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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 13, 2020 2:06:33 GMT -6
pretty good break down here. Hope no one was holding out for this new mini. Does not seem worth it. Id be waiting for the next gen after this probably. All I got was no upgradeable Ssd/ram, no eGPU's and no 10 g ethernet (what is that?) with the mini, doesnt seem that bad but I guess Linus Tech I Don't Write My Own Videos Tips thinks its super terrible.
Idk, I feel 16gb of ram would be fine especially given the CPU gains. Same thing with GPU, given the gains would a eGPU be necessary? Would any current eGPU's even be compatible with the new chip?
I will say though I did not realize the Macbook Air has the M1 as well and it's basically the same thing with a screen and keyboard, if the performance is the same as the MBP and Mini, that looks pretty good.
10G is 10 Gigabit ethernet port which was an option on the last mini. Normal folks, not a big deal. If you're building server farms or need that fast a connection for other purposes it sucks. Standard ethernet connections are 1 Gigabit. And those dude produce a video every day. Of course he doesn't write all of them. But they are good videos. No eGPUs is HUGE. I'm sorry but their chip is NOT going to be able to replace a 2080 or 3080 GPU. Not even close. So that does suck for folk working with video. 16Gb of ram isn't bad. But again, if your doing certain things, not so good. Most audio stuff you'll be fine. But if you use a lot of VI's you won't like that. And video again..not enough. And is odd that they are all literally the same machine, even the macbook pro. Either way, it'll be interesting to see how they work out in real life, but I'm not holding my breath that some how they just revolutionized CPUs/GPU processing and are going to kick the crap out of what is happening in the rest of the computer world.
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Post by lando on Nov 13, 2020 5:20:13 GMT -6
I think that what we audio people are really waiting for is the upcoming small Mac Pro. It will obviously be obscenely expensive for what it is, and the upgrades will have insane price tags but eventually you get used to the price, buy it and never think about the cost ever again.
That’s my guess at least.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 13, 2020 10:21:07 GMT -6
I think that what we audio people are really waiting for is the upcoming small Mac Pro. It will obviously be obscenely expensive for what it is, and the upgrades will have insane price tags but eventually you get used to the price, buy it and never think about the cost ever again. That’s my guess at least. You think they will be developing a new Mac pro after just launching one? That already is a pretty damn powerful machine? Only way I see that happening in the next two years is if the total cut of Intel support. Which isn't unlikely...but not very probable
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Post by Ward on Nov 13, 2020 10:46:04 GMT -6
I think that what we audio people are really waiting for is the upcoming small Mac Pro. It will obviously be obscenely expensive for what it is, and the upgrades will have insane price tags but eventually you get used to the price, buy it and never think about the cost ever again. That’s my guess at least. You think they will be developing a new Mac pro after just launching one? That already is a pretty damn powerful machine? Only way I see that happening in the next two years is if the total cut of Intel support. Which isn't unlikely...but not very probable You have a curious and delightful way with words, including but not limited to, double-negatives! If the new 'bionic' chips are as powerful as tests show, I would reckon that Apple are already considering this. And if they are heavily involved in the chipset designs (as is intimated) and Avid, Adobe and others are pushing for more power, I would count on this happening... and possibly (finally) have a motherboard architecture where chipsets can be conveniently accessible and replaced easily. Not a new idea . . . but I'd like to see more flexibility in all aspects of Apple Mac Pro designs in future. or again.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 13, 2020 12:00:52 GMT -6
You think they will be developing a new Mac pro after just launching one? That already is a pretty damn powerful machine? Only way I see that happening in the next two years is if the total cut of Intel support. Which isn't unlikely...but not very probable You have a curious and delightful way with words, including but not limited to, double-negatives! If the new 'bionic' chips are as powerful as tests show, I would reckon that Apple are already considering this. And if they are heavily involved in the chipset designs (as is intimated) and Avid, Adobe and others are pushing for more power, I would count on this happening... and possibly (finally) have a motherboard architecture where chipsets can be conveniently accessible and replaced easily. Not a new idea . . . but I'd like to see more flexibility in all aspects of Apple Mac Pro designs in future. or again. Ugh. was typing on my phone haha sorry. And if it's as good as they say. Then right on! However confused by the statement about having a motherboard architecture where chipset can be conveniently accessible and replaced easily. How does the Mac pro not do this already? You can swap the CPU, add up to 1.5Tb of RAM as you want, and GOBS of power via the PCI lanes. It's pretty darn modular as it is. Probably the most modular and flexible Mac ever built I'd argue. What exactly are you referring to? If anything the new chip is way less flexible given that the RAM is baked into the chip and the GPU. Which even if the chip is better at CPU task I have a hard time believing that it will out perform the top tier GPUs that are out now. They are insanely powerful and are much too large and require more TDP that you could never go fanless like the M1 chip can(though probably gets throttled down a lot with increased heat, to be determined).
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 13, 2020 12:14:48 GMT -6
I think that what we audio people are really waiting for is the upcoming small Mac Pro. It will obviously be obscenely expensive for what it is, and the upgrades will have insane price tags but eventually you get used to the price, buy it and never think about the cost ever again. That’s my guess at least. You think they will be developing a new Mac pro after just launching one? That already is a pretty damn powerful machine? Only way I see that happening in the next two years is if the total cut of Intel support. Which isn't unlikely...but not very probable Yeah, it was leaked in the past couple weeks, man. They're apparently working on a Mac Pro that physically looks a lot like the current Mac Pro, but is smaller.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 13, 2020 12:28:50 GMT -6
You have a curious and delightful way with words, including but not limited to, double-negatives! If the new 'bionic' chips are as powerful as tests show, I would reckon that Apple are already considering this. And if they are heavily involved in the chipset designs (as is intimated) and Avid, Adobe and others are pushing for more power, I would count on this happening... and possibly (finally) have a motherboard architecture where chipsets can be conveniently accessible and replaced easily. Not a new idea . . . but I'd like to see more flexibility in all aspects of Apple Mac Pro designs in future. or again. Ugh. was typing on my phone haha sorry. And if it's as good as they say. Then right on! However confused by the statement about having a motherboard architecture where chipset can be conveniently accessible and replaced easily. How does the Mac pro not do this already? You can swap the CPU, add up to 1.5Tb of RAM as you want, and GOBS of power via the PCI lanes. It's pretty darn modular as it is. Probably the most modular and flexible Mac ever built I'd argue. What exactly are you referring to? If anything the new chip is way less flexible given that the RAM is baked into the chip and the GPU. Which even if the chip is better at CPU task I have a hard time believing that it will out perform the top tier GPUs that are out now. They are insanely powerful and are much too large and require more TDP that you could never go fanless like the M1 chip can(though probably gets throttled down a lot with increased heat, to be determined). There are many unknowns about future architecture of such a machine (M-based Mac Pro). Perhaps it will have separate RAM or a separate GPU, and hence wouldn't be SoC. Apple is the only one who knows, and they ain't giving anything away at this point. I wouldn't expect to see such a machine until end of 2021 or WWDC 2022. I think next year will be about the M-class iMacs and a 16" MBP. Maybe even an upgraded Mac Mini?
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Post by lando on Nov 13, 2020 12:59:33 GMT -6
I think that what we audio people are really waiting for is the upcoming small Mac Pro. It will obviously be obscenely expensive for what it is, and the upgrades will have insane price tags but eventually you get used to the price, buy it and never think about the cost ever again. That’s my guess at least. You think they will be developing a new Mac pro after just launching one? That already is a pretty damn powerful machine? Only way I see that happening in the next two years is if the total cut of Intel support. Which isn't unlikely...but not very probable This is what I’m talking about: www.macrumors.com/2020/11/02/apple-smaller-mac-pro-apple-silicon/amp/But I don’t know if it will ever come, and if it will replace or be sold alongside the current Mac Pro. My (super uneducated guess) is that they are seeing that many industries, including audio, need something between the Mac mini and Mac Pro and therefore keep the Mac mini not too powerful, and later introduce a much more expensive option that still is way below the bigger Mac Pro.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 13, 2020 14:24:14 GMT -6
You think they will be developing a new Mac pro after just launching one? That already is a pretty damn powerful machine? Only way I see that happening in the next two years is if the total cut of Intel support. Which isn't unlikely...but not very probable This is what I’m talking about: www.macrumors.com/2020/11/02/apple-smaller-mac-pro-apple-silicon/amp/But I don’t know if it will ever come, and if it will replace or be sold alongside the current Mac Pro. My (super uneducated guess) is that they are seeing that many industries, including audio, need something between the Mac mini and Mac Pro and therefore keep the Mac mini not too powerful, and later introduce a much more expensive option that still is way below the bigger Mac Pro. It has been Rumored since the first Mac Pro, is it real, who knows.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 13, 2020 15:26:22 GMT -6
You think they will be developing a new Mac pro after just launching one? That already is a pretty damn powerful machine? Only way I see that happening in the next two years is if the total cut of Intel support. Which isn't unlikely...but not very probable Yeah, it was leaked in the past couple weeks, man. They're apparently working on a Mac Pro that physically looks a lot like the current Mac Pro, but is smaller. Wow, interesting. Feels like the Mac pro isn't even that old. Ugh. was typing on my phone haha sorry. And if it's as good as they say. Then right on! However confused by the statement about having a motherboard architecture where chipset can be conveniently accessible and replaced easily. How does the Mac pro not do this already? You can swap the CPU, add up to 1.5Tb of RAM as you want, and GOBS of power via the PCI lanes. It's pretty darn modular as it is. Probably the most modular and flexible Mac ever built I'd argue. What exactly are you referring to? If anything the new chip is way less flexible given that the RAM is baked into the chip and the GPU. Which even if the chip is better at CPU task I have a hard time believing that it will out perform the top tier GPUs that are out now. They are insanely powerful and are much too large and require more TDP that you could never go fanless like the M1 chip can(though probably gets throttled down a lot with increased heat, to be determined). There are many unknowns about future architecture of such a machine (M-based Mac Pro). Perhaps it will have separate RAM or a separate GPU, and hence wouldn't be SoC. Apple is the only one who knows, and they ain't giving anything away at this point. I wouldn't expect to see such a machine until end of 2021 or WWDC 2022. I think next year will be about the M-class iMacs and a 16" MBP. Maybe even an upgraded Mac Mini? That's true. Lot can't change between hear and now. Will be interesting to watch it unfold. You think they will be developing a new Mac pro after just launching one? That already is a pretty damn powerful machine? Only way I see that happening in the next two years is if the total cut of Intel support. Which isn't unlikely...but not very probable This is what I’m talking about: www.macrumors.com/2020/11/02/apple-smaller-mac-pro-apple-silicon/amp/But I don’t know if it will ever come, and if it will replace or be sold alongside the current Mac Pro. My (super uneducated guess) is that they are seeing that many industries, including audio, need something between the Mac mini and Mac Pro and therefore keep the Mac mini not too powerful, and later introduce a much more expensive option that still is way below the bigger Mac Pro. Thanks for the link. Like they could be going from an ATX format to like an ITX size. That would cool. I would love to build a PC in this case: www.sliger.com/products/cases/sm580/ super small but with a Ryzen setup be insanely powerful.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 13, 2020 16:53:37 GMT -6
Thanks for the link. Like they could be going from an ATX format to like an ITX size. That would cool. I would love to build a PC in this case: www.sliger.com/products/cases/sm580/ super small but with a Ryzen setup be insanely powerful. That is a seriously badass little case! I remember seeing it at some point in another video, but had totally forgotten about it.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 13, 2020 17:06:02 GMT -6
Thanks for the link. Like they could be going from an ATX format to like an ITX size. That would cool. I would love to build a PC in this case: www.sliger.com/products/cases/sm580/ super small but with a Ryzen setup be insanely powerful. That is a seriously badass little case! I remember seeing it at some point in another video, but had totally forgotten about it. It's pretty sweet. I have a buddy who is building a Ryzen setup in one. 5900X, 32Gb of RAM. 2 M.2 SSDs and another 2.5" SSD. Sticking with his 1080 for now to see if the 6800 or 6900xt are worth it.
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grantb
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Post by grantb on Nov 13, 2020 17:56:52 GMT -6
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Post by OtisGreying on Nov 13, 2020 21:03:55 GMT -6
Apparently any Native Instruments physical MIDI controllers or machines have the potential to be physically damaged by running Big Sur. LOL. To literally break. NI's statement on this didn't look too promising that they would be reaching a solution fairly soon. I'm sure their software is also going to run into big issues. Likewise with most music software companies.
As much as I want to buy a new M1 mac it just doesn't seem like the majority of my daily musical tools will be able to be used in the fashion I currently use them for at least I would think a year. So I'm not going to take the plunge. Ableton can't even run atm on Big Sur, that will probably take months and then years for an actual Native ARM version of the software. Sigh, unsure where to go from here. Investing in an Intel mac is a hard one to rationalize given its performance is so outmatched by M1 and Ryzen.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 14, 2020 1:53:25 GMT -6
Frustrating , but how often do you actually need the perceived performance boost? Playing devil’s advocate. If m1 didn’t exist, would say the 2020 i7 8 core iMac with upgraded ram really not get the job done ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2020 5:52:13 GMT -6
Apple machines breaking interfaces is no big news. They used to fry FireWire devices. The hybrid ports on the current machines are incredibly electrically fragile. Given that their computers have terrible thermals, all kinds of bs can happen.
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Post by OtisGreying on Nov 14, 2020 7:07:11 GMT -6
Frustrating , but how often do you actually need the perceived performance boost? Playing devil’s advocate. If m1 didn’t exist, would say the 2020 i7 8 core iMac with upgraded ram really not get the job done ? It would, but spending 2k+ on something 30% less fast than the successor that happens to be half as expensive, and would be portable! ...ouch But that’s life
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 14, 2020 9:17:33 GMT -6
Frustrating , but how often do you actually need the perceived performance boost? Playing devil’s advocate. If m1 didn’t exist, would say the 2020 i7 8 core iMac with upgraded ram really not get the job done ? It would, but spending 2k+ on something 30% less fast than the successor that happens to be half as expensive, and would be portable! ...ouch But that’s life Are you suggesting you think the new M1 Mini is faster/more powerful than a 2020 iMac? I don’t buy that argument. I think there’s a lot of guys spouting off benchmark numbers without any context. Then add on top software compatibility/optimization issues. I feel good about my decision to go with a new Intel iMac with more processing power than I need, and all my software works. I’ll buy into a second gen Apple silicone. By then, all the software issues should be ironed out.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 14, 2020 9:35:00 GMT -6
No, I actually typically say, what I mean, which was does the op really need the perceived performance increase of the new m chip.
maybe yes maybe no, if no, then a current intel Mac could work fine with zero transition issues.
I am looking forward to the pro tools expert more real world audio stress test of its new M series laptop, which should be more revealing than Geekbench numbers: interesting as they are.
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 14, 2020 9:44:38 GMT -6
No, I actually typically say, what I mean, which was does the op really need the perceived performance increase of the new m chip. maybe yes maybe no, if no, then a current intel Mac could work fine with zero transition issues. I am looking forward to the pro tools expert more real world audio stress test of its new M series laptop, which should be more revealing than Geekbench numbers: interesting as they are. Right, but I didn't quote you above, I was replying to Otis.
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Post by ragan on Nov 14, 2020 10:02:03 GMT -6
Right. “3x more VIs [in Logic] than the i3 Mini” and 16g of (soldered) RAM max just doesn’t work for me to do audio work. Might be a bangin little machine for someone else’s use.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 14, 2020 10:16:34 GMT -6
Be interesting to see next M series IMac config.
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Post by OtisGreying on Nov 14, 2020 14:33:30 GMT -6
It would, but spending 2k+ on something 30% less fast than the successor that happens to be half as expensive, and would be portable! ...ouch But that’s life Are you suggesting you think the new M1 Mini is faster/more powerful than a 2020 iMac? I don’t buy that argument. I think there’s a lot of guys spouting off benchmark numbers without any context. Then add on top software compatibility/optimization issues. I feel good about my decision to go with a new Intel iMac with more processing power than I need, and all my software works. I’ll buy into a second gen Apple silicone. By then, all the software issues should be ironed out. That may be my only choice too. But to answer your question, yes I am suggesting that. 1670 single core >1250 single core The A14 iPad chip was already running above 1600. That being said because of software compatibility as I said before I may have to make the same move as you did, I’m not too sure yet.
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Post by Calvin on Nov 14, 2020 15:49:16 GMT -6
I’ll admit I spent the last 24 hours or so lusting after the new mini, damn the price is ridiculous. The thing is though in typical Apple fashion I can’t find anybody who’s actually used the damn thing. Every time Apple reinvents it’s computers via a move to a different chip builder we are reminded of how special the DAW is and how Codependent our DAW world is. We are still pretty much dependent on the brute force of a CPU rather than its ability to use all those cores. One would hope that a company that writes the code for one of the top DAW’s would address this, but anyone who has spent any time in a large organization knows better. The application guys point the finger at the hardware & OS guys and vise versa. You wonder if they spent 1/4 of the time spent in their meetings using the damn thing rather than arguing how cool the actual product would be. Every time we have been promised a revolution in performance, instead we have experienced what seams like just another step on the slow evolution. Yeah I’ll probably buy one, my old I7 MBP is suffering from the stupidity of mounting the cheap power button on PCB and having it fixed is about 1/2 of one of these new minis. What scares me is my plan has always been a mini and a PCIe chassis so I can use something like a RAYDAT to connect my RADAR. How high a priority is PCIE on one of these things for RME or Apple? Will I pay for the pleasure of being the guinea pig? Eric: I use RME's Digiface USB (ADAT/SPDIF) interface to connect my RADAR. Works great! $500 or so. No need for PCIe. I haven't tried big track counts, but I can certainly get at least 8 tracks concurrently over USB 2.0 with no issue at all, ever. The interface handles 4 ADAT pairs, so 32 tracks at up to 48kHz or 16 tracks up to 96k. Can also handle SPDIF. I use the first three ADAT pairs to hook up the RADAR and the last ADAT output port is dedicated to a SPDIF stereo out that hooks up to my D-Box. I should be able to continue running my RADAR until the end of time with this little unit
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Post by soundintheround on Nov 15, 2020 0:20:12 GMT -6
You think they will be developing a new Mac pro after just launching one? That already is a pretty damn powerful machine? Only way I see that happening in the next two years is if the total cut of Intel support. Which isn't unlikely...but not very probable This is what I’m talking about: www.macrumors.com/2020/11/02/apple-smaller-mac-pro-apple-silicon/amp/But I don’t know if it will ever come, and if it will replace or be sold alongside the current Mac Pro. My (super uneducated guess) is that they are seeing that many industries, including audio, need something between the Mac mini and Mac Pro and therefore keep the Mac mini not too powerful, and later introduce a much more expensive option that still is way below the bigger Mac Pro. Yeh I was working on an track the other day in the studio....and I came to a complete standstill. If only my Mac Pro was smaller I could finish recording the part and it would be a Killer song! Wait what? Lol. Why is a smaller Mac Pro needed? I totally agree something cheaper / less video oriented / etc would be great... but not sure I understand how a rumor about a smaller Mac Pro means would be good for us? But hey it could be.
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