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Post by Guitar on Apr 25, 2020 16:59:17 GMT -6
My hot take was the same on the WA84, "wow." I did send them back after a few days of in depth listening.
Chad do you know if Peluso's transformers are Asian? I think they are quite good. But I'm not specifically sure what part of the globe they are wound on.
That was a very eye opening post, and I think fair enough. I was really surprised that Advanced Audio didn't design the circuits that he knows so well!
It's nice to see behind the curtain so thanks for popping out of there like the Wizard of Oz. No not Wiz in Oz, haha.
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Post by cdkelly on Apr 25, 2020 17:48:22 GMT -6
As a sidenote... Is some of this why the low end of the WA-87, sounds different than a vintage 87 to me? Gwlee has one, and it sounds very nice to my ear-with his sing'n & playn'. Also there were some other good vocal clips made with it, compared to the GAP version of the Sony C800G. Hey if you can KH hot rod, a U87ai... Then I figure you can do something similar with the WA-87. Thanks, Chris I agree the WA-87 is a bit more 'vanilla' than a real U87; of course a real 87 is 3 grand on a good day... so that's something to consider also. It lacks some of the depth and richness of the low end, and lacks that 'sizzle' of the upper mids/lower top end. It's not a bad sounding mic at all; but its not an 87. It's just a very vanilla, useful project studio mic. It was designed in Asia and based around a very different FET than the venerable 2N3819, which (to Warm's defense and to mine, since I was helping develop at that time) was actually long out of production at the time and so there may have been little choice in the matter (it has since then been recently re-issued by Central Semiconductor, at least in limited quantity, and I am initially very impressed with the new production FETs). When you're making 1000 pcs of something and expecting it to be a big seller, rounding up a NOS part is almost out of the question, and just not good business.... because what do you do on the next run? I decided not to offer a mod for that product because it would have required a new set of populated boards... basically, keep the xfrmr and capsule, and change out the boards, to make it an historically accurate 87 circuit. that's just too expensive to do for the small differential, esp. when the mic, as-is, is quite usable in the project studio market. not economical... so I didn't want to go there. but I looked into it, I did a small number of them as a science experiment with very positive results; but that's how it would have to be done. It's just too expensive. There's a few tweaks that can be done on the cheap, just mainly that make the mic more rugged. Some of the 1 gig ohm thick film resistors in the high-z section are very fragile and come undone often, changing out them to some name brand thin film resistors and some of the caps, and doing really solid work, will make the mic a little more rugged and solid. I've played around with it. but the 'real mod' would be a total board replacement.
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Post by cdkelly on Apr 25, 2020 18:23:28 GMT -6
My hot take was the same on the WA84, "wow." I did send them back after a few days of in depth listening. Chad do you know if Peluso's transformers are Asian? I think they are quite good. But I'm not specifically sure what part of the globe they are wound on. That was a very eye opening post, and I think fair enough. I was really surprised that Advanced Audio didn't design the circuits that he knows so well! It's nice to see behind the curtain so thanks for popping out of there like the Wizard of Oz. No not Wiz in Oz, haha. Thanks. To be fair, I do think that AA (and Warm) exert some influence over the design of the boards. They can say 'change this, now change that, I didn't like that, do this differently, use this part, etc.'. So there is certainly influence, and that was my work experience with the latter; but influence is not design, and the back and forth can be imminently frustrating. Language barriers and other forces at play, and the time without a product to sell costing money. At some point, you have to 'call it' and say its as close as you're going to get. And influence can sometimes be good enough... so I didn't mean to be overly critical. It's always tough to choose your words on the forums, esp for me. There's a lot to say, its obviously a subject I am too passionate about; but also I don't want to cause any harm... Peluso originally used Cinemag on most of his mics, once upon a very long time ago. Cinemag did some of the original transfomer R&D for him, and those parts were fantastic. I don't know what happened with that arrangement and it may have simply been that Cinemag was too expensive for what he was trying to do; but that's unfortunate. Those parts were great. However, I am told that they use Tamura (Japan) for at least some of the products today... and if so, then yes that's Asian but that's high end Asian and you'd be in good hands to have those, actually. Treat that simply as rumor and legend though, because that's just what I've heard thru the grapevine. Tamura are mostly a power, telecom, and industrial transformer company. They don't even list pro audio application transformers on their website; so if they are doing them, it is purely custom work. But if so, good. Tamura are more than capable of doing high quality parts. On a totally side rant, I really just wish EVERYONE would get over the secrecy stuff and just show their wares. We live in an information age. People can find out this stuff easily. If you put an audio transformer in my hand, I can usually tell you where it was made within seconds, just because it's part of what I do. I first got a glimpse of this in my earlier career at PreSonus, where I worked for 15 years prior to Warm, Signal Art, or United. (and no disrespect intended to them or any brand either, I'm just illustrating a story here, OK) Many eons ago, we brought in Cinemag input transformers for the front end of the ADL600 preamp. Huge, $80 parts potted in beautiful, mu metal cans.. parts that you should be proud to use and boast from highest peaks with a loud bullhorn that you are using. It was not only great sounding, but was pure marketing gold that the marketing folks could have weaponized to its fullest potential. Did we do that? No. Not at first. We did later, reluctantly, because the word got out on the internet so we 'gave up' on containing it, but never fully exploited it either. For the first few years, we had a guy who literally sat at a stationary belt sander and sanded off the beautiful red Cinemag silkscreen from the can and affixed the cheap white generic PreSonus sticker over the top, which was printed on the office copier using sticker paper from Office Depot down the road. We took a gold brick and essentially disguised it as something not of value. Did it for years. Why? well, one reason is that if you never divulge your sources then you are free to change suppliers at a moment's notice when a better deal or a problem comes along, etc. Then you don't have to change any literature, or tell anyone... there's reasons. and I do get those reasons. But I would like to make the case that the value in promoting a respected part outweighs any of the other hypothetical downsides. I don't view it as 'handcuffing you to a brand'. I view it as forging a real relationship and partnership that you build over time for mutual benefit. It's worth it! Heck, you literally cannot buy a PC motherboard today without it boasting all over the box about the 'Japanese capacitors' inside or a car stereo that doesn't talk about the specific MOSFET drivers it uses. Other industries have figured out something in marketing that pro audio still seems to struggle with, and it mystifies me, and many mic companies seem to be the most secretive of all. Again, not meant to point at any one brand or thing; just an observation that I hope folks will give a bit of thought to. CK
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Post by chessparov on Apr 25, 2020 19:36:40 GMT -6
We prefer more detailed posts Chad! Just kidding you, thanks so much. Chris
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Post by Guitar on Apr 25, 2020 19:38:04 GMT -6
Thanks chad. I'm eating so much popcorn right now you wouldn't believe it. These posts are pure gold (unbranded.)
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 25, 2020 21:20:08 GMT -6
My hot take was the same on the WA84, "wow." I did send them back after a few days of in depth listening. Chad do you know if Peluso's transformers are Asian? I think they are quite good. But I'm not specifically sure what part of the globe they are wound on. That was a very eye opening post, and I think fair enough. I was really surprised that Advanced Audio didn't design the circuits that he knows so well! It's nice to see behind the curtain so thanks for popping out of there like the Wizard of Oz. No not Wiz in Oz, haha. Thanks. To be fair, I do think that AA (and Warm) exert some influence over the design of the boards. They can say 'change this, now change that, I didn't like that, do this differently, use this part, etc.'. So there is certainly influence, and that was my work experience with the latter; but influence is not design, and the back and forth can be imminently frustrating. Language barriers and other forces at play, and the time without a product to sell costing money. At some point, you have to 'call it' and say its as close as you're going to get. And influence can sometimes be good enough... so I didn't mean to be overly critical. It's always tough to choose your words on the forums, esp for me. There's a lot to say, its obviously a subject I am too passionate about; but also I don't want to cause any harm... Peluso originally used Cinemag on most of his mics, once upon a very long time ago. Cinemag did some of the original transfomer R&D for him, and those parts were fantastic. I don't know what happened with that arrangement and it may have simply been that Cinemag was too expensive for what he was trying to do; but that's unfortunate. Those parts were great. However, I am told that they use Tamura (Japan) for at least some of the products today... and if so, then yes that's Asian but that's high end Asian and you'd be in good hands to have those, actually. Treat that simply as rumor and legend though, because that's just what I've heard thru the grapevine. Tamura are mostly a power, telecom, and industrial transformer company. They don't even list pro audio application transformers on their website; so if they are doing them, it is purely custom work. But if so, good. Tamura are more than capable of doing high quality parts. On a totally side rant, I really just wish EVERYONE would get over the secrecy stuff and just show their wares. We live in an information age. People can find out this stuff easily. If you put an audio transformer in my hand, I can usually tell you where it was made within seconds, just because it's part of what I do. I first got a glimpse of this in my earlier career at PreSonus, where I worked for 15 years prior to Warm, Signal Art, or United. (and no disrespect intended to them or any brand either, I'm just illustrating a story here, OK) Many eons ago, we brought in Cinemag input transformers for the front end of the ADL600 preamp. Huge, $80 parts potted in beautiful, mu metal cans.. parts that you should be proud to use and boast from highest peaks with a loud bullhorn that you are using. It was not only great sounding, but was pure marketing gold that the marketing folks could have weaponized to its fullest potential. Did we do that? No. Not at first. We did later, reluctantly, because the word got out on the internet so we 'gave up' on containing it, but never fully exploited it either. For the first few years, we had a guy who literally sat at a stationary belt sander and sanded off the beautiful red Cinemag silkscreen from the can and affixed the cheap white generic PreSonus sticker over the top, which was printed on the office copier using sticker paper from Office Depot down the road. We took a gold brick and essentially disguised it as something not of value. Did it for years. Why? well, one reason is that if you never divulge your sources then you are free to change suppliers at a moment's notice when a better deal or a problem comes along, etc. Then you don't have to change any literature, or tell anyone... there's reasons. and I do get those reasons. But I would like to make the case that the value in promoting a respected part outweighs any of the other hypothetical downsides. I don't view it as 'handcuffing you to a brand'. I view it as forging a real relationship and partnership that you build over time for mutual benefit. It's worth it! Heck, you literally cannot buy a PC motherboard today without it boasting all over the box about the 'Japanese capacitors' inside or a car stereo that doesn't talk about the specific MOSFET drivers it uses. Other industries have figured out something in marketing that pro audio still seems to struggle with, and it mystifies me, and many mic companies seem to be the most secretive of all. Again, not meant to point at any one brand or thing; just an observation that I hope folks will give a bit of thought to. CK Chad I see your point but I think many have found over the years that if you tie yourself to a certain part it can bite you in the ass if and when circumstances change. Look at the whole Radial JDI Jensen substitution situation. Now for somebody like you who is building in small quantities it’s not a problem, but it can be a problem. Now the other thing is when the public isn’t all that well educated about a brand, example the audiophile world and “ Alps” pots. Few realize that besides the above average sealed pots, Alps has produced some pretty blah budget series as well.
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Post by cdkelly on Apr 25, 2020 23:40:10 GMT -6
Thanks. To be fair, I do think that AA (and Warm) exert some influence over the design of the boards. They can say 'change this, now change that, I didn't like that, do this differently, use this part, etc.'. So there is certainly influence, and that was my work experience with the latter; but influence is not design, and the back and forth can be imminently frustrating. Language barriers and other forces at play, and the time without a product to sell costing money. At some point, you have to 'call it' and say its as close as you're going to get. And influence can sometimes be good enough... so I didn't mean to be overly critical. It's always tough to choose your words on the forums, esp for me. There's a lot to say, its obviously a subject I am too passionate about; but also I don't want to cause any harm... Peluso originally used Cinemag on most of his mics, once upon a very long time ago. Cinemag did some of the original transfomer R&D for him, and those parts were fantastic. I don't know what happened with that arrangement and it may have simply been that Cinemag was too expensive for what he was trying to do; but that's unfortunate. Those parts were great. However, I am told that they use Tamura (Japan) for at least some of the products today... and if so, then yes that's Asian but that's high end Asian and you'd be in good hands to have those, actually. Treat that simply as rumor and legend though, because that's just what I've heard thru the grapevine. Tamura are mostly a power, telecom, and industrial transformer company. They don't even list pro audio application transformers on their website; so if they are doing them, it is purely custom work. But if so, good. Tamura are more than capable of doing high quality parts. On a totally side rant, I really just wish EVERYONE would get over the secrecy stuff and just show their wares. We live in an information age. People can find out this stuff easily. If you put an audio transformer in my hand, I can usually tell you where it was made within seconds, just because it's part of what I do. I first got a glimpse of this in my earlier career at PreSonus, where I worked for 15 years prior to Warm, Signal Art, or United. (and no disrespect intended to them or any brand either, I'm just illustrating a story here, OK) Many eons ago, we brought in Cinemag input transformers for the front end of the ADL600 preamp. Huge, $80 parts potted in beautiful, mu metal cans.. parts that you should be proud to use and boast from highest peaks with a loud bullhorn that you are using. It was not only great sounding, but was pure marketing gold that the marketing folks could have weaponized to its fullest potential. Did we do that? No. Not at first. We did later, reluctantly, because the word got out on the internet so we 'gave up' on containing it, but never fully exploited it either. For the first few years, we had a guy who literally sat at a stationary belt sander and sanded off the beautiful red Cinemag silkscreen from the can and affixed the cheap white generic PreSonus sticker over the top, which was printed on the office copier using sticker paper from Office Depot down the road. We took a gold brick and essentially disguised it as something not of value. Did it for years. Why? well, one reason is that if you never divulge your sources then you are free to change suppliers at a moment's notice when a better deal or a problem comes along, etc. Then you don't have to change any literature, or tell anyone... there's reasons. and I do get those reasons. But I would like to make the case that the value in promoting a respected part outweighs any of the other hypothetical downsides. I don't view it as 'handcuffing you to a brand'. I view it as forging a real relationship and partnership that you build over time for mutual benefit. It's worth it! Heck, you literally cannot buy a PC motherboard today without it boasting all over the box about the 'Japanese capacitors' inside or a car stereo that doesn't talk about the specific MOSFET drivers it uses. Other industries have figured out something in marketing that pro audio still seems to struggle with, and it mystifies me, and many mic companies seem to be the most secretive of all. Again, not meant to point at any one brand or thing; just an observation that I hope folks will give a bit of thought to. CK Chad I see your point but I think many have found over the years that if you tie yourself to a certain part it can bite you in the ass if and when circumstances change. Look at the whole Radial JDI Jensen substitution situation. Now for somebody like you who is building in small quantities it’s not a problem, but it can be a problem. Now the other thing is when the public isn’t all that well educated about a brand, example the audiophile world and “ Alps” pots. Few realize that besides the above average sealed pots, Alps has produced some pretty blah budget series as well. You're right.. I mean, there's always that downside. I remember the issues Radial had with keeping Jensens in supply, even after acquiring controlling interest of the company for that very purpose. I think for some time there were even Radial boxes with transformer supplied by Cinemag (Jensen's arch rival, LOL) bearing the Jensen name, and then perhaps an overseas part, not sure. I don't know all the details; but know it was an ongoing soap opera for sure. I did also fail to mention that maybe my former employer (PreSonus) was influenced its own Jensen experience many years prior, which affected their thought process. The earliest preamp line (MP20, M80, VXP) was based on the Deane Jensen 'twin servo' schematic and used Jensens in the beginning. When the supply issues came to bear with Jensen (even though this is still debated... Jensen claim there was no supply issue, while my former bosses claimed there was. I do know there were units waiting to be populated sans transformers, sitting around... but the truth is probably somewhere in the middle), they wound up moving to an imported transformer. but I also know that the decision cost us in terms of reputation. I tend to fear customers have been over-sold on things for so many years that they become jaded and assume the worst. And so many times, it winds up being true. We definitely took a hit by ceasing the use of a $40 Jensen and substituting it with a $10 Elytone part that was not as good (let's be honest), and never really adequately explaining that situation to the public. Just tried to quietly 'keep on trucking' with the same product and hope no one notices. To me, that experience in the 90's was kind of a live-and-learn moment because it is just one of those things in my personal box of 'things I will never do', because I saw what happened. When people did get clued into it finally, they were upset. We had people demand we upgrade their preamp back to Jensens. In a couple cases, we actually did, because we'd failed to update all the sales literature and packaging in time. But I also think this is sort of brand-specific in terms of whom you are dealing with. Jensen may have given partners legitimate reasons to worry over the years (I understand things are running nicely today). Cinemag, at least under David Geren's leadership, have shown themselves to be really resilient. They have contingency plans and mechanisms in place to try to handle work overflow and bad situations what not. I know, even right now under Covid-19 restrictions, they are still operating as best they can under limited capacity and getting crucial stuff out. I have wondered if they have a good succession plan in place for when David retires; but other than that, I feel pretty confident in proverbially 'tying myself' to the brand on a product or two. I think I'm more likely to have issues than they are. LOL And I'd say the same for AMI. I've seen Dennis really take the reigns from his friend and mentor, the late Oliver Archut, and successfully run that company now for more than 5 years. He even spearheaded their move to Washington state (with barely minimal shut down time) and opened the company up to be able to take on more clients and more employees, just updated the website, is finally about to start re-issuing more of Oliver's hardware designs, etc. Probably a better business minded guy than Oliver was. I feel they're another company that have more than shown themselves to be able to manage the storm and not drop the ball for their clients. So maybe its all in whom you choose to partner up with, I guess...
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Post by Guitar on Apr 26, 2020 11:54:48 GMT -6
I'm really glad to see AMI has a new website, I'll have to try ordering from them again. That's good to hear that they are operating well after all the big changes.
I used to own a Radial JDI Duplex with the Jensen transformers, I remember the big scandal. The funny part to me is I thought the Pro D2 sounded even better on e-piano, with the Eclipse transformers! People compliment my piano sound, lay people. The Jensen transformer is really good for getting an aggressive bass guitar tone though. I'd prefer the J48 for general use bass recording. It's closer to my Wolfboxes, somehow, even though it's active. You would think the JDI would be closer. Apparently Dean Jensen was very impressed with the Triad transformers many decades ago, according to Ed Wolfrum's .pdf
Cinemag and David have been a joy to order from in my small potatoes experience. Their prices are so good, compared to some of the competition. I love Cinemag transformers.
It seems like transformers are some of the hardest things for bigger companies to source. I know CAPI had a saga a while back, I don't know the details so I'm not going to postulate. They came up with another input transformer I believe.
My respect to people earning their livings from these types of work.
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Post by cdkelly on Apr 26, 2020 14:30:23 GMT -6
I'm really glad to see AMI has a new website, I'll have to try ordering from them again. That's good to hear that they are operating well after all the big changes. I used to own a Radial JDI Duplex with the Jensen transformers, I remember the big scandal. The funny part to me is I thought the Pro D2 sounded even better on e-piano, with the Eclipse transformers! People compliment my piano sound, lay people. The Jensen transformer is really good for getting an aggressive bass guitar tone though. I'd prefer the J48 for general use bass recording. It's closer to my Wolfboxes, somehow, even though it's active. You would think the JDI would be closer. Apparently Dean Jensen was very impressed with the Triad transformers many decades ago, according to Ed Wolfrum's .pdf Cinemag and David have been a joy to order from in my small potatoes experience. Their prices are so good, compared to some of the competition. I love Cinemag transformers. It seems like transformers are some of the hardest things for bigger companies to source. I know CAPI had a saga a while back, I don't know the details so I'm not going to postulate. They came up with another input transformer I believe. My respect to people earning their livings from these types of work. Yep, true. I am reading into the Eclipse/Jensen stuff now. Interesting. I had only known of one side of it because I knew that Cinemag were somehow maybe involved, if just as a consultant or who knows. There doesn't seem to be any company information about Eclipse on the net, and I'd never heard of them outside of what I'm reading now. I owned one of the original ReAmps and that transformer, I think, was made by Altran (who also do work for Burl, UA, Warm, and lots of other brands). They are good at cloning parts. So I would venture to guess that Eclipse is a 'brand' and not a company, from what it looks like. Altran manufacture other 'brands' of transformers as well... Ed Anderson, etc... some that I won't name out of respect. It's a shame that Radial were not able to meet their supply needs with Jensen, even after acquiring controlling interest of the company for that very reason. That says something... Of course, it's also worth noting that when you 'own' a brand, then you can declare that anything at that point is a 'Jensen' and be legally within your right to do so. I am curious why they did not do that, and I do at least think it is more noble to 'not' do that so that the brand identity is not polluted. The Behringer situation comes to mind with regard to 'Midas Transformers' in their brand's hardware (Midas have never made transformers, LOL) and 'Midas powered preamps' in Behringer's digital boards (which do NOT have Midas preamps) LOL Poor Midas got prostituted to the maximum after their acquisition. Yeah, I did seem to get the impression that Jeff had to sort of take the reigns on his transformer supply after having supply issues with maybe Cinemag and the Ed Anderson parts... and good for him. He knows how a good transformer should be made and I think he's having them made right. I think they're actually a tad better than the Ed Anderson. I think he has to make some things with Cinemag out of historical accuracy; but the more he can bring over under his control, the better, I imagine. Even David Geren has told me that Altran can copy some of his parts perfectly, to the point that they're pretty much interchangeable. I know some of the larger clients like WA sort of 'suck all the oxygen out of the room' in regards to keeping suppliers like Cinemag tied up for long periods of time, and I know that's affected CAPI and many other little guys, including me to some degree. It's funny, and maybe a bit of karma because I've now seen it from both ends. When I was at WA, we became the first customer in Cinemag's history to receive in xfrmrs on a pallet by special truck... we bought that many. and I had Jeff and Eric Heiserman and others kind of razzle me at the trade shows about keeping Cinemag too tied up and messing them up... haha I don't remember if I fully got it then, but i certainly do now, now that I am that little guy who may have to wait a bit. haha life comes full circle.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 26, 2020 14:36:52 GMT -6
I have a Midas DM16 here, it's a great cheap mixer. It's a direct 1:1 ripoff of the layout of an old Soundcraft that I found. But I like it better than the Mackie VLZ4 which was 3 times more expensive.
I think the Midas 500 series EQ "might" have been related to actual old Midas gear but I'm not sure at all. It was a good clean four band EQ. They used a VTX transformer which is a company that split off from OEP and sells "old" iron designs for a couple bucks less than OEP.
This stuff gets deep and weird. But I love it.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,992
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Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2020 16:38:33 GMT -6
I'm really glad to see AMI has a new website, I'll have to try ordering from them again. That's good to hear that they are operating well after all the big changes. I used to own a Radial JDI Duplex with the Jensen transformers, I remember the big scandal. The funny part to me is I thought the Pro D2 sounded even better on e-piano, with the Eclipse transformers! People compliment my piano sound, lay people. The Jensen transformer is really good for getting an aggressive bass guitar tone though. I'd prefer the J48 for general use bass recording. It's closer to my Wolfboxes, somehow, even though it's active. You would think the JDI would be closer. Apparently Dean Jensen was very impressed with the Triad transformers many decades ago, according to Ed Wolfrum's .pdf Cinemag and David have been a joy to order from in my small potatoes experience. Their prices are so good, compared to some of the competition. I love Cinemag transformers. It seems like transformers are some of the hardest things for bigger companies to source. I know CAPI had a saga a while back, I don't know the details so I'm not going to postulate. They came up with another input transformer I believe. My respect to people earning their livings from these types of work. Yep, true. I am reading into the Eclipse/Jensen stuff now. Interesting. I had only known of one side of it because I knew that Cinemag were somehow maybe involved, if just as a consultant or who knows. There doesn't seem to be any company information about Eclipse on the net, and I'd never heard of them outside of what I'm reading now. I owned one of the original ReAmps and that transformer, I think, was made by Altran (who also do work for Burl, UA, Warm, and lots of other brands). They are good at cloning parts. So I would venture to guess that Eclipse is a 'brand' and not a company, from what it looks like. Altran manufacture other 'brands' of transformers as well... Ed Anderson, etc... some that I won't name out of respect. It's a shame that Radial were not able to meet their supply needs with Jensen, even after acquiring controlling interest of the company for that very reason. That says something... Of course, it's also worth noting that when you 'own' a brand, then you can declare that anything at that point is a 'Jensen' and be legally within your right to do so. I am curious why they did not do that, and I do at least think it is more noble to 'not' do that so that the brand identity is not polluted. The Behringer situation comes to mind with regard to 'Midas Transformers' in their brand's hardware (Midas have never made transformers, LOL) and 'Midas powered preamps' in Behringer's digital boards (which do NOT have Midas preamps) LOL Poor Midas got prostituted to the maximum after their acquisition. Yeah, I did seem to get the impression that Jeff had to sort of take the reigns on his transformer supply after having supply issues with maybe Cinemag and the Ed Anderson parts... and good for him. He knows how a good transformer should be made and I think he's having them made right. I think they're actually a tad better than the Ed Anderson. I think he has to make some things with Cinemag out of historical accuracy; but the more he can bring over under his control, the better, I imagine. Even David Geren has told me that Altran can copy some of his parts perfectly, to the point that they're pretty much interchangeable. I know some of the larger clients like WA sort of 'suck all the oxygen out of the room' in regards to keeping suppliers like Cinemag tied up for long periods of time, and I know that's affected CAPI and many other little guys, including me to some degree. It's funny, and maybe a bit of karma because I've now seen it from both ends. When I was at WA, we became the first customer in Cinemag's history to receive in xfrmrs on a pallet by special truck... we bought that many. and I had Jeff and Eric Heiserman and others kind of razzle me at the trade shows about keeping Cinemag too tied up and messing them up... haha I don't remember if I fully got it then, but i certainly do now, now that I am that little guy who may have to wait a bit. haha life comes full circle. From what I remember Eclipse was Radial’s house brand, not sure if they were wound in house or who was the OEM at any given time or model. I sold a couple of big splitters with what ever Radial was calling the house brand before Eclipse and nobody ever complained and they were used on some pretty big live recordings!
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 26, 2020 17:15:47 GMT -6
Every time I see the title of this thread I get excited...
Then I remember.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,992
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Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2020 17:29:01 GMT -6
Every time I see the title of this thread I get excited... Then I remember. It’s been so long since I had a gig I forget what do we use a KM84 for anyway?
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 26, 2020 17:36:38 GMT -6
Every time I see the title of this thread I get excited... Then I remember. It’s been so long since I had a gig I forget what do we use a KM84 for anyway? If you have one you can send me, I’ll show you.
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Post by wiz on Apr 26, 2020 18:12:44 GMT -6
Just a great mic...
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 26, 2020 18:48:23 GMT -6
It’s been so long since I had a gig I forget what do we use a KM84 for anyway? If you have one you can send me, I’ll show you. Will he have to buy you dinner first?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,992
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Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2020 19:14:35 GMT -6
If you have one you can send me, I’ll show you. Will he have to buy you dinner first? Yes he would, of course he would quickly find out I’m not a cheap date! In fact it might just be cheaper to buy the mic.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 27, 2020 0:11:59 GMT -6
The cool thing with Schoeps you can do literally anything audio, all the way to blockbuster movies, just 2-4 mics and the different heads. Pretty much the same with DPA's too. They are great. Surprised more don't use them. Both brands. Most people these days are too hung up on "color" and "mojo" (which, by the way, is a small leather bag with a bunch of crap in it, worn around the neck for luck.)
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Post by chessparov on Apr 27, 2020 0:56:53 GMT -6
Every time I see the title of this thread I get excited... Then I remember. Yeah, what kind of fool would start all this? (what a perfect segue for the big closer! "Mi Mi Mi")... "Maybe Then I'll Know What Kind Of Fo-o-o-o-o-ol I (dramatic pause & high money note) A-a-a-a-m" Chris
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Post by Ward on Apr 27, 2020 7:26:59 GMT -6
Every time I see the title of this thread I get excited... Then I remember. This is thread that doesn't end, won't die, won't go away or even stay remotely on topic. I tracked snare drum with a KM84 yesterday and acoustic guitars with a KM84 last night. Just the most perfect captures.
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Post by jamiesego on Apr 27, 2020 8:04:59 GMT -6
Could we start a petition for Neumann to make this thread a reality?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,992
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Post by ericn on Apr 27, 2020 8:40:38 GMT -6
Could we start a petition for Neumann to make this thread a reality? It’s been done, they still said no.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 27, 2020 9:41:21 GMT -6
I really thought it might be a possibility after the success (I assume) of the U67.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 27, 2020 10:24:23 GMT -6
I bet the noise floor and the headroom are things they're not ready to get behind. Things that were improved in the KM184.
Same thing with the U87 they're probably not going to re-issue a "non AI" version.
Don't really know what their reasons are but I do wonder.
The U67 and FET47 were products that were completely dropped, rather than being revised and updated into current products. Maybe that's a difference.
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Post by Ward on Apr 27, 2020 10:34:32 GMT -6
I bet the noise floor and the headroom are things they're not ready to get behind. Things that were improved in the KM184. Funny thing about that. The 'noise' present in the KM84 is musical noise and doesn't take away from the capture but adds to it in a musical way. In the same manner an 1176 or 1073 does. Those aren't 95dba SN pieces of kit, those are musical devices. Taking away from the 184 or making it irrelevant might be more the issue but regardless, as ericn affirmed... it is never ever going to happen. That was bold and I'll guarantee you took tremendous courage on the part of the individual who first proposed it to senior management and then the senior manager who brought it to upper management at Sennheiser. Someone's job was on the line! So glad to have had the opportunity to buy several of these and use them on a regular basis. They don't sound like 50 year old microphones, they sound like the 50 year old microphones did 50 years ago, from those who have had both experiences. And I love them!
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