Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Ox Han on Feb 9, 2023 12:49:44 GMT -6
Here are my thoughts on this shoot out between the Cremona vs Warbler IVD
The main takeaway is there isn't a wrong decision between these two mics. Both are great mics. Both are even better once I consider price of each. The Cremona feels more substantial than the warbler when holding them in hand.
The Cremona is open, but sweet on the top. The cymbals were never harsh & I didn't feel the need to roll off the top. This is a hard box to tick. The Cremona is open & has that edge terminated "scooped" sound I love on drum overheads. It has bit less low end as the capsule is 27.5mm. To me, this translates sonically in the kick sounding like it has a little more tone & bounce compared to the Warbler IVD. Overall, the Cremona is a great natural sounding, well-balanced mic.
The Warbler IVD is thick & gooey compared to the Cremona. It still has that scooped sound, but thicker. It's warmer in the top meaning less bright & it really does sound "warm" in comparison. No rolloff, or LPF needed. The low end is more extended due to the bigger capsule (32mm I think) & sounds heavier & more solid. Just listen to the kick in each mic. I also like the weight of the snare in this mic & how balanced the snare & kick are while also feeling very well separated. I don't think the Cremona does this as well.
I love the weight & separation of the kick & snare in the Warbler IVD & this is my preferred sound in most of this shootout. It's the best balance most of the time. However, I actually prefer the Cremona for the crash heavy d-beat part beginning near the 3:00 mark. The kit still sounds great in both, but the clarity of the cymbal hits and the rest of the kit in the Cremona is very nice for this kind of playing. The warbler gets a little gooey as a mono OH.
Final thoughts:
I think I will buy a 2nd Cremona. It does have a different sound than the Warbler IVD & can be a great "other option" for style/vibe. Having a pair of each just about covers every base.
If one is looking for a c414 XLS killer, then both of these mics fit the bill better than anything else I've tried. The Cremona retains the characteristics of the XLS I like (solid low end, well balanced) & dispenses with the qualities I dislike in the XLS (a bit crunchy, cold on the top, not much character). While I wouldn't say the XLS is harsh, it goes a bit too far in the upper frequencies for me & the Cremona is the answer to this problem. The price for two Cremona is cheaper than one new XLS.
The Warbler IVD brings a nice sound & features at such a bargain. A pair under $750 is a no brainer. It does what the XLS is unable in terms of heft & vibe. Obviously, it doesn't have the crunchy sound of the XLS and is much warmer. In my experience, using a pair for overheads surmounts the gooey-ness of one in mono OH for fast playing.
That's all I got. Sorry if it was longwinded. I hope you all find this helpful.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 10, 2023 0:07:15 GMT -6
Further thoughts on voice?
Thanks, Chris
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Post by teejay on Feb 10, 2023 11:23:40 GMT -6
Not that I want more competition than what is already there, but since you are all great people...Front End Audio's February giveaway contest is an ADK T-FET of your choice. The winner can thank me later.  www.frontendaudio.com/contest/ |
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 10, 2023 12:02:20 GMT -6
Not that I want more competition than what is already there, but since you are all great people...Front End Audio's February giveaway contest is an ADK T-FET of your choice. The winner can thank me later. www.frontendaudio.com/contest/I'm in! |
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Post by ragan on Feb 12, 2023 13:34:08 GMT -6
I wonder how the Cremona compares to the Teal CM-1. Transformerless, maybe same capsule.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 13, 2023 1:23:48 GMT -6
Same capsule IMHO unlikely.
The Teal sounds very nice, but in the clips I've heard... A relatively smaller "sound stage", compared to Warbler/Cremona.
Chris
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Ox Han on Feb 13, 2023 9:20:58 GMT -6
I have never seen any info suggesting 3U produces the capsules for ADK. Where did that info come from? Not denying, but verifying.
The capsule in the Cremona t-fet mic can not be the same as the 3U teal. The sizes are different and the fixed cardioid pattern of the teal suggests it is a one sided diaphragm, right?
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Ox Han on Feb 13, 2023 9:30:15 GMT -6
The Cremona has piqued my interest in the other ADK mics. I'm very interested in the Hamburg 67 and newer Munich 47 type mics.
Has anyone tried some of those sigma mics w/ swappable capsules? They have a fixed cardioid 251 type w/ transformer (C-LOL 251 FX) that sounds interesting. Not sure I'll try it as the Cremona & 3U Warbler IVD have just about every base covered.
I will get a 2nd Cremona. Question really is when?
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Post by ragan on Feb 13, 2023 9:44:06 GMT -6
I have never seen any info suggesting 3U produces the capsules for ADK. Where did that info come from? Not denying, but verifying. The capsule in the Cremona t-fet mic can not be the same as the 3U teal. The sizes are different and the fixed cardioid pattern of the teal suggests it is a one sided diaphragm, right? Oh I was forgetting that the Cremona is multi-pattern. re: 3U capsules and ADK, I won't post anything that hasn't been publicly acknowledged already, but without going past that barrier I can say that 3U makes capsules for a lot of mic manufacturers and ever since 3U came on the scene years ago, and people compared the capsules, there has been widespread speculation that 3U is the source for ADK's capsules (who tout their 'Austrailian capsule guru' in ad copy). And again without posting anything told in confidence, there has always been a fun relationship between what 3U comes out with and what other mic manufacturers come out with. 3U makes a 49 voiced capsule? Oh interesting, other mic brands are out with a 49 voiced mics a couple months later. 3U makes a C800 voiced capsule? Same deal. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 13, 2023 10:08:03 GMT -6
I have never seen any info suggesting 3U produces the capsules for ADK. Where did that info come from? Not denying, but verifying. The capsule in the Cremona t-fet mic can not be the same as the 3U teal. The sizes are different and the fixed cardioid pattern of the teal suggests it is a one sided diaphragm, right? Oh I was forgetting that the Cremona is multi-pattern. re: 3U capsules and ADK, I won't post anything that hasn't been publicly acknowledged already, but without going past that barrier I can say that 3U makes capsules for a lot of mic manufacturers and ever since 3U came on the scene years ago, and people compared the capsules, there has been widespread speculation that 3U is the source for ADK's capsules (who tout their 'Austrailian capsule guru' in ad copy). And again without posting anything told in confidence, there has always been a fun relationship between what 3U comes out with and what other mic manufacturers come out with. 3U makes a 49 voiced capsule? Oh interesting, other mic brands are out with a 49 voiced mics a couple months later. 3U makes a C800 voiced capsule? Same deal. What I can say is the Cremona is so much more even sounding than my AA CM251 was. The CM251 could get really bright, and not always in a good way. The Cremona feels so much smoother. Not sure if this is due to the capsule or a combination of the whole. Still, I'm impressed with it for the $500 I paid for it. |
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Post by ragan on Feb 13, 2023 10:49:03 GMT -6
Cremona inside. Note: I couldn't figure out how to get the head basket off in 30 seconds, so I gave up. It is most likely a few screws & I just couldn't be bothered. Oh. Cremona is not transformerless after all. |
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Ox Han on Feb 13, 2023 11:28:50 GMT -6
Cremona inside. Note: I couldn't figure out how to get the head basket off in 30 seconds, so I gave up. It is most likely a few screws & I just couldn't be bothered. Oh. Cremona is not transformerless after all. I also thought that was a transformer, but I know very little about electronics. Suprise for us! it’s a very nice mic (regardless price) and is different enough compared to the warbler to warrant keeping both and having a pair of both. |
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Post by ragan on Feb 13, 2023 11:43:57 GMT -6
Oh. Cremona is not transformerless after all. I also thought that was a transformer, but I know very little about electronics. Suprise for us! it’s a very nice mic (regardless price) and is different enough compared to the warbler to warrant keeping both and having a pair of both. Yeah I was just going off your description of it being transformerless. ADK ad copy confirms it’s transformer coupled. I’m interested in this mic, for OH specifically. May have to grab a pair if there’s another sale or something. I don’t really need them. I use a pair of Warbler MKID for OH and they are great there. Meaty. The Warblers replaced the pair of 414b-ULS that had been my staple. But I often end up pulling back some mids and boosting some highs on the MKIDs and I like what I hear in your Cremona OH recording. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 13, 2023 12:21:37 GMT -6
Yeah, the whole marketing thing with the T-FET series is that they have transformers with a rich harmonic content designed to mimic the sound of their tube counterparts. I don't think the Cremona sounds like a tube mic, but it does sound like a very nice FET mic.
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Ox Han on Feb 13, 2023 12:53:03 GMT -6
I thought I read transformerless. I'll edit my post. Thanks
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 13, 2023 20:50:56 GMT -6
I also thought that was a transformer, but I know very little about electronics. Suprise for us! it’s a very nice mic (regardless price) and is different enough compared to the warbler to warrant keeping both and having a pair of both. Yeah I was just going off your description of it being transformerless. ADK ad copy confirms it’s transformer coupled. I’m interested in this mic, for OH specifically. May have to grab a pair if there’s another sale or something. I don’t really need them. I use a pair of Warbler MKID for OH and they are great there. Meaty. The Warblers replaced the pair of 414b-ULS that had been my staple. But I often end up pulling back some mids and boosting some highs on the MKIDs and I like what I hear in your Cremona OH recording. I think I have a recording of my ADK Cremona as a drum room mic. I tested a bunch of mics the other week and don't remember exactly, but next week when I have some time I'll see if I can find it and post it. |
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Ox Han on Feb 16, 2023 19:38:05 GMT -6
The ADK fet mics are on sale again, so I bought another Cremona.
I actually want to try all of them at this point
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 16, 2023 20:01:30 GMT -6
The ADK fet mics are on sale again, so I bought another Cremona. I actually want to try all of them at this point I've only had my Cremona and Z-251 a short while and haven't used them much, but the 67 t-fet is really, really nice ime. I used to have a Miktek CV4 that I was thinking of modding. Sold it when I hear the ADK tc67 (tube mic). Sold the Miktek quick and pocketed the difference. Then I sold the tc67 and got the t-fet 67 which is (according to Larry) a few steps higher that the tc version, even though one is tube and the other is fet. Now I'm dying to hear the z-67.
I guess my point is try the 67 t-fet...I don't think you'll be disappointed.
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Post by teejay on Feb 16, 2023 22:56:00 GMT -6
Has anyone used the Vienna C12?
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Post by hadaja on Feb 17, 2023 4:05:39 GMT -6
Do you need a miktek cv4 back?
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Post by mcirish on Feb 17, 2023 9:57:52 GMT -6
Do you need a miktek cv4 back? I have to jump in and say that the stock CV4 capsule makes a good mic sound pretty harsh. I bought one and was ready to sell it. I couldn't find anything I liked it on. Then, I replaced the capsule. Now, it's used on nearly every session for either vocals or an occasional mono room mic. The electronics in the CV4 are good. The design is very much in the U47 clone with an EF800 tube. Actually, I like it so much that I bought a second one from Dr Bill a month or so ago and replaced the capsule. Sounds great. OK, back to ADK |
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 17, 2023 13:42:59 GMT -6
Do you need a miktek cv4 back? I have to jump in and say that the stock CV4 capsule makes a good mic sound pretty harsh. I bought one and was ready to sell it. I couldn't find anything I liked it on. Then, I replaced the capsule. Now, it's used on nearly every session for either vocals or an occasional mono room mic. The electronics in the CV4 are good. The design is very much in the U47 clone with an EF800 tube. Actually, I like it so much that I bought a second one from Dr Bill a month or so ago and replaced the capsule. Sounds great. OK, back to ADK What capsule did you put in? My longer term plans are to have a matching pair of custom tube mics, for which I'll probably reach out to Barbaric Amplification. But the CV4 is a very well built mic and I've thought that it could be nicer, and possibly cheaper, to just mod a pair of CV4's. IDK. |
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Post by mcirish on Feb 17, 2023 13:54:31 GMT -6
I have to jump in and say that the stock CV4 capsule makes a good mic sound pretty harsh. I bought one and was ready to sell it. I couldn't find anything I liked it on. Then, I replaced the capsule. Now, it's used on nearly every session for either vocals or an occasional mono room mic. The electronics in the CV4 are good. The design is very much in the U47 clone with an EF800 tube. Actually, I like it so much that I bought a second one from Dr Bill a month or so ago and replaced the capsule. Sounds great. OK, back to ADK What capsule did you put in? My longer term plans are to have a matching pair of custom tube mics, for which I'll probably reach out to Barbaric Amplification. But the CV4 is a very well built mic and I've thought that it could be nicer, and possibly cheaper, to just mod a pair of CV4's. IDK. The first one has a Beesneez K7 capsule. The second is a Flat 47 capsule. Flat 47 Both sound good. If I had to pick one, it would be the BN-K7. The K7 is very much a great sounding K47 type. Very comparable to a Thiersch M7 Red. The Flat 47 is quite a bit cheaper and has a slightly flatter sound. Not as forward as a K47. I find uses for both all the time. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 17, 2023 14:06:36 GMT -6
What capsule did you put in? My longer term plans are to have a matching pair of custom tube mics, for which I'll probably reach out to Barbaric Amplification. But the CV4 is a very well built mic and I've thought that it could be nicer, and possibly cheaper, to just mod a pair of CV4's. IDK. The first one has a Beesneez K7 capsule. The second is a Flat 47 capsule. Flat 47 Both sound good. If I had to pick one, it would be the BN-K7. The K7 is very much a great sounding K47 type. Very comparable to a Thiersch M7 Red. The Flat 47 is quite a bit cheaper and has a slightly flatter sound. Not as forward as a K47. I find uses for both all the time. Thanks! How would you say the modded CV4's sound with a k47/m7 type capsule? A local studio has a hand built clone based on a M7 capsule. The studio owner described it to me as a cross between a u47 and m49 sound. And dammit if that mic doesn't sound great on everything...acoustic guitar, male and female vox, drum rooms...Its a seriously great mic and his description makes me think its similar to the Blackspade UM17r (which I haven't heard). |
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