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Post by Guitar on Jun 4, 2020 8:04:29 GMT -6
A good buddy of mine, punk rock guy, is using a 12 year old computer with Windows XP, and Cubase SX version 3. Never upgraded, never needed to.
If you just need an "8 track machine" on the most basic level, there's really no need for the fancy stuff most of us use.
I try to keep that in mind when I'm talking people that don't have expensive gear.
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Post by chessparov on Jun 4, 2020 11:14:40 GMT -6
A good buddy of mine, punk rock guy, is using a 12 year old computer with Windows XP, and Cubase SX version 3. Never upgraded, never needed to. If you just need an "8 track machine" on the most basic level, there's really no need for the fancy stuff most of us use. I try to keep that in mind when I'm talking people that don't have expensive gear. And I thought I was retro stylin' with an 11 year old PC, and Windows 7! Chris
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Post by bombadil on Jun 5, 2020 15:18:24 GMT -6
if you can figure out a way to demo it without messing with your working system the new Cakewalk by Bandlab is really good for a free daw. You would not have to adapt or change your way of working very much. actually now that I think of it - you can install and run the new version alongside your existing cakewalk and go back and forth between them, it installs to a slightly different directory and does not mess with the old versions. I have one system still on windows 7 but no problem running Cakewalk on windows 10 it's more that that operating system needs a lot of tweaking (ie disabling background activity/services) to work better overall and for audio. Also getting into Mixbus 32c v6 here it's very cool I just need to put in a lot more time to get better with it. Bandlab is the non-pro audio Chinese company that bought Cakewalk for a song after Gibson discontinued it. They've made it freeware, so I wonder where their profit comes from. Maybe from selling your personal data to the Chinese government?
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Post by Ward on Jun 7, 2020 10:53:15 GMT -6
if you can figure out a way to demo it without messing with your working system the new Cakewalk by Bandlab is really good for a free daw. You would not have to adapt or change your way of working very much. actually now that I think of it - you can install and run the new version alongside your existing cakewalk and go back and forth between them, it installs to a slightly different directory and does not mess with the old versions. I have one system still on windows 7 but no problem running Cakewalk on windows 10 it's more that that operating system needs a lot of tweaking (ie disabling background activity/services) to work better overall and for audio. Also getting into Mixbus 32c v6 here it's very cool I just need to put in a lot more time to get better with it. Bandlab is the non-pro audio Chinese company that bought Cakewalk for a song after Gibson discontinued it. They've made it freeware, so I wonder where their profit comes from. Maybe from selling your personal data to the Chinese government? Maybe . . . It will send copies of your music to the CCP who will then use it to take over the music business and take the joy, creativity and profitability out of it! oh wait . . . too late . . .
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Post by Guitar on Jun 7, 2020 11:58:04 GMT -6
I know Chinese are heavily involved in product manufacture, but I'm not really sure what their art/music economy looks like. There's a huge language barrier. Maybe this is too off topic of the thread about DAW's.
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Post by mattbroiler on Jun 7, 2020 13:43:28 GMT -6
what I recall from the time it was happening is that the Bandlab people own a large music retail chain in SE Asia but it's not a company that is well known elsewhere (I don't remember the name). They have improved on the software quite a bit since taking it over so nothing bad about that. It may not be profitable but the current software is much more stable than their final release of Sonar platinum.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 7, 2020 14:27:59 GMT -6
My understanding is that most electronic parts are now made in China.
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Post by christopher on Jun 7, 2020 15:30:01 GMT -6
Years ago a client/friend used sonar 10 and wanted to do some overdubs so he installed and we did it. It was really, really cool! So I decided to try tracking a demo with real drums/ overdubs etc. Tracking and overdubs seemed to be fine, a little slow near the last overdubs. However mixing turned into a crawl, impossible to mix or do anything. The project was stuck, and there was no way out.. I can’t remember why but it wasn’t possible to load the wavs into another program. It wasn’t possible to export the whole project either for some reason. Only way was print each track one by one. I had to tell the client, it was a nightmare. Instead of re-tracking for free, he opted to pay me to render each track. Took almost 40 hours to get the tracks out.
Reaper never had that problem.. all wavs, overdubs, punches, are BWF timestamped and fly to correct place in PT.
(UPDATE: Don't record in Sonar with playlists/lanes for multiple takes. That's what it was. The artist needed many takes for each track, so 20 track project easily had 60-100+ actual takes hidden in lanes.. they each had to be selected and printed one by one)
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Post by christopher on Jun 11, 2020 11:00:37 GMT -6
I have people asking for my help, and they are on Logic, so I downloaded the Logic Pro X 10.5 demo. I had to upgrade my 2015 mbp to Mohave. Took a while to install, but its up and running. So I did a zoom session and showed them some simple things using the stock compressors and etc.
One thing I found very interesting this morning as I look around: It includes a demo project of Billie Eilish "Ocean Eyes". I downloaded that and took a look around, and it sounds exactly like the release. And does have the piles of vocal overdubs. What is funny though: not too many plugins, and where they are using them everything is using the stock Logic plugins. ZERO AFTERMARKET PLUGINS anywhere. The built in plugins do emulate everything you normally want though, so maybe its true? Seems pretty convenient for Apple to me.. what do you guys think?
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Post by chessparov on Jun 11, 2020 11:04:36 GMT -6
Other than it's been a long road, from Billie Holiday, to Billie Eilish? IMHO Logic offers a ton of value. I like their Plugs, when I've listened/hung out with a good Buddy who's exclusively Logic now. Chris
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 11, 2020 11:08:33 GMT -6
I probably have already said this, but I’m moving completely to Luna as soon as it’s fleshed out. Already mixing everything in it.
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Post by mikec on Jun 11, 2020 12:24:14 GMT -6
I’m loving Luna and have pretty much switched to it exclusively. The aesthetics and workflow just work for me. If I need to do anything outside of it, I just export the file, edit it in studio one and import it back. Even though I moved away from Pro Tools after over 15 years of using it, I never really bonded with any other DAWs until I tried Luna. It’s nice that they just added auto scroll. I also like that my owned UAD plugins are now separated from all UAD plugins.
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Post by Ward on Jun 11, 2020 15:23:39 GMT -6
I probably have already said this, but I’m moving completely to Luna as soon as it’s fleshed out. Already mixing everything in it. Will it work with all the Avid - pro tools hardware or is it exclusive to the UAD stuff? Also, are only UAD plugz allowed?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 11, 2020 16:08:10 GMT -6
I probably have already said this, but I’m moving completely to Luna as soon as it’s fleshed out. Already mixing everything in it. Will it work with all the Avid - pro tools hardware or is it exclusive to the UAD stuff? Also, are only UAD plugz allowed? Gotta have one of the Apollos. But yes - third party plugs are AU. Key commands are almost all the same as PT.
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Post by popmann on Jun 11, 2020 16:33:46 GMT -6
I probably have already said this, but I’m moving completely to Luna as soon as it’s fleshed out. Already mixing everything in it. Will it work with all the Avid - pro tools hardware or is it exclusive to the UAD stuff? Also, are only UAD plugz allowed? It will not work with Avid hardware....or anyone else's hardware. It's a closed system. That's ACTUALLY the attraction, IMO. There's NO way to provide the workflow it does without the DSP/IO hardware maker ALSO making the DAW. Re: third party plug ins....that's where they're really twisting the screw for NO technical reason. The buffer is locked at 128 samples. So, yes--you can run AUs....however many you can run at 128 samples. So, while it's many other factors dependent, basically between 1/4th and 1/16th the amount of native DSP that you actually HAVE in a native app. So, functionally--no, you have to run UAD except some special occasion. On the VI front, want to run Spitfire's playable strings? Can't. At all. Because they require the LINEAR TIME in their input scripting. I saw a piano library the other day list their buffer requirement for the Kontakt scripting--something I'd never seen before in a VI spec. I was excited about the release. That got me to check the "ignore LUNA" box.
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Post by popmann on Jun 11, 2020 16:53:45 GMT -6
But, on the positive side, it will make the ARM transition easier not having to update any native plug ins. Being this close, LUNA is no doubt already coded for ARM compatibility....plug ins have no conversion, since they don't currently run on the intel CPU....so, if you're married to Apple, it will make that transition easier.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jun 11, 2020 17:24:48 GMT -6
I also like that my owned UAD plugins are now separated from all UAD plugins. That is a long overdue, great feature. I don't use LUNA but that sure would be cool to take advantage of.
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Post by drbill on Jun 11, 2020 22:02:05 GMT -6
Closed hardware? Everyone's praising that now?? LOL 6 months ago everyone was cursing Avid about that exact thing. LOL
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Post by christopher on Jun 11, 2020 22:53:46 GMT -6
The thing that will always get under my skin a bit is Avid made significant money off selling the dream to the prosumer crowd, while knowing they are chopped off at the knees unless they know exactly all the ins and outs. Not just Avid, it is all the companies that did the same thing, frustrating. Why? Because there are studios who dump 1/4 million into making the best possible place for people to record and can't get anyone to show up. And all the musicians think its a waste.. because these companies are happy to promote the "all you need is a mac" fantasy. Which is maybe true, but only if you are recording Whitney or MJ. For the rest of the world, that 250,000 dollar studio with engineer would help quite a bit
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Post by popmann on Jun 12, 2020 14:59:58 GMT -6
Closed hardware? Everyone's praising that now?? LOL 6 months ago everyone was cursing Avid about that exact thing. LOL I wasn't. I have always praised the workflow of embedded systems for audio production. Avid hardware systems have ALWAYS been industry standard AND their native software is functional GARBAGE relative to competition. The ONLY way to get the workflow that you enjoy is for the DAW maker to provide hardware DSP AND write the DAW. The primary difference in an Avid HDX system from a Apollo+UAD plug ins+DAW is that they can't automatically handle the rerouting from the hardware cue mixer to the native playback mixer like Avid does. Using LUNA solves that. So, Apollo+UAD plugs+LUNA….is functionally a small HDX system for the purpose of band tracking/mixing sized IO. ...and unlike Avid's HDX, it will work on an old MacBook....or a new imac...otherwise basically most Thunderbolt Macs of the last decade. HDX requires a MacPro or Windows workstation now. Or obviously a third party f'd chassis that I'm not sure they fully support.
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Post by Ward on Jun 12, 2020 15:31:04 GMT -6
Closed hardware? Everyone's praising that now?? LOL 6 months ago everyone was cursing Avid about that exact thing. LOL I wasn't. I have always praised the workflow of embedded systems for audio production. Avid hardware systems have ALWAYS been industry standard AND their native software is functional GARBAGE relative to competition. The ONLY way to get the workflow that you enjoy is for the DAW maker to provide hardware DSP AND write the DAW. The primary difference in an Avid HDX system from a Apollo+UAD plug ins+DAW is that they can't automatically handle the rerouting from the hardware cue mixer to the native playback mixer like Avid does. Using LUNA solves that. So, Apollo+UAD plugs+LUNA….is functionally a small HDX system for the purpose of band tracking/mixing sized IO. ...and unlike Avid's HDX, it will work on an old MacBook....or a new imac...otherwise basically most Thunderbolt Macs of the last decade. HDX requires a MacPro or Windows workstation now. Or obviously a third party f'd chassis that I'm not sure they fully support. I always enjoy your posts!
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Post by Guitar on Jun 12, 2020 15:59:23 GMT -6
Agreed, thanks to popmann for the messages.
I don't know if anyone could "dumb it down" for the average reader.
What is the main advantage of LUNA and HDX? Is it a realtime cue mix with plugin/DSP audio?
What in simple audio engineer terms is the user gaining from these expensive systems?
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Post by cyrano on Jun 12, 2020 17:17:09 GMT -6
Bandlab is the non-pro audio Chinese company that bought Cakewalk for a song after Gibson discontinued it. They've made it freeware, so I wonder where their profit comes from. Maybe from selling your personal data to the Chinese government? Maybe . . . It will send copies of your music to the CCP who will then use it to take over the music business and take the joy, creativity and profitability out of it! oh wait . . . too late . . . Bandlab isn't Chinese. It's Malayan. Whether it's a "Pro" company is kinda irrelevant. They've got a lot more programmers working on Cakewalk than Avid has on Protools... They are about the only company heavily investing in audio software atm.
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Post by drbill on Jun 12, 2020 20:10:48 GMT -6
Luna will have to have a very long burn in period over multiple Apple gaffes and OS's for me to seriously even consider it. It may be great. But it's got to kill a HDX2 system, be able to easily handle 120+ i/o, etc. before I'd consider it. And the Apollo interfaces (if that's what you have to use) would need a refresh and step up. Just IMHO of course.
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Post by sirthought on Jun 12, 2020 21:17:53 GMT -6
One thing I found very interesting this morning as I look around: It includes a demo project of Billie Eilish "Ocean Eyes". I downloaded that and took a look around, and it sounds exactly like the release. And does have the piles of vocal overdubs. What is funny though: not too many plugins, and where they are using them everything is using the stock Logic plugins. ZERO AFTERMARKET PLUGINS anywhere. The built in plugins do emulate everything you normally want though, so maybe its true? Seems pretty convenient for Apple to me.. what do you guys think? Her brother Finneas O'Connell wrote and produced that. They did the whole tune because a teacher at the dance school they both attended asked them for some music to use at a recital. It started everything for them. Logic is his DAW and he said he used all stock instruments and plugs on that song. So it's indeed pretty much how he produced it. It's both simple in structure, yet advanced in techniques used for a guy who is self taught. Really shows off Logic well. I'm guessing someone has changed colors and cleaned up some organization. He does use third party instruments and plugs, but I think both he and Billie use Logic exclusively. Apple shares a demo project with bigger updates, with the last one being Beck's song Colors. Back with Logic 9 they had a Lilly Alan song. Both of those were produced by Greg Kurstin, who is a long time Logic user. However, the Beck song must have been tracked in several different places with different DAWs. I'm guessing processing was not all stock, like it shows in the Logic demo. Lots of tracks (including almost all of the drums/percussion) is MIDI performed with the sampler plugin. Looking at the sample file titles you can see they lean on classic analog gear, vintage keyboards, and samples of their own drum kits. It fun to look at the stock reverb settings they use for the Beck tune. I know Greg and Beck work with Darrell Thorp a lot and I watched a Pure Mix video with Darrell mixing and he creates a verb with UAD Lexicon 224 and the settings are pretty much dead on what's used in Logic's Chroma Verb preset for Colors. I'm guessing it's a go-to setting he uses. It sounds great in both plugins, BTW.
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