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Post by Quint on Jul 28, 2022 8:36:25 GMT -6
By my way of thinking, I've come around to the idea that the "relaxed" nature of the 310 may actually be a good thing, at least for me. The relaxed nature kind of threw me at first, after having listened to the Lyds beforehand and my BM5As before that.
Both Dyns seem to have just a smidge more high end and sound a little more hi-fi or exciting compared to the 310. I imagine that's just the voicing of the Dyns. However, I also suspect that some of that excitement may be coming from distortion, as I feel like the 310s are giving me less distortion at the same dB levels, especially in the bass region, but also in the high end.
The thing is that I have felt at times in the past like I was mixing a little dark, and I'm thinking that may have at least been in part due to the Dyns telling me there were more highs there than maybe there actually were. So I've come around to the idea of the 310s giving me a little less high end (which may in fact actually be the more truly flat presentation), which would result in me adding in more highs in the mix so that I actually get the highs where I want them, as far as translation goes.
As for the bass region, the Lyds do sound muddier and less clear/defined in the lows, and I imagine that's because of the port versus the sealed cab on the 310s. That's also one of the first things that immediately leapt out when I put up the 310s after the Lyds.
In this case, it was the opposite of my first impression regarding the highs. At first, I preferred the highs on the Lyds because it was what I was used to and also because I do prefer a little more highs if I'm just listening to something and not mixing. However, when it came to the low end, I pretty quickly preferred the lows on the 310s. I could just more clearly hear the kick and bass. My views on the superiority of the 310s in the bass region have not changed even after a couple of weeks.
The bass region is always an area I've had a little trouble with. I'm sure some of that has always been, and continues to be, down to the room, but I also do think that I just couldn't hear the bass region as clearly I would like with my old Dyns. The Lyds are better in the lows than the BM5As, but I think the 310s are even better than that.
As for mid clarity, it's probably a wash for me. They both sound slightly different, but both offer some nice mid range clarity due to both being three ways, which is a definite upgrade over my old Dyns. That said, and maybe it's just all psychological, given my preference for soft domes in general, I "like the idea" of a soft dome mid on the 310 versus the cone mid on the Lyd. I mean the ATCs have soft dome mids and those are supposed to be best there is. I also do feel like I slightly prefer the sound/clarity of the mids on the 310s, but I could live with either.
Of note, I will say that I maybe slightly and specifically prefer distorted electric guitars on the Lyds, but it really makes me wonder if this doesn't come down to the mid driver on the Lyds adding their own distortion that I just so happen to like on an already distorted instrument? Sure it might sound good on a pure listening level, but is it accurate? I know I've read here and there where people have talked about not liking to mix guitars on the 310s and I'm beginning to suspect that it just comes down to the 310s being less distorted in the mids, and people just "thinking" that the 310s are inferior when, in fact, it may be that their other monitors are actually lying to them and adding in a potentially pleasant to listen to but ultimately counterproductive amount of distortion.
ATCs are notoriously low distortion and people complain about them lacking bass, but that also likely comes down to perception of bass due to lack of distortion and the higher distortion bass that people are used to on their other monitors. That distortion DOES make you think you're hearing more of something than is actually there. I suspect I'm experiencing a similar situation when it comes to presentation of distorted guitars on the mid driver of the Lyds versus the 310s. I think this is also backed up by my preference for acoustic guitars on the 310s versus the Lyds. Acoustic guitars are typically something that you wouldn't want to be very distorted, so it's interesting to me how my preference flip flops when talking about acoustics versus electrics.
Which again brings me back to the whole soft dome thing. I've always liked them and this just confirms that further. They tend to be relatively less distorted, at least in my experience, and I assume that's why ATC (and Neumann) chose soft domes for their mids.
As for the waveguide thing, I still like how the sweet spot on both Dyns announces to you that you are entering or exiting it. It's just a reassurance thing for me. That said, the waveguide on the 310 does seem to provide a wider sweet spot, so maybe it doesn't matter as much if you don't have as clearly a defined sweet spot if you never end up easily getting out of the larger sweet spot in the first place.
In any case, I'm definitely glad I made the move up to three ways. Given that I've had my previously stated issues with low end clarity and mixing a little too dark at times, that's why I'm leaning more and more towards the Neumann KH310s. I'll make my mind up for sure this week.
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Post by Quint on Jul 27, 2022 20:34:55 GMT -6
If/when I ever upgrade from the current monitors I'm still making a decision about, I'm pretty sure ATC will be at the top of my list.
$6.5k for SCM25s? Man, I'd have to think about it. Is that in the UK, I take it?
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Post by Quint on Jul 27, 2022 19:18:43 GMT -6
Check out the AEA Sessions on YouTube. All AEA ribbon, obviously. There was one session quite a few years ago with an artist named Jo Serrapere. I'm pretty sure the song, Stardust & Bromide, was released, as is. Matter of fact, I think that whole album was an all ribbon affair. The other AEA Sessions are good too. It definitely can give you an idea of what ribbons can do. Also, there's this discussion: gearspace.com/board/high-end/228151-all-ribbon-album.html#
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Post by Quint on Jul 27, 2022 11:57:48 GMT -6
The first vocal mic I ever swooned over, was the AEA 44. Wes Dooley knows "they got me" if/when I have a great room, and can justify it financially. Chris You know, whenever I think about the amount of money one can spend on vintage LDCs or, in some cases, the reissues of these mics, it always reminds me that there are quite a few modern day classic ribbons (or something like the Coles 4038 or Beyer M160, which never stopped being made) out there that, in my opinion, are every bit as good as the previously mentioned LDCs and, in the digital age, better in a lot of cases. Also, they're all generally cheaper too. AEA, Stager, Royer, Coles, Beyer....
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Post by Quint on Jul 27, 2022 9:32:52 GMT -6
Unfortunately I've just been offered a pair of SCM50's for 9K.. I'd love to take them off their hands but I'm really not sure they would work in a 14.5 X 13 X 8.5 room, I'm not even sure I could physically get them to fit. Can they be mounted horizontally and placed on a desk? I'd probably end up with some nasty reflections no? Thoughts, opinions? 50s here ... They do mount horizontal, you just need to move the tweeter to the alt mounting hole. As you say there will be some reflection issues with 8.5 ft ceiling and desk but can work depending on room treatment. I have mine vertical against back wall, about 7ft apart, and built kind of pseudo soffits for them. The 50s are amazing and will work in a space that size but the placement and treatment must be dialed in. They're very picky. You also may need subs depending on your usage. Best to try in your space first. They also take room correction well. I'd be curious to see what those pseudo soffits look like. I'm kicking around doing something similar myself.
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Post by Quint on Jul 26, 2022 16:57:02 GMT -6
What about the CAPI FC526-xfmr? I've always read how clean (and fast) that thing is? How would that compare to the 651? The CAPI and Aphex are different topologies, I realize, but I've just sort of been looking around at ideas for a relatively clean (tone and action) comp that could be used for vocals during tracking, and the CAPI has been on that short list for a while. This thread got me wondering how the two might compare. Well, they now have transformers...so they were really clean when I had one. And I loved it. Yet another piece of gear that suffered for my lust... I got this because it was $140... Are the newer 526s with the transformer noticeably less clean than the originals? Or maybe you haven't had a chance to try the newer 526s? And, wait, you sold your 526? Yeah, you only ever had great things to say about it, which in no small part is what put it on my radar in the first place. The cheap price for the 651 is part of the appeal, but maybe I should just go with the 526, per origin plan? Thoughts?
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Post by Quint on Jul 26, 2022 7:15:36 GMT -6
What about the CAPI FC526-xfmr? I've always read how clean (and fast) that thing is? How would that compare to the 651?
The CAPI and Aphex are different topologies, I realize, but I've just sort of been looking around at ideas for a relatively clean (tone and action) comp that could be used for vocals during tracking, and the CAPI has been on that short list for a while. This thread got me wondering how the two might compare.
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Post by Quint on Jul 25, 2022 10:47:31 GMT -6
Are there some new features, or did Drew just release a new instructional video, and that's it?
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Post by Quint on Jul 24, 2022 22:00:55 GMT -6
So these JBL "mains" that I'm wanting to put in are 4410s. When I built out my studio, I left a space directly behind my console to eventually put in some soffit (flush) mounted monitors. The intent of this area was also to act as a rather large bass trap. So I may try to do a traditional flush mount, but it's more likely that I end up doing a "soft soffit", as it's called. Now I realize that 4410s may not be traditionally thought of as "mains" monitors, but they are certainly bigger than my near fields. Also, this is intended to be a bit of proof of concept for me for if/when I ever do get a full set of flush mounted mains like some ATCs or something. Additionally, I have some space constraint issues behind my console and flush mounting (sinking them into the bass traps) the JBLs will help in that regard, rather than trying to use them side by side with my nearfields. So I recognize that these JBLs may not end up sounding quite like I'd like them to, once flush mounted. Maybe they will though. In any case, that's still okay because it would still help provide me with some proof of concept for future endeavors and would also at least provide a nice set of relatively loud monitors that I can use during tracking, and then switch over to the nearfields for mixing. All of this, mind you, while also saving on space behind my console. As for mocking up, yes, that's the idea first. I'm mostly just doing my homework ahead of time for the motorized desk leg thing, to make sure I have some fleshed out ideas ready to go. I probably won't get around to actually trying that until after I get my JBLs flush mounted, which should finally be happening in the near future. Actually in the day a fair amount of 4410’s were mounted in traditional soffits and flush mounted. It was one of the favorites of guys who couldn’t afford the big boys, plus a hard flush mount gave them a nice bump in the lowend. I almost bought a pair a couple of years ago, could have probably made some good money flipping them today! That's in line with what I've heard about the 4410s. I bought them a few years ago for really cheap, always with the ultimate plan of flush mounting them. I'm just now finally getting around to it. But now that I'm also getting a nice set of nearfields, I don't want them to conflict with the JBLs, hence the proposal to use the desk legs.
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Post by Quint on Jul 24, 2022 20:56:14 GMT -6
Yeah, I know many consider that to be soffits, but all the old school guys I know call it flush, Symantecs. Even then I really would suggest playing with a simple mock up first, your probably going to find you want the motorized stands, but you also might discover the theoretical triangle isn’t ideal and your not blocking the Mains. worse yet everyone knows that one guy who did what your planing to do and finds the position of the mains just doesn’t work! So these JBL "mains" that I'm wanting to put in are 4410s. When I built out my studio, I left a space directly behind my console to eventually put in some soffit (flush) mounted monitors. The intent of this area was also to act as a rather large bass trap. So I may try to do a traditional flush mount, but it's more likely that I end up doing a "soft soffit", as it's called. Now I realize that 4410s may not be traditionally thought of as "mains" monitors, but they are certainly bigger than my near fields. Also, this is intended to be a bit of proof of concept for me for if/when I ever do get a full set of flush mounted mains like some ATCs or something. Additionally, I have some space constraint issues behind my console and flush mounting (sinking them into the bass traps) the JBLs will help in that regard, rather than trying to use them side by side with my nearfields. So I recognize that these JBLs may not end up sounding quite like I'd like them to, once flush mounted. Maybe they will though. In any case, that's still okay because it would still help provide me with some proof of concept for future endeavors and would also at least provide a nice set of relatively loud monitors that I can use during tracking, and then switch over to the nearfields for mixing. All of this, mind you, while also saving on space behind my console. As for mocking up, yes, that's the idea first. I'm mostly just doing my homework ahead of time for the motorized desk leg thing, to make sure I have some fleshed out ideas ready to go. I probably won't get around to actually trying that until after I get my JBLs flush mounted, which should finally be happening in the near future.
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Post by Quint on Jul 24, 2022 18:56:57 GMT -6
Well the whole point behind going this route would be because I specifically would want to be able to lower the near fields out of the way of some JBLs I've been meaning to soffit mount one of these days. If I wasn't ever going to soffit mount those JBLs, then I would agree, but it would be nice to be able to easily alternate between the near fields and soffit mains with a push of a button. And I'm not sure what you mean about calibration. The nice thing about using a motorized desk as a starting point is that both of the legs raise and lower together, meaning that both monitors would also raise and lower to the same heights together. If your mounting them in true soffits up high rather than flush at ear level you probably won’t have any problems, the 2 times I have heard a near field really affecting the sound of sofit mounted Westlake copies with the horn below the 2 15ins JBLs a simple hf boost on the crossover took care of the issue . I would check your angles in sketchup before I worried to much, even maybe make some quick stands out of 2x4 or PVC to see if I had an issue. Don’t get me wrong in theory you could have an issue but I would verify before throwing money at it. I'm not mounting them up high though. They will be down low at ear level, directly behind where my near fields sit.
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Post by Quint on Jul 23, 2022 20:28:25 GMT -6
One downside of these is that they would have to be adjusted independently, and it would be nice to just got one button and have everything go where you want it. Agreed, but think of the cost and calibration that would be involved! This where you cut a stick to your ideal height and count the money in your wallet! Well the whole point behind going this route would be because I specifically would want to be able to lower the near fields out of the way of some JBLs I've been meaning to soffit mount one of these days. If I wasn't ever going to soffit mount those JBLs, then I would agree, but it would be nice to be able to easily alternate between the near fields and soffit mains with a push of a button. And I'm not sure what you mean about calibration. The nice thing about using a motorized desk as a starting point is that both of the legs raise and lower together, meaning that both monitors would also raise and lower to the same heights together.
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Post by Quint on Jul 23, 2022 20:13:06 GMT -6
I was looking further at the Monoprice options posted by Winetree. I don't know if this one would be sturdy enough, depending on your monitor speaker, but you could place it in more locations. And the price for two wouldn't be so bad compared to other choices. www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=36079One downside of these is that they would have to be adjusted independently, and it would be nice to just got one button and have everything go where you want it.
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Post by Quint on Jul 23, 2022 19:27:12 GMT -6
The more I've listened to these Neumann's the more I think I might go with those and send the Lyds back. It's not that I don't like the Lyds, but the KH310s just have a solidity to them that I enjoy, and that's at least due in part to the sealed cab. I'm really liking the tightness in the low end of the KH310 versus the Lyd. And the mids on the KH310 are real nice too.
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Post by Quint on Jul 21, 2022 8:29:43 GMT -6
Yeah I think you guys convinced me this is not the piece for me. I get annoyed enough keeping modern outboard gear up and running! If anyone is interested, the excellent Anne Gauthier at La La Land is selling it for $2500. For the right person its definitely a great deal! Heres the studio: La La LandTape Machine: Ampex 440 8 TrackMan, I really like the vibe of that studio. If I'm ever in Louisville, I'll have to check it out. As for the 440, I always wanted either an AG440 8 track or a MM1200 16 track, but I think that ship has mostly sailed for me. Using tape just seems to be such an uphill battle these days and I've got too many other irons in the fire to deal with upkeep of a tape machine at this point, unfortunately.
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Post by Quint on Jul 19, 2022 19:34:16 GMT -6
I have yet to fall in love with any AMT “ folded Ribbon”. Understood, neither have I but the price / performance etc. is pretty hard to ignore. Worth a demo at least if I can get one..
The issue with the Core 59's is physical size, they're quite costly and bass dispersion can be somewhat problematic. Although it's a big driver for a 38Hz response, very clean distortion wise and the phantom centre / surround is fantastic. LMF / mids are eerie in terms of clarity even if they do stand out a bit..
They're not perfect but I guess no monitor truly is and besides the HEDD's there's nothing really else to try. I really liked the Neumman's / LYD's but they're not on the same level as the Core 59 which punch upwards..
If there's a cheaper and smaller monitor you can think of that'll give the Core's a run for their money let me know.
I thought you were done and had your "I'm good for the next 20 years" pair of monitors in the Core 59s?
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Post by Quint on Jul 19, 2022 17:13:43 GMT -6
I appreciate the suggestion but, at this point, I think I've narrowed it down to the two pair I have on hand and I'm going to make my decision based on that. I was talking about me, still got the LYD's in another room so I can do a comparison .. Oh, I know. I just meant that I wasn't going to add another monitor to the mix at this point. One of these two is staying and the other is going.
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Post by Quint on Jul 19, 2022 15:48:18 GMT -6
I looked at those HEDDs but never seriously considered them because I really like soft dome tweeters and pretty much kept my search to monitors with those. From what I've heard the AMT's are nothing like Adam's setup, they're quite "laid back" as opposed to pokey from the reviews. I'll see if I can get a demo, tried before but I was more focussed on the Neumann's at the time.. I appreciate the suggestion but, at this point, I think I've narrowed it down to the two pair I have on hand and I'm going to make my decision based on that.
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Post by Quint on Jul 19, 2022 15:17:35 GMT -6
So after having some days to just listen to the Neumann's, I'm coming around to their merits, so I'm glad I've stuck this out and didn't just put them back in the box. In the next few days, I'm going to put the Lyds back up and see how that goes, but, at the very least, I don't think the Lyds are going to be an obvious winner or maybe even a winner at all. I'm actually suspecting that I will like the Neumann's better, but we'll see. There are things that I'm really liking about them. Apologies if I'm muddying the waters here Quint but have you considered the HEDD type 20 MK2 as well? 32Hz, closed or ported and an in-built phase linearity system. Even after the Core's I'm a tad bit interested. I looked at those HEDDs but never seriously considered them because I really like soft dome tweeters and pretty much kept my search to monitors with those.
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Post by Quint on Jul 19, 2022 13:26:43 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Jul 19, 2022 9:46:30 GMT -6
I'm totally thinking of giving this a try. It seems pretty cool and it's way cheaper than the Space Lab Lift stands that I've seen for $1600.
I figure I could do this for $500, all in, and have a pair of stands that are not only sturdy but also will allow me to move the monitors out of the way of my larger monitors behind them (whenever I get them set up one of these days...).
I imagine I'd orient the monitors in the opposite direction from how he has them oriented, and I don't think I'd mess with the cable management thing he used. Still, this might be pretty cool.
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Post by Quint on Jul 18, 2022 17:53:10 GMT -6
So after having some days to just listen to the Neumann's, I'm coming around to their merits, so I'm glad I've stuck this out and didn't just put them back in the box. In the next few days, I'm going to put the Lyds back up and see how that goes, but, at the very least, I don't think the Lyds are going to be an obvious winner or maybe even a winner at all. I'm actually suspecting that I will like the Neumann's better, but we'll see. There are things that I'm really liking about them. Regardless of what you ultimately decide, I have admired your patience. The ones you keep will definitely be the right ones for you. Thanks man, and I agree.
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Mac Studio
Jul 18, 2022 17:33:37 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Quint on Jul 18, 2022 17:33:37 GMT -6
So how does one "stop" using Rosetta? I know that I was asked to download it when I first encountered something that needed to use it but, how do I tell if something is currently being run using Rosetta or if it still needs to be run using Rosetta?
If it's able to run natively, will a plugin or whatever just automatically do that once it's been updated to do so or is there something I have to do? Does Rosetta run globally for everything (all or nothing kind of deal) or does it only run for those plugins or apps that need it, and then individually quit running for those plugins/apps when they don't need it anymore?
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Post by Quint on Jul 18, 2022 17:06:45 GMT -6
So after having some days to just listen to the Neumann's, I'm coming around to their merits, so I'm glad I've stuck this out and didn't just put them back in the box.
In the next few days, I'm going to put the Lyds back up and see how that goes, but, at the very least, I don't think the Lyds are going to be an obvious winner or maybe even a winner at all. I'm actually suspecting that I will like the Neumann's better, but we'll see. There are things that I'm really liking about them.
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Post by Quint on Jul 18, 2022 16:27:37 GMT -6
IF, a fixed stand were at the same height as the cheapo stands I have right now, I'd be fine with fixed, as that height is just about right. I was just trying to future proof a bit so that I could always adjust it, as needed in the future. I get it, I have the stands I specifically ordered for use with the Otari Status in storage, can’t bring myself to sell them, waiting on my local welder to catch up for a custom pair for the Quested 3 ways. I looked at Sound anchor s again price wasn’t to bad till I got the shipping quote! Sweetwater quotes me $54 for shipping on FedEx Ground, so I don't think that's bad, considering the weight.
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