Z-67? I'd put it in the same camp as the Z-251...a very nice mic. Just didn't fit my vocals. At that point I'd had no other experiences with a "67" style mic. I've since owned the Warm 67 with Neumann capsule (up for sale, by the way) and my recent 017 tube acquisition. If I can locate some of my sample recordings with the ADK I can give you a better comparison...or maybe even post a few things for you, Tony...albeit a lot of the chain and circumstances will be different. |
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Post by plinker on Dec 13, 2022 18:08:18 GMT -6
I'm curious how the ADK T67 compares to the JZ V67 -- and the GZ67Fet (for that matter).
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Post by chessparov on Dec 13, 2022 18:11:36 GMT -6
Only have tried the (seemingly) excellent JZ, at the last couple of Pre-Pandemic Winter NAMM's. Sounded very good. Plus the guys in the Booth are usually fellow chess players! Chris |
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Post by drumsound on Dec 13, 2022 18:26:26 GMT -6
And making me regret not buying it. How did you like the Z-67? I'd put it in the same camp as the Z-251...a very nice mic. Just didn't fit my vocals. At that point I'd had no other experiences with a "67" style mic. I've since owned the Warm 67 with Neumann capsule (up for sale, by the way) and my recent 017 tube acquisition. If I can locate some of my sample recordings with the ADK I can give you a better comparison...or maybe even post a few things for you, Tony...albeit a lot of the chain and circumstances will be different. Damnit, I have monitors to pay for. I would like to hear the samples. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 13, 2022 21:00:16 GMT -6
My understanding is that ADK’s 67 style mics are really 269 style mics. Larry has mentioned that their Z-Mod 67 is a sonic clone of his personal favorite M269 he has access to. The clips Todd shared with me definitely had an M269 vibe and not a U67 vibe. Not that it’s a bad thing, if that’s the sound you want.
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(David B. is sure passionate about excellence)
