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Post by mikec on May 18, 2020 16:32:38 GMT -6
I play around with Logic some so I can stay familiar with it, but after 18 years using Pro Tools, I've pretty much switched to Studio One. It has been rock solid for me on a Mac. I really like Mixbus 32c for mixing, but my old Mac mini doesn't handle tracking on it too well due to the CPU usage. I can easily use a 64 buffer on Studio One, but the best I can manage on Mixbus is 128. Hoping that will change with the new computer that's coming.
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Post by notneeson on May 18, 2020 16:43:19 GMT -6
For me, I take my sessions to a variety of studios and they all run Pro Tools so that has a lot of value to me. But, I haven't kept up, I'm still on 10HD. Makes it easy not to get too into plugins!
I did a thing at Francis Ford Coppola's VO room once and they were still running an 001 circa 2014...
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Post by kcatthedog on May 18, 2020 16:54:49 GMT -6
Logic uses utility I/o plug in for hardware inserts, includes ping for rtl: works great.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 17:31:41 GMT -6
Apple’s greedy ways, focus on design over functionality, and appeal to prosumers wounded me and set me back.
Logic became more and more like GarageBand and the two programs are slowly becoming Garagband Lite and GarageBand Pro. All of the GUI changes were workflow changes to me and not for the better.
Final Cut X aka iMovie Pro was a huge slap in the face to me. Trying to kill tape hurt me.
Then the various Mac hardware being defective by design and getting hit with it. White plastic cracking, gpus desoldering, bad ics, the touchbar, it just goes on.
The coup de grace was killing FireWire. I had no reason to buy another Mac to use the hardware I had at the time. I went Windows. It usually doesn’t annoy me as much even if it has audio driver issues. System builds need to be planned and Windows needs to be configured correctly. I’ve thought of going back to Macs but don’t have a good reason to.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 18, 2020 17:36:25 GMT -6
I very much believe that any of the major DAWs still currently on the market can absolutely be used for top notch professional work. And I believe they can all pretty much accomplish the biggest tasks we are faced with doing regularly. Some are faster at certain tasks than others, some are more limited in one capacity vs. others, but for the most part, nobody's doing total voodoo anymore. Or at least, everybody's doing the same kind of voodoo in different ways. Here are my rules: - The "easiest-to-use" DAW is probably the one you're already using.
- If you're generally satisfied with your DAW, and you have regular work, you should probably stick with what you've got.
- If you're dissatisfied with your DAW, why? Stability? Feature set? Speed? Creative stagnation? Sharing projects with colleagues? GUI? A sneaking suspicion that the grass is greener somewhere else? Those are all legit. Explore your options to see which application jives better with your spirit.
- If you try a new DAW, chances are it will take awhile to learn it. You will probably get pissed at it and think both its developers and adherents are insane. It will frustrate you that it takes 4 steps in the new DAW to do what could be done in 1 step in your previous DAW. You will blame the tool.
- If you stick it out, you will likely at some point come to appreciate the different workflow. One day, you will ask, "why didn't I do this sooner?" and you will say, "people who use [my previous DAW] are idiots!"
- If at some point in your use of the new DAW you find yourself back at List Item #3 above, you will then proceed on to List Items 4-6.
Oh, and seriously, this is 2020. Almost every DAW allows you to use Pro Tools key commands if you want to. It's not a big deal.
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Post by thirdeye on May 18, 2020 19:53:47 GMT -6
For me, I take my sessions to a variety of studios and they all run Pro Tools so that has a lot of value to me. But, I haven't kept up, I'm still on 10HD. Makes it easy not to get too into plugins! I did a thing at Francis Ford Coppola's VO room once and they were still running an 001 circa 2014... I thought I was the only one. Still works great for my needs! HD6 in a Magma Chassis here. Only new feature I am really jealous of is folder tracks...
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Post by popmann on May 18, 2020 22:41:00 GMT -6
I've said before that PTHD v10 will be in professional use in 2030...maybe 2040--though not sure how long we can expect the cards themselves to physically live...but, at some point, someone will just build dedicated computers to house the Accel card sets and Control24s. Maybe they officially run whatever version of Windows...maybe they're sold with a Hackintosh drive, user installable, for "troubleshooting"...
In a way, it was kind of king of the recording world when it ended it's life as a commercial venture.
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Post by mattbroiler on May 19, 2020 6:04:46 GMT -6
if you are running windows you might want to check out Cakewalk it's great for free I started out using Cakewalk a long time ago and stayed with it so the familiarity makes it faster and easier for me personally
definitely agree that the "best" daw is going to be the one you are most acquainted with and therefore get the most done with
I am going to spend some more time working with MIxbus 32C as the new version 6 looks to have some good improvements
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Post by Omicron9 on May 19, 2020 9:23:13 GMT -6
Question for Logic owners..... I've been an apple advocate for well over 20 years. I've purchased countless Laptops, Desktops, Towers, iPhones, the whole 9 yards. But in terms of corporate greed and stupidity making me do things I don't want to do....Apple has easily bypassed AVID to be the kings of drama and stupid moves forcing me to do things I don't want to do. For those using Logic, does this cascade over into stupid moves regarding their DAW (Logic)? I hate being FORCED to upgrade at every juncture by Apple. To the point, where I'd almost consider a PC at this point, and I hate Windoze. Please, this is not to start an OS war; it's just one person's opinion/preferences/whatever. I've been on Windows for over 20 years. Two years ago, I tried switching to Mac only to use Logic. I was/am still happy with Windows. Using the Mac was beyond maddening for me. I gave it a year, then I'd had enough. Mostly because of the OS, but Apple's business practices are now borderline criminal IMO. If you've not used Windows 10, I'd recommend you do before declaring that you don't like Windows. I've been using it on three machines since it was released and never had a single crash or hang. Far more stable than Mac OS (again, in my experience only). And far far FAR more usable and user-friendly than Mac OS. Again..... just one person's opinion; not presented as fact. Just posting this as a suggestion to try Windows 10. Kind regards, -09
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 19, 2020 9:30:49 GMT -6
Question for Logic owners..... I've been an apple advocate for well over 20 years. I've purchased countless Laptops, Desktops, Towers, iPhones, the whole 9 yards. But in terms of corporate greed and stupidity making me do things I don't want to do....Apple has easily bypassed AVID to be the kings of drama and stupid moves forcing me to do things I don't want to do. For those using Logic, does this cascade over into stupid moves regarding their DAW (Logic)? I hate being FORCED to upgrade at every juncture by Apple. To the point, where I'd almost consider a PC at this point, and I hate Windoze. Please, this is not to start an OS war; it's just one person's opinion/preferences/whatever. I've been on Windows for over 20 years. Two years ago, I tried switching to Mac only to use Logic. I was/am still happy with Windows. Using the Mac was beyond maddening for me. I gave it a year, then I'd had enough. Mostly because of the OS, but Apple's business practices are now borderline criminal IMO. If you've not used Windows 10, I'd recommend you do before declaring that you don't like Windows. I've been using it on three machines since it was released and never had a single crash or hang. Far more stable than Mac OS (again, in my experience only). And far far FAR more usable and user-friendly than Mac OS. Again..... just one person's opinion; not presented as fact. Just posting this as a suggestion to try Windows 10. Kind regards, -09 I run both using boot camp and I still feel frustrated using Windows. I think we really have to except that choice of software and OS is a matter of choice and familiarity. I also ran PT HD under windows for a number of years.
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Post by Omicron9 on May 19, 2020 9:36:46 GMT -6
ericn,
I think your statement "I think we really have to except that choice of software and OS is a matter of choice and familiarity" carries a lot of weight and truth. But I still can't and won't give my money to Apple, even if I did like their OS, which I don't at all.
Regards, -09
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Post by Guitar on May 19, 2020 9:44:29 GMT -6
You could always switch to Linux. LOL. I tried to get audio running on a Linux computer and it was amusingly awful. None of these audio interfaces and DAW's are really optimized for Linux. Ugly, slow, it's the customizable DIY OS though, you can make it do all kinds of things if you know how to write the code. Also free and open source. Really appealing to the true computer heads out there.
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Post by bradd on May 19, 2020 9:59:07 GMT -6
Question for Logic owners..... I've been an apple advocate for well over 20 years. I've purchased countless Laptops, Desktops, Towers, iPhones, the whole 9 yards. But in terms of corporate greed and stupidity making me do things I don't want to do....Apple has easily bypassed AVID to be the kings of drama and stupid moves forcing me to do things I don't want to do. For those using Logic, does this cascade over into stupid moves regarding their DAW (Logic)? I hate being FORCED to upgrade at every juncture by Apple. To the point, where I'd almost consider a PC at this point, and I hate Windoze. I'm on a 2013 Mac Book Pro that still runs great and I have no plans to update anytime soon. I haven't installed the latest version of Logic or whatever Apple's latest OS is called, but I haven't found Apple's updates to be a problem for the last seven years. I think it's like anything software related. If you stay one OS/DAW version behind the latest, you don't run into problems. I should be able to get at least ten years out of this system and that's the best I will have ever done in terms of longevity.
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Post by Guitar on May 19, 2020 10:08:44 GMT -6
My PC has reached a mature state also. I've had it probably 5 or 6 years and anticipate that many more, most likely. The data is adequately protected (backed up), the parts are all fairly commonplace, and it's still a pretty fast machine for audio work. If the CPU or the OS break, I hopefully have quick solutions for those problems, Macrimum backup of the C: drive with hundreds of pieces of software installed and activated. Video might need a special computer, if I get more serious about that. My last Premier render took 7.5 hours!! I'm not sure if a nice GPU helps there or not. Maybe that's where those multicore monster modern CPU's come in, I don't know. I do need a better CPU cooler, it runs hot with video currently. Audio is nothing compared to what video asks of your system.
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Post by Ward on May 19, 2020 10:25:49 GMT -6
Question for Logic owners..... I've been an apple advocate for well over 20 years. I've purchased countless Laptops, Desktops, Towers, iPhones, the whole 9 yards. But in terms of corporate greed and stupidity making me do things I don't want to do....Apple has easily bypassed AVID to be the kings of drama and stupid moves forcing me to do things I don't want to do. For those using Logic, does this cascade over into stupid moves regarding their DAW (Logic)? I hate being FORCED to upgrade at every juncture by Apple. To the point, where I'd almost consider a PC at this point, and I hate Windoze. Please, this is not to start an OS war; it's just one person's opinion/preferences/whatever. I've been on Windows for over 20 years. Two years ago, I tried switching to Mac only to use Logic. I was/am still happy with Windows. Using the Mac was beyond maddening for me. I gave it a year, then I'd had enough. Mostly because of the OS, but Apple's business practices are now borderline criminal IMO. If you've not used Windows 10, I'd recommend you do before declaring that you don't like Windows. I've been using it on three machines since it was released and never had a single crash or hang. Far more stable than Mac OS (again, in my experience only). And far far FAR more usable and user-friendly than Mac OS. Again..... just one person's opinion; not presented as fact. Just posting this as a suggestion to try Windows 10. Kind regards, -09 Wait a second. . . . did you want to start an OS war or didn't want to start an OS war? Cos your post says let's not, and then you dive right in. It's like throwing a live grenade into a crowd of people and blaming the grenade for folks getting hurt. Doesn't make sense.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 19, 2020 10:32:24 GMT -6
ericn, I think your statement "I think we really have to except that choice of software and OS is a matter of choice and familiarity" carries a lot of weight and truth. But I still can't and won't give my money to Apple, even if I did like their OS, which I don't at all. Regards, -09 I can understand that, and since Apples switch to Intel and as their product became more and more generic I have realized the that the superiority from a support perspective has diminished. It was much easier to support Apple when there was a minimum amount of products and issues were easily addressed. Now it feels like Dell. I’ll admit to bitching about all the card format and processor switches that all led to leaving perfectly good machines having to be retired. Now it’s plans obsolescence or third party work arounds to keep one’s investment updated. Both Windows and OSX are bloated consumer OS’s at this point, I have said for years we should all be pushing developers to a Linux build, but the market doesn’t understand the advantages of a dedicated DAW machine. The other thing that both Windows machine’s and Apple’s have in common is that with a few very expensive exceptions they are not really designed to harness the power of modern CPU’s taking advantage of all their power for any real period of time. Sure these laptop CPU’s have the ability to kick my first Gen Mac Pro that upgraded to 8 core’s of Xenon, but my MP will run hard all day long a modern IMac that hits the same benchmarks won’t. Short of custom builds or buying through someone who is in corporate sales finding a real workstation from Dell, HP, ect. is almost impossible. Then again my primary DAW is still on Be😁
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Post by drbill on May 19, 2020 10:41:53 GMT -6
Please, this is not to start an OS war; it's just one person's opinion/preferences/whatever. I've been on Windows for over 20 years. Two years ago, I tried switching to Mac only to use Logic. I was/am still happy with Windows. Using the Mac was beyond maddening for me. I gave it a year, then I'd had enough. Mostly because of the OS, but Apple's business practices are now borderline criminal IMO. If you've not used Windows 10, I'd recommend you do before declaring that you don't like Windows. I've been using it on three machines since it was released and never had a single crash or hang. Far more stable than Mac OS (again, in my experience only). And far far FAR more usable and user-friendly than Mac OS. Again..... just one person's opinion; not presented as fact. Just posting this as a suggestion to try Windows 10. Kind regards, -09 Wait a second. . . . did you want to start an OS war or didn't want to start an OS war? Cos your post says let's not, and then you dive right in. It's like throwing a live grenade into a crowd of people and blaming the grenade for folks getting hurt. Doesn't make sense. Ha! That's what I was thinking too. But I ASKED for it.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 19, 2020 10:45:25 GMT -6
Question for Logic owners..... I've been an apple advocate for well over 20 years. I've purchased countless Laptops, Desktops, Towers, iPhones, the whole 9 yards. But in terms of corporate greed and stupidity making me do things I don't want to do....Apple has easily bypassed AVID to be the kings of drama and stupid moves forcing me to do things I don't want to do. For those using Logic, does this cascade over into stupid moves regarding their DAW (Logic)? I hate being FORCED to upgrade at every juncture by Apple. To the point, where I'd almost consider a PC at this point, and I hate Windoze. I'm on a 2013 Mac Book Pro that still runs great and I have no plans to update anytime soon. I haven't installed the latest version of Logic or whatever Apple's latest OS is called, but I haven't found Apple's updates to be a problem for the last seven years. I think it's like anything software related. If you stay one OS/DAW version behind the latest, you don't run into problems. I should be able to get at least ten years out of this system and that's the best I will have ever done in terms of longevity. Oh my friend you are are a dreamer, you do realize that a 2011 MBP i7 like mine (3 generations before yours) is no longer supported for OS upgrades! Now what makes this lots of fun is you think, Oh I can still use the thing for email and other basic tasks! Maybe but I can’t log into my bank or the kids school and even iCloud can be funky because I’m using a no longer supported browser. Worse news they don’t cut off one generation at a time, sometimes 2 or 3.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 19, 2020 10:53:39 GMT -6
My PC has reached a mature state also. I've had it probably 5 or 6 years and anticipate that many more, most likely. The data is adequately protected (backed up), the parts are all fairly commonplace, and it's still a pretty fast machine for audio work. If the CPU or the OS break, I hopefully have quick solutions for those problems, Macrimum backup of the C: drive with hundreds of pieces of software installed and activated. Video might need a special computer, if I get more serious about that. My last Premier render took 7.5 hours!! I'm not sure if a nice GPU helps there or not. Maybe that's where those multicore monster modern CPU's come in, I don't know. I do need a better CPU cooler, it runs hot with video currently. Audio is nothing compared to what video asks of your system. Premier does not utilize the GPU as much as Davinci Resolve (or Final Cut). Premier does use the GPU, but not as much.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 19, 2020 10:58:14 GMT -6
I'm on a 2013 Mac Book Pro that still runs great and I have no plans to update anytime soon. I haven't installed the latest version of Logic or whatever Apple's latest OS is called, but I haven't found Apple's updates to be a problem for the last seven years. I think it's like anything software related. If you stay one OS/DAW version behind the latest, you don't run into problems. I should be able to get at least ten years out of this system and that's the best I will have ever done in terms of longevity. Oh my friend you are are a dreamer, you do realize that a 2011 MBP i7 like mine (3 generations before yours) is no longer supported for OS upgrades! Now what makes this lots of fun is you think, Oh I can still use the thing for email and other basic tasks! Maybe but I can’t log into my bank or the kids school and even iCloud can be funky because I’m using a no longer supported browser. Worse news they don’t cut off one generation at a time, sometimes 2 or 3. All true (well Firefox can usually get around the unsupported browser issue), but there's a small part of me that thinks, "well, it's a 9 year old laptop!" I certainly never had a PC laptop last that long.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 19, 2020 11:01:43 GMT -6
ericn, I think your statement "I think we really have to except that choice of software and OS is a matter of choice and familiarity" carries a lot of weight and truth. But I still can't and won't give my money to Apple, even if I did like their OS, which I don't at all. Regards, -09 Apple is certainly guilty of some business practices that do not benefit the consumer. But do you use any software by Adobe?? Or Facebook? Or even Google? We're at a point where everybody's hands are dirty. It's a matter of how much dirt, what kind of dirt, and whether we can accept the trade offs of using products by a particular company.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 19, 2020 11:24:43 GMT -6
My PC has reached a mature state also. I've had it probably 5 or 6 years and anticipate that many more, most likely. The data is adequately protected (backed up), the parts are all fairly commonplace, and it's still a pretty fast machine for audio work. If the CPU or the OS break, I hopefully have quick solutions for those problems, Macrimum backup of the C: drive with hundreds of pieces of software installed and activated. Video might need a special computer, if I get more serious about that. My last Premier render took 7.5 hours!! I'm not sure if a nice GPU helps there or not. Maybe that's where those multicore monster modern CPU's come in, I don't know. I do need a better CPU cooler, it runs hot with video currently. Audio is nothing compared to what video asks of your system. Premier does not utilize the GPU as much as Davinci Resolve (or Final Cut). Premier does use the GPU, but not as much. Absolutely correct, but if I were still building editing machines for a living I would still spec a better GPU with Premier! Plus it’s Adobe, you never know what the next build will require 😁
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Post by the other mark williams on May 19, 2020 11:27:13 GMT -6
Premier does not utilize the GPU as much as Davinci Resolve (or Final Cut). Premier does use the GPU, but not as much. Absolutely correct, but if I were still building editing machines for a living I would still spec a better GPU with Premier! Plus it’s Adobe, you never know what the next build will require 😁 Absolutely - I feel sure Adobe is working on greater GPU utilization as I type this. When they wrote the original code, GPUs were simply not all that powerful: they lagged behind the CPU in profound ways that is not entirely true anymore.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 19, 2020 11:29:26 GMT -6
I've said before that PTHD v10 will be in professional use in 2030...maybe 2040--though not sure how long we can expect the cards themselves to physically live...but, at some point, someone will just build dedicated computers to house the Accel card sets and Control24s. Maybe they officially run whatever version of Windows...maybe they're sold with a Hackintosh drive, user installable, for "troubleshooting"... In a way, it was kind of king of the recording world when it ended it's life as a commercial venture. The problem for a commercial room if your still on HD what do you do when somebody comes in for a mix session who has a rough mix started at home on a later addition of PT and can’t run his favorite plugins? Think it’s not a big deal ? Well I know at least 2 gearpimps who have told me this exact situation has accounted for 70% of their HDX and HD native sales!
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Post by the other mark williams on May 19, 2020 11:31:57 GMT -6
Also, I should say that I have a love/hate relationship with Final Cut Pro X. There are things that I really appreciate about its simplicity, and whether one likes this fact or not, many people who are totally new to NLEs seem to find it much, much easier to learn. I personally find it less intuitive at times, but I'm obviously used to using track-based software (and hardware).
This kind of goes back to my earlier comment about pretty much all DAWs being capable of professional-level work. If excellent, Oscar-winning films can be edited in FCPX (and they can be, and have been), then the problem is not the tool. Whether or not the tool jives with me is the determining factor. Clearly it jives with someone, or the tool would not be successful enough in the marketplace to be sustainable.
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