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Post by swurveman on Jan 24, 2017 11:28:07 GMT -6
When Steven says he doesn't care, I understand that he cares deeply about what worked for that artist/engineer/producer, but doesn't care whether it is ITB or OTB: use the tools that work for you ? He'll keep making tools that blow his socks off and keep telling us all about them, again and again and again cus , you know he's SS, as an educator/communicator, he believes even more strongly in re-inforcement as a Canadian, I love his " the medium is the message mantra, eh ! Yeah, but if I buy UAD's Sphere plugin, he has no right to tell me his product is better than UAD's product and that I was wrong to buy it. There is no right or wrong when buying plug ins. I'm just using a different medium than Slate in this "it's all good" relativism.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 24, 2017 8:13:26 GMT -6
Yes, the way to get there matters but only to the person on the road. Meaning... if a guy uses a laptop to make great art, then someone who uses racks of gear and tape really doesn't have the right to tell him he's "wrong", and vice versa. Cheers, Steven I really dislike how moral relativism- " I have no right to tell anybody whether their right/wrong about quality of gear" - has creeped into marketing, though I understand why. This relativism has creeped into our culture at large. Now, powerful people are emboldened to say, "don't believe what you see, hear and feel, I/we have an 'alternate view' which is just as relevant and you have no right to tell me I'm wrong ". Imo, it's a suckers game for all but the powerful, who can capitalize from it.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 20, 2017 8:45:45 GMT -6
Is anybody using a multi channel converter on a PC with a USB connection? I'm using two Lynx Aurora's with two Aes 32 PCIE cards, which means an additional $2K in costs for the cards. The good result is that I have very little latency, both on tracking and hybrid mixing. It is much less expensive to buy a 32 channel Orion and hook it up via a USB connection, but the voice in my head that says "you get what you pay for" is skeptical.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 20, 2017 8:28:47 GMT -6
The guitars are using haas effect and I think its possible the drums are using sample and real and possibly using haas effect too. Its a cool mix. Yeah, in the intro you can hear the original chord riff very wide, while the single note riff is tucked a bit inside. Great use of space overall.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 18, 2017 11:54:53 GMT -6
My Universal Audio 1176 is quiet. On the other hand my LA2A is quite noisy. I haven't heard the other versions.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 18, 2017 10:44:46 GMT -6
I was listening to this ac/dc rock song today and the drum kit/sound was very held and centered in the middle with it's own room sound, while the guitars were panned with their own room sound, but it all blended together beautifully imo. I tried to imitate this in my DAW by narrowing my Drum Bus and any stereo mics feeding it and narrowing the room, but I could not focus it while blending it with the stereo guitars. I'm wondering if there's something else going on? Like all music, you can hear it much better with your studio monitors. Note: I know people will want to compare old ac/dc from new. I'm mostly interested in this mix. Thanks! The drums are wider panned than you think you hear. I've run into that a few times trying to mix stuff folks have tracked in "mono". The extra wide, and full, guitars make them seem more narrow in comparison. As for the guitars, it could be two amps, with both Haas widening (increased delay between them make them seem further apart) and a little slow chorus to give them some difference in phase, but it's 99% that it's just double/quad tracked guitars. This has a lot of HP/LP and gating/expansion going on. Start ruthlessly cutting anything that doesn't need to exist in the frequency spectrum. The clearest example in the song is the guitars, there is nothing going on above 2K-3K on them at all. That's a good call, because it allows the grit in the vocals to stand out without needing to boost or enhance anything. They certainly focused on a few regions. The guitars are cut low so that the vocals have room above them. The kick fundamental is lower than the bass guitar. The bass has a round low-mid bump without much for grit or harmonics that take away from the guitars or vocals. They let the guitar take up most of the mids and low-mids. The cymbals take up most of the high mids above the vocals. They let the vocal effects drift around the upper mids through the highs to give it more of an airy ambiance. I think the takeaway is that the pre-production probably spent a lot of time getting everything tuned and set up to be recorded this way and the mix just exaggerated the separation that the production setup created. Thanks for your thought svart. Yes, it's a marvelous example of frequency construction. As for the snare, I'm gonna also look into keying/expanding a room mic and see if that makes the snare punchier with a sense of space.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 18, 2017 9:46:16 GMT -6
Double tracked guitars for sure. That's the only way to get them super wide like that. I almost wonder how real any of the drums are. The kit could totally be sampled/triggered. The cymbals have very precise placement. There doesn't seem to be much (if any) snare in the hats. If there isn't a bunch of replacement happening, it's VERY precision micing in my opinion. Thanks for your reply Jesse, Maybe the kick and snare are coming from solely from samples and the overheads have snare/kick filtered out? Still there's this depth as well that is centered. Perhaps it's an ambient snare that's gated? The snare is huge, but there's no decay sound. And the kick snare sound like they're in the same space.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 18, 2017 8:55:38 GMT -6
I was listening to this ac/dc rock song today and the drum kit/sound was very held and centered in the middle with it's own room sound, while the guitars were panned with their own room sound, but it all blended together beautifully imo.
I tried to imitate this in my DAW by narrowing my Drum Bus and any stereo mics feeding it and narrowing the room, but I could not focus it while blending it with the stereo guitars. I'm wondering if there's something else going on?
Like all music, you can hear it much better with your studio monitors.
Note: I know people will want to compare old ac/dc from new. I'm mostly interested in this mix. Thanks!
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Post by swurveman on Jan 16, 2017 17:01:03 GMT -6
Hell yes, I'm a technologist. But for "technologists," musicians would be far and few. Most of us would be out on the farm working our fingers to the bone picking cotton to make our own clothes and worrying about how a bad crop might make it hard to get through the next winter. In your doomsday scenario where AI machines do everything for us, anyone who wants to can go to music school and pretty much do and be whatever they want. What is Orwellian about that? You've made up your mind this is a better model. That's fine with me.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 16, 2017 15:04:39 GMT -6
I think this is a dead on assessment, and agree completely. Hopefully there will be a shift in what seems to be an unstoppable trend. Hey, I was at a guy's studio yesterday and he had your Silver Bullet and raved about it. I smiled and thought, "I know that guy!".
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Post by swurveman on Jan 16, 2017 14:49:07 GMT -6
indiehouse , I don't think anyone here thinks that you're less legitimate. I certainly don't. I don't either.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 16, 2017 14:23:19 GMT -6
Well, swurveman , I'm a pretty mediocre drummer at best... but I have recorded a helluva lot of drums and those ROCK! So clearly, the microphones are doing their job in capturing killer tone! Yes, I agree. I originally heard this as one of three pairs of mics in a shootout where they didn't give the results. One set was duller than others and I feared it was the Atlantis. However, I was pleasantly surprised to hear how good these sounded.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 16, 2017 14:16:29 GMT -6
I'm not sure what the distinction is between musicians and bands and A/E people, which I interpreted to mean arts and entertainment. And yes, 30-40 years ago there was a community of bands and musicians who had interactions playing club dates together, playing as studio musicians and getting paid a living wage to do so. Simultaneously, they were going into recording studios to record cover and original music and the industry was thriving at a local, state and national level. 30-40 years ago the average musician did care, precisely because there were a tier of venues, where the better sounding bands and singer songwriters got paid more by the bigger venues if they sounded better. And they cared deeply in differentiating their sound precisely because they wanted to get to the upper tiers where the money was better. So, they went into studios with a well rehearsed band and- depending on which tier they were in financially- went into the tiered system of studios to sound better and struggle to get better, get more fans and make more money. There were also many more people with jobs involved in listening and evaluating music. From local disc jockey's to local promoter's to local studio owners, many people were invested, cared and competing at being better. It was a healthy capitalist model that was well dispersed across the nation. Yes, it's been a catastrophe on many levels. The technologists have won in what is essentially an economic revolution. Technology has opened up the floodgates of expression, but has simultaneously ruined the music and other art based businesses. And it's going to get worse, or better depending on how you look at it. The next wave of robotics is coming, which means that jobs like cabbies, truck drivers, food servers and anything that can be done robotically are going to be gone. This will lead to even less money circulating for arts. However, the technologists have this figured out. The non working populace will get a stipend and can sit in their homes, make music at their leisure and put it on the internet without having to do anything else. It's a paupers valhalla, or an orwellian nightmare depending on your point of view. You are precisely what the technologist's want, though I realize you came from a time when you didn't make a lot of money playing live compared to when the model was at its peak. I have no quarrel with your right to live your life the way you want, but philosophically I disagree with the entire model. I think the best things come out of struggle and competition in a moneyed reward system. 30-40 years ago, the music business was based on the struggle/competition/money reward system on a local, state and national level, because there was a large working class with money to spend on music, created full time by people making a living from it on many levels. That's all gone now for the most part. Some of us are raging at the dying light, but there's no escaping the direction we're heading, which is Tech's dream state.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 16, 2017 11:17:11 GMT -6
My dealer gave me this demo of the Atlantis being used as overheads. If any drummers want to comment your opinion would be appreciated.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/songflowerrecording/lauten-atlantis-overheads
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Post by swurveman on Jan 16, 2017 11:01:49 GMT -6
I've got a large duct chase running across the middle of my studio, reducing the height from 8 feet to 7 feet. Hard to trump that. We adapt and endure.... My max height is 6'4.5". Do you record drums in the room? Edit: Ooops. Saw that you're using edrums. I hired an acoustics guy and he compensated for my 8' ceilings in the tracking portion of the room by doing a checkerboard of 2'x2'x2" panels and cheap diffusors.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 16, 2017 10:56:13 GMT -6
I've got a large duct chase running across the middle of my studio, reducing the height from 8 feet to 7 feet. Hard to trump that. We adapt and endure.... I did as well, so I enclosed it in a thin drywall tunnel. Even though it's low (around 7ft too), it's almost invisible compared to what it was before. After I did the paint, I'd SWEAR that my mixes are different. Things just seem different, but I don't know if I'm fooling myself, or if my frame of mind changed with the surroundings.. Mine is drywalled as well. I've always was worried about what it was doing to the room acoustics. So, I hired an acoustics guy who told me to put my desk under it and put cloud panels overhead.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 16, 2017 10:28:22 GMT -6
Ahh.. It looks like you've got the 45 o roof line thing going on.. As you know, I'm dealing with similar. How do you feel about that? I keep thinking of it as a double-edged sword. One the one hand, it cuts into volume (and makes dealing with space a bitch), but on the other, it gives you ready-made non-parallel surfaces. Maybe not of the optimal variety, but.. My room is probably the worst room of anyone here. Horrible, horrible, space. Here's an old thread with renderings. realgearonline.com/thread/2104/treat-roomI've got a large duct chase running across the middle of my studio, reducing the height from 8 feet to 7 feet. Hard to trump that. We adapt and endure....
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Post by swurveman on Jan 16, 2017 8:28:37 GMT -6
Recorded through plugins, for that polished flattened sound! You want lifeless? We'll give you lifeless! Thanks for your reply ward. My original impression of the snare sound was that it sounded like something I could get with Superior Drummer. It's too bad nobody seems to own this mic to give an impression of it. It really sounds great on acoustic guitar with two mics mid/side. My concern is that it's a little dark and not quick enough to capture the transients of the snare for overheads.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 15, 2017 16:42:21 GMT -6
I found this clip online with the Atlantis used as overheads. They snare sounds flat to me, with not a lot of punch. Could be the snare, could be the mics.
Any opinions?
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Post by swurveman on Jan 15, 2017 14:42:29 GMT -6
I listened to a friends recording of acoustic guitar with two Lauten Atlantis FC387's in mid/side and was really impressed with how they sounded.
I was wondering whether anybody owns a pair and has used them as drum overheads?
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Post by swurveman on Jan 15, 2017 9:26:00 GMT -6
My complaint is that I'm competing against folks who get a few pieces of gear from GC, and call themselves studios, and it's killing me and other studios who have spent tons of their own money to keep going. You think it's as easy as having good demos, but as Swurveman mentions, it's just not that simple, and those of us who do care are completely frustrated by it, and by baseless accusations that fly when you vent frustration.. I do think it's very hard for people who want to make a living as a studio owner when you are competing against people who have well paying jobs who, as a hobby, record bands for next to nothing. This guy is a college professor. His wife also has a good job. Income from music is not important to him. However, he is passionate about what he is doing and is aggressively courting bands. It's just the reality of the situation. Like I said, I really liked him. However, if I wanted to live off my music income I'd be distressed by having to compete with him. I would have to develop tactics to show why paying more was worth it.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 18:22:25 GMT -6
The compression characteristic isn't hard to get right if you have a decent T4 (thank you Bill at Kenetek). And, FWIW, I don't think LA2As are even great as compressors. They don't handle much GR without choking and offer little control. Most people I know use them because of the polish, the finished, "radio-ready" feel they add. That's where they're absolutely brilliant, IMO. It's common to use them with little to no gain reduction just for "that sound" of running through the circuit. That's my fascination with the LA2A, getting that sweetness and gloss to come through. It's hard to explain sound, but choking as I understand it sounds nothing like my UA LA-2A reissue. I often have 20 db of gain reduction and don't feel a choking sound at at all. What I hear on a vocal sounds like a rubber band stretching, but in a wonderfully pleasing way. It has a wonderful interplay with the dynamic range of the singer.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 17:31:15 GMT -6
Great video. Thanks donr
As an aside, invariably in these studio type videos you see what looks like Neumann U87/87's all over the place.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 14:45:20 GMT -6
I have the LA-2A reissue. Love it. I've never heard the WA-2A but am curious.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 14:38:49 GMT -6
Do you guys call bands that record at other studios and show them why the mix they got is inferior? Here's why I ask: A guy called me and said he got my name from a mutual friend. He owns a local home studio and wanted to network with passionate people about music. He was a really nice guy and we discussed gear as he was particularly interested in my Bricasti and my Smart C2. Then, he shared one of his songs on Dropbox that he recorded and mixed for a local band. We listened to it and compared it to the reference track the band wanted to sound like, which was a generic teenage punk/pop song. Immediately, he heard that there was no depth on his mix compared to the reference, and that fizzy Kemper sound was annoyingly loud compared to the bass and drums. He said to me, "Gee, I can hear reverb much better here." and "I have a problem mixing guitars too loud because I really like the sound of them". Then he said, "Oh well the band liked it" and told me that he gives all the bands a free song to bring them into his studio and then charges $10.00 an hour. If the band can't hear the difference between their song and the reference, the only way I can compete with him is to get to now the bands and bring them into my studio and show them the difference between their mix vs the reference. My guess is that the band can hear the difference, but they know that they paid $10/hour for a demo quality product and got about the quality they expected. Budget was the factor that lead to their decisions. If they could afford $40/hour or whatever, they would have higher expectations. You'll love this. He said the song was 72 tracks, mostly guitars. Yowza.
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