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Post by bluesholyman on Apr 16, 2024 7:16:13 GMT -6
I find myself travling a bit due to my wifes schedule, which means I have Pro Tools on my laptop (Macbook Air M2) and don't have my Carbon with me. I don't really have a small portable interface like and UA Arrow Solo or something along those lines, but I do have a set of Beyer Dynamic DT1770 Pro's, which personally I think are decent, but not top-shelf perhaps.
Assuming good original source that I am mixing on this setup, is an interface really needed or is the headphone out good enough? I think I already know the answer to this question, at least I know what my assumption is, but wanted to get some broader opinions on it.
Appreciate whatever you can offer.
Thanks,
BHM.
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Post by svart on Apr 16, 2024 7:44:49 GMT -6
I find myself travling a bit due to my wifes schedule, which means I have Pro Tools on my laptop (Macbook Air M2) and don't have my Carbon with me. I don't really have a small portable interface like and UA Arrow Solo or something along those lines, but I do have a set of Beyer Dynamic DT1770 Pro's, which personally I think are decent, but not top-shelf perhaps. Assuming good original source that I am mixing on this setup, is an interface really needed or is the headphone out good enough? I think I already know the answer to this question, at least I know what my assumption is, but wanted to get some broader opinions on it. Appreciate whatever you can offer. Thanks, BHM. I know some folks will say it absolutely matters, but I don't think so. You're always going to get a decent picture of the sound. If you don't, then it's probably the headphones. I think the transducers (mics or speakers/headphones) will always be more important than the converters. |
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Post by FM77 on Apr 16, 2024 8:36:57 GMT -6
I find myself travling a bit due to my wifes schedule, which means I have Pro Tools on my laptop (Macbook Air M2) and don't have my Carbon with me. I don't really have a small portable interface like and UA Arrow Solo or something along those lines, but I do have a set of Beyer Dynamic DT1770 Pro's, which personally I think are decent, but not top-shelf perhaps. Assuming good original source that I am mixing on this setup, is an interface really needed or is the headphone out good enough? I think I already know the answer to this question, at least I know what my assumption is, but wanted to get some broader opinions on it. Appreciate whatever you can offer. Thanks, BHM. Its more about the headphone amp input impedance matching the phones. The newer Macbook will bump the volts up to 3v for the Beyer 250 Ohms. That should be sufficient for non critical quality listening.
You could always travel with a RNHP -https://rupertneve.com/products/rnhp
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Post by doubledog on Apr 16, 2024 9:59:25 GMT -6
I would say that the best way to answer this is, do your headphone mixes translate well when you get back to your monitors? Or on other systems? If yes, then no need for additional hardware.
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Post by subspace on Apr 16, 2024 10:14:47 GMT -6
I find myself travling a bit due to my wifes schedule, which means I have Pro Tools on my laptop (Macbook Air M2) and don't have my Carbon with me. I don't really have a small portable interface like and UA Arrow Solo or something along those lines, but I do have a set of Beyer Dynamic DT1770 Pro's, which personally I think are decent, but not top-shelf perhaps. Assuming good original source that I am mixing on this setup, is an interface really needed or is the headphone out good enough? I think I already know the answer to this question, at least I know what my assumption is, but wanted to get some broader opinions on it. Appreciate whatever you can offer. Thanks, BHM. I use one one of these on the go, unless it's just a quick edit or something: www.amazon.com/FiiO-BTR5-2021-Bluetooth-Headphone-Resolution/dp/B09G9TNB2R?th=1It's tiny. |
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Post by chessparov on Apr 16, 2024 11:52:32 GMT -6
Considering I once got a compliment from David Rick... Using just el cheapo Tascam THX-200's.  Yep. Possible.  Chris |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2024 12:52:29 GMT -6
I would love to be able to say with a straight face that an interface has an inherently better headphone amp, but honestly it’s as likely to be the same chip.
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Post by Shadowk on Apr 16, 2024 13:57:07 GMT -6
I find myself travling a bit due to my wifes schedule, which means I have Pro Tools on my laptop (Macbook Air M2) and don't have my Carbon with me. I don't really have a small portable interface like and UA Arrow Solo or something along those lines, but I do have a set of Beyer Dynamic DT1770 Pro's, which personally I think are decent, but not top-shelf perhaps. Assuming good original source that I am mixing on this setup, is an interface really needed or is the headphone out good enough? I think I already know the answer to this question, at least I know what my assumption is, but wanted to get some broader opinions on it. Appreciate whatever you can offer. Thanks, BHM. I'm always with Eric on this one, whilst the converters themselves might not matter too much the actual headphone amp IME does. I'm feeding my SSL desk via the Carbon so there's no conversion anomolies here because it's the same one. When I use the headphone amp on the SSL everything sounds quite dull, it's not subtle at all IMO.. The Carbon's headphone outs rock though and I'm using Beyer Pro DT 700 pro X's. |
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Post by ironinthepath on Apr 16, 2024 15:58:31 GMT -6
I think interface choice can have a large impact on apparent performance of the headphones. DAC matters and headphone amp matters (and relative impact is a function of your headphone’s impedance spec).
Lynx knows their stuff and if money is no object, I doubt you’d be disappointed with a HiLo. I have an Aurora (n) I put into a travel rack with some pres: it’s really excellent overall in my opinion.
For budget and portability, I’ve been happy in many instances using the Motu M4.
Way less satisfied with Focusrite Scarlett, but of course they’re all usable.
I typically use the infamous Sony MDR-7506 headphones.
-Chris
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Post by chessparov on Apr 16, 2024 16:02:05 GMT -6
Plus what about the recent Chip shortage?
(Affecting many a Taco Tuesday)
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Post by bluesholyman on Apr 17, 2024 5:21:35 GMT -6
Plus what about the recent Chip shortage? (Affecting many a Taco Tuesday) Proper Taco conversion starts with premium ingredients. |
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Post by notneeson on Apr 17, 2024 8:48:38 GMT -6
One thing I’ve noticed when checking mixes on my laptop (without an interface) using nice headphones is that the response is non-linear: with the output down far enough the playback is muddier sounding.
I can also plug the RND headphone amp. I love mine.
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 17, 2024 13:45:31 GMT -6
Pretty important give it's still a DA for the Headphones and the amp is important.
The difference between interfaces headphone amps is usually no small. The HAPI I have is the best headphone amp I have, better than my Grace m900 or m920. And my assistant this his HAPI is worlds better than his Apollo's.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 17, 2024 13:47:30 GMT -6
I find myself travling a bit due to my wifes schedule, which means I have Pro Tools on my laptop (Macbook Air M2) and don't have my Carbon with me. I don't really have a small portable interface like and UA Arrow Solo or something along those lines, but I do have a set of Beyer Dynamic DT1770 Pro's, which personally I think are decent, but not top-shelf perhaps. Assuming good original source that I am mixing on this setup, is an interface really needed or is the headphone out good enough? I think I already know the answer to this question, at least I know what my assumption is, but wanted to get some broader opinions on it. Appreciate whatever you can offer. Thanks, BHM. I had the Slate headphones for a hot second and I thought the Amphions in the software sounded pretty dang close to my real ones. |
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nas
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Post by nas on Apr 17, 2024 13:56:36 GMT -6
As long as you have enough to drive the headphones with respect to impedance you should be fine. I can defiantly hear a difference in headroom, separation, and depth with a great headphone amp/convertor but not to the degree that not having one is going to inhibit mixing or getting a decent translation. Just make sure the headphones you're using don't require a lot to drive them - which nowadays (at least with a MBP) it's not really an issue.
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Post by ironinthepath on Apr 17, 2024 14:35:21 GMT -6
I have the RND headphone amp too, I think it's purposefully over-designed to handle anything thrown at it (in terms of headphone impedance), but there are a few things that are sort of drawbacks in my opinion
1. To minimize impact of protection circuitry on the sonics RND basically left out the circuits that avoid "pop/clicks" when powering on/off - DEFINITELY don't leave the headphones plugged in (and certainly not on your ears) during powering up or down the RND headphone amp. Keep volume at the zero position (and power already on/stable) when plugging/unplugging the phones to avoid damage (to your hearing, especially)
2. I wish it would default to dual mono (or allow user to switch it in) when only one input is used, left or right -- my RND headphone amp is left in my circuits lab (day job is EE) for making audio judgements, often with a single channel unit and it's annoying not having sound in both ears.
3. It's really nice but for me it's almost "too nice" - I think the isolation transformers offer a bit of harmonic content that is pleasing but not fully neutral
Another headphone amp that reminds of the RND (in the sense that it is overpowered and "breathes life" into the headphones to some degree, in my opinion) but is very neutral is the one built into the Dangerous Audio Monitor ST.
Also, about the laptop headphone amp response being non-linear (muddy) at low volumes - I totally agree with this.
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Post by cademan7 on Apr 17, 2024 17:32:53 GMT -6
Have you looked into one of these? www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Groove--apogee-groove-usb-dac-and-headphone-ampIt's something I got specifically for mixing on a laptop with my Audeze's and the difference between it and the Macbook headphone out is substantial enough to justify the cost. It really is comparable to the headphone outs of my Symphony. Highly recommend! Also, I've just recently started trying the Realphones monitoring plugin and I'm very impressed with that as well. It makes the stereo imaging more like speakers which helps me a lot when working on headphones plus you can load eq calibration profiles for tons of different headphones. And the transition between that and my ATC's is pretty seamless as well. |
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Post by notneeson on Apr 17, 2024 21:52:45 GMT -6
Have you looked into one of these? www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Groove--apogee-groove-usb-dac-and-headphone-ampIt's something I got specifically for mixing on a laptop with my Audeze's and the difference between it and the Macbook headphone out is substantial enough to justify the cost. It really is comparable to the headphone outs of my Symphony. Highly recommend! Also, I've just recently started trying the Realphones monitoring plugin and I'm very impressed with that as well. It makes the stereo imaging more like speakers which helps me a lot when working on headphones plus you can load eq calibration profiles for tons of different headphones. And the transition between that and my ATC's is pretty seamless as well. I was honestly pondering how to rough in some client mixes from bed today. I think I need one of these. |
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Post by ironinthepath on Apr 18, 2024 8:32:22 GMT -6
I would have to hear the Apogee Groove headphone amp to be a "believer" - the ESS DAC chip (if its the same one in the Motu M4) is really nice, especially for a portable product, but I am always skeptical about something powered by USB since the supply voltage is limited. From a technical standpoint, you usually don't need too much output voltage swing to drive most headphones but I think it's likely that both the RND and the Monitor ST use higher voltage supplies leaving more headroom / better THD specs, overall better drive capability. (the M4 has same tradeoff since it;s USB powered, it's quite decent but not the RND, etc.).
It is possible for either of these products that they designed in some power-conversion circuits to step up the voltage powering the headphone amp, but this also must be done carefully to avoid audible artifacts (supply noise, etc.)
If somebody owned the MOTU M2/M4 (or M6, I think that's the "big bro") and had experience with the Apogee Groove, it would great to hear their thoughts for comparison. If they are similar in headphone drive quality, the M2 and M4 are similarly priced and also have inputs in case you'd want them.
-Chris
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Post by viciousbliss on Apr 18, 2024 18:50:31 GMT -6
I'll second the recommendations for the Aurora N and VSX.
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