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Post by swurveman on Feb 5, 2017 7:41:09 GMT -6
I always have trouble getting reverb to sit well on a vocal- and yes this includes my Bricasti M7. I just never can seem to get a warm sound throughout with a warm decay like this. This reverb is warm, but you don't hear the decay until the end of the phrases, even though you feel the warmth presence of it all the way through. So, I'm wondering what kind and type of reverb you think this is and how the engineer got it to compliment the vocal in this way. If you mix this with your reverb you will see that it sits in the mix, because your brain needs reflections (Haas effect) to calculate the distance to the direct signal. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effectWhy not use a room for the early reflections instead of a Haas based 30-40 ms delay?
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Post by swurveman on Feb 4, 2017 17:00:41 GMT -6
Try this... Insert a de-esser on the reverb send and monitor the wet return. Play the vocal and listen to how the sibilance sounds within the reverb. Progressively increase the amount of de-essing until the sibilance ceases sounding splashy and/or fizzy in the reverb field. Don't worry about using quite a lot of de-essing as you are not effecting the original vocal. This will make the reverb sound smoother and can also make it subjectively warmer by removing the splashy high frequency artifacts caused by the verb reacting to excessive sibilance which tends to distract from other more subtle elements of the reverb. Bright plate settings especially benefit from this. The problem with just EQ'ing the return instead of the send is this will tend to take the life and air out of the verb. We have a SPL hardware de-esser patched into both sends of our 480L I'll try the deeser trick. Thanks. I was trying out the Abbey Road plate today and - to get rid of that bright mettalic sound- I turned the treble all the way down. That helped, but there's still that warmth and decay that I just can't get. Perhaps I need a better mic that accentuates the low end of my voice to trigger the lows of the plate. I think plates are one thing that plugins just haven't gotten close enough to the real thing. Wish real one's weren't so rare and expensive.
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Post by swurveman on Feb 4, 2017 16:54:24 GMT -6
Sounds like a 480L to me. Having a voice like that helps a little too..... Sounds like a plate to me. Were you thinking about the 489L's plates?
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Post by swurveman on Feb 4, 2017 16:50:24 GMT -6
Thanks guys for your advice!
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Post by swurveman on Feb 4, 2017 9:18:04 GMT -6
Yes. It wasn't too difficult, just wiggle a little. Of course, you're unit may be different than mine, but I'm sure a gentle touch with small pliers wouldn't do any harm either. It's good you asked first, but it's no big deal, once you take a look, it'll be obvious what to do. Do be careful though, you don't want to accidentally crush something else. Thanks!
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Post by swurveman on Feb 4, 2017 9:17:18 GMT -6
Often in dense pro mixes you can't really judge the reverb. But I heard this ac guitar/vocal track and you can hear the vocal reverb decay perfectly, and how seamless it is imo with the vocal. So, I thought I'd use it as an example I'm looking to get. It's not often you get to hear a famous singer in such a stripped down format.
I always have trouble getting reverb to sit well on a vocal- and yes this includes my Bricasti M7. I just never can seem to get a warm sound throughout with a warm decay like this. This reverb is warm, but you don't hear the decay until the end of the phrases, even though you feel the warmth presence of it all the way through.
So, I'm wondering what kind and type of reverb you think this is and how the engineer got it to compliment the vocal in this way.
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Post by swurveman on Feb 4, 2017 9:06:02 GMT -6
I changed an opamp in my Warm Audio preamp. It supposedly pulls out easily, and then you pop the new opamp right in. The thing was, it was really tricky to get the new one seated. It took me 10--15 minutes before all the little prongs lined up. That may not happen in your case, but be prepared to be patient, and it'll work eventually. Did you just use your fingers?
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Post by swurveman on Feb 4, 2017 9:05:29 GMT -6
It's like a 2520 style OA with the pins? Yes. Sorry if this is basic stuff. I just am always cautious when doing something the first time.
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Post by swurveman on Feb 4, 2017 8:32:14 GMT -6
My 4 channels preamp has one channel that has is not reproducing any low end. So, I contacted the manufacturer who suggested I remove the opamp from the bad channel with one from one of the good channels and see if that solves the problem.
Having never removed/exchanged an opamp I'm wondering if there's any tool that is best for doing this and any "best practice" advise from the many wise RGO member's.
Thanks to anybody with advise !
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Post by swurveman on Feb 2, 2017 20:22:09 GMT -6
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Post by swurveman on Feb 2, 2017 13:47:48 GMT -6
Sorry for your misfortune. Get well soon!
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Post by swurveman on Feb 1, 2017 8:51:22 GMT -6
I love good preamps but I feel that preamp selection is almost minutia in comparison to how critical mic selection and placement are on an acoustic. More so than most other sources, IMO, because of the way the instrument projects, creating a variety of tones from different parts of the instrument. That said, V72s are lovely on acoustics (so long as it's not too lightly played). If there's magic coming out of the instrument, the V72 will capture it. Millennia M2a/b is another other fave. The highs are incredibly airy and the mids are lean, making them feel almost pre-EQ'd for acoustic. I was impressed by Shadow Hills as well. Very focused mids that can give larger instruments clarity without robbing them of their power. After years of live work I have found I can pretty much make any pre work on acustic, but the mic selection is critical. Since my experience recording acoustics in my room has been way too bright recordings- in a live room that I paid a respected AE to set up- I decided to go with two Lauden Atlantis mics in mid/side with a 2-610 UA stereo preamp. I know there are better tube preamps, but I couldn't afford them and I wanted a stereo preamp. The more I do this the more I think it is what works for you. I know what the acoustic guitar sound I want sounds like in acoustic/vocal songs So, we'll see.... If i don't get what I want, I'll keep searching.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 31, 2017 9:46:02 GMT -6
Thanks swurveman. I've been mulling over a few options regarding many of the songs I've done the last two years. One, I'd prefer a real drummer on most of them, and that would mean paying someone fairly and then remixing. Second, some of the vocals are edgy, but the performance is really good. I've tried to sooth the savage beast, but haven't gotten far. My problem there is I just need a U67 for my voice, and substitutes aren't quite right. I'll get there, but for now, I have to work with what I have. I've gotten much better at some things, better gain staging, more flexibility in reverb choices, 2 bus plugs dialed in a little better, etc. So the dilemma is, do I simply call it on those tracks and say they're demos, (which only makes sense if I plan to solicit them), or do I push through, get some real drums, retrack vocals, (hoping they're better, but that's iffy), and get some help mixing to eventually make a new album. I definitely don't want to repeat the process I used the last few years. Every new track I start will have a plan, and a clear production template. Usually, I fit sessions in between my work schedule, so it never feels quite like a serious session in a studio. Now, if I could only afford to, I'd head on down to Nashville, and see if some of the cats there could help me redo all of them quickly. Unfortunately, my income's been vanishing, so that's not possible right now.. That sends me back to where I started, I need to get some traction with what I have to hopefully give me a boost toward my next group of recordings. I would think this is as good a time as any to book studio time with a 67 and use theirs. Same for tracking a real drummer. Yes, this money could go for more gear, but with studio time so cheap now if you need a drummer and a U67 why wait? Your time performing your songs won't take many takes and a pro drummer, particularly if you've programmed the drums already but just don't like how your drum sequencer sounds, won't take long either.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 31, 2017 9:22:51 GMT -6
Martin,
I think you will get to the place you want faster, and learn more, by doing a remake of those songs recorded by yourself. Import the song into your DAW. Listen carefully. Learn the parts-or have musician friends learn them- record them and mix it. Listen to your version and note the differences. Were the differences in instrument choice, mic placement, mix placement in the stereo field, reverb/dely type, frequency differences, compression, depth-width-height- etc. etc.
While it would be great to have software tell you the shape of the room, whether a plate or hall reverb was used, how much bus compression, how much high end lift on the vocal etc. etc.- I don't think it's going to exist, and any simple frequency curve software isn't going to tell you those things anyway.
There may be things holding you back to getting as close as possible, but in the end you can only use the tools you have. So, using them and getting close as possible by redoing it is the best way imo.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 30, 2017 15:02:43 GMT -6
I go to the library and get the CD of the song I want to reference and then import the track into my project, outputting it to an alternative Stereo Out to my main one. Then, I solo the reference when I want to compare.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 29, 2017 10:17:01 GMT -6
Depending on what is going to be played, that's pretty critical when it comes to acoustic and preamps IMO. If it's a smooth, strummed and big bottomed I like the RTZ's or a Neve type so it'll tighten the bottom and sort of nick off the spiky transient from the pick. If it's articulate and bassy I really like the Forsell stuff. If we're talking about just listening to an acoustic being beautifully played then V72's/V76's are just hard to beat. Pair the V72's with like a C28a or KM54 type and they just goes together perfectly. That's what I keep reiterating when discussing mic and pres. It's one thing to use a modern mic with a vintage pre or vice versa but using both the mics and pre's of 'their era' is something else. A fast nickel capsule with a smooth tube pre was a particular pairing. Add to that an all analog signal path and vinyl playback... Yada, yada. A nickel capsuled mic into a modern transformerless micpre/interface streamed on Spotify?... YMMV. I would add the room and the converters in the equation. I have a pretty neutral room-some ambience- but the combination of an acoustic guitar through my schoeps cmc64->API 3124 or Vintech x73i->Aurora 16 chain has always been too bright for my tastes. I have always loved the acoustic guitar sound below, which I believe was recorded on a Quad 8 console. Thus, my interest in the Pacifica. The other concern is tape's role.....
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Post by swurveman on Jan 28, 2017 9:05:31 GMT -6
RTZ 9762 first, Telefunken V-72 second. I was impressed by your RTZ EQ demo. I'll check out their preamp, though I read it's based on a Neve, though not exactly. I have 4 Vintech's. So, I feel like I've got that ground covered, looking for something different.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 28, 2017 9:02:36 GMT -6
Sweet! I was thinking the Hardy version, or the M1! Thanks for bringing up the Hardy. I've never heard that either. I own an API 3124 and a 4 Vintech X731's. So I've got that ground covered. Apologies for not putting that in my original post.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 27, 2017 15:14:40 GMT -6
Not sure which side you are seeing that from, I'd guess getting so little. I'm almost surprised they are managing to get that much in what I 'think' that market is. All depends on engineer rep. In Orange County - Mortgage/Lease, amortizing buildout, electrical, maintenance and support staff would pretty much eat up everything they could make if booked pretty much constantly. And that doesn't figure in other capital investments. I can't imagine they can book 20+ days a month at full card. But who knows?? Maybe they can. Both Tom Brooks and Tony Guerrero have had a lot of success in the Christian Music field. Lots of money in that. This studio is located between Hope International University and Saddleback Church. I'm thinking "Master" may not be what we usually associate with recording.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 27, 2017 10:23:45 GMT -6
Very nice, I think I have seen the picture of all the mics somewhere. I saw the photo on GS.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 27, 2017 9:43:57 GMT -6
What are you stereo (mid/side/ x/y etc) guys using?
I record mostly James Taylorish fingerpicking and Pete Townshend type fingerpicking/ strumming. Never do bluegrass flatpicking.
I'd love to get two A Designs Ventura's, but too steep a cost. Thinking about the A Designs Pacifica since I have a GML 8200 for EQ.
Edit: I own an API 3124 and a 4 Vintech X731's. So I've got that ground covered and am happy with it. Looking for something different off the shelf. Not a DIY guy.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 27, 2017 8:47:23 GMT -6
I'ts in Orange County. I don't know what the rates are in LA, but this may be a viable alternative for sessions on a cost basis vs recording in the city of Los Angeles and other smaller surrounding cities - Culver City, Burbank, Santa Monica etc. Maybe our LA based cohorts will weigh in.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 26, 2017 12:43:43 GMT -6
Wish I could afford a Telefunken 251. Just love the way that mic sounds.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 25, 2017 21:50:01 GMT -6
I use a GML 8200.
All I can say is, compared to plugin EQ's, it is like comparing a sharp knife to a butter knife. I find plugin EQ's flat and dull.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 24, 2017 13:01:47 GMT -6
Yeah, but if I buy UAD's Sphere plugin, he has no right to tell me his product is better than UAD's product and that I was wrong to buy it. There is no right or wrong when buying plug ins. I'm just using a different medium than Slate in this "it's all good" relativism. @swerve Not to argue but I don't think SS is arguing with you or anybody about using what works for us or that anybody is wrong to do so ? I think he is just telling us about his gear and his spin on what is good about it, of course form his perspective which we can debate Sorry if I came off argumentative. I just saw his statement, which I thought was a part of a relativism trend, and called attention to it. Then, I elaborated on it, as qualitative relativism can be used in the comparative plugin world as well. It can be used everywhere. Now, back to my "Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" reading. LOL Sorry if I sidetracked the discussion.
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