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Post by ericn on Apr 17, 2024 17:25:30 GMT -6
That’s just lazy retail. I worked as a waiter for a long time and believe in service. If you need to make an appointment, you should be asked to pick from their in house list, your top 3-5 monitors to demo and they should be placed properly before you get there, set flat, be on the same stands or isolation system and then you demo. I completely agree, but in their defense time is $ and it’s mid month so nobody is scared they won’t make their nut for another week. I will admit in my last 2 years before 4/19/98 if you weren’t a VIP, friend or high $$$$$$ client, I probably wouldn’t be able to justify say 4 hrs of setup/ demo / breakdown. If you insisted on a demo and it wasn’t our standard setup & I couldn’t get the vendor to ship a demo you were probably going to end up with the newbie sales weinnie ( hey it was Madison Home of Oscar Meyer). Even if I wanted to and could do a demo the client hand to understand I just couldn’t devote the time.
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Post by ericn on Apr 17, 2024 17:10:42 GMT -6
GC doesn’t deal new gear as used even if they aren’t a dealer, they will take gear billed as “ like new” or I never “ used” but no transferable warranty and the seller is not an authorized dealer as used as they should, it’s one of the few respectable policies they have. I might be missing the nuance in this, but when I was with the company, we definitely had a special scenario where we had some inventory come in that we were not official dealers in, so no warranty, no nothing, but we priced it out to move fast.
The nuance that I might be missing: I know they weren't tagging the product with our yellow-used tags, but they definitely weren't the standard "red"-tags either.
Not sure how the online SPO system works now, are you suggesting that if they're on used site, that some employee or manager is actually buying in these Weird Mics at 600 a pop, and tagging them at 1k? (Estimating on the buy-in values, based on the original used prices for them)
Then the stuff wasn’t simply trans shipped from another dealer, it was in fact used ( you want to guess where a bunch was trans shipped from😁 we all did it it if you had a client who really needed something). I’m going to bet all those weird mics are from one of 2 scenarios. 1. Some rep traded them for a guitar or something, might even have spread them around TX for a couple things, again saw it all the time. 2. Someone at GC bought into the line and they lived up to the name not the hype, again you see it all the time with GC used, they take it back on trade, when it doesn’t live up to the hype. I’m sure Weird was willing to give away the farm to get GC to sell a couple. “ So & So at GC pro loves our mics” is right up his alley and I have known wayyyyyyy to many reps, sales managers and owners of gear manufacturers who could play this role without a script.
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Post by ericn on Apr 17, 2024 15:54:23 GMT -6
That set up look like a proverbial dog's breakfast approach, how could you make real comparison other than to two speaker that are directly beside each other is beyond me. Was there any clarify about all monitors being set flat and open, no filtering or room correction going on ? not very impressed. You can’t, what it does is force you to hand over your card take them home and at worst for them pray it’s just to much of a pain to bring them back.
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Post by ericn on Apr 17, 2024 15:52:26 GMT -6
I still find it odd that you can see their mics show up regularly (or at least, used to?) used in various Guitar Centers in Texas. I know GC will occasionally deal gear they don't officially carry straight as "used" and I'm curious if that's that's going on here. SP: I know this ship has sailed, but if you're still in the market, around the price of the Weird, you could get a 47/48 from UAE SAE (signal arts) for a few hundred more (going off of their site's prices).
edit: Wow, there are quite a few Weird 47's at GC.com marked down. One apparently even made its way to Sherman Oaks, but you can tell from the photos that it was yet another acquired in Texas.
GC doesn’t deal new gear as used even if they aren’t a dealer, they will take gear billed as “ like new” or I never “ used” but no transferable warranty and the seller is not an authorized dealer as used as they should, it’s one of the few respectable policies they have.
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Post by ericn on Apr 17, 2024 15:48:49 GMT -6
I don't know how I bought one of his 47's with the existence of this thread, but a trusted engineer had said it was decent....and the Tape Op review. The communication to get the mic was a total debacle. I was promised a Theirsch capsule and a NOS tube...and a warranty. It arrived looking like UPS had played football with the box. The mic was DOA, and it had neither the Theirsch capsule, and the tube was a $10 PSVANE. There were some of the worst looking solder joints I'd ever seen on the capsule and where it's wires connect to the PCB, and in place of shrink wrap at one location was duct tape. There was one wire dangling and not connected to anything, presumably due to the horrible soldering. I emailed 3 times trying to just get a refund. I called multiple numbers that went nowhere. At this point I'm having my tech see if we can make something usable out of it. Happy to provide pics of the horror inside if anybody still wants some laughs. Welcome to RGO, sorry to hear about your experience with weird. Taking a flyer on a new cloner of mics with all the generic made in China crap and higher dollar Made in China crap pretending to be the real deal is a gutsy yet naive move. I’m sorry to hear about your experience, but not shocked. Weird did a great job of setting its self up with great PR out of the gate. Unfortunately in the world of mics that’s usually a clear signal of disappointment. Get your money back, if weird lives up to its name about it call your CC company.
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Post by ericn on Apr 17, 2024 15:37:03 GMT -6
I get the ease of switching speakers but I have to say that pic makes me think of Best Buy and every speaker having a crappy position! Sure it takes time and effort but man it’s so much easier to actually sell speakers if you have 2 maybe 3 pairs in a room and try to position them so they actually sound good. But what do I know! They’re appointment only now - I kindve thought they were going to set up a pair of 03s and Amphions at a console or something. But no. If they had and I felt more comfortable comparing the two, there’s a good chance I would have walked out with a pair. Man I remember when VK actually worked for the sale! That sucks. Getting Decent LF requires work, or when you’re selling you work on a default well positioned tuned sub and switch it on to magically show what a little more cash can do.
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Apr 17, 2024 15:31:38 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Apr 17, 2024 15:31:38 GMT -6
Like huffing from the ports? No, noisy amps are causing a lot of hiss in the speakers. As I’m setting up a pretty basic system for listening in the new place, umm gain staging? If not Yikes!
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Post by ericn on Apr 17, 2024 13:44:38 GMT -6
They are good ! Effortless ! And the possibility to balance clipper vs limiter via "rich density" is excellent. 380 euros for two units, it's hard to beat. I like the 720 sound more than the 723 sound. I think they use a different VCA chips. At some point I'd like to try the 700 too, which is said to be less transparent than the 720 and 723. Eric, do you have an opinion on the Orban Optimod 8100a ? You have to understand the Optimod was not designed as a tracking or buss comp, it is very good at its purpose squeezing the single and boosting HF for analog broadcast. Un modded, not a great piece, modded, well Orban was underrated till everyone figured out the EQ’s were great and made cheaper DBX versions, then Harman did what Harman do best, they killed a company.
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Post by ericn on Apr 17, 2024 13:37:53 GMT -6
The issue with that approach will be tape machine drift. Without the deck locked to a synchronizer, and then the synchronizer resolved to black burst it will "drift". How much, how little? It depends. Enough to care, enough to be unusable? Depends. Even the voltage of the AC can affect the speed of the deck. So can heat. Or the phase of the moon. Analog tape machines do not play nice like digital machines do. So - if I was in your shoes - I'd feed a drum machine or external click to both DAW and Tape and record both. Use a side stick or something with a very clear transient for easy visibility. Then feed the analog recorded click and record it back into the DAW. Then line up the first "clicks" to each other. Then play back the DAW and see how much "drift" there is over time. Do you hear phasing, flanging, actual delay between the two? It's likely there will be some degree of this - the longer the recording, the more likely. When doing film/ video, we often had 15+ minutes section, and the drift could be substantial - causing lip sync to look like a bad Japanese dubbed film. If you're only doing 3 minute songs, perhaps it will not be so egregious. At any rate, record the max time you might ever use. Then.. As mentioned, line up click #1. Go 30 sec in and see if there is any drift. Then 1 min in. Then 1:30, etc. all the way down to the end. If there is zero drift, then you are the luckiest guy around. IF there is drift - don't freak out. It's 100% normal. Go to your daw. Figure out a formula of how many samples you will "pull up or slip back" the DAW click every 15, 30 or however many seconds. For example, if it's drifting 10 samples every 30 seconds, make an edit every 30 seconds in the TAPE to DAW track and slip the 1st edit 10 samples, the second 20 samples, the third 30 samples, etc.. Some elements like drums will be more critical. Some things like a string pad might be OK all the way through. Its all going to depend on the amount of drift. Keep in mind, the amount of drift CAN vary from day to day depending on the electrical voltage and how regulated your deck is. The RIGHT way to do this is to lock and resolve your deck with a synchronizer and blackburst, and you may be able to be completely stable with zero drift. That approach is several levels up the analog food chain and requires $$$, special cabling and decks, and a lot of experience/knowledge of a tech who knows what they are doing. Good luck. Yeah at the very least you want a 4 track, one track for time code and possibly a guard track. 8 tracks is ideal, radar and PT lock pretty decent to tape.Even when the MTP was current they locked better than a Adam Smith Zeta that cost 10 times as much.
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Post by ericn on Apr 17, 2024 13:33:31 GMT -6
I went there looking to check out the Footprint01. Listened to all 3 models. The 01 had the most bass of the bunch, as expected. I didn’t really care for the 02. I felt like they lacked some clarity compared to the 01. The 03 was nicely balanced. Less bass than the 01, but I dug the sound. Never would have guessed they were the cheapest of the bunch. All have more bottom than the Amphions. Listening in the showroom though, I’m not sure if they would help with my mixing or not. Showroom setup is super weird. Couple towers of speakers, shit listening position. I’m not sure if having the added bass of thr 01 vs 03 would be better. Or even the added bass of the 03 over my Amphion Argon speakers. Pure listening, I would take the 01 over all of them, but practically, and for my space, I’m considering the 03. I actually have 2 sets of Argon since I was using them in the studio and at home, now I’m sitting on a pair in storage. I should sell them and grab the barefoot… I get the ease of switching speakers but I have to say that pic makes me think of Best Buy and every speaker having a crappy position! Sure it takes time and effort but man it’s so much easier to actually sell speakers if you have 2 maybe 3 pairs in a room and try to position them so they actually sound good. But what do I know!
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 17:33:52 GMT -6
Just remembered... I was Chevy's "Lung" in Fletch/X-RAY scene. Really! Got paid a whole $100. Cash! I heard the big money is in playing his ass, you know Chevy Chase money 😁
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 16:09:50 GMT -6
Ohhhh the Studer thread. I was gonna post specifically about this sale. This is the first time it’s kinda rubbed me the wrong way…knowing that I paid hundreds for all of these plugs and now they’re 75% off. Oh well. His name is John and he is an audio crack addict 😁
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 16:09:10 GMT -6
Wait it’s UA, my email folder is screaming wouldn’t it be more informative when UA doesn’t have a sale😁
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 16:07:35 GMT -6
Sums of experience and music I'd say, I was walking down the street and heard someone clattering on some bins which sparked an interesting idea. Not saying it was a good one but sometimes even a car indicator can spark something due to rhythm alone. Then for me mood is triggered usually by memory or situation which often sets the timbre.. This is outside the confines of professional writing though and in those regards I sympathise, yeah it sucks but even then what's the difference today? I'm honestly asking. We have an onslaught of material mathematically devised to hit the most amount of streams whilst tens if not hundreds of millions of tracks (maybe more) flounder within the void. So AI adds to the ever overflowing pile and what? Unless you're in the right circle or have a massive social media advertisement budget what's changed? As someone just writing songs and wanting to play live, nothing has changed for me. I'm an outsider looking in, the expectancy of anything successful dissolved when the internet went into full swing. The one benefit I have over AI is arms and legs, so playing live should still be a fun thing to do. Also it would be interesting if AI could deliver something like Opeth which is I guess popular within its niche but certainly different.
Arms and legs make for a much more compelling live show typically. Hey now some of us can put up a decent live show short a bunch of fingers and toes at least 😁
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 16:04:49 GMT -6
Supposedly, VK has them in stock...(probably not here in Nashville). I really, really want to hear them, but I'm dubious as to whether these would be any sort of "improvement" over the One 18s...I mean, there's a reason these are $999 per speaker - they're built to a price point. That being said, ya never know till you try. eric as our resident recovering gear pimp, how did you respond to returns? I really try hard to make sure I'm not going to return something if I want to establish a relationship with a sales person. But I think I returned my last big purchase there - hey - it was a legitimate reason. And this guy took over for another guy, so I don't have anything more than an email relationship with him. I'll email him with a question about a product and he always sends me a quote - that I didn't specifically ask for - but IDK, I'm just being paranoid. I'd LOVE to try these out, but I'm 50/50 on whether I'll keep them or not (they'd have to beat out the Amphions). I guess I should ask: is that exactly what the return policy was made for, or am I a dick for ordering in a 50/50 chance I'll keep? Dirty secret even those dealers who encourage try before you by hate returns, the time the lost sale the cost of the time and lost sale and the fact that you now have b-stock to move. Even if I sold something at A mark up take it back and move the b-stock at it’s A mark, I’m still personally losing money on the deal because the A mark on the b-stock is lower. The only good thing about returns is if say Ward takes something back creating B-stock I might become someone’s hero by moving that B Stock at a lower mark gaining a loyal customer because I got him them into something special. Look at all the articles on how everyone in retail and internet sales is starting to figure out how much returns actually cost.
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 14:52:02 GMT -6
Two Aphex Dominators II added... My work is done here😎
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 14:51:15 GMT -6
The fact that Chris didn’t comment on the fact that you had a leg up on the drummer speaks volumes 😁 Great job.
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 14:49:08 GMT -6
ANAMOD & send a mail to Jim from ADT, you never know. Really-ous😁
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 14:01:46 GMT -6
Oh come on admit it your really tempted to find a decent cheap active cross over mount the ATC’s below the Focals and see what the Be sounds like crossed over to the ATC non s Dome 😁 OK maybe it’s just me. Haha, Eric, I would dig that.
I feel like when ATC was forced to find/develop implement the new tweeter, they may have been so pressured by legacy to reproduce the tonal spirit of the original, they may have overlooked other possibilities. Who knows? I am just spit ballin'. I like the new tweeter, but I really like the forward nature of the Be.
A quick trip to storage and FedEx and we could hear😁 Your right but not in the way you think, The design of the ATC tweeter was definitely influenced by both the original Audax and later Seas ATC used but mostly trying to get a driver that could take the power and heat. I find this absolutely hilarious as I look at my EAW’s in the live rig and the EAW’s rated at 500 watts that EAW says should see 1000 watts, the LF is a 75 watt rated ATC 12.
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 13:55:01 GMT -6
OK here is where from a designer standard point you get to understand some of the trade offs. Here is a Freq graph for a volt 6.5 woofer. voltloudspeakers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/BM165.1_v1.2.pdfLet’s say you took a flyer bought a pair on the cheap and mondo of like them a lot. Now in every performance model and attempt at a 2 way that dip that starts above 500HZ really gets exaggerated by every crossover and tweeter. It really models better in a 3 way really well with the Volt 2in mid and a Morell Tweeter, sort of a less expensive ATC 25, but see that mid is a proximity twice the price and half as efficient so I have to really pad the mid and HF. I could just stick in the Old 75 dollar Vifa/ Seas dome it’s less than a $100 sounds pretty good and meshes with the cheap Morel Tweet, but it needs its own sub enclosure so that adds to expenses so what to do? 2 of the 6.5’s the Volt 2in mid and a Morel things just got more expensive and doubled in size.
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 13:39:37 GMT -6
the bass no longer modulates the midrange causing imd. the downside is another crossover. That is going to have a lot to do with choice of LF driver and of course how low the system can go.
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 13:37:12 GMT -6
Tidy setup you have there, very nice.. What do you think to the Focals vs. ATC's? I hope there are pics showing now, apologies for the multiple attempts here ya'll - Thank you man, the space is small. It’s well wired to keep tidy. The small size reality comes with its own set of issues for monitoring, no way around it (here is a shot of where I sit with the MKIIs in place) The MKIs from the other shot went to my media studio. I think in the end we all know it’s about living and learning the room with what you have. I have never had a studio so small or whacked, so it has taken some practice. And I am still very much on the fence about Trinnov, though you can see the ARC studio box in play. In a generic summary, the Focals have more low mids and a slightly forward tweeter/high end. I am in the camp that enjoys the Be tweeters. I liked the Focals horizontally better of course. Bigger sound field, though I find the contrast between the two pair is very complimentary. From a visceral standpoint, (I hate audio lingo) the ATCs ‘become’ the room. Whereas the Focals project ‘into’ the room. ATCs deliver great L/M/H detail with a pillowy kiss on the cheek, Focals deliver great L/M/H detail, but sort of gently bitch slap you. Both experiences are valid. I feel like I could use either, but very happy to have both for contrast. Having (30+) instruments, several tube amps, bass amps, 70+ effect pedals, DATs, ADATs, Tape Machine, rack effects etc in the overflow/gig room. I pull what I need for the gig/session and just keep essentials plugged in. 100% of what is racked is fundamentals and gets used regularly. Almost all of it is in play. Not my favorite way to work, but I am cool with it at this stage as I need the room/space for mental vibes and older analog gear is bulky. Prepping for a live video guitar session end of week, I pulled out the Delta Labs ADM1024 Effectron II (The 2290 killer) same converters, but better sounding. Super sweet box tone. My not so secret weapon for electric guitars mixed with a few of my D-Style pedals. I'll start getting tones tonight.
meta%3AeyJzcmNCdWNrZXQiOiJiemdsZmlsZXMifQ%3D%3D.jpg Oh come on admit it your really tempted to find a decent cheap active cross over mount the ATC’s below the Focals and see what the Be sounds like crossed over to the ATC non s Dome 😁 OK maybe it’s just me.
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 13:32:35 GMT -6
In theory each individual driver will do a better job over a range that it was designed for: The contradictions, the crossover just got expensive. If a 2way design and a 3 way are of similar price, you are taking your driver budget and splitting it 3 ways vs 2 ways so less $$ per driver. Like almost everything in speaker design there is no right answer, it’s all about priorities and in the end execution. If your still running the sub in a purely technical sense your monitors are 2 way but your system is 3 way. One of the best examples of the difference was to compare Quested 2108s to 3208’s same tweeter the only differences were 2 vs 1 of the exact same 8 in the same cabinet and the addition of the mid. Yep this ^^
In plain talk - midrange clarity - and as a consequence low end and top end clarity with now dedicated power/drivers/tweeter.
As Eric said, "it’s all about priorities and in the end execution". This is why I am always weary of cheap 3-way monitors. But if the crossover points, cabinet design and time alignment are in place, the difference is truly palpable over a 2 way.
And then of course, 2-ways have their own strengths.
I am hesitant to say midrange clarity is an inherent advantage, way too many examples of a designer throwing a sub in a box with a 2 way and calling it a 3 way😁 A big advantage in a well designed 3 way is that you move the crossover points out of the vocal range. The power and authority of my TAD’s will have you wondering why anyone needs more than 2 drivers. Of course we could go the Audiophile Set 1 way route no highs no lows but no pesky crossovers.
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 12:52:29 GMT -6
I would love to be able to say with a straight face that an interface has an inherently better headphone amp, but honestly it’s as likely to be the same chip.
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 12:48:31 GMT -6
In theory each individual driver will do a better job over a range that it was designed for: The contradictions, the crossover just got expensive. If a 2way design and a 3 way are of similar price, you are taking your driver budget and splitting it 3 ways vs 2 ways so less $$ per driver.
Like almost everything in speaker design there is no right answer, it’s all about priorities and in the end execution.
If your still running the sub in a purely technical sense your monitors are 2 way but your system is 3 way.
One of the best examples of the difference was to compare Quested 2108s to 3208’s same tweeter the only differences were 2 vs 1 of the exact same 8 in the same cabinet and the addition of the mid.
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