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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 14:03:50 GMT -6
What do you guys do to compete with other studios?
Here's why I ask:
A guy called me and said he got my name from a mutual friend. He owns a local home studio and wanted to network with passionate people about music.
He was a really nice guy and we discussed gear as he was particularly interested in my Bricasti and my Smart C2.
Then, he shared one of his songs on Dropbox that he recorded and mixed for a local band. We listened to it and compared it to the reference track the band wanted to sound like, which was a generic teenage punk/pop song. Immediately, he heard that there was no depth on his mix compared to the reference, and that fizzy Kemper sound was annoyingly loud compared to the bass and drums. He said to me, "Gee, I can hear reverb much better here." and "I have a problem mixing guitars too loud because I really like the sound of them". Then he said, "Oh well the band liked it" and told me that he gives all the bands a free song to bring them into his studio and then charges $10.00 an hour.
If the band can't hear the difference between their song and the reference, the only way I can compete with him is to get to know the bands and bring them into my studio and show them the difference between their mix vs the reference.
Does anybody do this?
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 14, 2017 14:15:54 GMT -6
So what your thinking about doing is cold calling prospective clients and telling them that in your biased opinion the work they paid for and the artistic opinions they might have been apart of sucks? Great Idea !
If you want to go out of Buisness!
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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 14:19:13 GMT -6
So what your thinking about doing is cold calling prospective clients and telling them that in your biased opinion the work they paid for and the artistic opinions they might have been apart of sucks? Great Idea ! If you want to go out of Buisness! I agree that cold calling is wrong. I edited my original post based on your reasoning. Thanks. However, if I made a connection over time out and about the clubs, and then brought them into the studio and had them listen to their mix vs the reference without mentioning the former studio, would you still consider that bad business?
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Post by Bender on Jan 14, 2017 14:19:49 GMT -6
Dicey, on one hand its great to network and get to know the competition/scenesters in your area, but I'm not entirely sure I'd be calling out other clients directly & saying XYZ is wrong with blah blah blah's work.
I mean all is fair in love & war IMO, but to some that tactic may be perceived as aggressive/snakey by the competitors...and stirring the pot can indeed come back to bite you...
With that said though, there's nothing wrong with reaching out to acts and putting a more positive spin on it/selling your services- but yeah I agree with Eric you if that's what you meant. Either way if what you meant was bringing in folks to just listen to their track vs refrences... That wouldn't sell me as an artist..but then again I know better. It's all about the production,song etc......and then the gear, mixing, mastering etc.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 14:26:57 GMT -6
Dicey, on one hand its great to network and get to know the competition/scenesters in your area, but I'm not entirely sure I'd be calling out other clients directly & saying XYZ is wrong with blah blah blah's work. I mean all is fair in love & war IMO, but to some that tactic may be perceived as aggressive/snakey by the competitors...and stirring the pot can indeed come back to bite you... With that said though, there's nothing wrong with reaching out to acts and putting a more positive spin on it/selling your services- but yeah I agree with Eric you if that's what you meant. Either way if what you meant was bringing in folks to just listen to their track vs refrences... That wouldn't sell me as an artist..but then again I know better. It's all about the production,song etc......and then the gear, mixing, mastering etc. I agree with Eric that calling out of the cold is the wrong way to go. However, I'm not sure that asking somebody from a band-after making a solid connection- to come to your studio and compare their latest song to the reference they used is snakey. I wouldn't have to mention the studio owner at all. It just becomes about sound. How's that? Dicey?
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Post by drbill on Jan 14, 2017 14:28:31 GMT -6
Compete with what? $0.00 an hour. $10 and hour? Even $20 an hour? It's a waste of time. Record what turns you on, and forget the "competition". When you record stuff that matters to you, your output will show it. If you become known as the guy that gets the great sounds (because you're recording music you love), then you don't have to compete with guys who really don't know their stuff. You're winning already. If the bands can't tell the difference, then why bother? They will almost certainly not be something to be proud of if they can't hear simple differences like you pointed out above.
Obviously you're not buying top end gear like you have with money from selling "studio time". So start producing and holding creative content as "payment". Become an recording entrepreneur instead of fighting the bottom of the barrel for gigs.
Swureman - this is most definitely NOT pointed towards you, but it seems appropriate for this discussion. On another thread bemoaning the lack of experience, lack of talent and lack of discernment of hipsters and "kiddos" in the music scene in their areas, it's really obvious that some really don't respect and like recording young bands anyway - but are hung up on the fact that they can't seem to draw them in to record no matter how hard or what methods they try. LOL Sad really. That kind of attitude bleeds through everything from "OK-ing" a take to choosing mics to picking an amp tone. Maybe that's why some are having a hard time drawing people in. Beyond an excellent track record, excitement for a persons/band's project might just be the #1 thing that gets you gigs. No one wants to work with people who don't respect them, no matter how inexperienced they are.
Good luck getting the gig. IME, becoming a producer of music rather than trying to compete will get you where you want to be. Cheers, bp
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 14, 2017 14:37:03 GMT -6
Do you guys call bands that record at other studios and show them why the mix they got is inferior? Here's why I ask: A guy called me and said he got my name from a mutual friend. He owns a local home studio and wanted to network with passionate people about music. He was a really nice guy and we discussed gear as he was particularly interested in my Bricasti and my Smart C2. Then, he shared one of his songs on Dropbox that he recorded and mixed for a local band. We listened to it and compared it to the reference track the band wanted to sound like, which was a generic teenage punk/pop song. Immediately, he heard that there was no depth on his mix compared to the reference, and that fizzy Kemper sound was annoyingly loud compared to the bass and drums. He said to me, "Gee, I can hear reverb much better here." and "I have a problem mixing guitars too loud because I really like the sound of them". Then he said, "Oh well the band liked it" and told me that he gives all the bands a free song to bring them into his studio and then charges $10.00 an hour. If the band can't hear the difference between their song and the reference, the only way I can compete with him is to get to now the bands and bring them into my studio and show them the difference between their mix vs the reference. My guess is that the band can hear the difference, but they know that they paid $10/hour for a demo quality product and got about the quality they expected. Budget was the factor that lead to their decisions. If they could afford $40/hour or whatever, they would have higher expectations.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 14:37:18 GMT -6
Compete with what? $0.00 an hour. $10 and hour? Even $20 an hour? It's a waste of time. Record what turns you on, and forget the "competition". When you record stuff that matters to you, your output will show it. If you become known as the guy that gets the great sounds (because you're recording music you love), then you don't have to compete with guys who really don't know their stuff. You're winning already. If the bands can't tell the difference, then why bother? They will almost certainly not be something to be proud of if they can't hear simple differences like you pointed out above. Obviously you're not buying top end gear like you have with money from selling "studio time". So start producing and holding creative content as "payment". Become an recording entrepreneur instead of fighting the bottom of the barrel for gigs. Yes, I thought about this as well. For all the time spent networking, recording and mixing other people, I can spend all that energy writing and producing songs for tv and film. Thanks for your thoughts!
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Post by swurveman on Jan 14, 2017 14:38:49 GMT -6
Do you guys call bands that record at other studios and show them why the mix they got is inferior? Here's why I ask: A guy called me and said he got my name from a mutual friend. He owns a local home studio and wanted to network with passionate people about music. He was a really nice guy and we discussed gear as he was particularly interested in my Bricasti and my Smart C2. Then, he shared one of his songs on Dropbox that he recorded and mixed for a local band. We listened to it and compared it to the reference track the band wanted to sound like, which was a generic teenage punk/pop song. Immediately, he heard that there was no depth on his mix compared to the reference, and that fizzy Kemper sound was annoyingly loud compared to the bass and drums. He said to me, "Gee, I can hear reverb much better here." and "I have a problem mixing guitars too loud because I really like the sound of them". Then he said, "Oh well the band liked it" and told me that he gives all the bands a free song to bring them into his studio and then charges $10.00 an hour. If the band can't hear the difference between their song and the reference, the only way I can compete with him is to get to now the bands and bring them into my studio and show them the difference between their mix vs the reference. My guess is that the band can hear the difference, but they know that they paid $10/hour for a demo quality product and got about the quality they expected. Budget was the factor that lead to their decisions. If they could afford $40/hour or whatever, they would have higher expectations. You'll love this. He said the song was 72 tracks, mostly guitars. Yowza.
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Post by terryrocks on Jan 14, 2017 15:09:20 GMT -6
Yes, I thought about this as well. For all the time spent networking, recording and mixing other people, I can spend all that energy writing and producing songs for tv and film. Thanks for your thoughts! I'm in the same place. Portland has tons of solid project studios and it's very hard to procure clients unless you are in the scene and friends of friends. Even at a crazy low rate of $25/hr I can't get any clients. Considering my day job pays more than twice that per hour, it is just not worth my time to track other people. So, I've gone the other direction and recruited several solid drummers to help me produce stuff for licensing. Haven't sold anything yet, but also haven't begun trying to sell yet. Writing and arranging takes up most of the time.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 14, 2017 15:28:15 GMT -6
If somebody is looking at $10 an hour to pay for my time to record.... then it's not worth my time. I'd rather be doing something else. They obviously either don't take themselves seriously, don't take your time seriously, or they seriously suck.
Is it really worth your time to sit and listen to something recorded so badly that no matter how much time you spend, you're still stuck with something that is mediocre?
To me, that work (and I did plenty of it when I was low man on the totem pole) leads to frustrations on the engineers side, frustration on the band's side as they are expecting better results (even when only willing to part with $10 an hour), and what winds up happening is you create unsatisfied clients and not really gaining much in the process. They go around and tell their buddies that you weren't able to do a good job, when reality is that they just plain aren't very good.
YMMV of course.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 14, 2017 15:32:12 GMT -6
I end up with about 75 -100 before printing stems and fx... Gotta love ITB 🤠
I also feel that most people don't hear the value in paying for mixing... I swear anytime I play any good mix for a consumer style listener ( or their fave song ) I can point out 10-15 different things that they will say they never have heard before... I know my " ears " had to be trained and skill applied daily to improve my " ears " and likewise the better the room and the monitoring the easier life is... can't mix what you can't hear.. Cheers 🍻
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 14, 2017 16:59:33 GMT -6
So what your thinking about doing is cold calling prospective clients and telling them that in your biased opinion the work they paid for and the artistic opinions they might have been apart of sucks? Great Idea ! If you want to go out of Buisness! I agree that cold calling is wrong. I edited my original post based on your reasoning. Thanks. However, if I made a connection over time out and about the clubs, and then brought them into the studio and had them listen to their mix vs the reference without mentioning the former studio, would you still consider that bad business? You miss a huge point, while In my opinion your judgement of the mix is more in line with most here, WE ARE NOT THE CLIENT! Honesty if you want to come off as an arogent condescending prick, go for it! But you miss a huge point they maybe happy that could be what they want! Your method will piss off potential clients and Other producers engineers and studio owners! You don't know where your going to be in 3 days or 3 years, these guys could be resources you need in the future! Build your rep on your work, let the client judge don't be the guy who explains why he's better, if they ask you to try mixing go for it, let them judge! Here is the hardest lesson you can learn doing audio for others; what you think means SHIT! WHAT THE GUY WHO IS PAYING THINKS IS GOLDEN! If you approach others projects based on what you want, find another vocation, because it always has been and always will be about the guy who pays the bills!
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Post by M57 on Jan 14, 2017 20:23:51 GMT -6
$10/hr? Really? You can make more money flipping burgers for the man with 0 overhead - and your equipment will stay minty fresh.
Wasn't there a recent thread here about A/E's putting even more unpaid personal time on a project just because their name is on it and they want the product to sound as good as possible? If success in the business is about building a reputation, you need to decide right up front what kind of reputation you want to build. Your choices - dirt cheap or consummate professional. It can't be both. And it's pretty clear which one is an unsustainable business model.
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Post by bowie on Jan 14, 2017 21:06:28 GMT -6
With the explosion of the pro-sumer market, this was inevitable. Like any other service or product, if the customer can recognise a difference, and cares about the difference, then you don't have to compete with the $10/hr guys because your clients are shopping a different level of quality. I understand your frustration in trying to figure out how to educate the unaware as to what a good recording is. I can't offer a lot of help there but I can tell you that word of mouth is a powerful thing and if you are leaving your clients happy, that will do more advertising and educating than you ever could on your own. That goes beyond just the quality of the product. People can record at any number of places these days. If they record with someone who loves what they do, makes them feel good about their music, and who can turn a very tense process into something uplifting, then you have a much better chance of earning their business, and their friend's business. And, it makes your job easier as their performances will be better.
It's not something you can fake, but if you have that sort of personality, embrace it and make it work for you in your business.
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 14, 2017 22:55:45 GMT -6
$10 an hour..... That's what it's come to now. I've never and I mean even when I was an intern made less than $25 an hour and that was in someone else's studio. What the hell is this business coming to when people are worried about competing with someone who's willing to accept $10 an hour to record bands. Let them do it, all day long let them do it and charge enough to pay your bills. He'll never keep that afloat unless he's got a giant trust fund.
I charge for my work and I charge enough to pay my bills. Plus, I can sleep good at night knowing that I'm not giving my work away for free just to get someone to use me, and also that I'm not undercutting the other guy doing the same thing half mile away who's got 2 kids in college and overhead.
If people would ever just understand that you don't have to freaking cut your damn rates to nothing then everyone would make money because there is and will always be plenty of bands and artist that want to record. The problem is they've gotten spoiled on people doing these free mixes and unrealistic rates that they don't even realize what this type of thing should cost.
In my day of co-owning a full out multi-room studio in a commercial area with an SSL and every mic and piece of outboard you can imagine we hung a sign on the door that simply said "No matter what you're recording, it's $2,000 a day or $300 an hour." That was our rate for walk-ins. For label work we always priced that out by Album or EP, but worked with points on the backend quite a bit if we felt the band had promise. We also had living quarters and a car for the bands that flew in. That's what had to be done if we wanted to have salaries and keep the lights burning.
Now days it seems like guys are getting four or five credit cards so they have $30k in credit and just maxing those babies out and opening a "recording studio." Just not how it works when you're talking about running a sustainable business and it's just pure sad. Its diluting the freaking market. If these guys that are opening "studios" realized that if they'd get out the way and put in the hard work by working at an actual studio they could rise to the top the way everyone who's up there has done. Seriously, every person I know in this town that makes good money and either has a Grammy or puts music in the top 50 had to work their way up, they didn't just max a bunch of credit cards and say they have a studio and charge nearly nothing because they're just making the minimum payments on all the cards they maxed, no, they worked under talented people, learned from them, and finally when demand for them personally got high enough and they had enough cash saved up they got their own room and went from there. My mix room is in my house, but I chose it that way and love it. My room and rig fits me just right and I'm going to charge for my work because I'm worth it and If I had to stoop to mixing songs for $100 then I'd just go on and find something else to do. I just today met a kid that set up shop in his parents basement, came up with a snazzy looking website and he's a flipping studio owner. If you want to weed these people out just start talking about the technical parts of gear, converters and what they do and how they do it etc. If they have a dear in the headlights look it means they have no clue what they just maxed their credit cards or spent their parents retirement money on.
This is my rant, sorry if it offends anyone here and it's not aimed at that at all and those that know me know where I'm coming from.
-J
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 23:29:08 GMT -6
$10 an hour..... That's what it's come to now. -J The USA seems late to the party, in the UK (for the most part) the live music scene is none existent and venue's for the most part have shut down.. Due to DIY'ers all proper studio's I know of have dissapeared, the only place you can actually record is band practice rooms (the one's that can stay afloat anyway).. The one's mad enough to try and record others probably will charge that sort of money. It didn't used to be like this, 15 years ago and you'd be guranteed to get a paid gig if you could pull together a small demo that didn't sound like absolute crap. They needed bands more than we needed them and there were so many rock / metal venue's about you could pick and choose. If you're a platinum winning pop singer you'll probably sell out in 10 minutes though, which is something I suppose? I bolted that sinking ship a long while back ago, although it's a sad state of affairs really. If anyone around me asked if they should setup a studio around here, my first piece of advice would be don't bother. Like most creative mediums, there's far more money in selling the shovels..!
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Post by rowmat on Jan 15, 2017 0:09:17 GMT -6
So far all of our work has been word of mouth via my studio partner. We currently charge $500 per 10 hour day plus session player fees. We don't advertise or seek out clients. They come to us based on what they've heard. Our web site will go on line this year but we will vet any clients before we agree to record them. Not having high overheads makes this possible and bearable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 2:49:11 GMT -6
No big studios left around here. Few smaller ones charging about £30 an hour. edit: just for context local garage charges £60 an hour.viva x box.....
Actually, how does this vinyl thing fit in now - you can't do that in your home studio, or can you? How about hooking up with a mastering studio that deals with vinyl and mastering for iTtunes and offering a package?
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Post by jjinvegas on Jan 15, 2017 4:50:26 GMT -6
You can complain about the new realities, or adapt or punt. Here in Las Vegas, for example, not thought of as a recording hot spot although there has always been places of varying quality, three different "education" enterprises are currently teaching the fine art of applying for student loans, er, I mean digital recording. I am sure this is the situation in every metro area. Even as there a no advertised openings for even your intern/janitor. Promoting their programs on television, even. And I guess that even if there is a disconnect between opportunity and the worth of their certification, it would seem a little selfish to deny others their wish to know more about what many here enjoy or pursue professionally. And if you sign up for anything related to recording, be it Facebook groups or even look at the gear on Amazon, e.g., you are going to eventually be targeted with opportunities to spend money learning from all sorts of folks, some well-known, some hopeful, some just possibly opportunistic. This should give a person pause, when someone who has won multiple Grammy and AES awards for engineering or production, and they are on youtube tutorials instead of working. The idea that these people flooding the market with inexpensive services should just clear out so that those who previously had a clearer path is wishful thinking at best, and smacks of elitism more likely. The barriers to multi-track experience created by the sheer cost of hardware is a distant memory, and really is a gift to creators, even if some find the business unpalatable now. In the final result, it will create better engineers and producers, as they will invariably be forced to learn more roles to work, and as the competition is greater, so also will be the skillset required to rise above. Okay, in truth it kind of sucks, because supply and demand is huge in what you can command in the market. Better get awfully good, and be very steadfast in developing relationships and staying a step ahead on some front. It is clear that without musical ability, it is going to limit what you can do. If you are still fairly new at the game, learning to play piano is not a bad idea, the marriage of MIDI and audio is the true revolution and you can't really exploit that without some keyboard knowledge. And despite some people's protestations about what is fair and smart in terms of acquiring customers, I had a more practical "guerilla" mentality when a building and more hardware was required. I wrote a recording column for a weekly under a nom de plume, just to have a pretense to call the competition and find out who they were recording. Not so much for poaching immediately, but lots of times projects don't make it to release and it was handy to know people who were willing to spend money for future reference. Obviously before the advent of CL, I used to work the bulletin boards at music stores and call everybody who was looking for a member, not necessarily to pitch them on recording as much as to just meet new and possibly interesting people. I had a big "bible" with phone numbers of hundreds of various people that I would call to chat when i wasn't working, just being interested and friendly. Trust me, it works. If you don't like people, or artists, and identify with their struggles and care to lend a helping hand whenever you can, you are not cut out for this life. And if you aren't perceived as caring about projects ten times as much as the customer, while actually caring twenty times more, eventually that is probAbly going to spell your eventual phasing out of a scene. Or you could become a Walmart greeter, probably more money in the long run....smile....cheers....
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 15, 2017 7:43:59 GMT -6
I think fishing someone's client because you think you can do it better is a dangerous route. It's an incredibly petty act for the money involved and considering the guy was reaching out to you, it's a total betrayal of his trust.
If you want to do this, start going to some gigs and start talking to bands. That's where you'll meet them, and if you're sympathetic to the kind of music they like (ie. willing to pay to see bands of that style) then you're likely to get in and get referred to by these bands. The internets well and good, but you still can't beat a good face-to-face.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 15, 2017 7:58:33 GMT -6
What do you guys do to compete with other studios? Here's why I ask: A guy called me and said he got my name from a mutual friend. He owns a local home studio and wanted to network with passionate people about music. He was a really nice guy and we discussed gear as he was particularly interested in my Bricasti and my Smart C2. Then, he shared one of his songs on Dropbox that he recorded and mixed for a local band. We listened to it and compared it to the reference track the band wanted to sound like, which was a generic teenage punk/pop song. Immediately, he heard that there was no depth on his mix compared to the reference, and that fizzy Kemper sound was annoyingly loud compared to the bass and drums. He said to me, "Gee, I can hear reverb much better here." and "I have a problem mixing guitars too loud because I really like the sound of them". Then he said, "Oh well the band liked it" and told me that he gives all the bands a free song to bring them into his studio and then charges $10.00 an hour. If the band can't hear the difference between their song and the reference, the only way I can compete with him is to get to know the bands and bring them into my studio and show them the difference between their mix vs the reference. Does anybody do this? Collaboration was completely killed when the zero years arrived. Don't ask me why, but out of a sudden everybody had the competition syndrome.
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Post by svart on Jan 15, 2017 8:50:22 GMT -6
Compete with what? $0.00 an hour. $10 and hour? Even $20 an hour? It's a waste of time. Record what turns you on, and forget the "competition". When you record stuff that matters to you, your output will show it. If you become known as the guy that gets the great sounds (because you're recording music you love), then you don't have to compete with guys who really don't know their stuff. You're winning already. If the bands can't tell the difference, then why bother? They will almost certainly not be something to be proud of if they can't hear simple differences like you pointed out above. Obviously you're not buying top end gear like you have with money from selling "studio time". So start producing and holding creative content as "payment". Become an recording entrepreneur instead of fighting the bottom of the barrel for gigs. Swureman - this is most definitely NOT pointed towards you, but it seems appropriate for this discussion. On another thread bemoaning the lack of experience, lack of talent and lack of discernment of hipsters and "kiddos" in the music scene in their areas, it's really obvious that some really don't respect and like recording young bands anyway - but are hung up on the fact that they can't seem to draw them in to record no matter how hard or what methods they try. LOL Sad really. That kind of attitude bleeds through everything from "OK-ing" a take to choosing mics to picking an amp tone. Maybe that's why some are having a hard time drawing people in. Beyond an excellent track record, excitement for a persons/band's project might just be the #1 thing that gets you gigs. No one wants to work with people who don't respect them, no matter how inexperienced they are. Good luck getting the gig. IME, becoming a producer of music rather than trying to compete will get you where you want to be. Cheers, bp Gee, I wonder who you're talking about.. And you're completely wrong about me, and my complaint. I love recording bands. I make very little money at it, but do it anyway because I do care. My complaint is that I'm competing against folks who get a few pieces of gear from GC, and call themselves studios, and it's killing me and other studios who have spent tons of their own money to keep going. You think it's as easy as having good demos, but as Swurveman mentions, it's just not that simple, and those of us who do care are completely frustrated by it, and by baseless accusations that fly when you vent frustration.. You seem to have it good, and that's great for you, but you've lost touch with those in the trenches because of it. You're probably on autopilot from work you did years ago, but if you had to start up now, you'd be sunk like the rest of us struggling to keep going and compete with the thousands of bedroom studios out there. But by all means, keep up with the holier-than-thou attitude. It's charming.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 15, 2017 9:26:00 GMT -6
My complaint is that I'm competing against folks who get a few pieces of gear from GC, and call themselves studios, and it's killing me and other studios who have spent tons of their own money to keep going. You think it's as easy as having good demos, but as Swurveman mentions, it's just not that simple, and those of us who do care are completely frustrated by it, and by baseless accusations that fly when you vent frustration.. I do think it's very hard for people who want to make a living as a studio owner when you are competing against people who have well paying jobs who, as a hobby, record bands for next to nothing. This guy is a college professor. His wife also has a good job. Income from music is not important to him. However, he is passionate about what he is doing and is aggressively courting bands. It's just the reality of the situation. Like I said, I really liked him. However, if I wanted to live off my music income I'd be distressed by having to compete with him. I would have to develop tactics to show why paying more was worth it.
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Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2017 9:48:57 GMT -6
Compete with what? $0.00 an hour. $10 and hour? Even $20 an hour? It's a waste of time. Record what turns you on, and forget the "competition". When you record stuff that matters to you, your output will show it. If you become known as the guy that gets the great sounds (because you're recording music you love), then you don't have to compete with guys who really don't know their stuff. You're winning already. If the bands can't tell the difference, then why bother? They will almost certainly not be something to be proud of if they can't hear simple differences like you pointed out above. Obviously you're not buying top end gear like you have with money from selling "studio time". So start producing and holding creative content as "payment". Become an recording entrepreneur instead of fighting the bottom of the barrel for gigs. Swureman - this is most definitely NOT pointed towards you, but it seems appropriate for this discussion. On another thread bemoaning the lack of experience, lack of talent and lack of discernment of hipsters and "kiddos" in the music scene in their areas, it's really obvious that some really don't respect and like recording young bands anyway - but are hung up on the fact that they can't seem to draw them in to record no matter how hard or what methods they try. LOL Sad really. That kind of attitude bleeds through everything from "OK-ing" a take to choosing mics to picking an amp tone. Maybe that's why some are having a hard time drawing people in. Beyond an excellent track record, excitement for a persons/band's project might just be the #1 thing that gets you gigs. No one wants to work with people who don't respect them, no matter how inexperienced they are. Good luck getting the gig. IME, becoming a producer of music rather than trying to compete will get you where you want to be. Cheers, bp Gee, I wonder who you're talking about.. And you're completely wrong about me, and my complaint. I love recording bands. I make very little money at it, but do it anyway because I do care. My complaint is that I'm competing against folks who get a few pieces of gear from GC, and call themselves studios, and it's killing me and other studios who have spent tons of their own money to keep going. You think it's as easy as having good demos, but as Swurveman mentions, it's just not that simple, and those of us who do care are completely frustrated by it, and by baseless accusations that fly when you vent frustration.. You seem to have it good, and that's great for you, but you've lost touch with those in the trenches because of it. You're probably on autopilot from work you did years ago, but if you had to start up now, you'd be sunk like the rest of us struggling to keep going and compete with the thousands of bedroom studios out there. But by all means, keep up with the holier-than-thou attitude. It's charming. I'll take you at your word. But the way you come off is what made me think of that. And BTW, it wasn't just you - there are plenty of others who feel the same frustration. One thing to think of though, perception becomes reality in the eyes of clients - right or wrong. I didn't just walk into where I am today - I spent a couple decades paying my dues and slugging it out like everyone else. I'm no trust funder. Grew up poor and stayed poor most of my life due to LA living expenses, a family and a studio addiction problem. These days I haven't lost touch with the "trenches", I've made a conscious decision to LEAVE them. And I'm happier for it. I saw early on where we were headed and changed direction. You're dead right that if I had to start from scratch in 2017 that I would be in the same boat as you. I'd hope that I would be smart enough to know that I would not be comfortable competing with free, $10 an hour or even $35 an hour. I'd choose another path to fund my studio enterprises... Otherwise I would have found myself dropping into the same attitudes I fought against, and that I see others fighting against. I'm no better than you or anyone else. I just decided to take a different path. You can't fight against technology and/or "progress". It is what it is and it will continue. The only thing you can do is improve yourself. Realities that stare me down and slap me every day. I wish you the best of luck, tape or no tape. <thumbsup>
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